BAN-KAI! Bleach General Discussion

[Specterxxxx]

Can you show me the panel? I can't remember it.

Ichigo was off-guard and had already taken a lot of hits from Yhwach. No, Tsukishima doesn't scale up to him in terms of power. At worst, I'd call him an outlier. Besides, Tsukishima's ability to outmaneuver Byakuya throughout the fight isn't something that would qualify as an outlier. Byakuya had to lower his guard to defeat him.

Calling something an outlier isn't an argument, also according to his profile, the book of the end allows him to match his opponents and thats how he got to Byakuya's level.

Let me give you an example using Shinji. Does Shinji's ability to hit off-guard Aizen mean we're upscaling him to Aizen's level?

That was KS, he didn't hit Aizen. There is no sign of the wounds at the end of their fight.

No, because he has anti-feats that show he's not at Aizen's level. There are many things that show Tsukishima won't be at the level of True Shikai Ichigo. But there's nothing that shows he won't be at the level of Byakuya, at least not at the level of the Fullbring arc. One is a scene of him hitting an outlier, the other is a long fight. The two can't be compared.

This is all debunked by Aizen using KS and Tsukishima's having RE via the book of the end which allowed him to match byakuya his profile supports this.

In the Kisuke chapter, you said you were arguing based on what the Wiki accepts. The Wiki accepts that Tsukishima scales to Byakuya.

With the book of the end increasing his stats yes and he still scales to grimjoww.

Zommari also scales to Byakuya.

He doesn't scale to byakuya in this wiki.

You can't upscale from Espada level 7 to Espada level 0 in a few hours without doing anything, especially considering Zommari's speed is enough to react to Senbonzakura Gokei.

Because he is the fastest espada, so he obviously he would be able to react.

Yammy, on the other hand, should have even higher reaction and attack speed than Zommari.

Nope he doesn't, he is the slowest espada lol.

On what basis exactly are you saying Byakuya isn't a low-level captain? The evidence used to support Byakuya's claim of strength is:

Via the databooks rating of the captains, byakuya and Shunsui are comparable with shunsui being a bit stronger.

1) He was able to hit Gerard (This is considered invalid on the wiki because Toshiro froze him. Even if Toshiro hadn't frozen him, we'd still call him an outlier because while V1 couldn't even scratch Gerard, V3 could hit Gerard with Senkei, and Senkei only gives a 2x AP boost).

Okay?

2) He was able to hit Yammy.

If you're not scaling the character to Yammy and Gerard, you'd already place Byakuya at the very bottom of the captain rankings. In the first arc, he was shown as Ichigo's opponent, using Bankai for the first time... So no, Byakuya is a low-level captain. It was also stated in Nestle to Night that Yammy was defeated in an off-screen fight. Zaraki and Byakuya don't beat Yammy's final form. The scenes where Byakuya is involved in the fight are also outliers due to the anti-feats against Tsukishima and Zommari. For years, this wiki and many communities have scaled Byakuya to Yammy to upscale the characters. If you don't scale him to Yammy, characters like Liltotto, Meninas, and Robert wouldn't have such a high tier.

I am not even gonna counter this because this wiki, the conclusion on the manga amongst other things debunk your point.

The novel shows us Base Grimmjow fighting against Tsukishima and Base Ginjo. Girikko tells us that Base Grimmjow's GRC is slightly stronger than Base Ginjo's GT. The same applies to speed, with Ginjo GT being slightly faster than Grimmjow's GRC.

Base Grimmjow doesn't scale to his gran rey cero, because it is 10 times stronger than he is even his ressurecion is weaker than his gran rey cero unless he using grc or his signature attack in his res form.

We also see Tsukishima trying to impress Grimmjow with the Book of the End, but Grimmjow is unimpressed (meaning not affected in the way Tsukishima wanted) because Grimmjow is capable of attacking even his own allies. So how can you say such a battle didn't happen?

I didn't say it didn't happen, I said he isn't stronger.

Base Grimmjow GRC AP => Base Ginjo GT AP > CFYOW Tsukishima's durability > The Lost Agent Shinigami arc Tsukishima's durability.

In the same novel, it is also stated that Grimmjow still cannot surpass Baraggan, which puts him below Yammy.

Ikomikidomoe talks about prime barragan that he knows and barragan still has crazy hax that grimjoww can't counter. We also read all espadas including grimjoww putting the paws and harming Ikomikomodoe in his final form while hikone is fighting zaraki. So at best they are all relative.

