A Saiyan faces a Demon: Son Gohan (DBZ) vs. Derieri (NNT)

[Makai641001]

Gohan can charge kamehameha or masenko, which would be pretty fast

Speed is equalized she’ll constantly be at H2H range

Goathan faced litteral world level threats that were going to kill everyone, was beaten and almostly killed so many times, so I don't think it would really affect him in battle so much.

It’s not a layered resistance feat, bro just wants to save his world

Also ki is a mental power and to control it you need a strong mind, so yeah.

Not a layered Resistance either.
Even Gowther’s fear manip could bypass Dreyfus will power (Which is stronger than any willpower in DB btw)

Skill is a pretty important thing in a fight(he easily can read all her movements and next moves) and Gohan is thousands times better than her in it.

You are clearly overrating his skills ngl.

Well, no. We saw so many times when characters were charging attacks while moving and dodging, just remember how Goku was charging kamehameha in a fight with Kefla or how Piccolo was dodging all Frost's attacks while charging Makankosanpo.

Their Z keys are VERY often immobile while charging said attacks.

Charging it also means not being able to parry, Derrieri has extended H2H range and can instantly increase it with darkness to avoid him dodging.

And he might get 3 tapped ngl

He might also just die from her Miasma’s passive effects

 

[Makai641001]

Voting Derrieri, Gohan has litteraly no resistance to her Fear hax, Poisons, has lower AP, Far Lower LS, all he has is range and overrated skills.

Derrieri is also a pretty skilled fighter and has better stamina, and can regen.

(Her rage power is also better than the Saiyans lol)

 

[YuseiDragon1]

gohan fra

 

[Mgebrat282]

Speed is equalized she’ll constantly be at H2H range

He would still have time to charge it

It’s not a layered resistance feat, bro just wants to save his world

It still says much about character's will power to fight with fear

Not a layered Resistance either.
Even Gowther’s fear manip could bypass Dreyfus will power (Which is stronger than any willpower in DB btw)

Nah, there were non character in sins who would destroy the world and kill everyone, via ki and courage it would still be enough

You are clearly overrating his skills ngl.

Being better than a master of all martial artists is MUCH better than being just a good warrior. That can't be even compared

Their Z keys are VERY often immobile while charging said attacks.

Tell me atleast one moment when they were still while charging and didn't dodge when it's needed(except moments for speedblitz or something like that)

Charging it also means not being able to parry, Derrieri has extended H2H range and can instantly increase it with darkness to avoid him dodging.

That's where skill advantages can help Gohan and give him win

He might also just die from her Miasma’s passive effects

Ki and courage(it's a part of ki btw)

 

[Estarossa0z]

Derieri fra

 

[Makai641001]

He would still have time to charge it

Not while getting ragdolled and with broken arms

It still says much about character's will power to fight with fear

There are still physical effects and downsides powerful enough to make the composite sword masters inside of excalibur tremble in fear and refuse to fight.

Nah, there were non character in sins who would destroy the world and kill everyone, via ki and courage it would still be enough

It’s not needed lol Dreyfus willpower is so strong that it affects reality.

Being better than a master of all martial artists is MUCH better than being just a good warrior. That can't be even compared

Here is what His skill section says:

Gifted: While Gohan is not as experienced in combat as his father, he is still a skilled martial artist and an intelligent tactician. Trained in fighting and schooled throughout his entire life since the earliest years of his childhood, Gohan is a clever fighter capable of creatively utilizing his abilities. As a scholar tutored throughout his life, Gohan is competent and insightful, having an in-depth understanding of the metaphysical mechanics of ki itself

Derrieri was able to beat down Meliodas (Genius in combat is above Gifted)

For the record Meliodas could face Excalibur and is narratively implied to be able to stomp it’s wielder Arthur.

Arthur also said (while having Chaos) that Meliodas could win the fight against him without taking any damage despite the latter having all of Excalibur skills.

Tell me atleast one moment when they were still while charging and didn't dodge when it's needed(except moments for speedblitz or something like that)

I don’t have a specific moment, still Piccolo was fully immobile while charging Makankosappo and needed Goku to hold Radditz in order to have time to kill him.

Derrieri is equal speed wise and have greater H2H range and have already cooked people far more skilled than Gohan

That's where skill advantages can help Gohan and give him win

Ki and courage(it's a part of ki btw)

Ki won’t help him against one of the most violent corrosion/poison that even bypasses shields

Just as skills isn’t enough to argue for Gohan winning.

