Who will get dunked on: Susie vs Sans (Deltarune vs Undertale) [ 8-9-0 ]

[Qurbonboev]

Susie dissatisfied with Sans behaviour in Toriel house, is trying to teach him some manners.

Chapter 4 key is used
Susie is 7-B, Sans is High 8-C
Susie LS is Class G, Sans is Peak Human physically, and Class M with abilities
Location is DW inside Last Corridor
Speed equalized

Unfunny skeleton:
@Monsters_fight , @ShionAH , @Anonymous_Learner, @Ztesrxgdfjcvgkbh
@TheOrangeGuy09 , @Catbowtie , @CastoriceTheFifth , @Bruhtelho , @Thunderman101

Dragon:
@StrymULTRA , @LittleGuy99 , @Qurbonboev , @Poketmonsrs , @Redite250 , @koopa3144 , @Franstel , @BestMGQScalerEver


Toriel stops the battle:

 

[Monsters_fight]

Funny Skeleton*
Sans FRA

 

[StrymULTRA]

Susie already dealt with similar Danmaku with any of the secret bosses (even doing canonically no hits against TRK), and her LS would trivialize Blue Mode.

Not to mention that she can always heal with OKHeal and items, and her ranged attacks would give an edge against Sans' IA eventually. Voting her.

 

[LittleGuy99]

Susie FRA

 

[ShionAH]

Sans danmaku is far better than any of Deltarune’s bosses and additionally his attacks are lethal, Susie doesn’t have flight as far as I know so she wouldn’t be able to handle the Telekinesis and Blue Mode because it targets her soul and she needs leverage to use her LS

I don’t even see Susie surviving the first move as she is easily the least skilled and calm out of the group, after the first slam into being stabbed by the bones I doubt she would be able to handle the bone ladder and then the gaster blasters all of which she has NO knowledge or information on

(I am not saying she isn’t skilled btw, she is less skilled compared to Frisk and Flowey who both also has resets to KNOW THE FUTURE yet died to Sans)

 

[StrymULTRA]

Sans danmaku is far better than any of Deltarune’s bosses

Lmao

his attacks are lethal

Like every other DR character what?

Susie doesn’t have flight

Neither does Frisk

as I know so she wouldn’t be able to handle the Telekinesis and Blue Mode because it targets her soul and she needs leverage to use her LS

Frisk didn't do that either, and besides TK is just Gravity Manipulation, something her Class G LS would take care of.

I don’t even see Susie surviving the first move as she is easily the least skilled and calm out of the group

The Gerson fight:

after the first slam into being stabbed by the bones I doubt she would be able to handle the bone ladder and then the gaster blasters all of which she has NO knowledge or information on

She literally can no hit the Roaring Knight and somehow Sans is an impossible task?

 

[ShionAH]

Neither does Frisk

Yeah.

Frisk didn't do that either, and besides TK is just Gravity Manipulation, something her Class G LS would take care of.

Telekinesis specifically needs you to have flight AND lifting strenght advantage, otherwise when your opponent lifts you then there woıld be no leverage for you to use. Even then its dubious if it would work against the soul manipulation Sans is using

The Gerson fight: She literally can no hit the Roaring Knight and somehow Sans is an impossible task?

Frisk and Flowey both of which fought various monsters upon monsters, have insane experience due to doing EVERYTHING and even use the Resets to KNOW THE FUTURE yet they couldn’t no hit Sans at all and died many times.

 

[Anonymous_Learner]

Sans FRA

 

[StrymULTRA]

Telekinesis specifically needs you to have flight AND lifting strenght advantage, otherwise when your opponent lifts you then there woıld be no leverage for you to use. Even then its dubious if it would work against the soul manipulation Sans is using

Even if true, I cannot see why Susie can't just adapt to it.

Frisk and Flowey both of which fought various monsters upon monsters, have insane experience due to doing EVERYTHING and even use the Resets to KNOW THE FUTURE yet they couldn’t no hit Sans at all and died many times.

