BAN-KAI! Bleach General Discussion

[Damage3245]

But we are well within rights to disregard inconsistent visuals, when actual consistent reliable statements, population density of the seretei and the literal plot of bleach severely disregards them so why would we? I am not trying to offend you but I am just curious.

All of that information can quite simply be retconned if Kubo desired it. I believe the portrayal of the Seireitei in the final arc is consistent enough that Kubo has seemingly done that, but I know it won't get accepted on here. It's been discussed too many times before so there's no point arguing about it.

Also aside this complaint, is there any other issue regarding the calc?

I think the timeframe is unreliable for the calc. It is essentially calc stacking because it is skipping over a step of actually calculating Candice's real reaction time. It is substituting in a value derived from the speed of lightning and not actually finding the necessary timeframe for the feat.

 

[Specterxxxx]

All of that information can quite simply be retconned if Kubo desired it. I believe the portrayal of the Seireitei in the final arc is consistent enough that Kubo has seemingly done that, but I know it won't get accepted on here. It's been discussed too many times before so there's no point arguing about it.

Well he hasn't desired it yet and I don't think he will any time soon if anything more material even supports the irrelevance of the visuals. E.g Cyfow

The portrayal of that scene is even completely different in the anime even. The seretei is much smaller from Ichigo’s POV when he enters the seretei.

I think the timeframe is unreliable for the calc. It is essentially calc stacking because it is skipping over a step of actually calculating Candice's real reaction time.

Her reaction time is the 0.004773s where she can easily perceive lightning from the ichigo casual speed calc tho. Or is the already accepted calc calc staking?

It is substituting in a value derived from the speed of lightning and not actually finding the necessary timeframe for the feat.

The time frame of lightning touching the ground is her reaction time and I pointed out in the calc how the anime uses heavy cinematic time frame in that so I didn't see it being better than the already accepted speed calc ichigo had.

 

[Mommyleona]

Where is the calc staking?

it takes Candice's reaction time as a lightning timer for some reason, which is prob from Grimmjow's "lightning speed" statement, then chainscales her to him, or from her own lightning, which is already calc stacking

Based off what? She saw something crash but she could barely perceive him crossing him the radius, that is the point and the point of the casual speed.

because she literally had no trouble perceiving him? bruh

she has time to turn around and look at him falling, and we also see a close shot of her perceiving him fall
what are we doing here

i really gotta force myself to finish the thread

Her reaction time is the 0.004773s where she can easily perceive lightning from the ichigo casual speed calc tho.

yeah and its wrong too

 

[Robo432343]

yeah a lot of these sizes and calcs are incorrect

 

[Specterxxxx]

it takes Candice's reaction time as a lightning timer for some reason, which is prob from Grimmjow's "lightning speed" statement, then chainscales her to him, or from her own lightning, which is already calc stacking

Candice lightning speed perception comes from her alone and doesn't depend on anyone else and your link doesn't debunk me. This link talks about not using stated reaction speed to calculate how fast someone runs or vice versa without a calc, a calc was already made in ichigo's casual speed blog to get both candice perception time and Ichigo’s speed.

To put it this way, i didn't use candice reaction speed to calc Ichigo’s, I used her already calculated reaction time which is 0.0004773s to calc ichigo speed which results in a different calc so where is the calc staking when candice reaction time has already been calced? I probably still don't understand you maybe. But both candice reaction time and Ichigo’s speed has been calced to my knowledge.

because she literally had no trouble perceiving him? bruh

she has time to turn around and look at him falling,

She turns after ichigo hits the dome and couldn't properly follow him till he crashes into the tower, ichigo tranversed 700 KM and she had a hard time following him cross that distance despite the fact she can perceive cloud to ground lightning.

she wouldn't do this for her lightning.

and we also see a close shot of her perceiving him fall
what are we doing here

i really gotta force myself to finish the thread

I already said that she only sees him crash but she turns when he breaks him.

yeah and its wrong too

?? What makes it wrong?

