Genshin Impact Discussion Thread

[PedjaTarzan]

yeah i don't really have a problem with that, istaroth is literally called the mother of time and all time, and we also have scans that they transcend spacetime itself, which means they are already superior to 4dimensional spacetime, maybe not just l2c, i think they can get levels higher than l2c

no thats not what it means man, they are simply not bound by the laws THEY set into teyvat, literally that nothing else
how do you argue shade is time itself but also transcends time itself what are you on ?

 

[Insert_creative_name_here_12]

We will never reach a consensus with this Istaroth time nonsense.

 

[MSahla]

Gee now who’s the one who can’t read? I know for a fact that I previously told you I don’t believe the book is 100% wrong but that we can’t say it is 100% correct either.

Find me one other questionable thing from that book outside of that Nibelung one, go on.

 

[MSahla]

how do you argue shade is time itself but also transcends time itself what are you on ?

That does not mean she HAVE TO bound by it?
Like, how can you even use Time Manipulation against Time itself? How can be Time still bounds by its own linear while the fact that time flows through her?

 

[Insert_creative_name_here_12]

Find me one other questionable thing from that book outside of that Nibelung one, go on.

I literally told you that I don’t have to. The very fact the book has something wrong/questionable already puts it into question. My argument is literally just we shouldn’t take it as 100% correct and it is not 100% correct.

 

[Furina003]

no thats not what it means man, they are simply not bound by the laws THEY set into teyvat, literally that nothing else
how do you argue shade is time itself but also transcends time itself what are you on ?

They are not only time itself, but they are descriptions of time,
description = defining, this is related to the authority of reason/logic, because without the definition of time, time would never exist, that's why they transcend it.

 

[Furina003]

So how did the Nibelung make the Moons with power over time?

power being able to manipulate time ≠ time already existed before

 

[MSahla]

I literally told you that I don’t have to.

Yes you have to, you said one questionable then rest shouldn't take literally or 100% correct, and i assume you take the Istaroth one as the one you meant by "not 100% correct" since you are being denial and against over it. So tell me, what parts of it is wrong?

 

[PedjaTarzan]

That does not mean she HAVE TO bound by it?
Like, how can you even use Time Manipulation against Time itself? How can be Time still bounds by its own linear while the fact that time flows through her?

what are you even arguing brother, if someone is time itself they are bound by time, if someone transcends time they are not bound by it.
WHAT dottore says is that shades transcends the laws they set up in teyvat, they are basically not affected by their own laws bro.
Like what did you just say here ong

They are not only time itself, but they are descriptions of time,
description = defining, this is related to the authority of reason/logic, because without the definition of time, time would never exist, that's why they transcend it.

The leap in logic is lowkey insane when nicole herself confirmed that time existed in teyvat LOOOONG before shade have even set their laws in teyvat, its literally why nibelungs realm can record time from beggining of teyvat itself till the end of time

 

[MSahla]

what are you even arguing brother, if someone is time itself they are bound by time,

That does not necessarily how it works, my dear woomy. Being time ≠ being INSIDE time.
Time’s effects operate within the world, but its origin can stand outside the world. Being time as law is different from being a being inside time as experience. Since Istaroth transcends Teyvat’s boundaries, she governs time rather than being constrained by it.

Like.. Have you ever heard of Istaroth being bound by time? Where?

 

[Insert_creative_name_here_12]

power is not being able to manipulate time ≠ time already existed before

So how did he make them to manipulate something that did not exist?

Yes you have to, you said one questionable then rest shouldn't take literally or 100% correct, and i assume you take the Istaroth one as the one you meant by "not 100% correct" since you are being denial and against over it. So tell me, what parts of it is wrong?

Are you ok? Time literally existed before Istaroth was made. I don’t believe the devs would make a book like this be 100% wrong but without solid evidence lets not assume things are correct in a book with faulty info. It’s really that simple.

 

[Furina003]

The leap in logic is lowkey insane when nicole herself confirmed that time existed in teyvat LOOOONG before shade have even set their laws in teyvat, its literally why nibelungs realm can record time from beggining of teyvat itself till the end of time

The beginning of Teyvat ≠ the beginning of the world of the dragons.
Teyvat is the name for the world created by the heavenly principles.

The prison created by the Nibelungs only records the time up to the time the prison was created.

 

[Insert_creative_name_here_12]

@Furina003 so you think Istaroth only embodies time for post Nibelung era right?

 

[MSahla]

Are you ok?

Are you?

