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Not exactly, my premise (and so is the author's) is that 4D might exist. But the reason of that premise ends with "because teleportation is dimensional movement", which is TRUE, meaning the 4D is also true.
The conclusion is that "it does exist" without an OR choice.
This causes even more problems then.
First of all, you are and have been confusing premises and conclusions, what you're describing is a conclusion and not a premise. premises are used to infer other premises or conclusions. a conclusion is a proposition reached by premises.
Second of all, Ur conclusion doesn't follow. Between the two statements, you use a butchered form of modus ponens to come to ur conclusion. Lets say that P(teleportation is dimensional travel) implies Q(there might be 4 dimensions), and then you confirm P is true and it logically follows that Q is therefore true. Then in this case Q would be "there might be 4 dimensions" and not "there are 4 dimensions". You're pulling the necessity from ur ass since to begin with the conclusion was a modal claim.
Imaginary Number Space still doesn't make much sense with wiki methodology. It still amounts to a name drop no matter how specific the name might seem. You can see this with instant death despite explicitly using term for type 4 multiverse we dont consider it equivalent in tier (this was before the whole theres nothing infinite in the verse so bringing that up wont help) since it's literally just a name drop.
This causes even more problems then.
First of all, you are and have been confusing premises and conclusions, what you're describing is a conclusion and not a premise. premises are used to infer other premises or conclusions. a conclusion is a proposition reached by premises.
Second of all, Ur conclusion doesn't follow. Between the two statements, you use a butchered form of modus ponens to come to ur conclusion. Lets say that P(teleportation is dimensional travel) implies Q(there might be 4 dimensions), and then you confirm P is true and it logically follows that Q is therefore true. Then in this case Q would be "there might be 4 dimensions" and not "there are 4 dimensions". You're pulling the necessity from ur ass since to begin with the conclusion was a modal claim.
We should not forget context of that message, which is the answer to fan's comment. Fan stated that 4D battle has begun.
The way Fuse answered seems more like getting an idea to me. Something like "You know what? Teleportation is a dimensional movement. Yeah, there might be fourth dimension!" or something like that. It's not like Fuse back then was playing mind games with people and say "Fourth dimension? Is it there? Might be? Might be not? Who knows? Figure it out."
At the end of the day he didn't negated that statement, which is already a big reason to think that 3D is not a limit for spatial dimensions in Tensura. And events in web novel confirms his words about dimensional travel.
We should not forget context of that message, which is the answer to fan's comment. Fan stated that 4D battle has begun.
The way Fuse answered seems more like getting an idea to me. Something like "You know what? Teleportation is a dimensional movement. Yeah, there might be fourth dimension!" or something like that. It's not like Fuse back then was playing mind games with people and say "Fourth dimension? Is it there? Might be? Might be not? Who knows? Figure it out."
Im not going to argue over the subjectivity of the statement. you have no proof that, that is truly what he is actually intended unless he himself explains it. i believe using ambigious statements inorder to justify something not explicit seems like a outlier
In Instant Death, especially the claim that nothing infinite exists, this argument is illogical and contradicts what is stated within the work itself. Therefore, it is a false and invalid argument, and it is not something that should be taken seriously, particularly when it comes from an unreliable character.
This is exactly similar to the case of the Afterlife in Dragon Ball, where the series states that the afterlife lacks the concept of time, and there are other pieces of evidence as well. However, despite all of that, this still contradicts what is shown throughout the series, which makes such a claim impossible, even if the work itself states that it lacks the concept of time. The same logic applies here.
The entire Instant Death series consistently talks about infinite universes and uses the term “infinite” in all of its explanations, as well as in the author’s own statements. Therefore, the words of a single minor character are not sufficient. If we were to accept this kind of logic, we would then have to upgrade all characters through exaggerations and absurd claims to higher tiers, including those from Dragon Ball, Bleach, and many other works.
What leads me to say this is the statement of the Absolute God in the Instant Death series: this god is described as the strongest and greatest deity in the entire series, and everything he says is true. He himself has clarified and corrected many things in the series, while the gods and all other characters speak empty and meaningless words. The Absolute God himself stated that everything they say is mere nonsense, openly belittling everyone.
The Absolute God is the only one who truly understands cosmology and Yogiri in the series, unlike the others. He explicitly stated that the Ultimate Ensemble contains all possible worlds (all worlds that can be conceived). The Absolute God has clarified and corrected many aspects of the series, and for that reason, the statement of that character is not sufficient, and it is embarrassing to rely on it in the face of all this evidence and the words of the Absolute God.
In Instant Death, especially the claim that nothing infinite exists, this argument is illogical and contradicts what is stated within the work itself. Therefore, it is a false and invalid argument, and it is not something that should be taken seriously, particularly when it comes from an unreliable character.
This is exactly similar to the case of the Afterlife in Dragon Ball, where the series states that the afterlife lacks the concept of time, and there are other pieces of evidence as well. However, despite all of that, this still contradicts what is shown throughout the series, which makes such a claim impossible, even if the work itself states that it lacks the concept of time. The same logic applies here.
