Astral_Trinity439
He/Him- 4,403
- 6,403
Introduction
Hello everyone, hope y'all are doing well. Since the previous CRT was kinda And, just a heads up so it doesn't turn into the same thing as the last CRT, PLEASE avoid arguing if you don't even know the standards of vsbw on infinites and tier 1.... You're not helping, really.
As always, do not make derailing posts that have nothing to contribute to the thread itself. Do not engage in toxic behavior in anyone!
Tables of Contents
Hyper Timeline
Ah yes, the topic that derailed the entire
Well, for starters, since "some" people were having too much fun trolling, (Which I hope that trolling is left in that thread and not this one), I'll specify what All of Time is.
All of Time
Well, for starters, "All Time" is Infinite.
Something thrown outside All Time is considered to be "swallowed by the space time continuum"
Question: Is the "infinite lifespan" thing consistent? (Outside of Hypertimelime related feats and before chapter 248)
Answer: Yes. Here are a few examples, not just from Yuuki(a spiritual lifeform) but even lesser stages like semi spiritual lifeforms.
Summary: Yuuki's lifespan being infinite is NOT inconsistent with the series, it's a supporting proof that there's a hypertimeline.
Hyper-Time
Well, basically, "Dimensions/Worlds/Universes" (i.e., what encompasses the World-lines) have their own Hypertime.
For starters, here's a plot line:
Next up, even outside "All of Time", outside the Space Time Continuum, Time still flowed and Space still expanded and both ONLY stopped after reaching the end of Space and Time.
Some people brought up that in the previous CRT that this "time" could just be a parallel time, not a hyper time. Well, here's the thing, that's just not possible when it comes to Time & Infinities.
So, in essence, yes, this higher "Time" is by default infinite and Orthodonal due to its nature.
Similar cases where hypertimelines have been accepted are:
Question: Does Yuuki destroying the continuum or not even matter?
Answer: No. No, whether Yuuki destroyed the Continuum or not does not matter, as Rimuru's still outside the continuum regardless while experiencing hyper time.
Question: How plausible is it that he destroyed the Continuum?
Answer: Very plausible. Yuuki could use the energy he had absorbed from others' combined attack (which scales to the hypertimeline "world") to destroy everything. The only problem is his lifespan, which is only immortal in the 4D sense (yes, higher degree of immortality type 1 is a thing based on temporal dimensions).
The statement in chapter 247 is confirmed by Rimuru in chapter 248 AFTER he returned from EoST AFTER witnessing the end of worlds that Yuuki couldn't destroy.
Plus, Yuuki has Beelzebuth, which can swallow the Universe along with its concept of time if let run amok (though again, lifespan limitations mean Yuuki would have already died by the time Beelzebub swallowed the World-Line/continuum, and not go any further.
Question: Time is infinite, so how could it end (how could Yuuki's lifespan end)?
Answer: This is a question that makes me wonder if the person asking it is either unknowledgeable on our tiering system or committing the ******** behavior of derailing + arguing for the sake of arguing without any substance.
Fortunately, I have a rather positive assumption always and will assume it's the prior, which I did in the last CRT and clarified. But since not everyone is reading both CRTs (ik y'all's asses are lazy ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°) so I'll clarify this here again.
We have higher Infinities in vsbw:
vsbattles.fandom.com
In fact, that's why Hypertimes even exist, so saying it's an anti feat to Infinite time is like saying "time is not infinite cuz Hypertime exists". Or "this house is not the biggest in town cuz the town exists outside it" in plain English. That is, using two completely unrelated points and trying to merge them into a contradictory counter that debunks itself.
Also, if someone asks this question again (especially a few user), I will completely ignore you as instructed by the staff in private. So don't make it hard on either of us and do not troll unless you wanna get reported.
All of Time
Well, for starters, "All Time" is Infinite.
AND something outside All Time is considered beyond Time itself.
Something thrown outside All Time is considered to be "swallowed by the space time continuum"
Question: Is the "infinite lifespan" thing consistent? (Outside of Hypertimelime related feats and before chapter 248)
Answer: Yes. Here are a few examples, not just from Yuuki(a spiritual lifeform) but even lesser stages like semi spiritual lifeforms.
(Immortality here means "hard to kill")
There are more examples but these should be enough.
Summary: Yuuki's lifespan being infinite is NOT inconsistent with the series, it's a supporting proof that there's a hypertimeline.
Hyper-Time
Well, basically, "Dimensions/Worlds/Universes" (i.e., what encompasses the World-lines) have their own Hypertime.
For starters, here's a plot line:
- Before gaining Yog Sothoth (Reading Steiner), she could only travel to the normal past via her skill <time Travelled>. Now, however, after gaining Yog Sothoth, she can even travel to other World-lines.
