(8-2-0) Another 10 years old takes on the llama god | Undertale vs Pokémon

[Delusionaltx2]

That would require info2 manip so probably not

Not sure if thats true or not

To give an analogy on what I mean, would erasing mettatons files effect sans files? neither of those guys have info2 but they still have different information for being a different individual

I think just asking staff on this would probably be the right call

 

[StrymULTRA]

At the same time it gives the question if the True Form would directly take in account the matters directly if the avatar can't. Though it really doesn't really matter if Arceus gets affected from the SI regardless.

 

[Delusionaltx2]

At the same time it gives the question if the True Form would directly take in account the matters directly if the avatar can't.

I don't think it would tbh (at least not directly anyway)

like the whole reason it uses the avatar is so it can interact with the world, I don't think arceus is going to destroy the world or do anything significant because a really determined child broke his avatar

Though it really doesn't really matter if Arceus gets affected from the SI regardless.

that is true

 

[Delusionaltx2]

So far the best answer to Si i could find for arceus is using Ability Swap to switch their passive ability with frisk

 

[StrymULTRA]

So far the best answer to Si i could find for arceus is using Ability Swap to switch their passive ability with frisk

Is that even usable against a non-pokémon?

Even then Frisk's SI aura is directly from their DT, aka the Player who resides outside the game, Arceus' avatar is not reaching that.

 

[Delusionaltx2]

Is that even usable against a non-pokémon?

Even then Frisk's SI aura is directly from their DT, aka the Player who resides outside the game, Arceus' avatar is not reaching that.

Isn't the range for both low complex multi?

 

[StrymULTRA]

Isn't the range for both low complex multi?

Yeah but for Arceus it's restricted to its realm, aka just baseline. The Player is outside the Game World which is outside a Low 1-C realm on its own, meaning that to reach it you'd need to cross beyond it.

 

[God_of_perversion]

To give an analogy on what I mean, would erasing mettatons files effect sans files? neither of those guys have info2 but they still have different information for being a different individual

False equivalent,the real question would be "does erasing Mettaton's info2 affect Mettaton wearing with a apron"

 

[Delusionaltx2]

Yeah but for Arceus it's restricted to its realm, aka just baseline. The Player is outside the Game World which is outside a Low 1-C realm on its own, meaning that to reach it you'd need to cross beyond it.

ah nvm then

 

[Delusionaltx2]

False equivalent,the real question would be "does erasing Mettaton's info2 affect Mettaton wearing with a apron"

But those two are the same character though

arceus isn't really bound by an identity so making up another one to use as an avatar should be possible for them (if what you're saying is that both avatars would still have the same identity)

 

[StrymULTRA]

False equivalent,the real question would be "does erasing Mettaton's info2 affect Mettaton wearing with a apron"

If we wanna be fair, "Arceus" as in the llama and "The Original Spirit" are not the same thing, it's a bit like God and Jesus if you get what I mean.

 

[God_of_perversion]

I get it why people hate fights between hax loards

 

[Delusionaltx2]

Hang on a minute

inkay is capable of making the opponent lose the will to fight by emitting light from its body

Would this be the same as frisks SI?

 

[Qurbonboev]

If we wanna be fair, "Arceus" as in the llama and "The Original Spirit" are not the same thing, it's a bit like God and Jesus if you get what I mean.

Strym, stop, you are spreading heresy.

It's pretty funny to see this switchup:
So-called pacifists after enemy isn't convinced to give up:
"It's time for existence erasure then"

 

[StrymULTRA]

Hang on a minute

inkay is capable of making the opponent lose the will to fight by emitting light from its body

Would this be the same as frisks SI?

Well... Huh... Huuuuhzz.,.,.,.

"It's time for existence erasure then"

I mean OP doesn't hard restrict for Genocide or Pacifist version no? :#

 

[Delusionaltx2]

Lowkey if it's the same, then since status moves count as "anything that dosen't do direct damage" (meaning this should count as well I think) then arceus through gold as gold might have a legitimate counter there

 

[StrymULTRA]

Lowkey if it's the same, then since status moves count as "anything that dosen't do direct damage" I think arceus through gold as gold might have a legitimate counter there

Do I retract the vote then?