The entire Instant Death series consistently talks about infinite universes and uses the term “infinite” in all of its explanations, as well as in the author’s own statements. Therefore, the words of a single minor character are not sufficient. If we were to accept this kind of logic, we would then have to upgrade all characters through exaggerations and absurd claims to higher tiers, including those from Dragon Ball, Bleach, and many other works.
What leads me to say this is the statement of the Absolute God in the Instant Death series: this god is described as the strongest and greatest deity in the entire series, and everything he says is true. He himself has clarified and corrected many things in the series, while the gods and all other characters speak empty and meaningless words. The Absolute God himself stated that everything they say is mere nonsense, openly belittling everyone.
The Absolute God is the only one who truly understands cosmology and Yogiri in the series, unlike the others. He explicitly stated that the Ultimate Ensemble contains all possible worlds (all worlds that can be conceived). The Absolute God has clarified and corrected many aspects of the series, and for that reason, the statement of that character is not sufficient, and it is embarrassing to rely on it in the face of all this evidence and the words of the Absolute God.
This causes even more problems then.
First of all, you are and have been confusing premises and conclusions, what you're describing is a conclusion and not a premise. premises are used to infer other premises or conclusions. a conclusion is a proposition reached by premises.
Second of all, Ur conclusion doesn't follow. Between the two statements, you use a butchered form of modus ponens to come to ur conclusion. Lets say that P(teleportation is dimensional travel) implies Q(there might be 4 dimensions), and then you confirm P is true and it logically follows that Q is therefore true. Then in this case Q would be "there might be 4 dimensions" and not "there are 4 dimensions". You're pulling the necessity from ur ass since to begin with the conclusion was a modal claim.
I've already explained in the OP how the Japanese structure is different from the English structure, your argument seems to come from that latter, while mine is from the prior -_-
Also, I believe I've already said this MANY times in the OP and the previous thread that we aren't using the author statement by itself for a scaling, but the correlation it has with in-verse statements. @Super_Nova pointed it out how Spatial manip using gates does seem similar to that sci-fi interpretation of Teleportation.
Imaginary Number Space still doesn't make much sense with wiki methodology. It still amounts to a name drop no matter how specific the name might seem. You can see this with instant death despite explicitly using term for type 4 multiverse we dont consider it equivalent in tier (this was before the whole theres nothing infinite in the verse so bringing that up wont help) since it's literally just a name drop.
It isn't exactly "just a name dropped and nothing else said".
There was this explanation with the scan in the OP:
Answer: Yes. Well, just the fact that it's an Imaginary Number Space means that, but I know make non-math loving people here won't be satisfied with just that, so let's get to in-verse examples.
The ability (Infinite Prison) basically utilizes INS for sealing targets, or for sealing oneself (kind of like a protective barrier). Wellz here's the "extent" of that isolation:
本来、勇者のユニークスキル『無限牢獄』は、対象を永遠の時間、無限の虚数空間に封じ込めるスキルであり、現実世界への干渉を許す程甘い能力ではないのだそうだ。
Originally, the hero's unique skill,『Infinite Prison』was a skill that confined/traps/seals the target in an infinite imaginary number space for eternity, and it was not a weak ability that allowed it to interfere with the real world. Source Though it does seem strange that the only thing he can do is to communicate telepathically…
It’s not like the skill weakens with time, after all. Being able to even recognize the present and converse with other creatures all seem like example of interference. What’s unusual is Veldora himself here… Chapter 4
So you can't even recognize the real number space/real world while sealed here. Even "recognition/perception" is considered a kind of interfere. In that sense, yes, if something exists in a different axis, we cannot perceive it as we only perceive the 3 axis we inhabit. And the same goes for vice versa (for the one sealed).
And the Imaginary Number Space is described as a "film":
…Fumu.
The chances are far too low.
Doesn’t look more than flimsy film, this [Endless Prison] skill. But for it to be impervious to physical damage….
There must be some weakness to this absolute defense.
(Did hero take any damage? Any wounds or something?)
(Well asked! Our blows were well watched, and I have landed a few direct hits! But, there was no effect.
Kanji is 透明な膜 which means Transparent Membrane/Film. Kind of like.
Note that INS itself isn't a film, the film is the skill <infinite Prison>. Even Interaction is only possible as a film due to Veldora being abnormal (an exception, so to say).
Additionally, even if you take away the Wikipedia definition of INS, what you're left with is "imaginary number space", or, a space based on imaginary numbers.
Imaginary Numbers aren't a cosmology theory, they're a mathematical tool for describing things extending in an orthogonal axis, and that's something which, to sn extent, I also learned in my 10th grade and beyond. So once again the argument remains, imaginary numbers themselves are specific, even if we don't take the whole INS interpretation from the linked Wikipedia page.
Why we treat it as a scaleable dimension, however, is because it's infinite.
In Instant Death, especially the claim that nothing infinite exists, this argument is illogical and contradicts what is stated within the work itself. Therefore, it is a false and invalid argument, and it is not something that should be taken seriously, particularly when it comes from an unreliable character.