Time literally existed before Istaroth was made. I don’t believe the devs would make a book like this be 100% wrong but without solid evidence lets not assume things are correct in a book with faulty info. It’s really that simple.

The game have already confirmed that she's just merely an Avatar, and you here trying to deny what Zhongli said by saying "where is his sources", like brother.. he's literally the oldest archons who knows shit than the others. How can you even questioning Zhongli's claim when he talk about something like this?

The moment yoh questioning Zhongli's claim is the moment you're being denial and cannot accept the truth.

 

[Insert_creative_name_here_12]

Are you?

The game have already confirmed that she's just merely an Avatar, and you here trying to deny what Zhongli said by saying "where is his sources", like brother.. he's literally the oldest archons who knows shit than the others. How can you even questioning Zhongli's claim when he talk about something like this?

Zhongli being the oldest Archon does not mean he knows accurate things on stuff before his time unless he has a source or proven track record. So unless you can prove he got his info from someone/something credible it doesn’t mean much. Zhongli is not omniscient.

 

[Furina003]

So how did he make them to manipulate something that did not exist?

Did they manipulate time a long time ago? No
they only regulate the world's tides, elemental energies and so on.

Therefore, in their era, human boundaries did not even exist, life and death boundaries did not exist, there was no time

Legend has it that in the ancient past before even the concept of time was created, these creatures thrived with their progenitors and offspring in a land of verdant grass and colossal trees, traversing through slick soil like fishes diving through the wet.

 

[MSahla]

Zhongli being the oldest Archon does not mean he knows accurate things on stuff before his time unless he has a source or proven track record. So unless you can prove he got his info from someone/something credible it doesn’t mean much. Zhongli is not omniscient.

Why would you need to be Omniscient first to know a basic knowledge about the Four Shades? This is just bs, denial and ignorance.

Why would the Archons don't know anything about the Four Shades? Zhongli as the og archon literally have visited Celestia where the four shades and heavenly principles presumably resides, are we serious?

 

[PedjaTarzan]

That does not necessarily how it works, my dear woomy. Being time ≠ being INSIDE time.

?????? how does this make sense bro

Time’s effects operate within the world, but its origin can stand outside the world. Being time as law is different from being a being inside time as experience. Since Istaroth transcends Teyvat’s boundaries, she governs time rather than being constrained by it.

Shes not constrained by the law of time set in teyvat, shes constrained by the concept of time itself, which is literally what would you claim when you said that being beyond laws of teyvat=beyond time, something furina said along here. like how do you say, shes time itself and she transcends time in same sentence bro

yeah i don't really have a problem with that, istaroth is literally called the mother of time and all time, and we also have scans that they transcend spacetime itself, which means they are already superior to 4dimensional spacetime, maybe not just l2c, i think they can get levels higher than l2c

even worse is that this mf assumes they are beyond 4D space time simply bcs they are above laws they set lol

Like.. Have you ever heard of Istaroth being bound by time? Where?

by the fact nothing confirms shes beyond time XD?

 

[Furina003]

@Furina003 so you think Istaroth only embodies time for post Nibelung era right?

of course, because the world of the dragons and the world of the primordial creation are literally fundamentally separate, nicole explaine that.

 

[Insert_creative_name_here_12]

Did they manipulate time a long time ago? No
they only regulate the world's tides, elemental energies and so on.

Therefore, in their era, human boundaries did not even exist, life and death boundaries did not exist, there was no time

But we know they have power over time. Nibelung made them with the power to do that.

Why would you need to be Omniscient first to know a basic knowledge about the Four Shades? This is just bs, denial and ignorance.

Why would the Archons don't know anything about the Four Shades? Zhongli as the og archon literally have visited Celestia where the four shades and heavenly principles presumably resides, are we serious?

Because characters in Teyvat don’t know everything. This isn’t just anything about the 4 Shades. This is Istaroth’s age and nature as a paradoxical nature that literally birthed time in Teyvat. Tell me how would Zhongli know this?

 

[Insert_creative_name_here_12]

of course, because the world of the dragons and the world of the primordial creation are literally fundamentally separate, nicole explaine that.

This is sensible.