 

[Specterxxxx]

yeah a lot of these sizes and calcs are incorrect

Elaborate

 

[Mommyleona]

Candice lightning speed perception comes from her alone

there is no statement of her having mhs+ reactions

your link doesn't debunk me.

it does

I used her already calculated reaction time which is 0.0004773s

which is WOW, calc stacking, you're using calced reaction speed to find ichigo's speed, i know crazy

which results in a different calc so where is the calc staking when candice reaction time has already been calced?

do you uh, understand what calc stacking is right? its using a calc in another calc

She turns after ichigo hits the dome and couldn't properly follow him till he crashes into the tower, ichigo tranversed 700 KM and she had a hard time following him cross that distance despite the fact she can perceive cloud to ground lightning.

where are u seeing it bro?
and no, to use her reactions as a timeframe she needs to be BLITZED
and yes she easily turned and saw him fall, where is her having any trouble??? or let alone being blitzed

despite the fact she can perceive cloud to ground lightning.

normal humans can perceive lightning to an extent btw
with that kinda logic we'd scale 90% of the wiki to ftl and above using "perceiving lightning" as a basis to scale reaction speed and then calc stack it to get the speed values via blitzes

I already said that she only sees him crash but she turns when he breaks him.

??

?? What makes it wrong?

see above about using her lightning as a basis for her reactions

no point in arguing here tbh

 

[KingTempest]

@Specterxxxx

If you used a calced timeframe for a completely different feat
Then it's calc stacking

 

[Infinite9Luck]

Since the last one had calc staking issues, I made a new one devoid of that and the new distance is now over 370 times higher than the current calc in the blog lol.

How incredibly ironic.

@Specterxxxx Why you simply don't take the distance, and divide it by the actual timeframe the anime uses to calculate the speed and the total distance? This way you don't need to use candice at all.

(it will make the distance way lower tho, but shouldn't be calc stacking)

 

[SilentBob34]

How is assuming Candice’s(who can literally turn into lightning to move around) reaction speed as lightning speed for a calc, calc stacking?

 

[Mommyleona]

How is assuming Candice’s(who can literally turn into lightning to move around) reaction speed as lightning speed for a calc, calc stacking?

When did candice turn into lightning

 

[SilentBob34]

When did candice turn into lightning

In the manga when Kenpachi attacks her from behind, she transforms into lightning to get behind him and counterattack. It’s on her VS and bleach wiki page

 

[Mommyleona]

In the manga when Kenpachi attacks her from behind, she transforms into lightning to get behind him and counterattack. It’s on her VS and bleach wiki page

1. No, she doesn't. She just dodges and hits him with lightning. (Skip to 0:55)

2. No, it isnt, on her profile it's just said she can boost her speed with lightning, tho even that isnt really supported by anything.

 

[Crobatman44]

1. No, she doesn't. She just dodges and hits him with lightning. (Skip to 0:55)

2. No, it isnt, on her profile it's just said she can boost her speed with lightning, tho even that isnt really supported by anything.

She does it in the corresponding chapter in the Manga,but as you showed it's removed/changed in the anime.

 

[SilentBob34]

1. No, she doesn't. She just dodges and hits him with lightning. (Skip to 0:55)

2. No, it isnt, on her profile it's just said she can boost her speed with lightning, tho even that isnt really supported by anything.

I said in the manga lol, I forgot they changed it to all 4 girls dodging Kenpachi instead in the anime. It was mainly just support for her reaction speed being lightning speed which is honestly a fair assumption since her entire scrift is based on lightning and manipulating it

 

[Mommyleona]

She does it in the corresponding chapter in the Manga,but as you showed it's removed/changed in the anime.

In the manga it's unclear, she could've just moved fast.
And anime is primary canon right? So if the same scene is different anime takes priority

 

[Mommyleona]

I said in the manga

Manga is unclear to me. It kinds just looks she moved out of the way fast.

being lightning speed which is honestly a fair assumption since her entire scrift is based on lightning and manipulating it

First of all. An assumption. You cant calc via assuming a character's reaction speed to be mhs+ lol.
Secondly, a very bad assumption at that. Controlling lightning does not mean you have lightning reaction speed.

Or anyone who can manipulate lightning now has MHS+ reaction speed?