This is exactly similar to the case of the Afterlife in Dragon Ball, where the serie s states that the afterlife lacks the concept of time, and there are other pieces of evidence as well. However, despite all of that, this still contradicts what is shown throughout the series, which makes such a claim impossible, even if the work itself states that it lacks the concept of time. The same logic applies here.
The entire Instant Death series consistently talks about infinite universes and uses the term “infinite” in all of its explanations, as well as in the author’s own statements. Therefore, the words of a single minor character are not sufficient. If we were to accept this kind of logic, we would then have to upgrade all characters through exaggerations and absurd claims to higher tiers, including those from Dragon Ball, Bleach, and many other works.
What leads me to say this is the statement of the Absolute God in the Instant Death series: this god is described as the strongest and greatest deity in the entire series, and everything he says is true. He himself has clarified and corrected many things in the series, while the gods and all other characters speak empty and meaningless words. The Absolute God himself stated that everything they say is mere nonsense, openly belittling everyone.
The Absolute God is the only one who truly understands cosmology and Yogiri in the series, unlike the others. He explicitly stated that the Ultimate Ensemble contains all possible worlds (all worlds that can be conceived). The Absolute God has clarified and corrected many aspects of the series, and for that reason, the statement of that character is not sufficient, and it is embarrassing to rely on it in the face of all this evidence and the words of the Absolute God.
I don't mind the help at all you gave before, but this post isn't particularly helpful. This is a tensura thread, not one for instant death. Someone mentioning instant death once doesn't mean you can go entirely off topic to explain instant death instead ¯\(ツ)/¯
Honestly, I do not understand the INS argument. I have reread it several times and still do not see what exactly is supposed to scale to a higher dimensional layer in those statements.
Setting that aside, the 4-D teleportation argument seems coherent to me. I do not understand why there is so much uncertainty. There is direct evidence in the novel that supports the author’s statement, so dismissing it solely because Fuse chose to be intentionally "indirect" (something extremely common), allowing readers to later confirm it on their own by reading, strikes me as absurd. I would understand the logic if it were a completely empty, contradictory, or unsupported statement, but that does not seem to be the case here.
I am not entirely sure whether the verse treats the temporal axis as a spatial one for travel purposes, or whether there is actually an additional time axis within the Worldline. But I think it is undeniable that “All Time” constitutes a higher temporal dimension.
For now, I am leaning toward a 5-D interpretation.
Honestly, I do not understand the INS argument. I have reread it several times and still do not see what exactly is supposed to scale to a higher dimensional layer in those statements.
Setting that aside, the 4-D teleportation argument seems coherent to me. I do not understand why there is so much uncertainty. There is direct evidence in the novel that supports the author’s statement, so dismissing it solely because Fuse chose to be intentionally "indirect" (something extremely common), allowing readers to later confirm it on their own by reading, strikes me as absurd. I would understand the logic if it were a completely empty, contradictory, or unsupported statement, but that does not seem to be the case here.
I am not entirely sure whether the verse treats the temporal axis as a spatial one for travel purposes, or whether there is actually an additional time axis within the Worldline. But I think it is undeniable that “All Time” constitutes a higher temporal dimension.
For now, I am leaning toward a 5-D interpretation.
The INS thing is because imaginary numbers extend in a different axis, and so would imaginary number space. This one scan should summarize it
本来、勇者のユニークスキル『無限牢獄』は、対象を永遠の時間、無限の虚数空間に封じ込めるスキルであり、現実世界への干渉を許す程甘い能力ではないのだそうだ。
Originally, the hero's unique skill,『Infinite Prison』was a skill that confined/traps/seals the target in an infinite imaginary number space for eternity, and it was not a weak ability that allowed it to interfere with the real world. Source Though it does seem strange that the only thing he can do is to communicate telepathically…
It’s not like the skill weakens with time, after all. Being able to even recognize the present and converse with other creatures all seem like example of interference. What’s unusual is Veldora himself here… Chapter 4
If that still seems uncertain, I am willing to put it as a "possibly" instead.
I should have added this, but I forgot and it suddenly came to mind again, but the "dimension" that Spatial ability users use (4th dimension) is also called subspace / hyperspace in-verse.
Benimaru shouted, and cut at Souei who had appeared from his blind spot. The tachi stopped right above Souei’s neck, and Souei too stopped moving. Benimaru’s victory. You see, Benimaru has this unique skill 『Generalissimo』 which he uses to command all the troops. Though it’s not a anti-personnel skill, it does come with a useful perk. Space recognition. He has the highest spatial recognition ability. Normally, he uses it to comprehend the entire theater of battle by viewing the entirety of space and sub-space at once. So once he has perceived an opponent, he will not lose them even if they are but a shadow in the sub space. So it may be impossible to evade Benimaru’s detection. In short, Souei was at a disadvantage from the very first second.
Reason why I say this subspace/hyperspace specifically refers to the one used by Spatial Movement users is cuz 影移動 is used, which means shadow movement (in the translation it's called "but a mere shadow in subspace") which is just an alternate translation for shadow step/shadow Motion.
There isn't any additional time axis to the World-Line itself, but Worlds/Universes (their container) do seem to have one. And given it flows even in the space outside the continuum (insignificant but 5D), an orthogonal direction is necessary.