Next up, even outside "All of Time", outside the Space Time Continuum, Time still flowed and Space still expanded and both ONLY stopped after reaching the end of Space and Time.
From this, we can deduce a few things in summary:
- Rimuru was sent outside All Time, beyond Time. It was done by reverse Time Stop, and since we assume the default range of that is Low 2-C, and that “All of Time" is Low 2-C as well, which means Rimuru HAS TO BE thrown a Low 2-C distance away.
- Yuuki's Lifespan (which is infinite) would have ended in the "future" that Rimuru was transferred to. Time (which is also infinite, and equal to Yuuki's lifespan) would have ended as well.
- This means whether Yuuki destroyed the Continuum or not, the hypertimeline is still necessary.
- Chloe's ability (allowing her to time travel to different world-lines) didn't work because Time wasn't flowing.
- Chrono Saltation is called "Super-Space-Time Magic", where in super is synonym with hyper.
Some people brought up that in the previous CRT that this "time" could just be a parallel time, not a hyper time. Well, here's the thing, that's just not possible when it comes to Time & Infinities.
Time & Infinities (Theoretical Model)
You see, when we reach a point where "Time" of X ends whereas Time of Y hasn't ended as a timeline, it necessitates an orthgonal view of Time. I like to call this Infinite Unsynchronity.
Take, for example, two lines X and Y. Two Continuums. Two timelines. They have different flows of Time, but only finitely such. That is, let's say 5 years pass in X, then 10 years or 1 year would pass in Y. A finite difference. You can visualize these continuums as an acute angle between the two continuums.
Now, you see, both are flowing towards the X axis direction. Both have the same direction of time, essentially. Therefore, no matter how much time difference (finite) there is, the "end of time" (passage of eternity) will always be the same in the end. It's like how adding 1 to Infinity doesn't make it more than infinity (countable of course).
On the other hand, in orthogonality, we can imagine two continuums X and Y, we can imagine it as a Right-angle.
As you can see, the right angle is akin to that x-y axes themselves (which are orthogonal to each other). That is, no matter how much time passes on X, no matter how "long" X is, the entire x-axis is only a single instance, a single moment in time, a single point, on Y axis. So, even if, let's say, infinite time passes along X, even then, Y would remain as is. Because X and Y are orthogonal to each other.
Another easy way is to put it like this.
We know Rimuru was outside the continuum, yet he was drifting in some "space" under the flow of time. Well, this particular case of Space refers to the 5-Dimensional Space (albeit not significant or tierable)
Therefore, if, let's say, some form Time flows over that dimension too, it would by default have to be a different orthogonal direction. And since we assume by default that Time is infinite, it means if the higher dimension is temporal in nature instead of spatial, we by default assume it's significant.
Tier 2A : eternal/infinite timeline addition.
So as far I've read the Tier 2 in here on vs battle, I find out that it's divided on the basis of number of containers (Spacetime continuum) rather than very basic snapshots amount because If we go with amount of snapshots than it will all be equated to aleph 1 and division will not be possible...vsbattles.com
So, in essence, yes, this higher "Time" is by default infinite and Orthodonal due to its nature.
Similar cases where hypertimelines have been accepted are:
Question: Does Yuuki destroying the continuum or not even matter?
Answer: No. No, whether Yuuki destroyed the Continuum or not does not matter, as Rimuru's still outside the continuum regardless while experiencing hyper time.
Question: How plausible is it that he destroyed the Continuum?
Answer: Very plausible. Yuuki could use the energy he had absorbed from others' combined attack (which scales to the hypertimeline "world") to destroy everything. The only problem is his lifespan, which is only immortal in the 4D sense (yes, higher degree of immortality type 1 is a thing based on temporal dimensions).
The statement in chapter 247 is confirmed by Rimuru in chapter 248 AFTER he returned from EoST AFTER witnessing the end of worlds that Yuuki couldn't destroy.
Plus, Yuuki has Beelzebuth, which can swallow the Universe along with its concept of time if let run amok (though again, lifespan limitations mean Yuuki would have already died by the time Beelzebub swallowed the World-Line/continuum, and not go any further.
Question: Time is infinite, so how could it end (how could Yuuki's lifespan end)?
Answer: This is a question that makes me wonder if the person asking it is either unknowledgeable on our tiering system or committing the ******** behavior of derailing + arguing for the sake of arguing without any substance.
Fortunately, I have a rather positive assumption always and will assume it's the prior, which I did in the last CRT and clarified. But since not everyone is reading both CRTs (ik y'all's asses are lazy ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°) so I'll clarify this here again.