If he pulls the big ki attack she will not only tank it but also regen

 

[Mgebrat282]

Not while getting ragdolled and with broken arms

He won't let this happen and he was still alive when his neck was snaped

There are still physical effects and downsides powerful enough to make the composite sword masters inside of excalibur tremble in fear and refuse to fight.

Those sword masters never faced threats that Gohan faced, so it can't be compared.

It’s not needed lol Dreyfus willpower is so strong that it affects reality.

It didn't affect reality, also still not as powerful to control ki on that lvl.

Here is what His skill section says:

Derrieri was able to beat down Meliodas (Genius in combat is above Gifted)

For the record Meliodas could face Excalibur and is narratively implied to be able to stomp it’s wielder Arthur.

Arthur also said (while having Chaos) that Meliodas could win the fight against him without taking any damage despite the latter having all of Excalibur skills.

Dude, you litteraly used Gohan's only page and for Derieri used other pages, when on her page she's just above average(I don't mean she's really only above average, but that this moment for you is a little strange). I watched Sins and Meliodas never was even close to master of all martial artists, especially in Goku's case when he became better than this lvl at 16.

I don’t have a specific moment, still Piccolo was fully immobile while charging Makankosappo and needed Goku to hold Radditz in order to have time to kill him.

Because Raditz was still strong and fast, so for him not to dodge, because he already did that, Goku needed to hold Raditz. Also it wasn't stated that Piccolo was immobile at that moment.

Derrieri is equal speed wise and have greater H2H range and have already cooked people far more skilled than Gohan

Already answered to that

Ki won’t help him against one of the most violent corrosion/poison that even bypasses shields

Ki increases person's abilites and is a spititual power, that includes bravery, so it would help(Goku survived powerful poison, and with bigger ki to control Gohan has to be more resilent)

If he pulls the big ki attack she will not only tank it but also regen

Gohan's kamehameha can reach 21 megafoe very quickly and go much higher, which is enough to one-shot Derieri so she won't regenerate anymore(Mid lvl regeneration)

 

[Kellex]

Derieri FRA

 

[Delusionaltx2]

So uh, three questions about derieri

What does getting mind haxed by the miasma do? Based on the scan in the profile it makes king slightly sweat a little and that's it.

How do demons get there opponents under an absolute contract?

Three how long are the characters fear haxed? Is it like something that just paralyzed them for a bit at first or is the paralysis a more long term effect?

 

[GAGGamerTheOverlord]

He would still have time to charge it

It still says much about character's will power to fight with fear

Nah, there were non character in sins who would destroy the world and kill everyone, via ki and courage it would still be enough

Being better than a master of all martial artists is MUCH better than being just a good warrior. That can't be even compared

Tell me atleast one moment when they were still while charging and didn't dodge when it's needed(except moments for speedblitz or something like that)

That's where skill advantages can help Gohan and give him win

Ki and courage(it's a part of ki btw)

Nothing you say justifies that she resists Derieri's layered fear, Derieri is good enough to hit Gohan (this martial master argument really seems absurd to me in this versus)

 

[Bossbrosish]

So, after what I could find on Miasma (There's not very much information on the internet regarding it), it seems to be something they can emit from their bodies, but have to actively decide to do so. Melascula can use Miasma to form attacks (I think?), and Meliodas expels it from his body when he loses control, from what I searched up. Of course, Derieri could use it, but I honestly don't think she would, as she seems more of a brawler type of character than one to use other techniques.

 

[Delusionaltx2]

So, after what I could find on Miasma (There's not very much information on the internet regarding it), it seems to be something they can emit from their bodies, but have to actively decide to do so. Melascula can use Miasma to form attacks (I think?), and Meliodas expels it from his body when he loses control, from what I searched up. Of course, Derieri could use it, but I honestly don't think she would, as she seems more of a brawler type of character than one to use other techniques.

Assuming she does though what would be its effects?

Does it just mind break people or just give people a slight chill for example?

 

[Bossbrosish]

Assuming she does though what would be its effects?

Does it just mind break people for example?

I assume this, but not sure if using it as an attack would cause the same effects:

• Status Effect Inducement, Disease Manipulation, Corrosion Inducement and Layered Mind Manipulation [1 layer] (Demon World is a polluted and corrupted land covered by miasma, all other clan's minds and bodies are prone to rot and decay. Miasma also causes others feel sick)

 

[Makai641001]

He won't let this happen and he was still alive when his neck was snaped

He does not have a choice to let it happen or not tho, he couldn’t use his broken arm against Cell

Those sword masters never faced threats that Gohan faced, so it can't be compared.