 

[PedjaTarzan]

of course, because the world of the dragons and the world of the primordial creation are literally fundamentally separate, nicole explaine that.

yeah i don't really have a problem with that, istaroth is literally called the mother of time and all time, and we also have scans that they transcend spacetime itself, which means they are already superior to 4dimensional spacetime, maybe not just l2c, i think they can get levels higher than l2c

actual insanity bro

 

[MSahla]

?????? how does this make sense bro

Unless you dont know how it works

Shes not constrained by the law of time set in teyvat, shes constrained by the concept of time itself, which is literally what would you claim when you said that being beyond laws of teyvat=beyond time, something furina said along here. like how do you say, shes time itself and she transcends time in same sentence bro

She's time itself as metaphysical, why would she bound to her own laws/concept of time?
She's superior to her own laws.

even worse is that this mf assumes they are beyond 4D space time simply bcs they are above laws they set lol

Time is has infinite snapshot, that thing is the entire space-time, since she's also created all things or all moments, and each of those moments are the

by the fact nothing confirms shes beyond time XD?

I can give you several evidences of her being outside of time, one of the most blantant is that she does not bound by the endless flow of time and causality.

 

[MSahla]

Because characters in Teyvat don’t know everything. This isn’t just anything about the 4 Shades. This is Istaroth’s age and nature as a paradoxical nature that literally birthed time in Teyvat. Tell me how would Zhongli know this?

Because he's an Archon? He knows shit about them? He already met them? Bruhh.
This is orthodox divine knowledge, not his personal speculation. You do not need to name a specific book when the speaker is literally part of the original divine regime.

Zhongli doesn’t need omniscience to be reliable, only relevant authority, which he clearly has as a founding Archon embedded in Heavenly Principles’ world order. His description of Istaroth as the "avatar of Time" reflects established divine tradition, not personal guesswork or headcanon and some shit, and the game presents it as factual rather than speculative. If it were uncertain, the narrative would frame it as rumor, which it doesn’t because it's just straight to the point.

 

[PedjaTarzan]

Unless you dont know how it works

She's time itself as metaphysical, why would she bound to her own laws/concept of time?
She's superior to her own laws.

time as metaphysical? where did you get that from?

Time is has infinite snapshot, that thing is the entire space-time, since she's also created all things or all moments, and each of those moments are the

time is explicitly finite in teyvat, even after nibelungs shit given nothing states time got changed to be infinite or anything similar to that this arguments make no sense

I can give you several evidences of her being outside of time, one of the most blantant is that she does not bound by the endless flow of time and causality.

she would still be outside time in teyvat, while being bound by time of the universe itself, or just concept of time generally, so just pick one thing
shes above time bcs shes above laws of teyvat which makes no sense
shes time itself but she would still just control all time across teyvat while being unnaffected by the changes from within teyvat.
just above time of teyvat which is basically nothingburger level transcendence when time in teyvat isnt even high 3-A nor low 2-C
you literally cannot choose what to misinterpet so bad
also i dont wanna nitpick, but why does dottore statement literally say she got her authority of time BESTOWED by PO

how is this being time itself?

 

[PedjaTarzan]

Man i miss when we debated if genshin is above 6-C or not now i need to debate guys thinking every statement of transcendence and being beyond something thats just on a planetary range is impressive and tier 2
I think the only plausible shit i saw was @OmniScalator going for low 1-C hypertimeline lol

 

[Furina003]

actual insanity bro

 

[MSahla]

time as metaphysical? where did you get that from?

??
She's literally the avatar of Time and have been explained her essence and whatness for being time itself, why are u so being denial rn instead of following the canonicity of the game?

time is explicitly finite in teyvat, even after nibelungs shit given nothing states time got changed to be infinite or anything similar to that this arguments make no sense

Yeah, so you're here basically saying Istaroth are just for this single planet and nothing else, which already been debunked in the game for a long time.

she would still be outside time in teyvat, while being bound by time of the universe itself, or just concept of time generally, so just pick one thing
shes above time bcs shes above laws of teyvat which makes no sense
shes time itself but she would still just control all time across teyvat while being unnaffected by the changes from within teyvat.
just above time of teyvat which is basically nothingburger level transcendence when time in teyvat isnt even high 3-A nor low 2-C
you literally cannot choose what to misinterpet so bad
also i dont wanna nitpick, but why does dottore statement literally say she got her authority of time BESTOWED by PO

sigh
Time as laws in Teyvat is metaphysical aspect, as literally concept of time itself.

And you got a fcking False Sky which stated to be Infinite Space with Infinite Stars which makes it High 3-A, and then when you add Istaroth it becomes Low 2-C.

how is this being time itself?

Heavenly Principles is Reason, Reason is the one who defined four of these. You wanna say that line is referring to HP gave the authority of the three moons to the four shades?

