A Review of the Strange Swirling Lights Dimension in Dragon Ball

[Azertyhuuh]

How does this implicate me? What you have arbitrarily concluded from this conversation means nothing to me.


I see a statement above that says that their power was so great it broke space and lead to the other dimension. This does not imply your conclusion

No, the evidence clearly shows that Gogeta and Broly’s power surpassed space-time and the limits of the entire universe, as the universe could not contain their energy, which led them to exceed its boundaries entirely and reach that dimension. This dimension is described as a superdimensional space, and the term “superdimensional” refers to dimensions that go beyond the known dimensions (the three spatial dimensions plus time). However, I understand that the term alone is not sufficient without additional context, which is why we have multiple supporting contexts, not just one, the most important being the surpassing of space-time and the limits of the universe.

Universe 7 is indeed four-dimensional, so naturally, this dimension they reached would be five-dimensional. This point has already been explained and the discussion on it concluded. We are now only discussing the size of this dimension. I have already proven that its size exceeds that of the universe itself, based on the evidence and information I provided.

Regarding your last point, it is not as you stated; this very five-dimensional space itself could not withstand the power of Gogeta and Broly, and they ultimately ended up destroying it completely.

 

[SuperNova55555]

Mind you, DoSL could also not contain their power, so it was shattered as well. Yet, that didn’t lead to a higher dimension but rather the previous 4D one. This isn’t an issue if it’s simply meant to say that it broke the wall between the dimensions.

So for stuff like this:

No, the evidence clearly shows that Gogeta and Broly’s power surpassed space-time and the limits of the entire universe, as the universe could not contain their energy, which led them to exceed its boundaries entirely and reach that dimension. This dimension is described as a superdimensional space, and the term “superdimensional” refers to dimensions that go beyond the known dimensions (the three spatial dimensions plus time). However, I understand that the term alone is not sufficient without additional context, which is why we have multiple supporting contexts, not just one, the most important being the surpassing of space-time and the limits of the universe.

Universe 7 is indeed four-dimensional, so naturally, this dimension they reached would be five-dimensional. This point has already been explained and the discussion on it concluded. We are now only discussing the size of this dimension. I have already proven that its size exceeds that of the universe itself, based on the evidence and information I provided.

Regarding your last point, it is not as you stated; this very five-dimensional space itself could not withstand the power of Gogeta and Broly, and they ultimately ended up destroying it completely.

No. The statements provided do not necessitate this conclusion. Unless I missed one that said “power too great for 4-dimensional Space-Time”

 

[Azertyhuuh]

I'm neutral.
The term "superdimensional" does indeed often appear in works to indicate that the cosmology of that work must be 5D or higher. But if it's just a claim without any substance, perhaps it should be reconsidered. I once saw a work that claimed their cosmology was 11D but lacked substance, so it was debunked down to 4D.

Yes, I agree with you that the term "superdimensional" refers to dimensions that exceed the known four dimensions. I understand that this term requires clear contextual support to be formally recognized. Here, I have supported my statement with several contexts, not just one, as follows:

First, Universe 7 is four-dimensional, and it was mentioned in the Gogeta vs. Broly battle that their power exceeded space-time and the entire universe's limits, reaching this dimension. This dimension is classified as superdimensional, and since Universe 7 is four-dimensional, the dimension they reached would be five-dimensional. This aligns perfectly with the meaning of "superdimensional," and therefore, its use here in the context of Dragon Ball is accurate and appropriate.

 

[LuffyRuffy46307]

Using Dokkan Battle is Crazy

In the guides and the novel, it complements what has been said in other media, and DOKKAN BATTLE is only a minor addition to what has been said about this dimension.

 

[IvarUHQ]

Hello everyone. Today I would like to discuss the dimensions of the Strange Swirling Lights in the Dragon Ball movie. I have reviewed the previous discussions on this topic, but they are not accurate, and I would like to correct several important points regarding this battle in this thread.
It has been stated that the Strange Swirling Lights dimension reached by Gogeta and Broly is a super-dimensional realm, which means that the Swirling Lights dimension would be at least 5D, since it was explicitly described as super-dimensional.

Evidence ↓



Additionally, it was clearly stated that this battle surpassed the boundaries of the universe, which led them to reach this realm. What further supports this is that the work itself explicitly described it as a super-dimensional world. Therefore, it would immediately qualify as at least 5D, because the term super-dimensional refers to higher dimensions from 5D and above. The studio also attempted to visually represent a super-dimensional world using CG imagery.