Final form Yammy>Baraggan>CFYOW Resurrection Grimmjow>CFYOW Base Grimmjow>CFYOW Tsukishima> TLAS Tsukihima>TLAS Byakuya

Cyfow base grimjoww isn't stronger than base Tsukishima, he is only stronger with a 10× amp which doesn't scale to his physicals.

We discussed this in the Fullbring Ichigo downgrade CRT. Naeobito also argued that Starrk > Shikai Shunsui. Unlike me, Naeobito ONLY argued that Shikai Shunsui was weaker than Starrk in the FKT arc.

And nothing changed his profile that literally states, he surpasses the full power of starkk.
And also at the time the of this debate, I wasn't aware kubo was involved in the scripts of the fake karakura town arc so it is secondary canon and can be used to support my argument as Shunsui tanks starkks wolves.

We've seen many times in the series that attacks can be weaker when they're not taken seriously.

You would have to prove starkk wasn't taking shunsui seriously, he literally was forcing him to use bankai and he off guarded him with intent to finish him. Unless you provide proof of otherwise this is a fact.

Do you watch Shikai Ukitake vs Mue fights? They're relative, and Eye Patch Zaraki easily defeats Mue. Against Nnoitra, the eye patch fell off. While Nnoitra scales into a stronger Zaraki form, Mue gets one-shotted by a weaker Zaraki form. And Mue is Shikai Ukitake level.

Huh? I need scans of all this because I don't recall mue fighting ukitake. The only ukitake canon fights i can remember is him vs aareneiro in rukia's flashback and him fighting starkks other half.

In the Arrancar arc, you need to prove Shunsui is stronger.

I don't need to, the profile agrees with it already. And the anime being secondary canon shows him surviving starkks ceros.

Why would my durability decrease when attacking Wonderweiss? You didn't understand the Shinji-Tosen example I gave. You're arguing that durability decreases when you're off-guard. Yes, it does decrease, but characters should guard when attacking someone, even if they don't know someone is attacking them. Attacking Wonderweiss =/= I only have durability that tanks Wonderweiss's attacks; my durability is low against others. This only explains why I don't react to the speed of other attacks. It doesn't answer why I can't withstand them.

The attack still didn't do anything to him, he was pretending. Lisa proves this but thanks for explaining further I didn't really understand before.

Where does it say that the previous eye patch weakened its power to Bankai level (5x)?

Azashiro likens his power up to a bankai level increase when he removes his eye patch in safwy.

 

[Lort15]

çamaşır suyu

 

[Excellence616]

çamaşır suyu

yeah

 

[Apollonir.Scale]

Calling something an outlier isn't an argument, also according to his profile, the book of the end allows him to match his opponents and thats how he got to Byakuya's level.

To use the Book of the End, he needs to hit him, or instead of hitting him, he needs to stab him with the sword without inflicting damage, as Orihime did. How can he do the same thing against Byakuya, who is trying to kill him, as he did with Orihime? To prove it, you need to prove that you can blitz Byakuya's perception speed, just like Orihime did with her perception speed.

With the book of the end increasing his stats yes and he still scales to grimjoww.

I repeat, to use this ability, you need to either cut the target beforehand or, like in the Orihime scene, just touch them with the sword without inflicting damage. You need to prove that you touched Byakuya without inflicting damage.

He doesn't scale to byakuya in this wiki.

That's a flawed interpretation. To defeat Zommari, he needs to activate his Bankai. There isn't a huge difference between Byakuya's shikai and his Bankai.

Because he is the fastest espada, so he obviously he would be able to react.

He's not the fastest Espada in terms of raw speed. The term "fastest Espada" refers to his ability to use Sonido. Senbonzakura doesn't use Sonido when reacting to Goukei. He activates his Shell form before Goukei can reach him. So, this isn't something he does with Sonido speed.

Nope he doesn't, he is the slowest espada lol.

I'm not talking about travel speed. I'm talking about attack and reaction speed. If the Espada is the slowest in terms of attack and reaction speed, how can they injure Zaraki and Byakuya? How can their attacks reach them? And according to this logic, Espada number 0 can't defeat/kill any other Espada because they're too slow...

I am not even gonna counter this because this wiki, the conclusion on the manga amongst other things debunk your point.

