Minor Edit for DC Comic profiles

[Hayato5652]

Hello Everyone

This CRT is only for issues related to DC pages I intend to do two things:

• All characters who are placed at Tier 1-A, or even higher than this tier, Any speed they currently have will remain unchanged, and an additional Immeasurable Speed will only be add for Key 1-A

• This is because Tier 1-A applies to characters who, in terms of existence, transcend all spatial dimensions, the temporal dimension, and the overall concept of quantity. As a result, the minimum speed of such characters is automatically upgrade to Immeasurable Speed

Beyond-Dimensional Existence

Hello! I hope everyone is having a great day. In this thread, I would like to propose some changes to the Beyond-Dimensional Existence page, specifically to Type 2. Currently Type 2 BDE has two variants. Variant One: 1) As mentioned before, by a certain "excess of size," in which an object...

vsbattles.com

• According to the CRT above, all characters who have BDE Type 2 should be edit to BDE Type 3, since Type 2 is associated with Low 1-A and quantity, whereas BDE Type 3 applies to Tier 1-A and above in terms of Qualitative

Characters that should be given Immeasurable Speed

Spoiler: Immeasurable Speed

• Darkseid
• Highfather
• The Spectre
• Ares
• Zeus
• The Phantom Stranger (Post-Crisis)
• The Phantom Stranger (Post-Flashpoint)
• Black Alice (varies / post-Flashpoint)
• Black Racer
• Captain Atom (post-Crisis)
• Kalibak
• Big Barda (Post-Flashpoint)
• Nekron
• Doctor Fate (Classic)
• Orion
• The Empty Hand
• Hecate
• Raven (post-Flashpoint)
• Upside-Down Man

Characters that have BDE Type 2 but need to be edited to Type 3:

Spoiler: Beyond-Dimensional Existence

• Lucifer Morningstar
• Michael (Michael Demiurgos)
• Elaine (Elaine Belloc)
• Death of the Endless
• Destiny of the Endless
• Dream of the Endless
• Despair of the Endless
• Destruction of the Endless
• Delirium of the Endless
• Desire of the Endless
• Gabriel
• The Darkest Knight
• Timothy Hunter
• Sestis
• Wonder Woman (Post-Flashpoint)
• Father Time
• Basanos
• Glory of the First Circle
• Mazikeen
• Mother Night

Note:I should mention that these characters already had BDE, but they were simply not edited, If I have left out any character, please let me know Thanks.

Member's suggestions:

Doctor Fate profile dates back to a time when DC was still Tier 1-B, and his profile has not been edited since then

Doctor Fate should be revised from Low 1-C to 2-C

Agree:
@Emirp sumitpo
@Elizio33
@Antvasima(For BDE Type 3)
@Firestorm808

Neutral:

Disagree:

 

[Antvasima]

@Qawsedf234 @Firestorm808 @Elizio33 @Catzlaflame @Emirp sumitpo @IdiosyncraticLawyer @Alonik @ProfectusInfinity @Eficiente @Adr10K @The_Impress

What do you think that we should do here?

 

[Hecky2222]

Agree with thread

If it is possible I would also point out minor change for this page that can lead into some major change to heralds

Dr Fate currently rated Low 1C. However I dont know with what reasons. If reasoning itself is valid this might lead to change all of heralds chainscaling to him. Since at Dark Nights Metal we know Barbatos is superior to Dr Fate.

My little proposal would be

1. Downgrading Dr Fate to 2C if his Low 1C reasoning is shaky
2. If Low 1C reasoning is good chainscale Barbatos to Low 1C that might lead heralds upscale

 

[Hayato5652]

Agree with thread

If it is possible I would also point out minor change for this page that can lead into some major change to heralds

Dr Fate currently rated Low 1C. However I dont know with what reasons. If reasoning itself is valid this might lead to change all of heralds chainscaling to him. Since at Dark Nights Metal we know Barbatos is superior to Dr Fate.

My little proposal would be

1. Downgrading Dr Fate to 2C if his Low 1C reasoning is shaky
2. If Low 1C reasoning is good chainscale Barbatos to Low 1C that might lead heralds upscale

I mentioned this topic in the OP so that it would receive attention

 

[Hecky2222]

I mentioned this topic in the OP so that it would receive attention

After scrolling little bit via history of changes I found that Low 1C itself is outdated

Under this CRTs it was accepted he scales to Sphere of Gods and can even damage Upside Down Man(Who is considered 1A currently)

However SoG under now scaling considered 1A and you cant chainscale heralds to SoG.

Dr Fate Post Flashpoint probably should have two keys via being comparable to Heralds and Barbatos and his peak if we still agree Anubis, Merlin scales to SoG and Upside Down Man feat is valid and not outlier

 

[Hayato5652]

That’s correct, Upside Down Man was Low 1-C back then and has now become 1-A.....