The term used here is explicit: (超次元の), which directly means super-dimensional. This indicates that the world they reached is, at minimum, five-dimensional. The image above illustrates this clearly, and I also have another piece of evidence that I will include below ↓



I believe this is sufficient to upgrade Gogeta and Broly to Low 1-C, and also to upgrade Vegeta, Goku, Gohan, Black Frieza, Moro, Granolah, Vegito, Gas, all Gods, Angels, the Grand Priest, and Zeno’s Guards to this level as well, since they are on Broly’s level or significantly stronger than him, especially those mentioned.

Agree:

Neutral:

Disagree:

I'm going to get a little semantic here because you're wrong.
I'm using Jisho for Japanese. The word 次元（じげん） does indeed mean dimension.
Definitions:
Jigen (次元) dimension (mathematical, physical)

Kanji Cho(超)
The word 超 (chō) is an intensive prefix, not a numerical one.
It means “beyond,” “super,” “extra,” without quantification.
So semantically, it would mean
超次元 = beyond ordinary dimensions. You are making a mistake because
超次元 ≠ space with N specific dimensions.
Furthermore, in mathematics, a five-dimensional space only means five independent degrees of freedom, a coordinate system of type ℝ⁵, an additional real axis that cannot be reduced to the others.
Formal example:
(x₁, x₂, x₃, x₄, x₅) no additional axis is shown, no independent coordinate is defined, no structure equivalent to ℝ⁵ is identifiable. Then, regarding the qualifiers of vsbw, I agree with @TheGreatJedi13 I have nothing to add.

 

[Dagoth_OwO]

 

[LuffyRuffy46307]

 

[Shar122]

DOSL is definitely 5D because it is defined as dimensional wall or the boundaries between dimensions iirc, (the same thing that applies to Buu by tearing the dimensional walls to escape from RoSaT, Buuhan also did that in a grander scale by destroying the fabric of all the space-time continuums in the macrocosm)
Multiple space-time continuums are seperated by a higher dimensional axis due to
orthogonality or additional degree of freedom that spatio temporally seperates them—but that's like every seperated multiple space-time continuums presented in the wiki. (Which are defined as unknown by default)
But I don't think it's even fully Low 1-C given the framework in vsbw right now in this forum specifically, the only thing that can probably save it—is being called "super-dimensional" or "mathematical dimension" but currently the size of the realm is unknown. So unless we got a statement of DOSL being infinite or at least universal, I will disagree with this (for now at least).

 

[Azertyhuuh]

Mind you, DoSL could also not contain their power, so it was shattered as well. Yet, that didn’t lead to a higher dimension but rather the previous 4D one. This isn’t an issue if it’s simply meant to say that it broke the wall between the dimensions.

So for stuff like this:

No. The statements provided do not necessitate this conclusion. Unless I missed one that said “power too great for 4-dimensional Space-Time”

No. It seems you didn’t fully understand what happened, so I’ll provide a precise summary to clarify:

The universe couldn’t withstand the collision between Broly and Gogeta, which led to surpassing the space-time and the boundaries of the entire universe, reaching this dimension. We know that this dimension is a superdimensional one, and the term “superdimensional” refers to dimensions beyond the four known dimensions. However, the term alone isn’t enough without context, so I provided several contexts proving that it is indeed a 5-dimensional space, since Universe 7 is 4-dimensional, making this dimension 5D. This fully aligns with the meaning of “superdimensional” in the context of Dragon Ball.

When Gogeta and Broly entered this dimension, Broly raised his full power to reveal his Monster transformation, and Gogeta also raised his power to Blue. Broly began striking Gogeta with extremely powerful attacks within this dimension, and after exchanging punches and collisions, they eventually destroyed the entire dimension with a single overwhelming strike.

This is different from what happened in the universe, where the battle was less intense, Broly was only in Super Saiyan, and Gogeta was similar, yet even then, the universe could not withstand their power. Inside the dimension, Broly and Gogeta both unleashed their true powers, and the dimension was obliterated by the sheer force of their attacks.
All of this doesn’t change the fact that this is a 5-dimensional space. We are now discussing its size only, and I have already proven that its size exceeds even that of the universe.