What exactly refutes the statement on Nestle to Night?

Via the databooks rating of the captains, byakuya and Shunsui are comparable with shunsui being a bit stronger.

Databook statements aren't always consistent. Renji has a score close to Byakuya's.

The databook's canon status isn't even equal to the manga's. Are we supposed to accept statements that Grimmjow is the strongest Arrancar?

Base Grimmjow doesn't scale to his gran rey cero, because it is 10 times stronger than he is even his ressurecion is weaker than his gran rey cero unless he using grc or his signature attack in his res form.

Great, even if you calculate 10x, Grimmjow is still weaker than Yammy from Baraggan.

Yammy GRC>>(10x)Yammy physical~~>Respira>Baraggan GRC>Grimmjow GRC=>Ginjo GT>Tsukishima AP

I didn't say it didn't happen, I said he isn't stronger.

I misread it, sorry.

Ikomikidomoe talks about prime barragan that he knows and barragan still has crazy hax that grimjoww can't counter. We also read all espadas including grimjoww putting the paws and harming Ikomikomodoe in his final form while hikone is fighting zaraki. So at best they are all relative.

I hadn't mentioned this statement, but it also can't be proven that the young Baraggan that Ikomikidomoe knew was stronger than Yammy. When Cien talks about the strongest Arrancar abilities, he includes Respira, thinking of the greatest Baraggan of all time.

Cyfow base grimjoww isn't stronger than base Tsukishima, he is only stronger with a 10× amp which doesn't scale to his physicals.

He can fight both Base Ginjo and Tsukishima at the same time, and I'm not saying he's 10x stronger without GRC. The fact that he scales to him shows he'll scale to TLAS Byakuya as well.

And nothing changed his profile that literally states, he surpasses the full power of starkk.

Starrk, whose soul is split, is defeated by Shunsui using the game's hax. Starrk is nerfed because his soul is split, and Shunsui defeats him with the game's hax. In a game, anyone can beat anyone else according to the rules. Therefore, being able to defeat Starrk during the game doesn't give him any AP stat.

The manga's canon status is superior to the anime's canon status. We only consider the opposite for the TYBW Arc. There's also Kubo's statement that the first 366 episodes of the anime and manga are very different from each other.

You would have to prove starkk wasn't taking shunsui seriously, he literally was forcing him to use bankai and he off guarded him with intent to finish him. Unless you provide proof of otherwise this is a fact.

The databook states that Starrk became serious when his friends were involved. Baraggan was fighting Shunsui before he died. The manga refers to Baraggan as a friend. The statement in the databook proves that Starrk wasn't serious before Baraggan's death.

Huh? I need scans of all this because I don't recall mue fighting ukitake. The only ukitake canon fights i can remember is him vs aareneiro in rukia's flashback and him fighting starkks other half.

(46:56)

I don't need to, the profile agrees with it already. And the anime being secondary canon shows him surviving starkks ceros.

The profile also includes a scan indicating that his power has increased. It says that those who have been captains for a long time don't experience power increases. He needs to be in the same tier in SS, Arrancar Saga, TYBW, and CFYOW. The profile is incorrect. For example, despite the scan not increasing power, a value 5x higher than before has been assigned.

The attack still didn't do anything to him, he was pretending. Lisa proves this but thanks for explaining further I didn't really understand before.

If the character isn't taking damage, why does he fall after the attack hits him? The part where Lisa mentioned he was joking was when he pretended to be dead. I'm not saying the character is taking so much damage he can't get up. He's just taking damage.

Azashiro likens his power up to a bankai level increase when he removes his eye patch in safwy.

If he says so, then it's usable.

 

[Apollonir.Scale]

çamaşır suyu

çamaşır suyu, tek parça, ejder topu, avcı x avcı, naruto, çelik simyacı kardeşliği

 

[Ralp0054]

çamaşır suyu, tek parça, ejder topu, avcı x avcı, naruto, çelik simyacı kardeşliği

Şeytan adam ağlak Bebek, çılgına dönmüş, çelik top koşusu

 

[Apollonir.Scale]

patlayan küre (You probably won't find this xD)

 

[Ralp0054]

patlayan küre (You probably won't find this xD)

I give up, please satisfy my curiosity.

 

[Apollonir.Scale]

I give up, please satisfy my curiosity.