Though, correct me if I'm wrong, but you agree with the 4th spatial dimension and the higher time axis, so are you leaning to a 6D interpretation or a 5D one?
Since you seem to agree to 2 upgrades (spatial and temporal axis), I'm a bit confused on why you said 5D in the end (maybe a typo?)
Edit: I asked Berny on discord and she said she agrees with 4th Dimension + Higher Temporal Dimension
Kinda crazy how it is none of those.using them all wrong.
The fan didn’t ask “is this a 4th dimensional battle?”
or anything of the sort. Nothing in the comment even made it so that the author had to answer in agreement.
Fan simply gave their opinion on how it worked.a comment on the chapter. Not even a question towards the author. The author saw the comment, thought it was interesting,and responded saying that it is indeed possible because teleportation does go into a different dimension,said dimension is later stated to be a hyper space.making it clear that it is not some uncertain thing,but instead something that was already in the series
You're ignoring all the scans from the novel itself + the subspace thing Astral mentioned above, and disagreeing based on only the WoG which by itself doesn't have any problem that you mentioned.
It's not a question to begin with + the author is just being indirect + the “might” is on the existence of the 4th dimension, not whether it's the 4th or not. And the novel already confirms that this dimension exists, characters travel through it.
So your disagreement is based on hasty generalization and fallacy of accident
You're ignoring all the scans from the novel itself + the subspace thing Astral mentioned above, and disagreeing based on only the WoG which by itself doesn't have any problem that you mentioned.
It's not a question to begin with + the author is just being indirect + the “might” is on the existence of the 4th dimension, not whether it's the 4th or not. And the novel already confirms that this dimension exists, characters travel through it.
So your disagreement is based on hasty generalization and fallacy of accident
I am not using WOG to disagree with the novel's contents (infact i am against using WOG at all in this case) rather, I am disagreeing with the use of WOG entirely in this context. Given our standards for accepting such statements, this specific WOG is unusable and unreliable given its unceratinity. Regarding the scans from the novel, the term 'dimensions' is meaningless unless explicitly used in a mathematical context. If you believe my disagreement is based on WOG, you can remove it from the OP entirely and it wouldn't change anything, as uncertain WOG statements should not be used. If the author himself is unsure whether there are four dimensions or not, better just remove ths WOG and keep it simple.
I am not using WOG to disagree with the novel's contents (infact i am against using WOG at all in this case) rather, I am disagreeing with the use of WOG entirely in this context. Given our standards for accepting such statements, this specific WOG is unusable and unreliable given its unceratinity. Regarding the scans from the novel, the term 'dimensions' is meaningless unless explicitly used in a mathematical context. If you believe my disagreement is based on WOG, you can remove it from the OP entirely and it wouldn't change anything, as uncertain WOG statements should not be used. If the author himself is unsure whether there are four dimensions or not, better just remove ths WOG and keep it simple.
I can’t tell if you just aren’t reading the full thread or something.
The author says the 4th dimension might exist because of teleportation.
It is then shown that teleportation does indeed use the dimension. Since the dimension is shown to exist,we can peice together that this dimension IS the 4th dimension that the author is referring to.the scans showing the dimensions aren’t there to show that the novel says something about “the 4th dimension” it is instead there to show that when fuse said that the 4th dimension might exist BECAUSE of teleportation exists->it makes it so that they are Reciprocal. A entails B (and B entails A)
modus ponens
Based on the author’s comment, we know that teleportation is the only reason given as to why the 4th dimension would exist. Now this alone wouldn’t really follow fully,but since teleportation is shown to happen via an other dimensional space and said dimension is called a hyper-space as well, giving enough evidence to make it very blatant. we can conclude that this dimension is the 4th dimension the author added as it shows that his mind was not changed.
I am not using WOG to disagree with the novel's contents (infact i am against using WOG at all in this case) rather, I am disagreeing with the use of WOG entirely in this context. Given our standards for accepting such statements, this specific WOG is unusable and unreliable given its unceratinity. Regarding the scans from the novel, the term 'dimensions' is meaningless unless explicitly used in a mathematical context. If you believe my disagreement is based on WOG, you can remove it from the OP entirely and it wouldn't change anything, as uncertain WOG statements should not be used. If the author himself is unsure whether there are four dimensions or not, better just remove ths WOG and keep it simple.
Your vote (first post) said you disagreed while highlighting the word "might"
And the problem with your disagreement on WoG is that it interprets it wrong. Being indirect does not mean the author is being uncertain. The arguments why the WoG is usable are told by astral, but you focus entirely on the word "might" without even trying to understand what might refer to there.
A dimension being referred to as Subspace/hyperspace is certainly a mathematical context, and given how you're following the thread and replying regularly, so why are you ignoring that?
Going through a different dimension + by using gates + connecting coordinates in space are all too identical to the sci-fi interpretation of folding space. Hyperspace/Subspace too
The WoG is not unsure. To begin with, it's not even about being unsure but indirect speech.
But, if even being indirect is a problem, even then the novel talks about that very 4th dimension, but simply doesn't call it the 4th.