 

[Delusionaltx2]

Do I retract the vote then?

I think I wanna stay netural because of the info EE

that still seems very debatable

 

[StrymULTRA]

I think I wanna stay netural because of the info EE

that still seems very debatable

True Reset is also something the Player can use in case things go south as well, which would incap Arceus given that it's basically Info 2 based BFR in a way.

 

[Delusionaltx2]

Anyways ignoring the whole debate on "Does info EE work on a 1A avatar!"

I think pasifict frisk unlike asriel dosen't lead with EE shenanigans immediately right?

So if Arceus at least has a wincondition for killing frisk permanantly and manages to pull it off before frisk decides to EE them then I think that should work

This basically means we should be asking two things

1. Can arceus touch frisk?

2. Can arceus bypass reset

 

[Delusionaltx2]

True Reset is also something the Player can use in case things go south as well, which would incap Arceus given that it's basically Info 2 based BFR in a way.

yeah there is that as well (I think the saving grace for arceus is that info manip wouldn't be used immedietely coupled with the fact that arceus may have a passive answer for the SI)

 

[God_of_perversion]

yeah there is that as well (I think the saving grace for arceus is that info manip wouldn't be used immedietely coupled with the fact that arceus may have a passive answer for the SI)

I mean depends if the player is a crashout or not since he is the one actually doing the true reset

 

[StrymULTRA]

I think pasifict frisk unlike asriel dosen't lead with EE shenanigans immediately right?

On that yeah, PaciFrisk leads with SI first, rest really depends on what you want to happen.

1. Can arceus touch frisk?

Arceus' moves that are used as first things, like Hyper Beam, Judgement, Blizzard, Flamethrower and so on are absolutely not an option given that they're relatively simple compared to what Frisk deals with. Things that ignore evasion like Aura Sphere and that stuff does the trick however, given that these can't be dodged no matter what.

2. Can arceus bypass reset

Normal RESETs absolutely yes because it has multiple hax around it like Mind Hax, Concept 1 EE, and so on.

TRUE RESET is where the Player gets involved however.

 

[Delusionaltx2]

On that yeah, PaciFrisk leads with SI first, rest really depends on what you want to happen.

so basically frisk is gonna need with Si and probably dodge and heal stuff while using CHECK every once in a while

Arceus' moves that are used as first things, like Hyper Beam, Judgement, Blizzard, Flamethrower and so on are absolutely not an option given that they're relatively simple compared to what Frisk deals with.

This I knew coming into this

best case scenario you argue double team + judgement but even then I dunno

Things that ignore evasion like Aura Sphere and that stuff does the trick however, given that these can't be dodged no matter what.

Thats good to know

Normal RESETs absolutely yes because it has multiple hax around it like Mind Hax, Concept 1 EE, and so on.

I was also about to bring up the fact that arceus can negate time hax through scaling to dialga but yeah this as well

TRUE RESET is where the Player gets involved however.

Wouldn't killing frisk in a way to where the player can't bring them back lead to a win?

 

[Delusionaltx2]

I mean depends if the player is a crashout or not since he is the one actually doing the true reset

since this is true pacifist i'm willing to bet they more than likely aren't

 

[StrymULTRA]

Wouldn't killing frisk in a way to where the player can't bring them back lead to a win?

Tbf yeah, as Arceus is not fighting against the Player but against Frisk. But at the same time Arceus' regular attacks are absolutely not harming Frisk given that it's still baseline unlike the UT God tiers who are infinitely above that.

Also, regarding the SI point, Frisk has still managed to befriend Papyrus, Muffet, Toriel or Asriel, who were all immune to the Mercy Button until certain conditions are met. Given that Arceus lacks any real personal reason to hunt Frisk unlike UT monsters, then maybe talking it out would still work given it's not forcefully induced by supernatural abilities but is instead genuine dialogue here.

 

[StrymULTRA]

Anyways ignoring the whole debate on "Does info EE work on a 1A avatar!"