Bakugan

 

[CNBA3]

Oestu blitzes his shadow. It's been mentioned several times in this thread and I vaguely remember a calc for it. There's also Uryu doing it. I don't really care if it's accepted or what not, I'm wondering if there was something wrong with the feat itself.

Just curious, at what point in his fight did this happen? Was this at when he oneshotted the Royal Guard? Or his fight with Lille?

 

[Arkenis]

Think its against Askin so the end of the royal guard fight

 

[Lort15]

çamaşır suyu, tek parça, ejder topu, avcı x avcı, naruto, çelik simyacı kardeşliği

Çamaşır suyu solos

 

[Specterxxxx]

To use the Book of the End, he needs to hit him, or instead of hitting him, he needs to stab him with the sword without inflicting damage, as Orihime did. How can he do the same thing against Byakuya, who is trying to kill him, as he did with Orihime? To prove it, you need to prove that you can blitz Byakuya's perception speed, just like Orihime did with her perception speed.

This doesn't matter the wiki doesn't put him on byakuya's level before he uses RE with book of the end so I don't need to waste my time on this

I repeat, to use this ability, you need to either cut the target beforehand or, like in the Orihime scene, just touch them with the sword without inflicting damage. You need to prove that you touched Byakuya without inflicting damage

I don't need to, he doesn't scale to Byakuya In his profile til he uses his fullbring RE abilities.

That's a flawed interpretation. To defeat Zommari, he needs to activate his Bankai. There isn't a huge difference between Byakuya's shikai and his Bankai.

Make a CRT but until you do, he simply doesn't scale

He's not the fastest Espada in terms of raw speed. The term "fastest Espada" refers to his ability to use Sonido. Senbonzakura doesn't use Sonido when reacting to Goukei. He activates his Shell form before Goukei can reach him. So, this isn't something he does with Sonido speed.

This doesn't even matter as the wiki doesn't support him scaling. This would be pointless argument.

I'm not talking about travel speed. I'm talking about attack and reaction speed. If the Espada is the slowest in terms of attack and reaction speed, how can they injure Zaraki and Byakuya? How can their attacks reach them? And according to this logic, Espada number 0 can't defeat/kill any other Espada because they're too slow...

Kenpachi doesn't dodge and probably ceros Idk. Not his speed stats

What exactly refutes the statement on Nestle to Night?

Databook statements aren't always consistent. Renji has a score close to Byakuya's.

Because he is? He forced Byakuya on one knee.

The databook's canon status isn't even equal to the manga's. Are we supposed to accept statements that Grimmjow is the strongest Arrancar?

A scan of this please.

Great, even if you calculate 10x, Grimmjow is still weaker than Yammy from Baraggan.

They don't say this, this is speculation.

Yammy GRC>>(10x)Yammy physical~~>Respira>Baraggan GRC>Grimmjow GRC=>Ginjo GT>Tsukishima AP

This isn't proving your point on BASE grimjoww being stronger.

I misread it, sorry.


I hadn't mentioned this statement, but it also can't be proven that the young Baraggan that Ikomikidomoe knew was stronger than Yammy. When Cien talks about the strongest Arrancar abilities, he includes Respira, thinking of the greatest Baraggan of all time.

Okay?

He can fight both Base Ginjo and Tsukishima at the same time, and I'm not saying he's 10x stronger without GRC. The fact that he scales to him shows he'll scale to TLAS Byakuya as well.

He did not fight them both and they were testing each other out because they were trying to understand the situation.

If he does scale, it changes nothing but place all of them relative to each other in their arrancar keys.

Starrk, whose soul is split, is defeated by Shunsui using the game's hax. Starrk is nerfed because his soul is split, and Shunsui defeats him with the game's hax. In a game, anyone can beat anyone else according to the rules. Therefore, being able to defeat Starrk during the game doesn't give him any AP stat.

I am not going to argue with you when the wiki already accepts my stance In the first place.

The manga's canon status is superior to the anime's canon status. We only consider the opposite for the TYBW Arc. There's also Kubo's statement that the first 366 episodes of the anime and manga are very different from each other.

The Manga doesn't contradict it, it just doesn't show it. That is secondary evidence being completed by the other evidences the wiki already accepts.

where does he say all 366 episodes are different.

The databook states that Starrk became serious when his friends were involved. Baraggan was fighting Shunsui before he died. The manga refers to Baraggan as a friend. The statement in the databook proves that Starrk wasn't serious before Baraggan's death.

