Entirety of Pokemon Civilization vs Entirety of Pokemon Ecosystem (All Humans and All Tame Pokemon vs All Wild Pokemon) (1-2-1)

[User_A_98732165489]

Some joked that, if Pokemon was one tad more realistic, Pokemon Fights would be treated as fights between lethal super-powered critters and going through more Pokemon-infested areas would require large groups of armed Humans with strong Pokemon. Some also wondered why all Pokemon in Paradox Future are robotic - joking that some sort of global catastrophe or world war happened there, which resulted in extinction or extermination of most organic life on planet.

This fight takes this to absurd degree, with Human and Pokemon civilizations outright going to planetary-scale war on one-another.

• Fight happens on Pokemon World's Earth.
• "Team Human" has all Humans from Pokemon World, all their machinery/gear/stuff/etc, and all Tame Pokemon. "Team Pokemon" has all Wild Pokemon. (edge cases could be discussed or altered if needed)
• Those Legendary and Mythical Pokemon which are human-aligned, commanded by humans or controlled by humans are in Team Human (e.g. Cyrus owning Palkia and Dialga; Giovanni owning Mewtwo; etc). All Legendary and Mythical Pokemon are also in Team Pokemon; Tame and Wild legendaries end up fighting each-other. Tier 1 Legendaries are restricted. (Each Legendary can be discussed on case-by-case basis if needed) (could be altered if needed)
• Switching parties works like in canon. E.G. if Wild Pokemon is captured by Pokeball, he becomes Tame Pokemon as usual; etc.
• Both parties have as much knowledge on eachother as they do in canon.
• Both parties have 1 whole year of preparation time, "on paper". In practice, it's unlimited because Dialga and Celebi can loop time.
• Speed is not equalized
• Otherwise SBA

Team Human: (1) (Mickey1940)
Team Pokemon: (2) (Nonynho, AyOgUyS)
Inconclusive: (1) (User_A_98732165489)

 

[User_A_98732165489]

bump x1

 

[User_A_98732165489]

First question is, "who is more numerous?"; i don't know the exact numbers for Human population of Pokemon World. Team GO Rocket has 15 million trainers, and Galaxy Team has a few hundreds - but we're talking entire planet's population there. Saying that human population is same as on IRL Earth is plausible but not fully correct.

For population of Tame Pokemon and Wild Pokemon, it gets even more vague. There may be some unconfirmed likely-non-canon information about how large individual groups/mobs/packs/colonies of Wild Pokemon are (e.g. solitary, small family, dozen-large group, multiple dozens, hundreds, etc) - but we don't know total amount of these groups on planet. We also don't know how many Tame Pokemon are there, since not all Humans have Pokemon, not all Humans have full team of 6 Pokemon, and many Tame Pokemon collect dust in PCs.

And since both parties have 1 full year of preparation time, they breed like there's no tomorrow. And Pokemon can breed and evolve rather rapidly. So there's even more of them around and many are fully-evolved. All Pokemon Trainers would have their teams at absolute strongest point (e.g. high-end/postgame). All wonder-weapons (e.g. High 6-A Ultimate Weapon, Low 6-B Mech, etc) would be set up and ready by that point.

The only remotely combat-worthy Wild Pokemon in such situation are those in Tier 6 - since non-fully-evolved pokemon from lower Tiers would be practically useless. Even then, the larger issue is that "conventional" Wild Pokemon cap at 6-C, while Pokemon World's civilization goes a lot higher than that.

6-B Trainers are very numerous; Team GO Rocket alone has over 15 million Trainers, with "at least Low 6-B" Grunts and 5-B Leaders - and said Team Rocket Go army encountered another army of Trainers, which fought it to standstill. So over 30 million 6-Bs alone, and that's before mass mobilization! And that's before going to those Trainers, whose Pokemon can fight Legendaries - ending up in Tier 5, Tier 3 or Tier 2; there's also quite a lot of such Trainers. Don't forget that some Legendaries are Tame or otherwise in Human control, and also don't forget about wonder-weapons.