It just sounds to me they just suck compared to the Fun Gang, then.

And yes, they literally can no hit the Roaring Knight, none in Undertale even comes close to this level of skill, and I don't see anyone in Undertale getting close to this.

 

[Eden_Warlock99]

Frisk and Flowey both of which fought various monsters upon monsters, have insane experience due to doing EVERYTHING and even use the Resets to KNOW THE FUTURE yet they couldn’t no hit Sans at all and died many times.

To know the future, they gotta actually experience it first, so like, they obviously are going to die a few times to sans lol

 

[ShionAH]

Even if true, I cannot see why Susie can't just adapt to it.

She prolly can, I just think she dies before that.

It just sounds to me they just suck compared to the Fun Gang, then.

Well... I actually think that sounds like the Roaring Knight sucks compared to Sans

To know the future, they gotta actually experience it first, so like, they obviously are going to die a few times to sans lol

"a few times" its like way over 15 deaths for Frisk and enough deaths for Flowey to be traumatized. Doing that to an opponent who should be able to learn all your moves by seeing the future each time they die? Pretty impressive

 

[Qurbonboev]

Frisk and Flowey both of which fought monsters upon monsters, have insane experience due to doing EVERYTHING and even use the Resets to KNOW THE FUTURE yet they couldn’t no hit Sans at all and died many times.

Flowey is more than two times slower than Sans. Frisk is somewhat slower, and doesn't have anything besides simple swing. Remind you, how dangerous is normal Susie melee attack?
And btw, there is no evidence that Frisk canonically dies to Sans

 

[StrymULTRA]

Well... I actually think that sounds like the Roaring Knight sucks compared to Sans

You kinda don't tell why. Sans attacks become super easy once you get used to them, TRK attacks have the advantage of using RNG unlike Sans and being decently faster than the SOUL's movement.

"a few times" its like way over 15 deaths for Frisk and enough deaths for Flowey to be traumatized. Doing that to an opponent who should be able to learn all your moves by seeing the future each time they die? Pretty impressive

They just look like noobs compared to Susie, then. Even with time resets they performed far worse than she did against similar opponents, is this what you're saying?

 

[StrymULTRA]

And btw, there is no evidence that Frisk canonically dies to Sans

TBF Undertale has no real canon, either, it's a mix of everything we can do.

Frisk can no hit everything just like they die to everything, we got even dialogues for not using SAVEs even once.

 

[StrymULTRA]

Frisk and Flowey both of which fought various monsters upon monsters, have insane experience due to doing EVERYTHING and even use the Resets to KNOW THE FUTURE yet they couldn’t no hit Sans at all and died many times.

Oh yeah, forgot this.

You do realize that Frisk can easily no hit everything at the first try too, right? It's one of the reasons why we accept their feat of dodging Hyper Goner as Immeasurable speed in the first place.

 

[ShionAH]

Flowey is more than two times slower than Sans.

I don’t think she is that much slower compared to San’s attacks, I think that’s more about his reactions

And btw, there is no evidence that Frisk canonically dies to Sans

There is dialogues about each of your deaths, its canonical.

You kinda don't tell why. Sans attacks become super easy once you get used to them

Exactly. Susie doesn’t have the ways of getting “used to them” and even then Flowey and Frisk both of which SHOULD have gotten used to it died many times against Sans

TRK attacks have the advantage of using RNG unlike Sans and being decently faster than the SOUL's movement.

Trk?

They just look like noobs compared to Susie, then. Even with time resets they performed far worse than she did against similar opponents, is this what you're saying?

No. I am saying extremely experienced characters like Frisk and Flowey who killed various of monsters all across the underground and did literally everything who can also see the future of Sans’ attacks with Resets couldn’t no hit him and died many times. This is a impressive feat for Sans, not something Frisk and Flowey should be ashamed of

There is no reason why Roaring Knight would be equal to Sans, he has far better feats compared to him.