This isn't proof hope you know that, having shrug demeanor doesn't mean your attacks aren't lethal nor does it mean he was holding back and shunsui tanked the attack.

(46:56)

The link isn't working. Which episode?

The profile also includes a scan indicating that his power has increased. It says that those who have been captains for a long time don't experience power increases. He needs to be in the same tier in SS, Arrancar Saga, TYBW, and CFYOW. The profile is incorrect. For example, despite the scan not increasing power, a value 5x higher than before has been assigned.

Make a CRT.

If the character isn't taking damage, why does he fall after the attack hits him? The part where Lisa mentioned he was joking was when he pretended to be dead. I'm not saying the character is taking so much damage he can't get up. He's just taking damage.

I am not going to continue arguing on something that's already accepted.

 

[AppleLord]

No, the statement refers to the holding back shikai Yamamoto during Rukia's execution. Shunsui is comparing the heat of Tokinada's flames to Yamamoto's flames and says Yamamoto's were hotter.

If a person using Enrakyoten Zanpakuto is weaker than another, they cannot use their Shikai ability as well.

The statement that Aizen is weaker than Tokinada refers to Aizen who doesn't have Hogyoku. Tokinada copied the zanpaktos of the characters in the FKT Arc. At that time, Aizen was pre-Hogyoku Aizen.

Yhwach did said 2 arms Yamamoto > 1 arm Yamamoto. Shunsui and Ukitake never trained. Their Tiers should be the same as TYBW tier.

 

[AppleLord]

Didn’t Kubo also answered the 2 arms scaling?

 

[Cipher72]

Didn’t Kubo also answered the 2 arms scaling?

Iirc he said in a Q&A that having 1 hands nerfed his Reiatsu controlling capabilities and also over-all output.

 

[Apollonir.Scale]

This doesn't matter the wiki doesn't put him on byakuya's level before he uses RE with book of the end so I don't need to waste my time on this

I don't need to, he doesn't scale to Byakuya In his profile til he uses his fullbring RE abilities.

Right now, you're just defending your own opinion despite the profiles being incorrectly formatted. I told you that he needed to damage Byakuya to be able to use the Book of the End. Tsukishima also states that he cut Byakuya.

Moreover, the Book of the End isn't a form that gives AP when opened and loses it when closed, as you think. He entered Byakuya's past with the Book of the End and trained with him. That's why his power increased. But when he closes the Book of the End, this power doesn't disappear. So, his form against Grimmjow in the novel also has the power he gained by training with Byakuya. You're interpreting the Book of the End as if it were something like Naruto opening the KCM.

This doesn't even matter as the wiki doesn't support him scaling. This would be pointless argument.

I don't understand. Goukei<Normal shots?

Kenpachi doesn't dodge and probably ceros Idk. Not his speed stats

How did Byakuya get damaged? In the off-screen fight, Yammy must have managed to hit them before collapsing from her rage. Otherwise, there's no explanation for so much blood on them.

Because he is? He forced Byakuya on one knee.

The Byakuya he brought to his knees was Shikai Byakuya. Bankai Byakuya >> Bankai Renji ~~> Shikai Byakuya. Even if you accept that there isn't a huge difference between Shikai and Bankai, you also have to accept the Zommari part above.

A scan of this please.

A databook panel stating that Ichigo and Grimmjow transcended their own races in battle. I don't have a scan of it right now.

This isn't proving your point on BASE grimjoww being stronger.

How can you not prove it? I sent you the Base GRC=>Base Ginjo GT scan, remember? Ginjo is stronger than Tsukishima. Even if you don't say he's stronger, it's relative. According to the scaling chain I wrote, Yammy's GRC is AT LEAST 10x stronger than Base Grimmjow's GRC. If Tsukishima is Yammy level, how can he be a character that can take damage from Grimmjow's GRC?

I am not going to argue with you when the wiki already accepts my stance In the first place.

Currently on the wiki, the acceptance of one thing cannot be used as an argument for the acceptance of another. For example, when someone said that one of the YYH characters is SOL, and therefore adding another character to their profile as SOL wouldn't be a problem, that previously accepted SOL statement was incorrect. So no, you can't use incorrect scaling in profiles to defend the correctness of another scaling. With that logic, profiles could never be updated because the existing profiles don't say that, everyone would argue.