Power≠skill

It didn't affect reality, also still not as powerful to control ki on that lvl.

It does, his willpower litterally magically grants him resistances or powers from dead people

Dude, you litteraly used Gohan's only page and for Derieri used other pages, when on her page she's just above average(I don't mean she's really only above average, but that this moment for you is a little strange)

Cause Derrieri was completely able to beat the shit out of Meliodas despite him being far more skilled than Gohan.

. I watched Sins and Meliodas never was even close to master of all martial artists, especially in Goku's case when he became better than this lvl at 16.

All this to get stomped by broly

Because Raditz was still strong and fast, so for him not to dodge, because he already did that, Goku needed to hold Raditz.

Just like Derrieri could dodge lol

Also it wasn't stated that Piccolo was immobile at that moment.

It’s shown

Ki increases person's abilites and is a spititual power, that includes bravery, so it would help(Goku survived powerful poison, and with bigger ki to control Gohan has to be more resilent)

Not only is miasma a stronger poison than pretty much anything known to man but it also corrodes body, soul and mind (instantly for those without resistances)

Gohan's kamehameha can reach 21 megafoe very quickly and go much higher, which is enough to one-shot Derieri so she won't regenerate anymore(Mid lvl regeneration)

Her AP scales at at least 5.61 Megafoe and her Durability is 2x higher aka at least 11.22 Megafoe it’s not one shotting her.

So uh, three questions about derieri

What does getting mind haxed by the miasma do? Based on the scan in the profile it makes king slightly sweat a little and that's it.

King is a Fairy they have base resistances that are among the highest

How do demons get there opponents under an absolute contract?

Not in character for Derrieri but they just spawn a mark on their opponent and if he goes against the user’s will he dies

Three how long are the characters fear haxed? Is it like something that just paralyzed them for a bit at first or is the paralysis a more long term effect?

By showings they get paralysed as long as the user is around them or as long as the spell is used (overpower is a good exemple)

 

[Makai641001]

So, after what I could find on Miasma (There's not very much information on the internet regarding it), it seems to be something they can emit from their bodies, but have to actively decide to do so. Melascula can use Miasma to form attacks (I think?), and Meliodas expels it from his body when he loses control, from what I searched up. Of course, Derieri could use it, but I honestly don't think she would, as she seems more of a brawler type of character than one to use other techniques.

Darkness is Miasma, any demons use it.

Their body just passively emits it just like we emit sweat

I assume this, but not sure if using it as an attack would cause the same effects:

• Status Effect Inducement, Disease Manipulation, Corrosion Inducement and Layered Mind Manipulation [1 layer] (Demon World is a polluted and corrupted land covered by miasma, all other clan's minds and bodies are prone to rot and decay. Miasma also causes others feel sick)

basically it instakills people that have no resistance through corrosion (dark snow is an exemple)

It rots away the minds and bodies almost instantly even for people as strong and durable as Nanashi

Ironside’s wife was poisoned due to a part of DK’s dead body falling not far from her.
And no matter how hard this skilled curse user tried to save her and extend her life she ultimately died and their son was poisoned too.

 

[AlipheeseXIV]

Yeah, looks like the grain is in Derieri's favor can count my vote for her

 

[speedster352]

Derieri fra

 

[Delusionaltx2]

King is a Fairy they have base resistances that are among the highest

Figures, so just to clarify is escanor the one being used as an example in that scan then?

Not in character for Derrieri but they just spawn a mark on their opponent and if he goes against the user’s will he dies

Alright then

By showings they get paralysed as long as the user is around them or as long as the spell is used (overpower is a good exemple)

Yeah I figured this was how it worked after skimming through the chapter

 

[Delusionaltx2]

I assume this, but not sure if using it as an attack would cause the same effects:

• Status Effect Inducement, Disease Manipulation, Corrosion Inducement and Layered Mind Manipulation [1 layer] (Demon World is a polluted and corrupted land covered by miasma, all other clan's minds and bodies are prone to rot and decay. Miasma also causes others feel sick)

Assuming this is what's effecting escanor here the effects seem pretty quick and from a distance at that. I imagine an attack made out of this stuff that's actually making contact would probably have more severe effects.

Dragon ball characters and later versions of gohan specifically have been caught off guard by similar attacks in super and need to make more specific ki barriers to deal with this (something gohan at this point will certainly not know how to even do)

Not only that but ultimate gohan specifically is also just kind of a jobber...