I think this is kinda problematic because how are we supposed to compare these two whole skill deal. I guess I’ll try to do it for Sans

Asgore was able to survive against the humans who are FAR more powerful than him despite being in the frontlines of the war, despite all of the army not even defeating one human Asgore himself defeated 6 of them. Undyne was personally trained by Asgore and is implied to have skills that could even surpass him. Undyne lost with no canonical resets and Asgore only has like one if I remember correctly? Flowey doesn’t seem to be afraid of Undyne either meaning he probably made quick work of her

Meanwhile Frisk died OVER 15 more times than both of those fights against Sans and Flowey was traumatized because of how much he died that just the MENTION of anything RELATED to Sans gets him annoyed

 

[StrymULTRA]

There is dialogues about each of your deaths, its canonical.

Just like there's also dialogue for never using a SAVE in a run...

Exactly. Susie doesn’t have the ways of getting “used to them” and even then Flowey and Frisk both of which SHOULD have gotten used to it died many times against Sans

Only Flowey, tbf, and we don't know much about his skill. Frisk's instead fully rely on the Player's.

Trk?

The Roaring Knight

No. I am saying extremely experienced characters like Frisk and Flowey who killed various of monsters all across the underground and did literally everything who can also see the future of Sans’ attacks with Resets couldn’t no hit him and died many times. This is a impressive feat for Sans, not something Frisk and Flowey should be ashamed of

Why would this be impressive compared to what the Fun Gang did?

There is no reason why Roaring Knight would be equal to Sans, he has far better feats compared to him.

What feats? What are you fanficing about?

Asgore was able to survive against the humans who are FAR more powerful than him despite being in the frontlines of the war, despite all of the army not even defeating one human Asgore himself defeated 6 of them. Undyne was personally trained by Asgore and is implied to have skills that could even surpass him. Undyne lost with no canonical resets and Asgore only has like one if I remember correctly? Flowey doesn’t seem to be afraid of Undyne either meaning he probably made quick work of her

We never see how the war even goes, we cannot use this as any evidence for skill unless you make fanfictions.

Meanwhile Frisk died OVER 15 more times than both of those fights against Sans and Flowey was traumatized because of how much he died that just the MENTION of anything RELATED to Sans gets him annoyed

Not in canon, though. Again, Frisk can clear runs without using SAVEs once, too.

 

[Redite250]

Susie already dealt with similar Danmaku with any of the secret bosses (even doing canonically no hits against TRK), and her LS would trivialize Blue Mode.

Not to mention that she can always heal with OKHeal and items, and her ranged attacks would give an edge against Sans' IA eventually. Voting her.

No hit Roaring Knight is purely a SOUL feat I'm not gonna lie.

 

[ShionAH]

Just like there's also dialogue for never using a SAVE in a run... Only Flowey, tbf, and we don't know much about his skill. Frisk's instead fully rely on the Player's.

There is not a single first time player who is one trying Sans, with the addition of Flowey's potrayal of him I think its very clear whats supposed to be conveyed. Flowey's skill is easily showcased through the fact that... he has done literally everything? Mf has more experience than ANY of the characters we are talking about except maybe Asgore.

Why would this be impressive compared to what the Fun Gang did?

Why would the Fun Gang be impressive compared to what Sans did?

What feats? What are you fanficing about?

I explained what feats.

We never see how the war even goes, we cannot use this as any evidence for skill unless you make fanfictions.

I am not making fanfictions, we know humans are EXTREMELY above the monsters that NOT A SINGLE ONE died. We also know Asgore was in the front lines and that he survived the war. That's more than enough to show how impressive he really is especially when he goes on to solo literally 6 save and reset humans alone

Not in canon, though. Again, Frisk can clear runs without using SAVEs once, too.

Why would something thats much more of an outlier be canon? We have many statements about Frisk saving.

I mean if we wanna play this game then I can say the same thing for Susie, the cough thing is one of the dialogues doesn't mean its the canon one and the achievement thing is a whole lotta of meta dialogue that I could even say the that us NOT getting the achievements is the canon route.