The Manga doesn't contradict it, it just doesn't show it. That is secondary evidence being completed by the other evidences the wiki already accepts.

How is that not contradictory? In the manga, Starrk uses his wolves because he wants to end the fight quickly. In the fight with Shunsui, he restrains himself because he wants to see Shunsui's Bankai.

This isn't proof hope you know that, having shrug demeanor doesn't mean your attacks aren't lethal nor does it mean he was holding back and shunsui tanked the attack.

If it were serious, he could have defeated him earlier. That's what I'm talking about. In the fight between Yumichika and Ganju, it was stated that non-serious attacks weren't as powerful as serious ones. And we know this thanks to Aizen. He was able to use Kurohitsugi against Komamura by limiting himself. So no, non-serious attacks aren't as powerful as serious ones. If non-serious Cero can hit Shunsui, why would Shunsui scale to Wolves?

If that's not enough, the databook also states that "even Shunsui had to defend himself against Starrk." In the manga panel that this statement cites as an example, Starrk uses normal Cero. It's stated that Starrk's strongest technique is Wolves. This means Wolves > GRC > Cero Oscuar > (10x) Base Cero. As you say, if Shunsui scales to Wolves, how is he supposed to avoid attacks that are 10x weaker?

The link isn't working. Which episode?

I specified 46:56, and you know I was referring to the movie MoN. At worst, you could have searched the video title on YouTube.

Make a CRT.

In the Arc, which depicts events 100 years prior, there are mentions of captains who have served for over 100 years, and Shunsui is one of them. TYBW doesn't just appear in the "old captain" category mentioned by Kubo in the Arc; he was an old captain on the SS and in the Arrancar saga as well.

 

[Crobatman44]

Just curious, at what point in his fight did this happen? Was this at when he oneshotted the Royal Guard? Or his fight with Lille?

Late but it's in chapter 602 bane licking good.
The respective anime scene is in episode 25/The Master.

 

[CNBA3]

Late but it's in chapter 602 bane licking good.
The respective anime scene is in episode 25/The Master.

Thanks, I think I know what you’re talking about, when Oetsu bled himself, and when he shunpo’d from that scene which looks like there is a shadow left? I think that was from the blood sprayed above.

 

[Specterxxxx]

Right now, you're just defending your own opinion despite the profiles being incorrectly formatted. I told you that he needed to damage Byakuya to be able to use the Book of the End. Tsukishima also states that he cut Byakuya.

Moreover, the Book of the End isn't a form that gives AP when opened and loses it when closed, as you think. He entered Byakuya's past with the Book of the End and trained with him. That's why his power increased. But when he closes the Book of the End, this power doesn't disappear. So, his form against Grimmjow in the novel also has the power he gained by training with Byakuya. You're interpreting the Book of the End as if it were something like Naruto opening the KCM.


I don't understand. Goukei<Normal shots?

How did Byakuya get damaged? In the off-screen fight, Yammy must have managed to hit them before collapsing from her rage. Otherwise, there's no explanation for so much blood on them.

The Byakuya he brought to his knees was Shikai Byakuya. Bankai Byakuya >> Bankai Renji ~~> Shikai Byakuya. Even if you accept that there isn't a huge difference between Shikai and Bankai, you also have to accept the Zommari part above.

A databook panel stating that Ichigo and Grimmjow transcended their own races in battle. I don't have a scan of it right now.

How can you not prove it? I sent you the Base GRC=>Base Ginjo GT scan, remember? Ginjo is stronger than Tsukishima. Even if you don't say he's stronger, it's relative. According to the scaling chain I wrote, Yammy's GRC is AT LEAST 10x stronger than Base Grimmjow's GRC. If Tsukishima is Yammy level, how can he be a character that can take damage from Grimmjow's GRC?


Currently on the wiki, the acceptance of one thing cannot be used as an argument for the acceptance of another. For example, when someone said that one of the YYH characters is SOL, and therefore adding another character to their profile as SOL wouldn't be a problem, that previously accepted SOL statement was incorrect. So no, you can't use incorrect scaling in profiles to defend the correctness of another scaling. With that logic, profiles could never be updated because the existing profiles don't say that, everyone would argue.


How is that not contradictory? In the manga, Starrk uses his wolves because he wants to end the fight quickly. In the fight with Shunsui, he restrains himself because he wants to see Shunsui's Bankai.