The WoG can also simply be used for "what the author had in mind while writing that part in the novel" and thus the view that the dimension refers to the 4th, it's not far fetched at all
But the OP also proposed 6D and 7D. Even if 7D doesn't get accepted due to INS, the 4th dimension stuff has too much context in the novel to dismiss as is. Though, should have it been in a different crt? (5D and 6D separately)?
But the OP also proposed 6D and 7D. Even if 7D doesn't get accepted due to INS, the 4th dimension stuff has too much context in the novel to dismiss as is. Though, should have it been in a different crt? (5D and 6D separately)?
Done with all the rating changes and removing.
I also removed the neutral/disagreement votes regarding the removed stuff since... They aren't even there now ¯\(ツ)/¯
This is the tally rn
Currently the OP sets aside both the 4th Spatial Dimension (the topic related to the author statement) and the Imaginary Number Space (a separate topic) and as such, limits the current proposal to L1C
I've already explained in the OP how the Japanese structure is different from the English structure, your argument seems to come from that latter, while mine is from the prior -_-
this doesn't address anything btw. my claim already assumed ur position. you talk alot about how you dont want people to drag the thread longer than it has to be. why dont you follow those standards yourself. anyways im not pushing this any further as you've removed the argument.
this doesn't address anything btw. my claim already assumed ur position. you talk alot about how you dont want people to drag the thread longer than it has to be. why dont you follow those standards yourself. anyways im not pushing this any further as you've removed the argument.
I know most people in this thread are NOT happy to see me, but idc. For starters, I do want to give props, @Astral_Trinity439 did build this up nicely and finally with some foundations for the further talking points. Since the Subject matter has turned to the Hypertimeline, I just want to add some information of my own.
Also, Fyi, my prior arguments were using the stance of contradictions since people failed to create a foundation for a hypertimeline existing in the first place, meaning contradicting infinite time or lifespan was justified under those circumstances, not that I fail to realize the standard of the wiki.
"All Time" is infinite?
Regarding the "time is infinite" statement, this isn't really referring to the space-time for the current world at play. This is actually just referring to Velda's ability to go through an eternity of time by resurrecting and dwelling within other people's soul, which lastly he ended up in Yuuki's soul.
And so Yuuki, no Velda, said as he started to talk.
When Veldanava married Lucia, who was the younger sister of Rudra, he changed his name to Velda Nava.
Thus, he settled it by giving his official name.
And now, it was time for the descent of the true master of the castle on the sky.
The grand audience hall, by the blessing of the will-less angels, was wrapped in a wave of joy due to the overwhelming divinity.
Their true creator had returned after a long time.
Velda intends to settle everything with the Great War (game) that he declared to the Demon Lord Rimuru.
It is the last decision that he gave and it was the will of the Creator (Kagurazaka Yuuki) who reproduced him.
It could be easily imagined that it would become a large-scale Great War, the likes of which have never been seen before.
He did not understand his own true identity.
He is Angra Mainyu, the one who wished for the destruction of the world. He wandered to many worlds, passing through the eternity of time, until he dwelled into Yuuki’s soul.
When Yuuki had just become a grade-schooler, his parents were involved in an accident and died.
It was an instant death due to a head-on collision with a truck whose driver fell asleep at the wheel and it was at this time, that Yuuki awoke..
It could be said that Yuuki’s will, that wished for the destruction of the world, was the main reason why Angra Mainyu awakened. Since then, several years have passed by and once again he crossed worlds once again. Was it a coincidence or was it the inevitable?
He recovered a fragment of his missing memory and built a firm will due to Yuuki acquiring the Ultimate Skill『Creation Lord Ahura Mazda』.
However, that power was too much for Yuuki at the time.
Angra Mainyu regained his memory as Velda once again simultaneously.
Velda, who had just awakened, used most of Yuuki’s power, so Ultimate Skill『Creation Lord Ahura Mazda』 was degraded into the Unique Skill『Creator』.
And so, with the relationship of coexistence and mutual prosperity, it became like how it was now.
According to his memories, his true identity was Velda, in other words; he was the heart of the “Stellar King Dragon” Veldanava.
Most of his soul power had been passed to Milim Nava who was his daughter.
The remainder was him, Velda Nava.
But, was he really Velda? He may only be Angra Mainyu, whose will awakened to a simple skill.
This was the question that had always dwelled inside Velda’s mind.
“Stellar King Dragon” Veldanava had perished, and Velda was left.
Then, is the current him the “Stellar King Dragon”? The answer was no.
He is an empty shell which had lost its power and he was not a match to his power during his prime.
But, there were no problems. His power was sufficient, he even finished recovering『Justice Lord Michael』, which transferred when he died.
As for his purpose, it was plain and simple. To resurrect Lucia and to see whether he truly was the heart of the “Stellar King Dragon” Veldanava who truly loved Lucia. He would destroy the world many times and his soul would return many times to call back Lucia’s soul.
His wish is to destroy it over and over again endlessly to regain her back for sure.
He collected the fragments of her soul in order to regain her heart.