 

[LittleGuy99]

Susie has more skill; this is Susie in her prime who spent all 4 Chapters receiving little to no damage
She managed to dodge all of TRK's attacks, which are more overwhelming and faster than Sans's
She also reacted and dodged Gerson's attacks, who is much, much faster than her

Sans' attacks would be no problem for Susie, and she can heal herself to maximum HP with her magic
In any case, she has a better chance of winning with all her powers and abilities

 

[StrymULTRA]

No hit Roaring Knight is purely a SOUL feat I'm not gonna lie.

Yeah but Susie still scales so :#

Why would the Fun Gang be impressive compared to what Sans did?

I asked first, don't shift the burden on me.

I- I explained what feats.

Killing noobs who required multiple tries to beat people who are easy work compared to Deltarune top dogs isn't a feat.

I am not making fanfictions, we know humans are EXTREMELY above the monsters that NOT A SINGLE ONE died. We also know Asgore was in the front lines and that he survived the war. That's more than enough to show how impressive he really is especially when he goes on to solo literally 6 save and reset humans alone

But we have never seen how it worked out, it was literally off-screen. We cannot use it because it'd rely on an obscene amount of assumptions.

Why would something thats much more of an outlier be canon? We have many statements about Frisk saving.

Is Frisk fully dodging the Hyper Goner an outlier given that 90% of the players cannot dodge it?

I mean if we wanna play this game then I can say the same thing for Susie, the cough thing is one of the dialogues doesn't mean its the canon one and the achievement thing is a whole lotta of meta dialogue that I could even say the that us NOT getting the achievements is the canon route.

This would just mean that we just cannot use the "amount of times X killed the player" as evidence as there's no real defined canon here for what the Player does.

But even then, given that Susie still is comparable to the Player who did defeat Sans in the past and then dealt with the secret bosses, there's no real reason in telling why she cannot just adapt to him.

 

[Qurbonboev]

I don’t think she is that much slower compared to San’s attacks, I think that’s more about his reactions

Flowey speed compared to Sans is 4.86 vs 10. Sans in this matchup only enjoys unquantifiable reaction speed advantage, which barely compensates for Susie spatial hax.
Btw, Sans doesn't oneshot. Baseline soul hp is considered to be 20hp in UT matchup. But Susie hp is boosted both through Dark World shenanigans, and by her getting stronger each chapter. So she should have more than that. 230 hp if we go fully through this notion.

 

[Redite250]

Yeah but Susie still scales so :#

I really don't think so. Get her outside the battle box where I can't help her and see how long she lasts against the knight (she doesn't)

 

[StrymULTRA]

I really don't think so. Get her outside the battle box where I can't help her and see how long she lasts against the knight (she doesn't)

A knight that stopped to hold back and was one blitz-shotting even us at that point, though.

 

[ShionAH]

Susie has more skill; this is Susie in her prime who spent all 4 Chapters receiving little to no damage

No proof

which are more overwhelming and faster than Sans's

Wrong by feats

She also reacted and dodged Gerson's attacks, who is much, much faster than her

Isn't Gerson like... teaching her? I didn't finish the chapter yet but pretty sure they aren't exactly enemies to go all out like that.

Sans' attacks would be no problem for Susie, and she can heal herself to maximum HP with her magic

Guess who else could heal themselves to maximum HP? Sans deals insane damage in literal seconds when you do only one mistake

I asked first, don't shift the burden on me.

I showed you feats, you didn't other than circular scaling.

who are easy work compared to Deltarune top dogs isn't a feat.

Why? Asgore skill gaps Deltarune from what I can see ngl (Frisk solos Deltarune btw fr)

But we have never seen how it worked out, it was literally off-screen. We cannot use it because it'd rely on an obscene amount of assumptions.

No we don't?? All we need to know is how strong are his enemies? Did he fight them head on? Did he survive? And we know all three of these AND we also know he beat 6 resetting humans all alone.

Is Frisk fully dodging the Hyper Goner an outlier given that 90% of the players cannot dodge it?