 

[Killerdrone123]

The thing is even if we qualify dosl as 5d(4 spatial + 1 temporal) for low 1c we need to prove that it is significant in its 4th spatial axis otherwise it would be just insignificant 5d as it stands we currently don't have any way to prove that

 

[Azertyhuuh]

DOSL is definitely 5D because it is defined as dimensional wall or the boundaries between dimensions iirc, (the same thing that applies to Buu by tearing the dimensional walls to escape from RoSaT, Buuhan also did that in a grander scale by destroying the fabric of all the space-time continuums in the macrocosm)
Multiple space-time continuums are seperated by a higher dimensional axis due to
orthogonality or additional degree of freedom that spatio temporally seperates them—but that's like every seperated multiple space-time continuums presented in the wiki. (Which are defined as unknown by default)
But I don't think it's even fully Low 1-C given the framework in vsbw right now in this forum specifically, the only thing that can probably save it—is being called "super-dimensional" or "mathematical dimension" but currently the size of the realm is unknown. So unless we got a statement of DOSL being infinite or at least universal, I will disagree with this (for now at least).

Yes, I agree with you. As for its size, I have already proven that its minimum size is that of a universe, and possibly even larger, in my reply to Vietthai96. I’ll leave the link so you can see the reply yourself:

Post in thread "A Review of the Strange Swirling Lights Dimension in Dragon Ball"

A Review of the Strange Swirling Lights Dimension in Dragon Ball

Hello everyone. Today I would like to discuss the dimensions of the Strange Swirling Lights in the Dragon Ball movie. I have reviewed the previous discussions on this topic, but they are not accurate, and I would like to correct several important points regarding this battle in this thread. It...

vsbattles.com

This reply is sufficient to prove that its size is at least that of a universe, and possibly greater.

 

[SuperNova55555]

No. It seems you didn’t fully understand what happened, so I’ll provide a precise summary to clarify:

The universe couldn’t withstand the collision between Broly and Gogeta, which led to surpassing the space-time and the boundaries of the entire universe, reaching this dimension. We know that this dimension is a superdimensional one, and the term “superdimensional” refers to dimensions beyond the four known dimensions. However, the term alone isn’t enough without context, so I provided several contexts proving that it is indeed a 5-dimensional space, since Universe 7 is 4-dimensional, making this dimension 5D. This fully aligns with the meaning of “superdimensional” in the context of Dragon Ball.

When Gogeta and Broly entered this dimension, Broly raised his full power to reveal his Monster transformation, and Gogeta also raised his power to Blue. Broly began striking Gogeta with extremely powerful attacks within this dimension, and after exchanging punches and collisions, they eventually destroyed the entire dimension with a single overwhelming strike.

This is different from what happened in the universe, where the battle was less intense, Broly was only in Super Saiyan, and Gogeta was similar, yet even then, the universe could not withstand their power. Inside the dimension, Broly and Gogeta both unleashed their true powers, and the dimension was obliterated by the sheer force of their attacks.
All of this doesn’t change the fact that this is a 5-dimensional space. We are now discussing its size only, and I have already proven that its size exceeds even that of the universe.

You’re just repeating the same thing over-and-over. This doesn’t address my contentions

DOSL is definitely 5D because it is defined as dimensional wall or the boundaries between dimensions iirc, (the same thing that applies to Buu by tearing the dimensional walls to escape from RoSaT, Buuhan also did that in a grander scale by destroying the fabric of all the space-time continuums in the macrocosm)
Multiple space-time continuums are seperated by a higher dimensional axis due to
orthogonality or additional degree of freedom that spatio temporally seperates them—but that's like every seperated multiple space-time continuums presented in the wiki.

Is this the same thing that separates the multiple universes in DB? If it is then it’s clearly not a Low 1-C feat because it didn’t implicate any of the universes in DB

 

[Azertyhuuh]

The thing is even if we qualify dosl as 5d(4 spatial + 1 temporal) for low 1c we need to prove that it is significant in its 4th spatial axis otherwise it would be just insignificant 5d as it stands we currently don't have any way to prove that

No, you are mistaken here. This dimension is indeed significant, and Shar122 has already explained this in his comment, which you can check here:

Post in thread "A Review of the Strange Swirling Lights Dimension in Dragon Ball"

A Review of the Strange Swirling Lights Dimension in Dragon Ball

How does this implicate me? What you have arbitrarily concluded from this conversation means nothing to me. I see a statement above that says that their power was so great it broke space and lead to the other dimension. This does not imply your conclusion No, the evidence clearly shows that...

vsbattles.com

As for what remains, it is only to confirm its size, which I have already done in my reply to Vietthai96.

