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I remember damage explained it and it made sense but i cant find the crt now
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Jujutsu Kaisen Discussion Page #1
- Thread starter PowerToScale
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NiceWip
ElJoaki5/Sandbox 2
vsbattles.fandom.com
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You do want them lower though right?
Arkenis
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Am rereading some stuff, and I think Dr Whitee gives a decent explanation for the speed stuff. I still disagree with ignoring the statements but I think reactions are completely fine for those of the high tiers and god tiers.
I personally would rather we just attribute Projection Sorcery solely to travel speed, argue it as imperceptible/hard to perceive because of how it functions not simply due to speed. And this is mostly because of how some spoke on it.
Maki explains how it isn't just Naoya being fast but that it felt strange, that he's making 24 movements every second.
Choso requires enhancing visual acuity.
The issue isn't simply that PS is too fast, it's the fact lower frames induces/causes their POV to be messed with. So when they're trying to react to Naoya/Naobito, their perception speed isn't low, rather PS is leaving out the finer movements. They can't understand the movements because it's not a smoother flow of movements like higher fps are, how they normally would see the world. Instead of the regular 30-60fps (ik its not literal) or higher some humans can do, they're only seeing 24fps. What Maki and Choso or those faster see is the more minute movements. And that's why Choso enhanced his dynamic visual acuity, it counteracts Naoya's visual lowering of his own movements.
This is entirely a perception issue not a speed issue. I could point out further how against Naoya, Maki's severely fatigued and her perception is gonna be weak and required her to figure out Naoya's ct, instead of just seeing it all like Choso did with FRSS. And Choso's issue, isn't speed either, the tunnel they fight in is constantly flashing and dark, it's the perfect place for PS to be used because it further enhances the visual delay and I think the anime team fully understood this and made it apparent.
I personally would rather we just attribute Projection Sorcery solely to travel speed, argue it as imperceptible/hard to perceive because of how it functions not simply due to speed. And this is mostly because of how some spoke on it.
Maki explains how it isn't just Naoya being fast but that it felt strange, that he's making 24 movements every second.
Choso requires enhancing visual acuity.
The issue isn't simply that PS is too fast, it's the fact lower frames induces/causes their POV to be messed with. So when they're trying to react to Naoya/Naobito, their perception speed isn't low, rather PS is leaving out the finer movements. They can't understand the movements because it's not a smoother flow of movements like higher fps are, how they normally would see the world. Instead of the regular 30-60fps (ik its not literal) or higher some humans can do, they're only seeing 24fps. What Maki and Choso or those faster see is the more minute movements. And that's why Choso enhanced his dynamic visual acuity, it counteracts Naoya's visual lowering of his own movements.
This is entirely a perception issue not a speed issue. I could point out further how against Naoya, Maki's severely fatigued and her perception is gonna be weak and required her to figure out Naoya's ct, instead of just seeing it all like Choso did with FRSS. And Choso's issue, isn't speed either, the tunnel they fight in is constantly flashing and dark, it's the perfect place for PS to be used because it further enhances the visual delay and I think the anime team fully understood this and made it apparent.
Rodriiogo
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I'm confused now, not anything related to whatever scale it is but how would it only apply to reactions. I swear I still havent gotten that.
UNLESS you mean reactions AND combat if so sure I agree (their travel speed has never been anything special lol)
Rodriiogo
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I agree with this btw, I do think everyone should be higher in everything, I'm just actually confused whats the logic for all the "reaction speed" stuff really since even the current scale does it with sukuna, gojo etc, even the heavy hitters have mach 4.6 "reactions" and nothing more.
Arkenis
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Besides like Hakari, no one really blitzes each other in fights. MHS Hakari reaction feat would let them react to their supersonic/hypersonic combat speed. If that's too outlierish, then we can scale people off Yuta speed feats or Jogo speed calcs. Kenjaku's PB dodge makes hypersonic more consistent personally but if you guys want MHS there's gotta be something else besides Hakari.
Arkenis
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I'm sorry but how? Maki easily reacts to Mach 3. That doesn't cap her anymore and her movements are relative to it if not somewhat lower. Hakari would outright scale above, Yuta and Yuji would be more relative. And I so clearly didn't say it's just movement, but obviously no else has movement over distance that fast I'm sure everyone agree with that.
Rodriiogo
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You don't need to blitz someone to scale to someone's reactions like do we think Kenjaku just forgot to enable his mach 4.6 reactions when mach 2 Yuki dashed at him even when he was looking right at her here? If he truly had reactions speed TWICE OVER her combat speed he would see this coming and easily dodge it no?
Rodriiogo
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I think it's obvious that each character scales in combat speeds to their own reaction speeds in JJK icl. Even gojo and sukuna's reactions should scale to their combat speeds otherwise their fight when they clash physically makes no sense, you are basically saying they are attacking eachother with punches, kicks, attacks 15468.5046x slower than their own reactions yet they somehow hit eachother?
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We have Average Human speed with MFTL+ reactions in this wiki. I don't think it matters much
Rodriiogo
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do they fight another person with MFTL+ reactions and they constantly tag and hit eachother like sukuna and gojo do?
Arkenis
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Yeah not saying they do, just that from what I can remember, high tiers generally block or dodges attacks because they're reactions are faster. It makes sense with no one having combat speed calced at mhs. Hakari would be the only one since he started blitzed Kashimo with more domains.