The paralysis from fear hax seems to last long enough to be usable too (it mainly seems to work for as long as they're nearby)

From what I'm hearing the effects are instant no? Doesn't derieri just kinda miasma crush him? And if thats the case wouldn't it be a stomp?

If not I'll just vote for her due to fear hax + LS ragdoll allowing her to circumvent the otherwise enormous skill advantage and land hits with combo star

 

[Makai641001]

Assuming this is what's effecting escanor here the effects seem pretty quick and from a distance at that. I imagine an attack made out of this stuff that's actually making contact would probably have more severe effects.

And Escanor have massive resistances too

Dragon ball characters and later versions of gohan specifically have been caught off guard by similar attacks in super and need to make more specific ki barriers to deal with this (something gohan at this point will certainly not know how to even do)

Not only that but ultimate gohan specifically is also just kind of a jobber...

The paralysis from fear hax seems to last long enough to be usable too (it mainly seems to work for as long as they're nearby)

Yeah it can last long enough for her to at least start her combo which would be the end of Gohan

From what I'm hearing the effects are instant no?

Yeah if he doesn’t have resistances to corrosion and very strong poisons he’ll get immediate effects

Doesn't derieri just kinda miasma crush him? And if thats the case wouldn't it be a stomp?

I don’t think it’s a stomp but Gohan has very low chances to pull this off

If not I'll just vote for her due to fear hax + LS ragdoll allowing her to circumvent the otherwise enormous skill advantage and land hits with combo star

I don’t think the skill gap is that big + she already ragdolled Meliodas that has a better skill section.

 

[Bossbrosish]

Bumping

 

[Mgebrat282]

He does not have a choice to let it happen or not tho, he couldn’t use his broken arm against Cell

Ki techinques can be used even withou limbs

Power≠skill

It's not a skill, it's a lvl of threat, how dangerous it was for them and with how much of courage they faced them(high lvl of ki can induce fear in those who can feel it).

It does, his willpower litterally magically grants him resistances or powers from dead people

It's still not reality manipulation(Sin verse doesn't has it), so it can't be compared with Ki's reality warping and dimensional breaking(courage is a part of ki)

Cause Derrieri was completely able to beat the shit out of Meliodas despite him being far more skilled than Gohan.

My point is still valid, you don't mention that 14 years old Gohan beated Cell who is leasted as genius in wiki and used Gohan's only page, when in Derieri's case you used other wiki pages not mentioning that on her page she's just Above Average(I'm not saying it's true, only the fact your logic was strange and in only Derieri's favor).

All this to get stomped by broly

He was stated to be very adaptive...

Just like Derrieri could dodge lol

Raditz was much faster than Piccolo and Derieri isn't faster than Gohan(speed equalized, otherwise Goathan would blitz her).

It’s shown

It wasn't

Not only is miasma a stronger poison than pretty much anything known to man but it also corrodes body, soul and mind (instantly for those without resistances)

Saiyans can no diff deceases that can kill all living things on planet Earth(Jaco). Soul and mind won't work because of ki's properties again

 

[Mgebrat282]

Bumping

Why you didn't included me and Ednaxel2 in Gohan's favor(he clearly made his point)?

 

[Bossbrosish]

Why you didn't included me and Ednaxel2 in Gohan's favor(he clearly made his point)?

Ednaxel said he was leaning Gohan and hasn't given a solid vote (but mentioned that Derieri should win this from what I saw) as for you, I didn't see a vote for Gohan when I was checking votes (Unless you did vote and I missed it)

 

[Bossbrosish]

Ednaxel said he was leaning Gohan and hasn't given a solid vote (but mentioned that Derieri should win this from what I saw) as for you, I didn't see a vote for Gohan when I was checking votes (Unless you did vote and I missed it)

I'll add you for Gohan

 

[Arkenis]

How does Gohan get past her regen?

 

[Mgebrat282]

How does Gohan get past her regen?

Kamewhat?

 

[Arkenis]

Kamewhat?

She has regen, how does he get past that

 

[MannyQ361]

Looks like regenerating weakens her the more she does it. Gohan was able to destroy Cell's whole body with a Kamehameha, so maybe it's something he could do if he weakens her enough.

 

[Arkenis]

Oh yeah then voting Gohan he'll destroy her and her soul with that

 

[Makai641001]

Ki techinques can be used even withou limbs

Yeah show me Gohan doing so

It's not a skill, it's a lvl of threat, how dangerous it was for them and with how much of courage they faced them(high lvl of ki can induce fear in those who can feel it).