 

[KingTempest]

How is assuming Candice’s(who can literally turn into lightning to move around) reaction speed as lightning speed for a calc, calc stacking?

cause the wiki doesn't like having fun

 

[Crobatman44]

In the manga it's unclear, she could've just moved fast.
And anime is primary canon right? So if the same scene is different anime takes priority

Yee,just wanted to clarify that specific detail about the scene,Anime(specifically for the TYBW arc) does take precedence over the manga.

 

[Mommyleona]

Yee,just wanted to clarify that specific detail about the scene,Anime(specifically for the TYBW arc) does take precedence over the manga.

Oh ofc obv meaning only tybw

 

[Crobatman44]

Bleach speed scaling should just be continuing to be equalized speed merchants,it's the funniest outcome.
If i had my way they would get downgraded to some super akward speed range barely any semi popular verse shares so every match would be forced to be equalized speed but like i know objectively that's wrong even if it's amusing to think about.

 

[Ghostimuscrime]

Since the last one had calc staking issues, I made a new one devoid of that and the new distance is now over 370 times higher than the current calc in the blog lol.

How incredibly ironic.

begging kubo on klub outside to drop a light speed statement would be 1000x better than whatever the heck this is lmao, how you think using reactions from speed (not allowed) from another scene for ichigo's crash (also not allowed) is a suited replacement is beyond me

Are you trying to use visuals, that Bleach consistently does a piss poor job of depicting as an argument? Also didn't we already agree to the size of the seretei already?

You only are allowed to pull the inconsistent-visuals-should-not-contradict-sizing-values card if you're using something not reliant on visuals like a statement, if a rock has sizing at 100m but the scene in where the characters perform feats against said rock is 5m, then the feat will index 5 meters

you literally cannot use the high end (at least exclusively) for the calculation no matter what, it would be a blatant lie

Also didn't we already agree to the size of the seretei already?

something being accepted at a specific time does not really mean it is permanently set in stone and everyone has to forever accept it as truth, if something has problems it will be discussed and re-evaluated as many times as need be, especially when it is outside an official CRT where users have no obligations to agree with what's on profiles

yeah a lot of these sizes and calcs are incorrect

every speed calc on the verse page that are rel+ and higher are deadass wrong lmao

 

[Ghostimuscrime]

Bleach speed scaling should just be continuing to be equalized speed merchants,it's the funniest outcome.
If i had my way they would get downgraded to some super akward speed range barely any semi popular verse shares so every match would be forced to be equalized speed but like i know objectively that's wrong even if it's amusing to think about.

I mean many verses are in the sub-rel ranges

I know bleach's evidence for light speed scaling isn't really strong but I can't see them go below Subrel at least

mainly due to Ichibei and maybe you could go for Rel via him blitzing Candice

 

[Mommyleona]

every speed calc on the verse page that are rel+ and higher are deadass wrong lmao

so im not the only one who sees it?

 

[PedjaTarzan]

mainly due to Ichibei and maybe you could go for Rel via him blitzing Candice

when did ichibei blitz Candice? is this some novel stuff?

 

[Ghostimuscrime]

so im not the only one who sees it?

The verse has an endless reserve of things that need to be fixed, AP, speed and hax wise, some of them makes you question how they got even added in (death hax gremmy, 90% AU reiokyu seretei distance, sokyoku being indexed as an instantaneous attack, some incredibly shady multipliers but I don't really have the energy or time to make changes so I usually just kept criticisms to myself

---

while majority of the scaling (excluding god tiers) of the verse in this wiki is incorrect it is still very formidable to me how arc managed to do so much of it by himself, in the naruto side of things we usually had revision plans split up between multiple people handling each section at the front wheels with the rest giving feedback where as in bleach like 99% of the current verse is just arc by himself lmao

when did ichibei blitz Candice? is this some novel stuff?

sorry i meant Ichibei getting subrel from the slap thingy and ichigo getting rel from traversing several meters before candice got a chance to turn around in a 180 degree

 

[Mommyleona]

The verse has an endless reserve of things that need to be fixed, AP, speed and hax wise, some of them makes you question how they got even added in (death hax gremmy, 90% AU reiokyu seretei distance, sokyoku being indexed as an instantaneous attack, some incredibly shady multipliers but I don't really have the energy or time to make changes so I usually just kept criticisms to myself

same

 

[AppleLord]

BLEACH will Continue after TYBW Anime Confirmed!