There's also issue of coordination, intellect and cohesion - namely, that Humans and Tame Pokemon are a lot smarter. Wild Pokemon have no long-range communications and no command structure, and so each group or horde would act on it's own without knowing what others do. Human Trainers with 1 year of preparation time would form something akin to modern or futuristic army - with unified battleplan and communications between divisions. Many Humans are Gifted, and some are Extraordinary Geniuses, and Tame Pokemon are typically smarter than Wild Pokemon due to experience; Most Wild Pokemon are Below Average in personal-combat-unrelated subjects, and Above Average to Gifted in combat - so their large-scale strategic skill would be very bad - and smarter Pokemon (e.g. Alakazam) could only command their small group and not entire Wild Pokemon army, so most Wild Pokemon groups/hordes would behave as if at Below Average level of cohesion and strategic planning.

...So, if Wild Pokemon don't call Legendaries for help, they're Stomped. If they do (assumptions were corrected), fight would be more fair. Although, "Team Human" would end up having more 6-B-and-higher stuff than "Team Pokemon" has, so i vote for "Team Human".

 

[User_A_98732165489]

bump x2

 

[User_A_98732165489]

bump x3

 

[User_A_98732165489]

bump x4

 

[User_A_98732165489]

bump x5

 

[Nonynho]

If we're speaking with legendaries included (mythicals too since Celebi's also capable of time manip), we have a problem with time lol
Dialga and Celebi are present in both sides so the prep time can be infinite because they can just loop it?

Also, if Palkia's in the game (also for both sides) he can just send every opposing pokémon to space/bfr to anywhere...

So basically only Legendaries, some mythicals and few of the thoughest cookies around...

and Mewtwo was never captured in a canon we use here, so he's only for the wilds. And both Groudon and Corrupted Groudon. And Kyogre. And Rayquaza. And, to top it all off: Necrozma (who will become an even scarier mf because he can (and will) fuse with Solgaleo, Lunala and Nebby, not mattering if Nebby's another Solgaleo or Lunala.)

Also, the captured pokémon and their attacks and strategies will be dependant on the trainers, who all get banned by palkia to idk space? So the wild pokémon will have an advantage there

Therefore, i'd cast my vote in the wild pokémon

 

[User_A_98732165489]

...So, if Wild Pokemon don't call Legendaries for help, they're Stomped. If they do (assumptions were corrected), fight would be more fair.

If we're speaking with legendaries included (mythicals too since Celebi's also capable of time manip), we have a problem with time lol
Dialga and Celebi are present in both sides so the prep time can be infinite because they can just loop it?

Also, if Palkia's in the game (also for both sides) he can just send every opposing pokémon to space/bfr to anywhere...

So basically only Legendaries, some mythicals and few of the thoughest cookies around...

Well, we have to include Legendaries - since without them, Wild Pokemon have 6-Cs at most while Human Trainers have 6-Bs em masse, with "few of the thoughest cookies around" going higher. That is, if "Team Pokemon" only had "conventional wild pokemon" so to speak, it would be a Stomp.

Also, which Legendaries are canonically captured/tamed in canon?

Now to counting things higher than 6-B:

• Red (Pokémon) - 2-B, likely 2-A, higher with Mega Pokémon
• Blue (Pokémon) - 2-B, likely 2-A, higher with Mega Pokémon
• Giovanni (Pokémon) - 2-B, likely 2-A, higher with Mewtwo Mega Evolutions
• Giovanni (Pokémon GO) - At least 5-B, likely higher
• Elio (Pokémon) - 2-B, likely 2-A
• Cyrus - 2-B, likely 2-A
• Chase (Pokemon) - At least 3-C, likely High 3-A
• Archie (Pokémon) - 2-B, likely 2-A
• Maxie (Pokémon) - 2-B, likely 2-A
• Steven Stone - 5-B
• Brandon (Pokémon) - High 6-A
• Zinnia (Pokémon) - 5-B
• Anabel (Pokémon) - High 6-A, possibly higher
• Barry (Pokémon) - 2-B, likely 2-A
• Maylene - At least 2-B, likely 2-A
• Cynthia (Pokémon) - 2-B, likely 2-A
• Cynthia (Pokémon Anime) - 2-B, likely 2-A, higher with Mega Garchomp & Dynamax
• Palmer - 2-B, likely 2-A
• Dahlia (Pokémon) - 2-B, likely 2-A
• Cheren (Pokémon) - At least 3-C, possibly High 3-A
• Iris (Pokémon) - At least 3-C, possibly High 3-A
• Alder - At least 3-C, possibly High 3-A
• Ghetsis - 2-B, likely 2-A
• N (Pokémon) - At least 3-C, possibly High 3-A
• Lysandre - 2-B, likely 2-A
• AZ (Pokémon) - At least 3-C, possibly High 3-A
• Diantha - At least 3-C, possibly High 3-A, higher with Mega Gardevoir
• The Player (Pokémon GO) - At least 5-B, likely higher, far higher with Victini's Supernatural Luck and via Mega Evolution
• Candela (Pokémon) - 5-B
• Blanche (Pokémon) - 5-B
• Spark (Pokémon) - 5-B
• Gladion - At least 3-C, likely High 3-A, higher with Z-Move
• Plumeria - At least 3-C, possibly High 3-A, higher with Poisonium Z
• Guzma - At least 3-C, possibly High 3-A
• Faba - At least 3-C, possibly High 3-A
• Lusamine - At least 3-C, likely High 3-A
• Ryuki - At least 3-C, possibly High 3-A
• Nessa (Pokémon) - 2-B, likely 2-A, higher with Gigantamax Drednaw
• Marnie (Pokémon) - 2-B, likely 2-A, higher with Gigantamax Grimmsnarl
• Bede (Pokémon) - 2-B, likely 2-A, higher with Gigantamax Hatterene
• Hop (Pokémon) - 2-B, likely 2-A, higher with a Gigantamax Pokémon
• Bea (Pokémon) - 2-B, likely 2-A, higher with Gigantamax Machamp
• Allister - 2-B, likely 2-A, higher with Gigantamax Gengar
• Piers (Pokémon) - 2-B, likely 2-A
• Raihan - 2-B, likely 2-A, higher with Gigantamax Duraludon
• Leon (Pokémon) - 2-B, likely 2-A, higher with Gigantamax
• Peony - 2-B, likely 2-A, higher with Gigantamax Copperajah
• Mustard (Pokémon) - 2-B, likely 2-A, higher with Gigantamax Urshifu
• Chairman Rose - 2-B, likely 2-A, higher with Gigantamax Copperajah
• Ash Ketchum - 2-B, likely 2-A, higher with Mega Evolution, Z-Moves, or Dynamax
• Team Rocket Trio - likely 3-C to High 3-A with Bewear Mech
• Red (Pokémon Origins) - 5-B
• Red (Pokémon Adventures) - 5-B
• MechaMew2 - 5-B
• Mirage Mewtwo - At least 5-B, likely higher
• Power Stones (Pokémon) - Varies from 8-A to Low 6-B each
• Ultimate Weapon (Pokémon) - High 6-A
• Team GO Rocket Leaders - 5-B
• Galaxy Team Path of Tenacity - 2-B, likely 2-A
• Pikachu (Anime) - At least 6-C, likely higher, higher with Z-Moves or when absorbing electricity, at least 3-C, likely High 3-A with 10,000,000 Volt Thunderbolt and Gigavolt Havoc
• Bewear (Anime) - At least 3-C, likely High 3-A
• Lucario (Mystery of Mew) - High 6-A
• ...The list keeps goin on and on. Maybe i missed something.

Uncertain ones:

• Red (Pokémon Let's Go) - 6-C, possibly far higher, higher with Mega Venusaur
• Silver (Pokémon) - At least 6-B, likely higher
• Greevil - At least 6-B, likely higher
• Clemont - At least 6-C, higher via the Trainer-Grow-Stronger Machine
• Blake (Pokémon Adventures) - At least 7-A to at least Low 6-B and 5-B
• Corrupted Groudon (Movie 06) - At least High 7-A, likely High 6-A, possibly higher
• Thu-Fi-Zer - At least High 6-A, likely higher
• Pikachu (PokéPark) - At least 3-C, possibly High 3-A (whose he is?)
• Rockruff (Pokémon Horizon) - At least 3-C, likely High 3-A, higher via Breakneck Blitz (whose he is?)