Is there any statements that potrays it that way? No.

This would just mean that we just cannot use the "amount of times X killed the player" as evidence as there's no real defined canon here for what the Player does.

Yet you are using that one dialogue of "no hit" to say they no hit the Knight, that doesn't seem fair now does it?

But even then, given that Susie still is comparable to the Player who did defeat Sans in the past and then dealt with the secret bosses, there's no real reason in telling why she cannot just adapt to him.

Do we know that the Player did the genocide route in the past? Even then I don't know if that scaling works as the Player could have taken a billion tries

 

[LittleGuy99]

No proof

Too bad for you, because Susie's feats are on her profile, so... Susie demolishes Sans

 

[ShionAH]

Too bad for you, because Susie's feats are on her profile, so... Susie demolishes Sans

 

[Qurbonboev]

I really don't think so. Get her outside the battle box where I can't help her and see how long she lasts against the knight (she doesn't)

Susie dodging sneak attack, and dodging attack of SoJ in full darkness. Both against opponents with similar speed, unlike Sans who faced only slower opponents.

Btw, Sans doesn't oneshot. Baseline soul hp is considered to be 20hp in UT matchup. But Susie hp is boosted both through Dark World shenanigans, and by her getting stronger each chapter. So she should have more than that. 230 hp if we go fully through this notion.

Kinda funny that Susie is among the people with highest Soul HP that Sans can face.

Isn't Gerson like... teaching her? I didn't finish the chapter yet but pretty sure they aren't exactly enemies to go all out like that.

Only thing he holds back is damage, not other things, like danmaku complexity. Dude routinely perception blitzes her just for fun.

 

[StrymULTRA]

Isn't Gerson like... teaching her? I didn't finish the chapter yet but pretty sure they aren't exactly enemies to go all out like that.

This is a non-factor, the quality of the Danmaku is what matters.

Guess who else could heal themselves to maximum HP? Sans deals insane damage in literal seconds when you do only one mistake

...so can anyone in Deltarune.

I showed you feats, you didn't other than circular scaling.

What circular scaling, lil man?

Asgore skill gaps Deltarune from what I can see ngl

By what feats besides an off-screen """war"""?

Is there any statements that potrays it that way? No.

There is also no statement for Sans either.

 

[LittleGuy99]

Guess who else could heal themselves to maximum HP? Sans deals insane damage in literal seconds when you do only one mistake

The difference here is that Frisk eventually runs out of items, while Susie can use her magic if her items run out. Magic that is more effective
The damage wouldn't be a problem since, besides dodging it with relative ease, even if it does manage to hit her, it wouldn't be too bad thanks to her higher HP

 

[StrymULTRA]

Regardless, y'all, I cannot give full responses as I not home. Tomorrow I'll lock in fr.

 

[Eden_Warlock99]

Asgore only has like one if I remember correctly?

10+ actually

[Talk, if the protagonist dies to Asgore]

• You tell ASGORE that he's killed you once before.
• He nods sadly.

[Talk, if the protagonist dies to Asgore #2]

• You tell ASGORE that he's killed you twice before.
• He nods sadly.

[Talk, if the protagonist dies to Asgore #3]

• You tell ASGORE that he's killed you three times.
• He nods sadly.

[Talk, if the protagonist dies to Asgore #4]

• You tell ASGORE that he's killed you four times.
• He nods sadly.

[Talk, if the protagonist dies to Asgore #5]

• You tell ASGORE that he's killed you five times.
• He nods grievously.

[Talk, if the protagonist dies to Asgore #6]

• You tell ASGORE that he's killed you six times.
• He nods grievously.

[Talk, if the protagonist dies to Asgore #7]

• You tell ASGORE that he's killed you seven times.
• He nods grievously.

[Talk, if the protagonist dies to Asgore #8]

• You tell ASGORE that he's killed you eight times.
• He nods grievously.

[Talk, if the protagonist dies to Asgore #9]

• You tell ASGORE that he's killed you nine times.
• He nods grievously.