 

[HelloThere1089]

BLEACH will Continue after TYBW Anime Confirmed!

Be afraid.

 

[Sigurd_Snake_in_The_Eye]

Many of the speed calcs are “outdated” because

1. Some users say they’re working on them.
2. The anime released and people are waiting.
3. People are busy.
4. Speed doesn’t matter because of equalization.
5. Random standard changes.

Touching Yhwach imparts some of his soul to you. When you die it goes back to him with everything you obtained including powers as stated blatantly clear. Drinking his blood is for awakening schrifts.

Visionary was given to Gremmy by Yhwach.

“The Visionary—that Yhwach had bestowed upon him, had created his flesh body by “imagining” it.”

Excerpt From
Bleach: Can’t Fear Your Own World, Vol. 2
Tite Kubo, Ryohgo Narita
This material may be protected by copyright.

 

[SilentBob34]

Many of the speed calcs are “outdated” because

1. Some users say they’re working on them.
2. The anime released and people are waiting.
3. People are busy.
4. Speed doesn’t matter because of equalization.
5. Random standard changes.

Touching Yhwach imparts some of his soul to you. When you die it goes back to him with everything you obtained including powers as stated blatantly clear. Drinking his blood is for awakening schrifts.

Visionary was given to Gremmy by Yhwach.

Can you give your opinion on the whole speed thing that’s going on? Mommyleona and Ghostimuscrime seem to making it their entire reason for living to discredit any Bleach speed feat

 

[SilentBob34]

Many of the speed calcs are “outdated” because

1. Some users say they’re working on them.
2. The anime released and people are waiting.
3. People are busy.
4. Speed doesn’t matter because of equalization.
5. Random standard changes.

Touching Yhwach imparts some of his soul to you. When you die it goes back to him with everything you obtained including powers as stated blatantly clear. Drinking his blood is for awakening schrifts.

Visionary was given to Gremmy by Yhwach.

Can you give your opinion on the whole speed thing that’s going on? Mommyleona and Ghostimuscrime seem to making it their entire reason for living to discredit any Bleach speed feat

 

[Sigurd_Snake_in_The_Eye]

Can you give your opinion on the whole speed thing that’s going on? Mommyleona and Ghostimuscrime seem to making it their entire reason for living to discredit any Bleach speed feat

Bleach lacks obvious blatant “impressive” speed feats by the wiki’s standards. It’s always been rough in regards to speed.

 

[Ghostimuscrime]

Early bleach had really good speed stuff tho

Kubo was giving byakuya that itachi level narrative glaze

 

[KingTempest]

Early bleach had really good speed stuff tho

Kubo was giving byakuya that itachi level narrative glaze

they mean shit that isn't just blitzing ppl

 

[Ghostimuscrime]

Ik, im just sharing that it does have impressive speed stuff, ichigo making after images is one of the most cited speed showings

not ftl =/= unimpressive speed showing, scaling got so inflated people think if they're not ftl they're auto garbage which just isn't true

 

[KingTempest]

Ik, im just sharing that it does have impressive speed stuff, ichigo making after images is one of the most cited speed showings

not ftl =/= unimpressive speed showing, scaling got so inflated people think if they're not ftl they're auto garbage which just isn't true

braindead ppl think supersonic is slow

 

[Ghostimuscrime]

For sure, lower speed scale fights are the best for when it comes to awesome choreography and enjoyability, some of my favorite actions scenes (spiderman/transformers/megaman zero) happen at speeds that would be considered low in scaling communities but otherwise are cool as ****

the higher scaling a story gets the more you gotta tiptoe around things to avoid the increasing chances of anti feats, can't have gravity's speed relevant at ftl, can't have shit moving at all during mftl+/infinite speeds, characters suddenly being able to near infinite things in a second compared to normal people which is ass for storytelling

 

[FriendOfTheTeaParty]

isnt candice's lightning clear as day lightning and even exactly states the energy value of lightning

 

[Ghostimuscrime]

She does have the statement of being in the same ballpark as lightning in her post-nerf state yes