Actually I realized that Arceus mostly likely can't as the True Form would need to make up new game files to remake its Avatar, which yeah it has no feats for.

 

[Poketmonsrs]

Frisk FRA

 

[Delusionaltx2]

Tbf yeah, as Arceus is not fighting against the Player but against Frisk. But at the same time Arceus' regular attacks are absolutely not harming Frisk given that it's still baseline unlike the UT God tiers who are infinitely above that.

I think this prompts arceus to try more unorthodox methods like various forms of incap and then conceptual EE

This is still a human child to them so I don't think they'll go for CM1 EE immediately...

Also, regarding the SI point, Frisk has still managed to befriend Papyrus, Muffet, Toriel or Asriel, who were all immune to the Mercy Button until certain conditions are met. Given that Arceus lacks any real personal reason to hunt Frisk unlike UT monsters, then maybe talking it out would still work given it's not forcefully induced by supernatural abilities but is instead genuine dialogue here.

So in otherwords Arceus is basically on a longer but still noteworthy timer until they just give up

 

[Delusionaltx2]

eh, arceus still has winconditions at least but I don't see them going for CM EE before the player gets involved

they'll probably use resistance neg + mind hax to incap and then that forces the player to get involved and then its GGs from there

Put me back on frisk

 

[Bobsican]

TBH IDK why Good as Gold is being brought up when Magic Bounce removes all of the resistance concerns and just makes it backfire instead, so Frisk could lose on the spot ironically if leading with SI.

 

[Steve1775]

Wait doesn't Arceus outscale the Player due to their true form being 1-A

 

[Delusionaltx2]

TBH IDK why Good as Gold is being brought up when Magic Bounce removes all of the resistance concerns and just makes it backfire instead, so Frisk could lose on the spot ironically if leading with SI.

not really

frisk is controlled by the player who outranges arceus

 

[Delusionaltx2]

Wait doesn't Arceus outscale the Player due to their true form being 1-A

this is an arceus avatar

 

[Steve1775]

this is an arceus avatar

Yeah but, if an arceus avatar gets destroyed due to the player, can't the true form make another arceus or smth?

 

[Delusionaltx2]

Yeah but, if an arceus avatar gets destroyed due to the player, can't the true form make another arceus or smth?

depends on if the true form can make one pass the info EE (I still don't know if it can)

 

[StrymULTRA]

TBH IDK why Good as Gold is being brought up when Magic Bounce removes all of the resistance concerns and just makes it backfire instead, so Frisk could lose on the spot ironically if leading with SI.

Tbf Frisk's SI is Supernatural like Play Nice only if we take in the account how it instantly makes the opponent give up the second Frisk gives Mercy in the moment when the opponent is unsure to keep fighting. Frisk's own words instead are not supernatural, they're just normal talk.

 

[Bobsican]

They'd still be inflicted back in the same way other Pokemon moves reliant on saying stuff like Confide and Parting Shot do to Magic Bounce.

 

[Delusionaltx2]

They'd still be inflicted back in the same way other Pokemon moves reliant on saying stuff like Confide and Parting Shot do to Magic Bounce.

Frisk would

The player is a separate entity controlling them though

 

[StrymULTRA]

They'd still be inflicted back in the same way other Pokemon moves reliant on saying stuff like Confide and Parting Shot do to Magic Bounce.

Welp... idk how to answer that lol.

Regardless, if Arceus manages to get rid of Frisk through different hax (though I doubt it'd use CM 1 to perma-kill a child), the Player who is outside the Avatar's Range could use the True Reset to basically reset everything in the cosmology on a Type 2 Info level, which would be something beyond the Avatar's paygrade as it lacks the ability itself, and we treat Info 2 and CM 1/2 as uninteractable, meaning that Arceus' Concept Hax won't be a valid counter.

Frisk would

The player is a separate entity controlling them though

Yeah but Frisk's own feelings aren't controlled by Player directly, they've still been scared enough to slow down in the True Lab for example, and they can't control their own DT level as otherwise the entire Omega Flowey fight wouldn't exist.