Anyway, I’ll wait to hear the opinions of others as well

 

[Antvasima]

The way I understand current DC Comics cosmology, characters are massively powered up if they enter a higher level of reality, such as the "Sphere of the gods" or the "Sixth Dimension", and massively powered down if they enter a lower level of reality.

 

[Antvasima]

@GeneralSol16 @Legion350

Your input would also be appreciated here.

 

[Hayato5652]

The way I understand current DC Comics cosmology, characters are massively powered up if they enter a higher level of reality, such as the "Sphere of the gods" or the "Sixth Dimension", and massively powered down if they enter a lower level of reality.

That’s completely correct.
For example, all forms of Darkseid are 2-C,except for the Godhead form

What do you think about this OP and the edits?

 

[Hayato5652]

Honestly, I’m not sure whether Immeasurable Speed should be added to Darkseid or not.

I’m talking about the 1-A key.

 

[Antvasima]

Well, given how messy and inconsistent DC Comics cosmology is, we likely cannot automatically scale the character speeds to immeasurable based on power levels without evidence.

 

[Hayato5652]

Well, given how messy and inconsistent DC Comics cosmology is, we likely cannot automatically scale the character speeds to immeasurable based on power levels without evidence.

This was done before in other CRTs; I think it was related to Mandrakk, the Monitor race, and the World Forger.

 

[Hecky2222]

The way I understand current DC Comics cosmology, characters are massively powered up if they enter a higher level of reality, such as the "Sphere of the gods" or the "Sixth Dimension", and massively powered down if they enter a lower level of reality.

Example would be probably infamous Superman sun dip feat against WF(Never got why it was removed, it fits under QS Powerup criteria). So if powerups happen with valid reasons we cant ignore them unless it is plot indeed stupidity or it is massive anti feat for DC ngl

Honestly, I’m not sure whether Immeasurable Speed should be added to Darkseid or not.

I’m talking about the 1-A key.

We can add it to True Form. 1A in general should be immeasurable

 

[Hayato5652]

Well, given how messy and inconsistent DC Comics cosmology is, we likely cannot automatically scale the character speeds to immeasurable based on power levels without evidence.

Thanks for your opinion. What do you think about revising BDE Type 2 to Type 3?!

I think this definitely needs to be done because the Type 2 is for Tier Low 1-A

 

[Antvasima]

Example would be probably infamous Superman sun dip feat against WF(Never got why it was removed, it fits under QS Powerup criteria). So if powerups happen with valid reasons we cant ignore them unless it is plot indeed stupidity or it is massive anti feat for DC ngl

Because anybody who enters the Sixth Dimension seems to be automatically almost powered up to its scale. It is not a normal state for Superman at all.

 

[Hecky2222]

Because anybody who enters the Sixth Dimension seems to be automatically almost powered up to its scale. It is not a normal state for Superman at all.

tbf he wasnt powered up automatically, he knocked up WF after Sun Dip.

 

[Antvasima]

This was done before in other CRTs; I think it was related to Mandrakk, the Monitor race, and the World Forger.

Okay.

@Elizio33

Can you help out here regarding this issue please?

Thanks for your opinion. What do you think about revising BDE Type 2 to Type 3?!

I think this definitely needs to be done because the Type 2 is for Tier Low 1-A

It is likely fine, but I don't know muuch about that subject.

 

[Hecky2222]

Might be little bit off topic but is there anyone who wants to make profile for Pariah?

 

[Antvasima]

tbf he wasnt powered up automatically, he knocked up WF after Sun Dip.

He was powered up to 1-A automatically by entering the Sixth Dimension, and then further powered up to the World Forger's level via multiple sun dips.

 

[Hayato5652]

Example would be probably infamous Superman sun dip feat against WF(Never got why it was removed, it fits under QS Powerup criteria). So if powerups happen with valid reasons we cant ignore them unless it is plot indeed stupidity or it is massive anti feat for DC ngl

Please don’t derail the discussion.
The entire storyline and events of Justice League 2018 took place in the sixth dimension; that doesn’t mean someone like Batman or Hawkgirl would gain high existence or BDE

Might be little bit off topic but is there anyone who wants to make profile for Pariah?

I don't think so.

 

[Emirp sumitpo]

This is because Tier 1-A applies to characters who, in terms of existence, transcend all spatial dimensions, the temporal dimension, and the overall concept of quantity. As a result, the minimum speed of such characters is automatically upgrade to Immeasurable Speed

I though this was removed a long time ago? Unless I'm missing something.

Everything else in OP is fine I suppose.

 

[Hayato5652]

I though this was removed a long time ago? Unless I'm missing something.

This topic hasn't even been added to the site yet, or maybe I'm mistaken.....

But, you know… a character who perceives a layer of reality as fictionin other words, does R>F is a bit ridiculous if their speed is that slow. That's why I suggested considering an "Immeasurable speed" for all characters with Tier 1-A, to avoid ambiguity.