[Talk, if the protagonist dies to Asgore #10+]

• You tell ASGORE that he's killed you too many times to count.
• He nods pitifully.

TTAR died like 40+ times against Asgore, you can see them there.

 

[ShionAH]

...so can anyone in Deltarune.

no. no they don't.

What circular scaling, lil man?

You are saying Fun gang is "very skilled for no hitting TRK" (which isn't canon according to you now) but also saying TRK is hard because he could give the Fun gang a run for their money.

By what feats besides an off-screen """war"""?

That feat yeah!

There is also no statement for Sans either.

there are several of sans fight being hard

10+ actually

I actually didnt know this lol, anyways this upscales Asgore's skill which upscales Undyne's skill which upscales Flowey and Frisk's skill which upscales Sans' skill. Even better!!

MANNN I don't wanna debate this since its spoiling me I will reply when I finish the chapter soon if it isn't finished by then alr?

 

[LittleGuy99]

MANNN I don't wanna debate this since its spoiling me I will reply when I finish the chapter soon if it isn't finished by then alr?

Fair

 

[Qurbonboev]

I mean if we wanna play this game then I can say the same thing for Susie, the cough thing is one of the dialogues doesn't mean its the canon one and the achievement thing is a whole lotta of meta dialogue that I could even say the that us NOT getting the achievements is the canon route.

"NOT getting the achievements is the canon route". You missed the point. Argument is not that this is canon route. Only thing we are saying is that is not getting the trophies is something that is possible to achieve. Same way going through UT without saving or dodging Hyper Goner is possible. Difference is:
1. You can go through UT without saving if you already memorized all the patterns, so it's not skill feat.
2. Dodging Hyper Goner is possible only if Frisk has immeasurable speed.
3. Getting no trophies is possible only in your first try across all timelines, which requires respectable level of skill. Died one time? You get a trophy, and now never can complete that challenge, no matter how many times you erase timeline.

 

[ShionAH]

"NOT getting the achievements is the canon route". You missed the point. Argument is not that this is canon route. Only thing we are saying is that is not getting the trophies is something that is possible to achieve.

Dying to Sans like over 15 times is also something thats possible to achieve. So is getting hit and having the trophy. If you are ignoring UT’s skill feats and then taking this as proof for DT then you are being biased right now.

Be fair gang.

(This is my last reply, prolly going to be voting Sans if that wasn't crystal clear)

 

[Qurbonboev]

Dying to Sans like over 15 times is also something thats possible to achieve. So is getting hit and having the trophy. If you are ignoring UT’s skill feats and then taking this as proof for DT then you are being biased right now.

Be fair gang.

I am not going talking about feats, only about possibilities and constraints.
You can possibly die to any enemy in the game millions times over if you want to. It's indicates nothing on monster side. Only thing required for it being possible is enemy damaging you at all.
You can fail at completing that hardcore achievement by getting any trophy. But to have a possibility of completing it "ingame", you would need to have pretty cracked level of skill. Same way Frisk can fail to dodge Hyper Goner. But only way they can have possibility of dodging it in first place is by having immeasurable speed

 

[Poketmonsrs]

Seeing how Susie beats TRK no-hit, I’d say she survives Sans’ first attack, letting her do a Space manip attack. Does Sans’ IA do anything with that or does he just get hit and dies

 

[Qurbonboev]

Seeing how Susie beats TRK no-hit, I’d say she survives Sans’ first attack, letting her do a Space manip attack. Does Sans’ IA do anything with that or does he just get hit and dies

I would say that he can dodge several times out of 10

 

[Poketmonsrs]

I would say that he can dodge several times out of 10

Ig I’ll vote Sans due to being able to dodge and Susie not having a way to break the battle box the same way Chara/Frisk did.

I’d also like to know how exactly TP would work here. Cuz I’m pretty sure the Battle Board/Box is canon in UNDERTALE so there ain’t any Defend buttons nor grazing