IDK where Pokemon Mystery Dungeon characters belong - as they're not Wild Pokemon, yet are not Humans and don't belong to Humans.

Everything below 2-B gets practically useless though, since any finitely powerful characters (3-A and less), no matter how numerous, can't do anything to infinitely powerful characters (High 3-A and more). Even some Legendaries (Wild or Tame) get pushed aside, as many of then are 6-B or 6-A.

Even if i did miss something - list is too big - Humans have way more High-3-A-and-higher characters, plus quite a lot of Legendaries are on human side. Basically, "Team Pokemon" Legendaries have to fight themselves and large number of very strong Trainers; that's way too much for them.

If Mewtwo is on Wild Pokemon's side, he can make and give them radios - cue them being able to coordinate their actions on strategic scale. Cue intelligence and cohesion advantages of Humans being negated.

One more consideration: both teams have super-scientists with cloning projects (Mewtwo for "Team Pokemon" - while "Team Human" scientists are too many to count). They both have Legendaries on their teams. Since Dialga and Celebi are present in both sides, preparation time is infinite (arbitrarily large). As such, both parties have time to clone as many Legendaries for themselves as they have available resources for it.

 

[User_A_98732165489]

Therefore, i'd cast my vote in the wild pokémon

Counted earlier, forgot to say.

 

[User_A_98732165489]

bump x6

 

[Nonynho]

Also, which Legendaries are canonically captured/tamed in canon?

As i've said, Palkia'll be BFRing everybody so no humans should be back, severely diminishing the potential of the tamed pokémons because they're linked to their trainers to do **** (not 100%, but quite a bit)

If Mewtwo is on Wild Pokemon's side, he can make and give them radios - cue them being able to coordinate their actions on strategic scale. Cue intelligence and cohesion advantages of Humans being negated.

While he's coordenating, Necrozma (who doesn't have a version in the humans' side) got Nebby and wild Sogaleo+Lunala (at least).... So they're in a large danger

One more consideration: both teams have super-scientists with cloning projects (Mewtwo for "Team Pokemon" - while "Team Human" scientists are too many to count). They both have Legendaries on their teams. Since Dialga and Celebi are present in both sides, preparation time is infinite (arbitrarily large). As such, both parties have time to clone as many Legendaries for themselves as they have available resources for it.

I don't think it'd be an IC thing to do, since the cost to do a mewtwo clone was very high and Mew did not like it lmfao
and their robot versions are weak as hell, they'll get BFRd with all the humans in the beginning by Palkia lol

 

[User_A_98732165489]

Also, which Legendaries are canonically captured/tamed in canon?

As i've said, Palkia'll be BFRing everybody so no humans should be back, severely diminishing the potential of the tamed pokémons because they're linked to their trainers to do **** (not 100%, but quite a bit)

and their robot versions are weak as hell, they'll get BFRd with all the humans in the beginning by Palkia lol

Palkia is on both sides. So if Palkia BFRs someone, the opponent's Palkia will un-BFR them back. But if one Palkia does Faint and other doesn't yet, the remaining Palkia will definitely mop up all lesser enemies of his team.

Trainers are weak in this fight - as they are 9-B+ to 9-A, with Peak Human Speed and Relativistic+ to FTL reactions, though some have Superhuman speed with Massively FTL+ to Infinite reactions. In best-case scenario - if you believe my Human-to-Pokemon-Powerscaling blog - they would be 9-C with overall FTL speed. That is, Trainers themselves are weaker than Magikarp - or if you believe my CRT, they're comparable to fully-evolved-Pokemon.

Whether or not trainers are Tier 9 or Tier 6 themselves, it doesn't matter since all non-inconsequential units on the field range from High 3-A to 2-A with Massively FTL+ to Infinite speed; any finitely powerful character can be OHKO'd easily. Trainer Pokemon are partially reliant on Trainer commands - they can fight by themselves, but do so not much more intelligently than Wild Pokemon do; that and Tame Pokemon just love their Trainers and don't want them to be hurt. In order to save their Trainers, Tame Pokemon would have to either use some sort of protective ability, or serve as body shields; and in order to mitigate speed issue, Tame Pokemon would have to serve as mounts for their Trainers. Trainer-carrying Pokemon can function and fight normally - with consideration that they become priority target due to Trainers being priority targets - and therefore a lot of attacks coming their way.