Everything else in OP is fine I suppose.

Thanks for your opinion

 

[Hecky2222]

I though this was removed a long time ago? Unless I'm missing something.

Everything else in OP is fine I suppose.

No iirc Vsbw still treats 1A as immeasurable

This is why for example AWLBA immeasurable downgrade was rejected cuz they are 1A

 

[Emirp sumitpo]

Oh ok then.

 

[Hayato5652]

Bump

 

[Elyartaker]

Well done, I agree!

 

[Antvasima]

What do we currently need to evaluate here?

 

[Elyartaker]

What do we currently need to evaluate here?

Just adding Immeasurable speed to 1-A and above characters, and updating their BDE type 2 to Type 3.

 

[Hayato5652]

What do we currently need to evaluate here?

I am waiting for the opinions of the staff members, as well as yours, regarding the two proposals I mentioned in the OP

I also think that you are neutral about the proposal of characters with Tier1-A having Immeasurable speed, but what is your opinion on BDE?

To put it briefly, BDE Type 2 used to be divided into two parts: one qualitative and one quantitative.
The quantitative aspect leads to Low 1-A

The qualitative aspect includes the following tiers:

• 1-A
• 1-A+
• High 1-A
• High 1-A+
• 0

My proposal in this OP was that characters who are High 1-A and whose BDE Type 2 has not been revised yet should have it revised,To BDE Type 3

 

[Antvasima]

I also think that you are neutral about the proposal of characters with Tier1-A having Immeasurable speed, but what is your opinion on BDE?

To put it briefly, BDE Type 2 used to be divided into two parts: one qualitative and one quantitative.
The quantitative aspect leads to Low 1-A

The qualitative aspect includes the following tiers:

• 1-A
• 1-A+
• High 1-A
• High 1-A+
• 0

My proposal in this OP was that characters who are High 1-A and whose BDE Type 2 has not been revised yet should have it revised,To BDE Type 3

That seems perfectly reasonable to me.

 

[Hayato5652]

That seems perfectly reasonable to me.

Thank you very much for your opinion, I really appreciate it

 

[Antvasima]

I am waiting for the opinions of the staff members, as well as yours, regarding the two proposals I mentioned in the OP

@Qawsedf234 @Firestorm808 @Elizio33 @SamanPatou

Are any of you willing to help us out here please?

 

[Antvasima]

Thank you very much for your opinion, I really appreciate it

No problem.

 

[Apex_Predator_GX]

Helping with a Minor Bump

 

[Elizio33]

The way I understand current DC Comics cosmology, characters are massively powered up if they enter a higher level of reality, such as the "Sphere of the gods" or the "Sixth Dimension", and massively powered down if they enter a lower level of reality.

Yeah, that's roughly the idea, but characters from the lower realms only access the higher planes through specific methods or intermediaries. Although these methods sometimes alter their nature in order to exist there. Sometimes, they are just allowed by higher forces to exist in their realms like the Word Forger did with the Justice Totality with the Sixth Dimension and the Monitor Sphere.

By the way, I agree with thread.

 

[Hayato5652]

Yeah, that's roughly the idea, but characters from the lower realms only access the higher planes through specific methods or intermediaries. Although these methods sometimes alter their nature in order to exist there. Sometimes, they are just allowed by higher forces to exist in their realms like the Word Forger did with the Justice Totality with the Sixth Dimension and the Monitor Sphere.

By the way, I agree with thread.

I think this concept mostly applies to characters who, for example, would be significantly weakened if they descended from the sixth dimension to a lower reality, and might even become vulnerable to heroes. However, they would still remain noticeably stronger than them...

But I don’t think someone who exists in a lower reality would be upgraded to a higher tier simply by going to the Monitor Sphere or even other realms.

 

[Elizio33]

I think this concept mostly applies to characters who, for example, would be significantly weakened if they descended from the sixth dimension to a lower reality, and might even become vulnerable to heroes. However, they would still remain noticeably stronger than them...

But I don’t think someone who exists in a lower reality would be upgraded to a higher tier simply by going to the Monitor Sphere or even other realms.

Actually, it depends. For example, Boom Tubes alter the size of characters so they can visit the realms of the Sphere of the Gods. The World Forger once altered a portal to the Sixth Dimension so the Justice League could access it without losing their sanity due to the higher-dimensional properties of the realm. However, this is not always the case indeed.

 

[Hayato5652]

Anyway, I have three votes to edit the profiles that are going to receive BDE Type 3

But for the Immeasurable Speed part, I need one more person. If it doesn’t get done, it’s not a big deal.

 

[Hayato5652]

Bump

 

[Antvasima]

Anyway, I have three votes to edit the profiles that are going to receive BDE Type 3

But for the Immeasurable Speed part, I need one more person. If it doesn’t get done, it’s not a big deal.

What are your arguments for immeasurable speed?