The probability of success was extremely small, to the extent that it could be said as a non-possibility, but the answer would never be 0. Then, he would just carry it out.
His host named Yuuki wanted to destroy the world, so their purposes matched.
Thus, they formed a cooperative relationship and treated each other as equals.
It was Velda’s turn right now. Until he wished to swap, Yuuki will be sealed in the depths of their soul.
By the way, he let Lucia’s body that he had kept to borne a seraph, and brought back her appearance of when she was still alive.
『Justice Lord Michael』moved Lucia like a heartless doll.
Michael had a close nature to Angra Mainyu, having been taken in by Velda once before, it retained its faithful will to him.
It could be said that Michael is most suited to be the guardian who would protect Lucia’s body.
Because of Michael, it’s not possible to wound, or to even touch Lucia’s body, as long as Velda yearned for Lucia. Originally, Lucia had possessed the Ultimate Skill『Wisdom Lord Raphael』 which seemed to have been lost upon her death.
Thinking back on it, when he transferred『Justice Lord Michael』, instead of keeping it, his Ultimate Skill,『Covenant Lord Uriel』was also lost in the same way.
Those two souls had been completely broken, and maybe because of that, it was scattered to the world. Because he was Velda, even from the state of only being a heart, he had been able to revive. Reviving Lucia might have been possible when he was the ”Stellar Lord Dragon” Veldanava, but it was not an easy task for the current Velda.
First of all, he must recover all the abilities. Whatever it takes, he needs to obtain the Ultimate Skill,『Wisdom Lord Raphael』 that will be reborn somewhere, and someday.
He wasn’t panicking.
Because time is infinite and his life span was as well.
Because Lucia will surely wait for him until after he finishes destroying the world.
When it came to "time is infinite" quote, this can simply be referring to his ability to wander through all these worlds outside the one they currently are, so when it speaks of time being infinite, this is just him eternally transitioning through these worlds until he finds all the fragments of Lucia's soul in order to put her back together, NOT regarding the actual space-time being infinite time.
This can also be interpreted as such via Setto's reply here;
is it that Velda has infinite time to do what he needs? Or is time itself (as in the timeline) infinite? timeline is not mentioned anywhere but i think it's the latter the particular phrase is literally just "time is infinite and so is his lifespan" which makes sense in the larger context of...
Now referring to this, this has never been the case of Rimuru exiting All of time.
Not only was it repeatedly stated to be the "End" of time on various lines, but following this "all time" statement, was this;
――Chrono Saltation――
The Ultimate Super Space-Time Magic that forced the target to leap to space where time had ended.
...
However, it would cause drastic changes if he multiplied it.
Bathed in the flow of all time and received the repulsion of the space that tried to fix itself, the target was sent to beyond time.
To the “End of Time and Space”―― A void in the far off future where the end of time and space overlapped.
If he couldn’t defeat him, he only had to put off the issue――That was the decision Yuuki had made.
Rimuru was able to rival him, or maybe even surpass him. To fight head-on against a super-level being like Rimuru would be sheer stupidity. The answer to that was sending Rimuru to the future and destroying the world in that chance.
At the very end, the difficulty of the game to destroy the world, that used to be boring and easy, jumped up insanely, but Yuuki only felt happiness now that he had cleared it.
Yuuki was very happy and showed a smile from the bottom of his heart.
◆◆◆
The Time Stop was canceled at the same moment as Rimuru disappeared.
Without waiting for anything, those left behind moved all together.
Most of them didn’t understand exactly what had happened in front of their eyes.
However, the fact that Rimuru had disappeared was the only thing they could understand clearly.
「Well, I had sent the biggest obstacle for a trip to the future. This is a checkmate, right?」
It stated multiple times to send Rimuru to the "future", not beyond time. But obviously a hypertimeline might fix that by using the hypertimeline's future, not the actual space-time's future. However, with how the lines are stating, there's no implication of a higher order timeline.
《That’s right. We were hurled to beyond space and time due to Yuuki’s attack. The lifespan of the planet has already ended a long time ago, but the collapse of the world hasn’t yet been reached. From that I deduced, Yuuki probably couldn’t destroy the world itself yet. When he was at the phase where he destroyed the celestial bodies as well as the space-time continuum, I presume that Yuuki’s lifespan had come to an end. However, I can’t judge whether his wish was fulfilled or not. After that, we wandered around as we drifted in the space and I witnessed the end of this universe.》
Can either refer to beyond or the far reaches of space-time. Which would greatly differ depending on the translation. So we will need someone to help translate this.
Now to back up that it is the same timeline that Rimuru and Ciel were sent back into, it's the accumulation of turn null energy during the time that the "end of the universe" came to be.
――I can’t understand what Ciel-san is saying at all……
“I witnessed the end of the universe?” What is she talking about…..?
Rather, there’s no way we can be alive in a situation like that.
If you want to lie, come up with a more believable one――So I thought, but I remembered Ciel-san never lies.
She deceives me sometimes, but she didn’t lie as I simply misunderstood――Or rather, she made me do so――That’s all of it.
That means this is really the end of the world!?
《Yes, that’s right. Then, I’ll get straight to the point, what will master do after this?》 What will I do?