We have higher Infinities in vsbw:
Set Theory Explanation Page
The following is an explanation of the upper bounds of this wiki's Tiering System, namely the parts encompassed by Low 1-A and above, although the concepts presented here do have great influence on the functionings of much lower tiers. For information on the primary measuring stick used to...
vsbattles.fandom.com
In fact, that's why Hypertimes even exist, so saying it's an anti feat to Infinite time is like saying "time is not infinite cuz Hypertime exists". Or "this house is not the biggest in town cuz the town exists outside it" in plain English. That is, using two completely unrelated points and trying to merge them into a contradictory counter that debunks itself.
Also, if someone asks this question again (especially a few user), I will completely ignore you as instructed by the staff in private. So don't make it hard on either of us and do not troll unless you wanna get reported.
Summary
First, Here is the cosmology blog:
Astral Trinity439/WN Cosmology Upgrade
vsbattles.fandom.com
Second, TL;DR
- World-Line: Low-2C
- World/Universe/Dimension: Low 1-C (5-D)
- Characters who scale wherever are:
- Yuuki: Low 2-C Destructive Capacity (Overtime), Low 1-C (5-D) Attack Potency
- There is a non-zero chance that Yuuki destroying the continuum, even over time, is considered not solid enough, so one may opt for a "possibilty Low 2-C destructive Capacity" instead. Note that this doesn't effect the 5D attack Potency ratings and 5D in general for Rimuru in any way.
- Combined attack (Diablo, Milim, Guy, True Dragons, Ramiris, and a lot more): Low 1-C (5-D)(said by Rimuru to be capable of destroying the world itself).
- For the sake of consistency, they won't get Low 1-C (5-D) destructive Capacity individually as they also have the same weakness as Yuuki, and will only have Low 1-C (5-D) Attack Potency.
- Beelzebub: Low 1-C (5-D) (absorbed the combined attack + Can reset the entire dimension depending on the user)
- Rimuru: Low 1-C (5-D)
- Yuuki: Low 2-C Destructive Capacity (Overtime), Low 1-C (5-D) Attack Potency
Counter Arguments & Responses
- Yuuki has only been said to have an infinite lifespan once. Isn't that a bit shaky?
- There's no proof that the hypertimeline (5D) was destroyed retroactively, and time not flowing is akin to a frozen river, not a river without water.
Yet that is not the case as not only the world end, but time stopped flowing because they reached the "end".
If one says "end" just means an edge and not beyond that edge, well, that would only be true if Chloe's time travel still worked, which it didn't. It stopped working, because there was no time flowing .
Time does not "stop flowing" at the end of a river. To begin with, a flowing river means that there's some "end" where the water is falling down (cease to exist). So an actual example would be that all the water from the source ended, all the water fell below, and the river became dry, not frozen.
To top that off, we have this extremely blatant WoG from the reviews of chapter 248 just a few hours (or minutes) after it was released (which means the author didn't forget anything and answered with everything still in his mind):
Unfortunately, there is no accepted translation as the tl for the staff thread is already pending since weeks ಥ‿ಥ
May a kind soul appear and translate it :slimepray:
In any case, what it says is that the "future" (of the hypertimeline) does not exist in the point Rimuru has reached. And neither does the past as Chloe's time travel doesn't work. IF it was like a frozen river, both the past and the future would still exist, but that's clearly not the case here.
- What about the "End according to the Law of Entropy"?
Heat death of the universe - Wikipedia
Spontaneous Inflation and the Origin of the Arrow of Time
We suggest that spontaneous eternal inflation can provide a natural explanation for the thermodynamic arrow of time, and discuss the underlying assumptions and consequences of this view. In the absence of inflation, we argue that systems coupled to gravity usually evolve asymptotically to the...
arxiv.org
In particular, I think this video also explains pretty well how heat death is just a "state" of the Universe, not the ultimatum end where we reach "Emptiness", where space stops expanding or time stops flowing.
Second off, it is explained in the later chapters how end of the universe means returning to 0, not something like entropy's heat death.
Also, once again, what Fuse said above; Entropy doesn't have anything to do with the flow of time, so as per Fuse said, the future does not exist at EoST, meaning the "in accordance to the law of entropy" probably refers to something else. And given all the LARGE amounts of proof for space time stuff (this whole CRT), I think that entropy statement could be considered an outlier.
We don't even have any other WN source material to explain entropy (Fuse did not mention it in his WN impressions page across the 1400 pages ಥ‿ಥ), so best ignore it as an outlier.
FRIENDLY REMINDER FROM YOUR FELLOW WANKER, ASTRAL: PLEASE READ THE OP FULLY TO COMFIRM YOUR DOUBTS. IF YOU BRING UP A POINT THAT HAS ALREADY BEEN CLARIFIED IN THE OP, YOU WILL BE IGNORED AS WE DON'T WANT TO REPEAT THE SAME YAPPING SESSION AS LAST TIME. thank you.
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Hope you had fun reading!
See you next time~ (＾3＾♪
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