If it were serious, he could have defeated him earlier. That's what I'm talking about. In the fight between Yumichika and Ganju, it was stated that non-serious attacks weren't as powerful as serious ones. And we know this thanks to Aizen. He was able to use Kurohitsugi against Komamura by limiting himself. So no, non-serious attacks aren't as powerful as serious ones. If non-serious Cero can hit Shunsui, why would Shunsui scale to Wolves?

If that's not enough, the databook also states that "even Shunsui had to defend himself against Starrk." In the manga panel that this statement cites as an example, Starrk uses normal Cero. It's stated that Starrk's strongest technique is Wolves. This means Wolves > GRC > Cero Oscuar > (10x) Base Cero. As you say, if Shunsui scales to Wolves, how is he supposed to avoid attacks that are 10x weaker?


I specified 46:56, and you know I was referring to the movie MoN. At worst, you could have searched the video title on YouTube.


In the Arc, which depicts events 100 years prior, there are mentions of captains who have served for over 100 years, and Shunsui is one of them. TYBW doesn't just appear in the "old captain" category mentioned by Kubo in the Arc; he was an old captain on the SS and in the Arrancar saga as well.

I am not gonna keep on arguing with you on something the wiki currently accepts.

 

[Specterxxxx]

Anyways, I apologize i couldn't continue to participate on SS arc revaluation CRT, I have been busy with other things for days. However, upon reading the thread. Ralph made a good point. Extending the range to the entirety of the rukongai is the best possible to evaluate the scaling.

I don't know if @Ralp0054 has figured something out, but I propose we use the size average village or town district of Japan, Since rukongai is linked to feudal Japan and add it to the size of the seretei and calc the total value. Now all the area value of each town or village is listed in Wikipedia. We can take the average of all the different sizes and use the result to scale each district (i think about 80 to 100 km^2 area for villages or 120 to 150 km^2 for town) and multiply that by the 320 districts that exists. To get the size of the rukongai.

That's what I am thinking now, but let's see yall thoughts. Fixing this is more important than the low 5B upgrade I am planning, so I will focus on this for now unless Ralph is doing that.

 

[Ralp0054]

Anyways, I apologize i couldn't continue to participate on SS arc revaluation CRT, I have been busy with other things for days. However, upon reading the thread. Ralph made a good point. Extending the range to the entirety of the rukongai is the best possible to evaluate the scaling.

I don't know if @Ralp0054 has figured something out, but I propose we use the size average village or town district of Japan, Since rukongai is linked to feudal Japan and add it to the size of the seretei and calc the total value. Now all the area value of each town or village is listed in Wikipedia. We can take the average of all the different sizes and use the result to scale each district (i think about 80 to 100 km^2 area for villages or 120 to 150 km^2 for town) and multiply that by the 320 districts that exists. To get the size of the rukongai.

That's what I am thinking now, but let's see yall thoughts. Fixing this is more important than the low 5B upgrade I am planning, so I will focus on this for now unless Ralph is doing that.

I'm currently conducting research, and putting this together will be difficult, but one thing is certain: each district seems to be the size of a large city, or even a state. And these are 80 each to the east, west, south and north of Seireitei, that is, a total of 320.

 

[Specterxxxx]

I'm currently conducting research, and putting this together will be difficult, but one thing is certain: each district seems to be the size of a large city, or even a state. And these are 80 each to the east, west, south and north of Seireitei, that is, a total of 320.

I have tried to do it that but it is coming up with low results that don't match the narrative implications of rukongai being massively bigger than the SS. Since we don't have enough values of population densities of each district to get that. The best possible way is to pixel scale the size of the rukongai to seretei via the SS map depiction of the area since we already have a known accepted size of the seretei.

From what I have seen, this is the only one we can use. I could work on it later.

 

[Ralp0054]

I have tried to do it that but it is coming up with low results that don't match the narrative implications of rukongai being massively bigger than the SS. Since we don't have enough values of population densities of each district to get that. The best possible way is to pixel scale the size of the rukongai to seretei via the SS map depiction of the area since we already have a known accepted size of the seretei.

From what I have seen, this is the only one we can use. I could work on it later.

You just said exactly my second plan, I don't see any problems with the Pixel calc either. but let's not take the easy way out for now and let me save up some things for another day or two.

 

[Specterxxxx]

You just said exactly my second plan, I don't see any problems with the Pixel calc either. but let's not take the easy way out for now and let me save up some things for another day or two.