Since this is not League-sanctioned battle and game mechanics are not in play, nothing stops Trainers from deploying all their Pokemon simultaneously. Trainers are priority targets only when they didn't deploy all their Pokemon yet; but after all Pokemon are already deployed, Trainers are just "weak commanders thinking they're smarter than everyone else".

I don't think it'd be an IC thing to do, since the cost to do a mewtwo clone was very high and Mew did not like it lmfao

Well, one doesn't have to clone Mewtwo specifically. Making exact clones of other Legendaries is also possible, since they also have DNA.

 

[User_A_98732165489]

Also: not all trainers have literal psychic link to their Pokemon - and even if they do, their reaction and cognition speed are also lower than those of their Pokemon, to the point that Trainers get Blitzed (E.G. FTL Trainer with MFTL+ Pokemon).

As such, Trainers have a great "lag" when reacting to events and issuing orders - and this "lag" would end up being so large, that orders become grossly outdated long before they reach the destination. In other words - by the moment Trainer notices something and opens his mouth, the situation in question is already over and 99 more actions have already happened.

As such, Tame Pokemon could only recieve orders from Trainers in advance (when not in combat). In combat, Trainers think too slowly to be useful, so Tame Pokemon have to de-facto act on their own, regardless of whether Trainer is still alive or not.

Trying to catch opposing Pokemon with Pokeballs is futile unless opposing Pokemon is restrained or Fainted - since Pokeballs travel so slowly that Pokemon can Blitz them. Knowledge on Pokemon is good, but outside-of-combat-only due to great lag.

TL;DR All Trainers, perhaps with small exceptions (e.g. Ash Ketchum with Massively FTL+ to Infinite reactions), are reduced to borderline-useless comically slow talking heads. Because of that, however, they may actually be the lowest priority targets - since they can't do anything useful, it's better to focus on actually dangerous enemies.

 

[User_A_98732165489]

And finally, Ultra Beasts are consideration. They are "At least 3-C, likely High 3-A", and entire dimension is filled with them. Trainers from that alternate dimension casually capture and tame Ultra Beasts - so UBs are on both teams.

As such, there would be literally millions of High 3-As around on both sides. To say the least, everything smaller than 3-C is made completely irrelevant, and "mere" 3-C to High 3-A characters are "a drop in the sea".

We have to start counting Tier 2 characters only.

P.S. Arceus is restricted, since if he's not canonically owned by any Human, match is a Stomp. If Arceus is owned by any Human, them fight would boil down into Arceus vs Arceus, which is Inconclusive.

 

[Nonynho]

Palkia is on both sides. So if Palkia BFRs someone, the opponent's Palkia will un-BFR them back. But if one Palkia does Faint and other doesn't yet, the remaining Palkia will definitely mop up all lesser enemies of his team.

It leaves me thinking that the tamed Palkia loses first, due to suddenly not having the trainer to guide him. Even though Cyrus ain't that good of a trainer and haven't bonded much with it, any slight edge gets the Wild one to win here

Since this is not League-sanctioned battle and game mechanics are not in play, nothing stops Trainers from deploying all their Pokemon simultaneously. Trainers are priority targets only when they didn't deploy all their Pokemon yet; but after all Pokemon are already deployed, Trainers are just "weak commanders thinking they're smarter than everyone else".

And most are getting banned with their pokémon by Palkia lol

Well, one doesn't have to clone Mewtwo specifically. Making exact clones of other Legendaries is also possible, since they also have DNA.

Which said pokémon aren't very cool about, was costy and made by the shadiest company in the verse
Not an option, imo

And finally, Ultra Beasts are consideration. They are "At least 3-C, likely High 3-A", and entire dimension is filled with them. Trainers from that alternate dimension casually capture and tame Ultra Beasts - so UBs are on both teams.

As such, there would be literally millions of High 3-As around on both sides. To say the least, everything smaller than 3-C is made completely irrelevant, and "mere" 3-C to High 3-A characters are "a drop in the sea".

We have to start counting Tier 2 characters only.