《Because a long time has passed,『Turn Null』has accumulated an enormous amount of energy. Although Veldanava is said to have lost『Turn Null』by creating the world, there’s no problem since Rimuru-sama has『Imaginary Space』. Because『Imaginary Space』has an infinite capacity, it can’t be filled up. However, it has already been filled with enough energy that even recreating the world tens of thousands of times is possible. Additionally, it’s possible to reproduce the memories of those connected to Rimuru-sama and intentionally create a world that’s nearly identical from before. What will you do?》
...
Brief as usual, her response was stated matter-of-factly.
However, I just woke up a little while ago, but Ciel had been waiting for me to wake up for countless years.
An unconcealable joy seeped out from her voice as she responded to my order. In order to not betray that feeling, I choose the world that I think is the right one.
I’m not going to lose anymore.
Well then, let’s end this quickly.
At the same time I thought so; I used Time Warp and warped to the past.
So if Turn null accumulated energy during the time rimuru was sent to the "end of the universe" which is also the same place as the "end of time and space" which is also the "far off future" then all of this would be provably the same. If Rimuru was sent through infinite time, there should be no reason there is a limit to what rimuru can recreate using turn null. Since if an infinite amount of time passes, especially if he's sent beyond infinite time, then he should at least have an infinite amount of energy which can make an infinite amount of worlds.
So it would then be fine to conclude that the "far off future" is regarding the universe they were within, not some outside place. This would all prove that Rimuru was sent to the end of the timeline, a place where the universe ceased all functionality, similarly to the heat death theory that still persists even in the light novel. This is proven since it is talking about the "stars" lifespans being exhausted and referring back to entropy, a key piece in thermodynamics, which adds validity to the heat death theory, and the heat death theory is grounded on the idea that time is still around.
So terms like "beyond time" are not exactly what it means literally, since there are multiple instances of the place that rimuru was sent to, still being within time itself just at the "End" of time.
So this should all prove that Rimuru never left the actual space-time for there to be a reason why the space-time itself has ended prior to rimuru being sent to the end of space and time. And this should also conclude that when it stated "time was infinite" it was not referring to the timeline of the space-time, but Velda's journey through worlds and trying to bide time to eventually put together Lucia's soul.
Infinite Lifespan?
When it comes to Yuuki's lifespan, I still think the damning contradictory event of his lifespan ending naturally, is still a problem within the narrative. Since you didn't showcase that Yuuki has an infinite lifespan, just that it isn't of concern for him, which could in fact allude to the idea that he DOES have an infinite lifespan.
With my prior section, I believe I noted enough to conclude that Rimuru was within the same space-time that yuuki was within when being sent away via Chrono-saltation. So the issue then becomes, where is yuuki and the others? Perhaps they are alive and just drifting in the empty void of the "end of space and time" or maybe they all died due to not surviving space. But we know one thing, Yuuki's lifespan ended.
I presume that Yuuki’s lifespan had come to an end
Yuuki doesn't actually have an infinite lifespan, nor do anyone else, just that their lifespans are just exaggerated to an extent that they cannot measure.
They simply did not survive the death of the universe.
Yuuki exhausted his life by destroying the celestial bodies. OR (with less credibility using my prior section)
An infinite amount of time past within the space-time which subjected anyone with an infinite lifespan to perish.
Considering my first section discredits number 4, I will leave that out for obvious reason.
Considering that spiritual life forms are beings that don't require typical biological needs, I would heavily lean away from number 2.
So that leaves us with 1 and 3. Now, If we confirm that infinite lifespans are not exaggerated, like in wuxia novels, then it would be number 3. But let me showcase something;
Furthermore, there were Ruminas’ protégés: the ‘Seven Celestial Sages’.
These were apparently human Paladins who had evolved.
They were not Vampires, but their lifespans were greatly increased making them demi Spirit Forms.
Paladins were fostered in the Holy City of Ruberius, and then deployed in combat by the Western Saints Church.
After overcoming many of life-threatening situations, one of them would evolve in rare occasions.
When humans evolved, they became Sages.
It seems like when these humans evolved to demi spirit forms, their lifespans "greatly increased" but didn't become infinite.
So the question is whether or not this same concept applies to every spirit life-form. Well if it did, where are they?
Huh……?
Ciel asked me as such, which made me speechless.
Yes, if this place was the “End of Time and Space”, that meant Benimaru, Shuna, my friends in Tempest, Diablo and the other Demons, Guy, Ramiris, Milim and the other Demon Lords, all the people that I loved, all of them didn’t exist anywhere in this world. I finally understood that.
In other words, I lost to Yuuki.
「Bullshit!! Damn it!!! Doesn’t this mean I completely lost to Yuuki!!」
《No, that’s incorrect. Yuuki couldn’t even destroy Rimuru-sama.》 But, I couldn’t protect those I loved.
Therefore, it’s meaningless. There’s no meaning if I’m the only who survived. Even if I can recreate nearly the same memories and even if their DNA is exactly the same, can I really say that they are “them”?
Can I interact with them in the same way as always before if I created them with my own hands?