Courage is not Resistance to fear manip

It's still not reality manipulation

It has effects on reality

(Sin verse doesn't has it),

7DS verse has RW

so it can't be compared with Ki's reality warping and dimensional breaking(courage is a part of ki)

My point is still valid, you don't mention that 14 years old Gohan beated Cell who is leasted as genius in wiki and used Gohan's only page, when in Derieri's case you used other wiki pages not mentioning that on her page she's just Above Average(I'm not saying it's true, only the fact your logic was strange and in only Derieri's favor).

Derrieri was equal to Meliodas while Gohan was stomping cell

He was stated to be very adaptive...
Raditz was much faster than Piccolo and Derieri isn't faster than Gohan(speed equalized, otherwise Goathan would blitz her).

Hence why speed is equalized dumb point

It wasn't

Saiyans can no diff deceases that can kill all living things on planet Earth(Jaco). Soul and mind won't work because of ki's properties again

Yeah sure tell that to goku

 

[Makai641001]

Looks like regenerating weakens her the more she does it.

This weakness doesn’t apply to High ranking demons

Gohan was able to destroy Cell's whole body with a Kamehameha, so maybe it's something he could do if he weakens her enough.

He won’t be able to land his Kamehameha + it wouldn’t deal enough damage.

Oh yeah then voting Gohan he'll destroy her and her soul with that

Ark Which is specifically designed to destroy her soul couldn’t destroy it, Purge can’t destroy the souls of HRD unless they are weakened

 

[Makai641001]

It’s crazy to see how no one adressed the fear hax, poisons, corrosion, colossal stat gap and assume Gohan would even land his Kamehameha and that it would be a one shot.

He litteraly has no resistance to Layered fear manip.

Has no showings about his ki negating Corrosion or poisons as violent as Miasma.

Her base AP is superior to his, her durability is at least 2x superior due to no selling her own FC’d attack
Her LS is millions of times higher

Kamehameha can’t one shot her it’s only 2x her durability and she can regen it and resists it’s soul manip and destruction effects.

Her star combo is strong enough to litteraly 3 tap Gohan

Edit: Her skills and weakness sections are outdated too HRD don’t have the regen weakness anymore.

Weaknesses: All Demons are vulnerable to Holy Magic, as it breaks down Darkness particles. Note however that high-level demons have shown to take only minor damage from beings near their own level, implying the vulnerability is not extreme.

 

[Muteki616]

I think you need a better reason to vote for Gohan than just simply superior skill

why? he highkey skill diffs her and that is a valid wincon.
he is a far better flying fighter and has access to teleportation techniques.

Demons extract and straight up destroy souls.

Derrierie being a high ranking demon her soul manip scales significantly higher Than a baseline red demon

That's fine, Soul Destruction resistance is at a basic level. Gohan is a Master.

Demons have layered passive fear hax
Chandler Cusack and co could fear manip Arthur that previously sliced them in half.

Dragonball Ki aura do the same thing they induce fear onto weaker opponents such as Derieri.

 

[Arkenis]

Ark Which is specifically designed to destroy her soul couldn’t destroy it, Purge can’t destroy the souls of HRD unless they are weakened

It’s crazy to see how no one adressed the fear hax, poisons, corrosion, colossal stat gap and assume Gohan would even land his Kamehameha and that it would be a one shot.

He litteraly has no resistance to Layered fear manip.

Has no showings about his ki negating Corrosion or poisons as violent as Miasma.

Her base AP is superior to his, her durability is at least 2x superior due to no selling her own FC’d attack
Her LS is millions of times higher

Kamehameha can’t one shot her it’s only 2x her durability and she can regen it and resists it’s soul manip and destruction effects.

Her star combo is strong enough to litteraly 3 tap Gohan

Edit: Her skills and weakness sections are outdated too HRD don’t have the regen weakness anymore.

What do you think is Gohan's win con then? Cuz beating her up isn't optional and hax don't work. Is this just a stomp?

 

[Muteki616]

Cuz beating her up isn't optional

Why not?

 

[Arkenis]

She's stronger and more durable and can just regen.

 

[Muteki616]

She's stronger and more durable and can just regen.

What's the accepted stat increase? With charged attacks and dura negg he isn't getting slammed in this fight.

 

[Muteki616]

and can just regen.

LMAO it's mid level Regen
Ki leaves worse damage.
A charged ki blast is evaporating her.

 

[Arkenis]

LMAO it's mid level Regen
Ki leaves worse damage.
A charged ki blast is evaporating her.

She's more durable by 2x, can dodge, or block it with her own attacks. Those are clearly done to Cell being physically weaker not on the same level or more durable than it.