P.S. Arceus is restricted, since if he's not canonically owned by any Human, match is a Stomp. If Arceus is owned by any Human, them fight would boil down into Arceus vs Arceus, which is Inconclusive.

UBs are just getting Palkia'd too
or absorbed by Necrozma, or Tapu'd (reminder that the Tapu's are only in the wild side and Tapu Koko is a monster damagewise)
Or Yveltal'd too, who has edgy lifesteal laser
And Xerneas is also in the Wild side, can just stay in the back and Geomancy 10000 times to boom whoever with moonblast

 

[User_A_98732165489]

Palkia is on both sides. So if Palkia BFRs someone, the opponent's Palkia will un-BFR them back. But if one Palkia does Faint and other doesn't yet, the remaining Palkia will definitely mop up all lesser enemies of his team.

It leaves me thinking that the tamed Palkia loses first, due to suddenly not having the trainer to guide him. Even though Cyrus ain't that good of a trainer and haven't bonded much with it, any slight edge gets the Wild one to win here

That's one of the reasons why Tame Pokemon are better off acting on their own accord than relying on Trainer. The second one is "lag" between Trainer noticing something and Trainer issuing order.

And finally, Ultra Beasts are consideration. They are "At least 3-C, likely High 3-A", and entire dimension is filled with them. Trainers from that alternate dimension casually capture and tame Ultra Beasts - so UBs are on both teams.

As such, there would be literally millions of High 3-As around on both sides. To say the least, everything smaller than 3-C is made completely irrelevant, and "mere" 3-C to High 3-A characters are "a drop in the sea".

We have to start counting Tier 2 characters only.

P.S. Arceus is restricted, since if he's not canonically owned by any Human, match is a Stomp. If Arceus is owned by any Human, them fight would boil down into Arceus vs Arceus, which is Inconclusive.
Click to expand...

UBs are just getting Palkia'd too
or absorbed by Necrozma, or Tapu'd (reminder that the Tapu's are only in the wild side and Tapu Koko is a monster damagewise)
Or Yveltal'd too, who has edgy lifesteal laser
And Xerneas is also in the Wild side, can just stay in the back and Geomancy 10000 times to boom whoever with moonblast

What i wanted to say is that everyone less than Tier 2 don't matter, because High 3-A can't do much to 2-B and 2-A characters.

Trainers who matter (Most have full team of 6 Pokemon, some even have multiple such teams, each individual Pokemon is considered a separate unit):

• Red (Pokémon) - 2-B, likely 2-A, higher with Mega Pokémon
• Blue (Pokémon) - 2-B, likely 2-A, higher with Mega Pokémon
• Giovanni (Pokémon) - 2-B, likely 2-A, higher with Mewtwo Mega Evolutions
• Giovanni (Pokémon GO) - At least 5-B, likely higher
• Elio (Pokémon) - 2-B, likely 2-A
• Cyrus - 2-B, likely 2-A
• Chase (Pokemon) - At least 3-C, likely High 3-A
• Archie (Pokémon) - 2-B, likely 2-A
• Maxie (Pokémon) - 2-B, likely 2-A
• Barry (Pokémon) - 2-B, likely 2-A
• Maylene - At least 2-B, likely 2-A
• Cynthia (Pokémon) - 2-B, likely 2-A
• Cynthia (Pokémon Anime) - 2-B, likely 2-A, higher with Mega Garchomp & Dynamax
• Palmer - 2-B, likely 2-A
• Dahlia (Pokémon) - 2-B, likely 2-A
• Ghetsis - 2-B, likely 2-A
• Lysandre - 2-B, likely 2-A
• Nessa (Pokémon) - 2-B, likely 2-A, higher with Gigantamax Drednaw
• Marnie (Pokémon) - 2-B, likely 2-A, higher with Gigantamax Grimmsnarl
• Bede (Pokémon) - 2-B, likely 2-A, higher with Gigantamax Hatterene
• Hop (Pokémon) - 2-B, likely 2-A, higher with a Gigantamax Pokémon
• Bea (Pokémon) - 2-B, likely 2-A, higher with Gigantamax Machamp
• Allister - 2-B, likely 2-A, higher with Gigantamax Gengar
• Piers (Pokémon) - 2-B, likely 2-A
• Raihan - 2-B, likely 2-A, higher with Gigantamax Duraludon
• Leon (Pokémon) - 2-B, likely 2-A, higher with Gigantamax
• Peony - 2-B, likely 2-A, higher with Gigantamax Copperajah
• Mustard (Pokémon) - 2-B, likely 2-A, higher with Gigantamax Urshifu
• Chairman Rose - 2-B, likely 2-A, higher with Gigantamax Copperajah
• Ash Ketchum - 2-B, likely 2-A, higher with Mega Evolution, Z-Moves, or Dynamax
• Galaxy Team Path of Tenacity - 2-B, likely 2-A (including Zisu, Beni, and Captain Kamado)