 

[PedjaTarzan]

??
She's literally the avatar of Time and have been explained her essence and whatness for being time itself, why are u so being denial rn instead of following the canonicity of the game?

because those statements arent literal, i explained this too like long ago. and the fact time authority she has was directly given from Primordial One completely contradicts this

sigh
Time as laws in Teyvat is metaphysical aspect, as literally concept of time itself.

Prove it with exact statement that its on a conceptual level, laws dont do shit and does not have to be conceptual, if you link me any statement on vsbw on law manip or cm page that says this then fine

And you got a fcking False Sky which stated to be Infinite Space with Infinite Stars which makes it High 3-A, and then when you add Istaroth it becomes Low 2-C.

time in teyvat is FINITE bro, thats not gonna be low 2-C man.

Heavenly Principles is Reason, Reason is the one who defined four of these. You wanna say that line is referring to HP gave the authority of the three moons to the four shades?

i mean, what authority did 3 moons had over teyvat, life time death space and time so...kinda? idk even if it wasnt three moon sisters nothing changes the fact she aint time itself bruh stop larping poetic books man.

 

[MSahla]

because those statements arent literal, i explained this too like long ago. and the fact time authority she has was directly given from Primordial One completely contradicts this

You didn't prove anything, Zhongli is blantantly said she's the avatar of Time, and i'm afraid you cannot debunk that other than being denial like it's flowery language, hyperbole or some shit like that.

And she was given the authority of time by HP also does not contradict anything, as Istaroth have already existed even before she was created, because she's time itself.

Prove it with exact statement that its on a conceptual level, laws dont do shit and does not have to be conceptual, if you link me any statement on vsbw on law manip or cm page that says this then fine

@Arkenis have made it clear in the previous page, what do you even think is "Life, Death , Space and Time"? Are they not abstract concepts to you? Those four are universal phenomena and concepts.

time in teyvat is FINITE bro, thats not gonna be low 2-C man.

sigh
That only talking about in the Moons Reflection.

i mean, what authority did 3 moons had over teyvat, life time death space and time so...kinda? idk even if it wasnt three moon sisters nothing changes the fact she aint time itself bruh stop larping poetic books man.

So are we forgetting to the fact that the Shades and the Moons are co-existed before? And why is the Shades not gone now after Columbina Literally got the Full Authority of the Three Moons? Lol.

Claiming Shades' authorities coming from the Three Moons is straight up cope and just argument from belief which never been stated/proven in the game.

 

[Furina003]

time in teyvat is FINITE bro, thats not gonna be low 2-C man.

bro use nibelung prison time to make teyvat time limited.
finite there does not refer to a snapshot, but to the beginning of time.

So they assume that Columbina will be present at the beginning of the prison being created, and that is true, because the beginning of the prison time = the end of Columbina's journey, that's why she can meet the 3 moon goddesses, because the end of Columbina's journey is the beginning of the prison being created because time moves backwards, so it is considered limited, not talking about spacetime snapshots.

 

[PedjaTarzan]

You didn't prove anything, Zhongli is blantantly said she's the avatar of Time, and i'm afraid you cannot debunk that other than being denial like it's flowery language, hyperbole or some shit like that.

"Avatar of time", gets power bestowen from PO

And she was given the authority of time by HP also does not contradict anything, as Istaroth have already existed even before she was created, because she's time itself.

you are just lying at this point

@Arkenis have made it clear in the previous page, what do you even think is "Life, Death , Space and Time"? Are they not abstract concepts to you? Those four are universal phenomena and concepts.

those are laws set by three moons sister before PO came, and the laws PO set up after vanquishing dragons.

sigh
That only talking about in the Moons Reflection.

it literally records time of teyvat, the fact its finite already makes time in teyvat finite either way, it doesnt matter

So are we forgetting to the fact that the Shades and the Moons are co-existed before? And why is the Shades not gone now after Columbina Literally got the Full Authority of the Three Moons? Lol.

Claiming Shades' authorities coming from the Three Moons is straight up cope and just argument from belief which never been stated/proven in the game.

?

 

[PedjaTarzan]

bro use nibelung prison time to make teyvat time limited.
finite there does not refer to a snapshot, but to the beginning of time.

i dont even talk about snapshots, you would still get high 3-A even if u ****** up time for 1 second

So they assume that Columbina will be present at the beginning of the prison being created, and that is true, because the beginning of the prison time = the end of Columbina's journey, that's why she can meet the 3 moon goddesses, because the end of Columbina's journey is the beginning of the prison being created because time moves backwards, so it is considered limited, not talking about spacetime snapshots.

spacetime snapshot doesnt even matter here what cope is this man, time itself is finite either way you cant prove otherwise

 

[Furina003]

i dont even talk about snapshots, you would still get high 3-A even if u ****** up time for 1 second

spacetime snapshot doesnt even matter here what cope is this man, time itself is finite either way you cant prove otherwise

What you're saying here doesn't even affect L2C at all, because L2C is about spacetime snapshots, bro.