Aiit, imma let you cook. I will let you take over since you had the idea originally. I will wait to see your final conclusion, let me know if you need any input or assistance.

 

[Adestral]

Why subspace isn't 5D when it encompass three different universe and has its own time flow ?

 

[Cipher72]

Why subspace isn't 5D when it encompass three different universe and has its own time flow ?

What subspace ?

 

[Ghostimuscrime]

I think he was trying to refer to the Garganta


To answer why : no one bothered implementing it

 

[Cipher72]

I think he was trying to refer to the Garganta


To answer why : no one bothered implementing it

Insignificance strikes again most likely

 

[Ralp0054]

Why subspace isn't 5D when it encompass three different universe and has its own time flow ?

A comprehensive cosmology blog will be prepared when Cour 4 is released.

 

[ichimojii]

Why subspace isn't 5D when it encompass three different universe and has its own time flow ?

The standards for low 2c and low complex were different back then. It's the reason zeno from dbs didn't get 5D at first. He erased a timeline that had 12 universes in it each being their own space-time. Tho now he's 5D so should the garganta be 5D

 

[Ghostimuscrime]

did the standards change? what changed about them? I thought newer arguments got recontextualized leading to them getting accepted instead of the qualifiers shifting

 

[PizzaDante67]

The standards for low 2c and low complex were different back then. It's the reason zeno from dbs didn't get 5D at first. He erased a timeline that had 12 universes in it each being their own space-time. Tho now he's 5D so should the garganta be 5D

I think a 5D Garganta can be argued honestly. Would it get accepted? Meh, probably not.

The Wiki accepts the realms as individual space-time continua with their own timeline and the Garganta is also an accepted space-time continuum (i think).

Because these universes do not share space or time, they cannot be embedded as distinct objects within a single 4D space-time without identification or overlap.
To distinguish entire 4D space-time continua from one another, an additional independent coordinate is required.

Thats just my opinion tho and i am not really knowledgeable about Higher Dimensional stuff on the Wiki so the requirements might be different.

Who do you guys think scales to the Garganta anyway? Only Soul King Yhwach and Prime Adnyeus or more people?

 

[Cipher72]

I think a 5D Garganta can be argued honestly. Would it get accepted? Meh, probably not.

The Wiki accepts the realms as individual space-time continua with their own timeline and the Garganta is also an accepted space-time continuum (i think).

Because these universes do not share space or time, they cannot be embedded as distinct objects within a single 4D space-time without identification or overlap.
To distinguish entire 4D space-time continua from one another, an additional independent coordinate is required.

Thats just my opinion tho and i am not really knowledgeable about Higher Dimensional stuff on the Wiki so the requirements might be different.

Who do you guys think scales to the Garganta anyway? Only Soul King Yhwach and Prime Adnyeus or more people?

Well I think you are correct on those but the main problem is going to be Significance, now as for scaling idt anyone has reliable scaling (Plz don't bring up the Kenny wank) but I can see Prime Adnyeus scaling to it and SK Yhwach via Environmental Destruction.

 

[PizzaDante67]

Well I think you are correct on those but the main problem is going to be Significance, now as for scaling idt anyone has reliable scaling (Plz don't bring up the Kenny wank) but I can see Prime Adnyeus scaling to it and SK Yhwach via Environmental Destruction.

Soul King Yhwach with 2-C Ap, Low 1-C via ED would be awesome ngl.

 

[Apollonir.Scale]

Plz don't bring up the Kenny wank

What was Kenpachi's statement/feat?

 

[Cipher72]

What was Kenpachi's statement/feat?

“The 'tear' into this world that was opened during the battle between Zaraki and Cien has already been closed, but it left a scar, as if burning the wall of space-time”

P sure this is in reference to the Garganta unless I am mistaken

 

[Cipher72]

Soul King Yhwach with 2-C Ap, Low 1-C via ED would be awesome ngl.

Definitely plausible but idt L1-C is viable because of insignificance stuff but let's wait for cour 4 and input from others and let's see how people decide to tackle stuff.

 

[Excellence616]

P sure this is in reference to the Garganta unless I am mistaken

Nah. Just Space manipulation

 

[DragoZeroNova]

If no one has any Bleach CRT they want to drop in an hour or so, I'll put mine out. It's not the finest quality, but hopefully it works.