Mythicals which matter:

• Celebi (PMD Explorers) - At least Low 2-C
• Darkrai - 2-B, likely 2-A

Legendaries which matter:

• Azelf - 2-B, likely 2-A Avatars with 2-B, likely 2-A True Form
• Cresselia - 2-B, likely 2-A
• Dialga - 2-B, likely 2-A Avatars with 2-B, likely 2-A True Form
• Eternatus - 2-B, likely 2-A, far higher with Eternamax
• Giratina - 2-B, likely 2-A Avatars with 2-B, likely 2-A True Form
• Mesprit - 2-B, likely 2-A Avatars with 2-B, likely 2-A True Form
• Palkia - 2-B, likely 2-A Avatars with 2-B, likely 2-A True Form
• Uxie - 2-B, likely 2-A Avatars with 2-B, likely 2-A True Form
• Zacian - 2-B, likely 2-A with Crowned Sword
• Zamazenta - 2-B, likely 2-A with Crowned Shield

33 Trainers total (198 Pokemon, not counting) including super-units of 1 Civilization, 2 Mythicals, 10 legendary True Forms and 6 Avatar types.

Characters of lower than Tier 2 can still help, with Hax - helping his teammates or hindering enemies; since many Hax ignore conventional Durability.

Numerically, Team Human seemingly has advantage - especially since each Trainer has team of 6 Pokemon, some have multiple teams, and they're all deployed simultaneously. On the other hand, we don't know about how many Avatars of Legendary Pokemon exist in total and what it takes to create more.

Fight basically turns into "escort mission" for Palkia on both sides. If Palkia of one party is defeated while the other isn't, fight ends instantly. Thus, entirety of both parties would clutter around their Palkia, ready to protect it with their lives. Finally, both Palkia's True Form and Palkia's Avatars can BFR and Un-BFR people - so fight is only lost when party loses Palkia and all his avatars.

 

[Nonynho]

(much like we're talking about in that Canon vs Legends thread, this right here should be in Fun and Games)

 

[User_A_98732165489]

(much like we're talking about in that Canon vs Legends thread, this right here should be in Fun and Games)

(i didn't yet know that Verse vs Verse fights are Fun and Games. And that "Half of Verse vs Other Half Of Verse" belong to Fun and Games too...)

 

[Nonynho]

Trainers who matter

know what? i'm with the patience, i'll go trainer by trainer with ya up until certain point, cuz i think if i go lengthy you may understand. Prepare to read "Palkia'd" and about Yveltal

Spoiler: lots of trainers

Red (Pokémon)

Pikachu | Snorlax | Lapras | Charizard | Venusaur | Blastoise

All palkia'd

Blue (Pokémon)

Pokémon FireRed/LeafGreen [...]

Pokémon Black/White 2 and Sun/Moon​

All Palkia'd. If Alakazam can come back, he can only do this alone, and any wild pokémon faster than him gets the job done quickly remember yveltal?

Giovanni (Pokémon)

Every single team member gets Palkia'd, of course, aside by Mewtwo, who gets other complications without a trainer and if anyone faster appears yveltal's really dangerous y'know?