The limited statement there only refers to Columbina's journey back in time, not about snapshots of space.

and it speaks specifically to the time in the moon prison of the nibelung creation, not teyvat time

 

[MSahla]

"Avatar of time", gets power bestowen from PO

Means nothing, and that word from dottore is also kinda flowery which can be many things.
And you just simply forgetting HP being Reason itself.

you are just lying at this point

Created ontologically or merely as an Avatar, lmao.

those are laws set by three moons sister before PO came, and the laws PO set up after vanquishing dragons.

No, Laws established by Nibelung does not have boundaries in it. And you got Nicole's statement that HP changed the world down into its very foundation, and they already stated that HP broke the laws of the old world.

it literally records time of teyvat, the fact its finite already makes time in teyvat finite either way, it doesnt matter

As i said, it doesn't mean finite as finite snapshots
Bro is completely don't know about anything they referring to.

?

???
Can you read that again?

 

[PedjaTarzan]

What you're saying here doesn't even affect L2C at all, because L2C is about spacetime snapshots, bro.

if temporal dimension is finite then you can never get low 2-C like that, it has to be infinite and the thing is its only low 2-C bcs of "uncountably infinite" snapshots, each moment of time has infinite ones instead which is why its high 3-A

The limited statement there only refers to Columbina's journey back in time, not about snapshots of space.

and it speaks specifically to the time in the moon prison of the nibelung creation, not teyvat time

but moon prison literally records teyvats time, and nicole states its finite because it records from the beginning of time of TEYVAT, if its said from the moment nibelung made it this would be 0 issues

 

[MSahla]

@PedjaTarzan Again brother, the statement does not referring to absolute concept of time/temporal dimension, it only talking about Teyvat's timeline. Didn't i already elaborate it to you before?

 

[PedjaTarzan]

Means nothing, and that word from dottore is also kinda flowery which can be many things.
And you just simply forgetting HP being Reason itself.

Dottore LITERALLY is taking moon marrows to transcends boundaries and laws of teyvat HOW is he flowery man what the **** are you on about

Created ontologically or merely as an Avatar, lmao.

what avatars bro? it literally stated it CREATED them you literally cannot prove they existed before PO. all those statements gets contradicted by the mere fact they were created by primordial one
theres not even a proof they have avatars "avatar of time" doesnt even mean its literal avatar it can literally mean this
"an icon or figure representing a particular person in a video game, internet forum, etc."

As i said, it doesn't mean finite as finite snapshots
Bro is completely don't know about anything they referring to.

i know, you dont you still push low 2-C despite not knowing finite time having infinite snapshots is NOT qualifying for low 2-C, you can make QnA thread right now

???
Can you read that again?

my man you said they co existed but you literally know PO made them when invading teyvat WHEN he created the shades.
honestly continuing this will go in circles, im just gonna adress this if u make a crt regarding all this instead

 

[AsterReal]

Well, while you guys finish arguing, I want to present my proposal for the additional Low 2-C justifications:

Abyssal Nibelung:

Universe Level+ (Upon his return to Teyvat, he did so wielding the power of the abyss, after assuming that the Three Moon Goddesses were no longer loyal to him. He imprisoned them within Moon's Reflection, a realm of his own creation that has a void that extends to infinity, and the realm itself is described as a prison of space-time that is beyond the reach of time. Although he was defeated and destroyed, Nibelung was able to severely wound the Heavenly Principles to the point where they were so damaged that they were no longer able to exercise their authority to suppress the order of the world).

Heavenly Principles:

Universe Level+ (Although severely wounded at the end of the Funeral Flame War, the Heavenly Principles were able to defeat and destroy the Dragon King Nibelung, the former ruler of Teyvat who wielded the power of the abyss. In this state of power, Nibelung was able to create the Moon's Reflection, a realm with a void that extends to infinity and is a prison of space-time beyond the reach of time).

 

[PedjaTarzan]

What you're saying here doesn't even affect L2C at all, because L2C is about spacetime snapshots, bro.

The limited statement there only refers to Columbina's journey back in time, not about snapshots of space.

and it speaks specifically to the time in the moon prison of the nibelung creation, not teyvat time

it literally says that teyvat time has its beginning, time itself in fact.