Every character doesn't gotta dodge to show they're faster, he blocked here, and likely because he didn't think he was boutta get rocked. This also isn't combat speed, she ran to him. So unless you wanna fall down mhs running speed Yuki, then this example isn't it.
Gojo and Sukuna blatantly don't though. That number you place ALL depends on how we interpret Gojo's BF statement. If it's solely just activation of ce flow then it matters zero to reactions and just that he's usually always first to activate ce or notice something.
Arkenis
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Ever heard of Jojo's? Most the cast is ftl-mftl reactions, but deadass superhuman in combat
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Whats even the difference between reactions and combat ngl? I'm confused
Like yeah "reactions and combat speeds are different" but whats really the difference?
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worst possible example of this, Kenjaku was 100% sure of Ganesha's ct working and couldnt possibly think Yuki's ct outright counters it (and people say Kenny was carried by plot), at this point she's already close and running at him, and he still blocked the hit with both hands lol, but again he couldnt know that her punch would be that strongYou don't need to blitz someone to scale to someone's reactions like do we think Kenjaku just forgot to enable his mach 4.6 reactions when mach 2 Yuki dashed at him even when he was looking right at her here? If he truly had reactions speed TWICE OVER her combat speed he would see this coming and easily dodge it no?
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Speed
Speed is simply how fast a character can move in a given amount of time. There are five types of speed used for VS purposes: Attack Speed, Combat Speed, Reaction Speed, Travel Speed, and Flight Speed. The term "Speed" normally refers to Combat Speed. The speed at which an attack moves. For...
vsbattles.fandom.com
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Reaction is the timeframe in which your body start to make an action and gives you some fast initial movement, while combat speed is the speed that you make to finish the action within combat
Rodriiogo
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So Kenjaku despite being able to easily dodge decided to put his arms in front of him despite just being shocked at her power the panel before and was literally scared of whatever her technique might be because it could kill him, the whole reason why he didn't wanna get close btw, someone downgrade Kenjaku's intelligence please, but whatever, Ryu, Rika and Yuta punch each other quite alot I'm pretty sure, and again you are NOT convincing anyone that JP Hakari, Base Kashimo and Uraume are over 2000x faster than Maki and Yuta man
I'm not even going off just the BF statement. The wiki currently scales Gojo and Sukuna at: ">Mach 7.289, with 0.129 c reactions" that does not make sense at all man.
Tell me with a straight face that throughout this parts of the fight they are punching, dashing and attacking each other at Mach 7.2 while having 0.129c reactions. They should just be 0.129c in combat speed aswell.
I will re-iterate my question, do those characters constantly tag and hit eachother with their own speed?
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Gotta share this info
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Arkenis
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If we can get that accepted then we'd just drop this reaction stuff. Yeah Kenjaku would since he'd also scale to Maki who is above mach 3.
This is just pointless to argue over. Gege wanted him to get hit, break through the barrier so he could then talk about her powers. It's got ZERO to do with your need for every feat to be precisely reasoned with about why a character did or didn't react how you think they should've. And I don't need to convince you or anyone, but you want mhs combat & reaction so you do need to convince people of it. I am perfectly fine with something lower.
Nope. Humans and fictional characters can have far superior reactions to their combat speed and we often do. They're both relative in reactions, thus both are predicting and maneuvering around their combat speed. But I'm fine with higher combat speed for both, this doesn't mean much. Also Gojo should have 0.129 with Blue listed, since he blitzed Sukuna.
Yes
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Thinks?Bro thinks hes him
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some but it works
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who are the high tiers eljo..
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Every non-top tier except Yuji and maybe MBA Kashimo should be Subsonic lowk
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Why is Yuji excluded?
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Because he's that guy, top in the verse and in general just stronger than the heavy hitters
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Heavy hitters, relative and superior.
Aka the fellas that are Supersonic+ or higher rn.
I am also coming up with an argument agaisnt the superhuman scaling as of now.
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That second part is cap.
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maybe in mojuro
Qurbonboev
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Even disregarding other arguments, it sounds right to me. In no reality, Sukuna and Gojo can do hand signs 20000x times faster than punches
Rodriiogo
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Next thing you know it will be downgraded to subsonic, I'm afraid of even getting someone to check it cause that's what happens 90% of the time
This is a lame answer ngl, not even gonna call it bad or good just lame "well gege wanted him to get hit" man he still got hit what do you want me to do. And I'm gonna wait for at least hakari dodging lightning to be confirmed by the anime or not before pushing anything on MHS just to be sure it won't get downgraded again over nonsense like it did previously
I know you already said you're fine with the higher combat speeds but I still wanna answer that even if I conceded they could have higher in reactions it should be in no planet that much over it, no way someone with relativistic reaction is struggling with multiple hypersonic+ stuff like this:
Sukuna even notes his speed on the third one lol
They very clearly have at least comparable speeds between their combat and reactions
Then I'd also want them upgraded if I scaled the verse cause aint no way someone can constantly punch each other in the face or smth when both have X reaction speed yet their combat speed is thousands of times slower.
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POV: Yall saying Sukuna is relativistic but he's getting hurt by a bunch of mach 1 fools
Rodriiogo
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King of holding back
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The only reason of why I'm not so against Relativistic anymore is cuz Dabura got potential to be SoL and he already got a MHS to SubRela feat.
Iirc it was agreed to revise the godtiers once Modulo was over
Iirc it was agreed to revise the godtiers once Modulo was over
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