Giovanni (Pokémon GO)

No team detailed, but if Shadow Mewtwo is his main thing, instead of Yveltal, it'll be Geomancy'd Xerneas eating his ass and the rest, Palkia'd

Elio (Pokémon)

Oh wow, cool pokém-- If Necrozma comes back from being Palkia'd, he does not have time to absorb anyone before - You guessed: Yveltal :>
Everyone else's just banned

Cyrus

Here's the thing, by banning Cyrus, tamed Palkia has already a heavy disadvantage telling us that he's fainting first
Palkia and Dialga's wild incarnations battle were not resolved by BFR because he TPs, but tamed Dialga also has the disadvantage of being tamed weighting at his back

And if you think that those are too small disadvantages, remember that the ice types in the wild side are still a looming threat and my guy Weavile is ironically here to haunt them with his ice type and huge speed

Must i speak more?

 

[User_A_98732165489]

Trainers who matter

know what? i'm with the patience, i'll go trainer by trainer with ya up until certain point, cuz i think if i go lengthy you may understand. Prepare to read "Palkia'd" and about Yveltal
Spoiler: lots of trainers

Red (Pokémon)

Pikachu | Snorlax | Lapras | Charizard | Venusaur | Blastoise

All palkia'd

Blue (Pokémon)

Pokémon FireRed/LeafGreen [...]​

All Palkia'd. If Alakazam can come back, he can only do this alone, and any wild pokémon faster than him gets the job done quickly remember yveltal?

Giovanni (Pokémon)

Every single team member gets Palkia'd, of course, aside by Mewtwo, who gets other complications without a trainer and if anyone faster appears yveltal's really dangerous y'know?

Giovanni (Pokémon GO)

No team detailed, but if Shadow Mewtwo is his main thing, instead of Yveltal, it'll be Geomancy'd Xerneas eating his ass and the rest, Palkia'd

Elio (Pokémon)

Oh wow, cool pokém-- If Necrozma comes back from being Palkia'd, he does not have time to absorb anyone before - You guessed: Yveltal :>
Everyone else's just banned

Cyrus

Here's the thing, by banning Cyrus, tamed Palkia has already a heavy disadvantage telling us that he's fainting first
Palkia and Dialga's wild incarnations battle were not resolved by BFR because he TPs, but tamed Dialga also has the disadvantage of being tamed weighting at his back

And if you think that those are too small disadvantages, remember that the ice types in the wild side are still a looming threat and my guy Weavile is ironically here to haunt them with his ice type and huge speed
Must i speak more?

After some thinking, Team Wild Pokemon would have the edge.

Team Humans has more Tier 2 non-legendary Pokemon, and that's about it at such scale.

Team Wild Pokemon, on other hand, has more Legendary Pokemon and more Mythical Pokemon. Additionally, being Tamed is only advantageous up to about 6-C; past that, having to protect one's trainer and lower experience with "thinking with one's head" out-weight the benefits.

There's also one more thing we forgot about. Ditto. This gets nonsensically large-scale:

• Ditto copies Powers, Abilities and Tier of other character. Ditto can breed. Therefore, provided with infinite time and infinite resources, it's possible to breed infinite amounts of Ditto (or any breedable Pokemon really).
• Infinite time is provided by Dialga and Celebi (loop time). Infinite resources are provided by those Legendary Pokemon which can create matter, or pocket universes, out of thin air.
• Each Legendary Pokemon, Mythical Pokemon, and Tier 3 to Tier 2 "Conventional" Pokemon are chosen as "Template Pokemon" of sorts. Dittos are divided into infinitely-large groups, each group for each "Template Pokemon". In each group, Dittos turn into their designated "Template Pokemon" before battle starts. Some infinitely-sized Ditto groups are held in reserve, and turn into opponent's "Template Pokemon" after battle starts.

Wild Pokemon benefit more from this strategy, as they have more Legendary and Mythical Pokemon. At this point, "actual" Legendaries and Mythicals are a drop in the sea, since there's literally infinite amounts of Ditto around. That, and there's infinitely many doubles of Palkia and Dialga around, which screws over the BFR strategy.

I count vote for Wild Pokemon.

 

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[https://vsbattles.com/threads/pokem...ame-pokemon-vs-all-wild-pokemon-1-0-0.187033/]

You can check the second variant there. This time properly in Fun And Games.

 

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[User_A_98732165489]

...This gave idea of creating "Pokemon Humanity" and "Wild Pokemon as a whole" (names pending) as Civilizations to list in Profiles. Good idea or not?