DAMN IT, SHIT!!
This clearly showcases that none of these supposed "infinite lifespan" beings, are within the "end of time and space" which is simply the "distant future". So wouldn't this contradict any "infinite" lifespan and instead support that the "infinite" part is hyperbole and simply suggesting an extensively long life?
With my prior section, that's what it would mean, unless number 2 is correct and none of them can survive the heat death of the universe.
With number 3, then you would have to undoubtedly concede the idea that Yuuki perished prior to the end of time and space, meaning an "infinite lifespan" was never able to run its full course. This would mean, that you cannot use Yuuki's lifespan to reinforce the idea that the timeline was infinite.
So If we exclude number 4 as being a possibility, all interpretations would discredit the space-time having "infinite time" via "infinite lifespans".
But what if we conclude that Yuuki DID in fact destroy the space-time. If Yuuki did do so, he would've destroyed the space-time that his life was processed through in the timeline. If he managed to survive that, then that showcases a contradiction in trying to make time infinite via his lifespan since he exists after the collapse of the space-time. Since he must be able to exist outside the space-time, then his lifespan ending is still a clear sign that it cannot be infinite since this supposed "hypertimeline" would then exist allowing his lifespan to continue, since he hasn't gone through infinite time yet.
If yuuki died when the space-time ceased, that would still debunk infinite time using Yuuki's life since the space-time didn't go through the entire timeline but was cut short due to yuuki destroying it.
Either case ends in the same result, the contradiction that discredits Yuuki's lifespan being used to justify that the timeline is infinite.
Plus, Yuuki has Beelzebuth, which can swallow the Universe along with its concept of time if let run amok (though again, lifespan limitations mean Yuuki would have already died by the time Beelzebub swallowed the World-Line/continuum, and not go any further.
Beezlebuth doesn't swallow the concept of time, the comparison is about it's comsuption of negative energy;
<<It’s simple. In a way, this is similar to Beelzebuth. The problem isn’t the release of positive energy, it’s the disappearance negative energy. However, the way of dealing with it is the same. As energy has a direction, you just need to control that…>>
It's just comparing the energy direction needing to be controlled. The "concept of time" stuff is also only speaking the fact that one wouldn't be able to notice time because expansion = progression.
If all progress ceases, then the idea of how time works would obviously change. It similar to if a person lives inside of a cave when they used to live outside. The person would stop understanding the concept of day and night since those things are never going to matter inside of a cave. It would be the same situation, time ceases to move therefor people lose the sense of time itself. Not that the concept of time as a fundamental of reality ceases.
Before gaining Yog Sothoth (Reading Steiner), she could only travel to the normal past via her skill <time Travelled>. Now, however, after gaining Yog Sothoth, she can even travel to other World-lines.
Author’s Note
Explanation time. I wrote it and was confused.
I notice that the consistency was sketchy and I couldn’t write freely when I began to think about the concept of time. Though it almost got mixed up several times, but is it alright?
I pray that there will be no fatal mistakes found in there.
This time Chloe succeeded in moving the World-Line!
Isn’t the World-Line volatility change by about 1%?
By the way, she acquired Reading Steiner too this time!
Chapter 125
All this says is Chloe succeeded in moving THE world-line.
This is essentially referring to the world-lines in Steins:Gate, clearly as the link is to steins gate. The issue with trying to imply that she goes to other word lines, presupposes those world-lines are outside of the space-time she is currently within, which is not the case. It's is abundantly clear that it takes heavy inspiration from steins gate which would mean that it is 1 space-time with multiple possible histories.
This is all regarding the same universe/space-time and nothing about it implies different space-times. This would mean, that the "World-line" that is active is contained within the same space-time, meaning there is not hypertimeline needed since it can function within a singular timeline, just switching out which one is active, but in Chloe's case, reverting back to the past and entering a new history.
And since in steins gate, other world-lines do no physically exist until they are move to the main world-line, this should also be attributed to Tensura since Fuse is taking heavy inspiration from it, and there's nothing to contradict that being the case. So world line would just refer to the time-line, like it can be translated as such;
Author’s Note
Explanation time. I wrote it and was confused.
I notice that the consistency was sketchy and I couldn’t write freely when I began to think about the concept of time.
Though it almost got mixed up several times, but is it alright?
I pray that there will be no fatal mistakes found in there. This time Chloe succeeded in moving the world’s time-line!
Isn’t the world’s time-line volatility change by about 1%?
By the way, she acquired Reading Steiner too this time!
I fail to see any reason to conclude a hypertimeline is required to make that make sense.
I think I covered everything, and I will not be arguing further since I'd rather not clog up this CRT with useless debates, so I'll only respond to things that directly contradict the evidence I put forward.
Author’s Note
Explanation time. I wrote it and was confused.
I notice that the consistency was sketchy and I couldn’t write freely when I began to think about the concept of time.
Though it almost got mixed up several times, but is it alright?
I pray that there will be no fatal mistakes found in there. This time Chloe succeeded in moving the world’s time-line!
Isn’t the world’s time-line volatility change by about 1%?
By the way, she acquired Reading Steiner too this time!