 

[Vietthai96]

Mind you, DoSL could also not contain their power, so it was shattered as well

Ngl, i don't think Broly and Gogeta truly destroy DoSL, they did broke some parts of it, but not the whole obviously, and the scene where they get back to Living World not really portray they actually shattered it

No, you are mistaken here. This dimension is indeed significant, and Shar122 has already explained this in his comment, which you can check here:

Bro, you need to prove it being significant in size, and Shar comment didn't say anything about it being automatically significant in size

 

[Azertyhuuh]

You’re just repeating the same thing over-and-over. This doesn’t address my contentions


Is this the same thing that separates the multiple universes in DB? If it is then it’s clearly not a Low 1-C feat because it didn’t implicate any of the universes in DB

No, my point is very clear and should be understood as it is, and if you cannot grasp it, that is not my responsibility. So far, you haven’t refuted any of my points.

I repeat for the last time: this dimension is a superdimensional, five-dimensional space, and we have evidence proving this. My explanation makes this clear, and everyone here agrees that it is indeed five-dimensional. What remains is only to confirm its size, which I already did in my reply to Vietthai96.
I will now wait for the moderators’ response on this matter, and it’s better for them to be present so I can discuss it with them properly.

 

[Shar122]

Is this the same thing that separates the multiple universes in DB? If it is then it’s clearly not a Low 1-C feat because it didn’t implicate any of the universes in DB

Yeah Via DBS cosmology page

During the battle between Gogeta and Broly, the two were sent into a strange dimension of swirling lights after their sheer power broke the dimensional walls separating the realms, distorting space-time itself.

 

[SuperNova55555]

Ngl, i don't think Broly and Gogeta truly destroy DoSL, they did broke some parts of it, but not the whole obviously, and the scene where they get back to Living World not really portray they actually shattered it

Yea, this is what I’m saying as well. They just did the same thing to exit it as they did to enter it. It’s even the same exact animation lol and the real world is completely fine

 

[Killerdrone123]

No, you are mistaken here. This dimension is indeed significant, and Shar122 has already explained this in his comment, which you can check here:

Post in thread "A Review of the Strange Swirling Lights Dimension in Dragon Ball"

A Review of the Strange Swirling Lights Dimension in Dragon Ball

How does this implicate me? What you have arbitrarily concluded from this conversation means nothing to me. I see a statement above that says that their power was so great it broke space and lead to the other dimension. This does not imply your conclusion No, the evidence clearly shows that...

vsbattles.com

As for what remains, it is only to confirm its size, which I have already done in my reply to Vietthai96.

I Don't think just being bigger than universe is gonna make it significant otherwise neutral space would have been low 1c

You need to prove that universe is infinitesimaly small compared to it like it sees universe as a flat structure or a way to prove that it's 4th spatial axis has infinite volume which again is kind of difficult to do with context we have

 

[ThienDe01]

Yes, I agree with you that the term "superdimensional" refers to dimensions that exceed the known four dimensions. I understand that this term requires clear contextual support to be formally recognized. Here, I have supported my statement with several contexts, not just one, as follows:

First, Universe 7 is four-dimensional, and it was mentioned in the Gogeta vs. Broly battle that their power exceeded space-time and the entire universe's limits, reaching this dimension. This dimension is classified as superdimensional, and since Universe 7 is four-dimensional, the dimension they reached would be five-dimensional. This aligns perfectly with the meaning of "superdimensional," and therefore, its use here in the context of Dragon Ball is accurate and appropriate.

If your point is correct, then I agree; I find this debate very interesting.

 

[Azertyhuuh]

Bro, you need to prove it being significant in size, and Shar comment didn't say anything about it being automatically significant in size

I clarified in my previous comment regarding its size that it shows no clear boundaries, and we have a clear scene that supports this, which cannot be ignored. This dimension resembles space, with no gravity, and its background is filled with strange, constantly shifting and moving colors. Looking at this, it becomes evident that this dimension has no clear limits. Even after Gogeta and Broly accelerated within it at speeds far exceeding the speed of light, nothing appeared to suggest boundaries—it extended without any visible end. Clearly, it has no defined limits, and we cannot claim that it isn’t at least the size of a universe given all this clear evidence.

I believe the point is clear: at the very least, its size is equivalent to that of a universe based on this evidence and the scene we see. We cannot ignore this. No clear boundaries were observed for this dimension, and it seems to extend infinitely in all directions along with those strange lights. Therefore, if anyone disagrees, they must provide proof that it is not at least the size of a universe.

 

[Vietthai96]

I clarified in my previous comment regarding its size that it shows no clear boundaries, and we have a clear scene that supports this, which cannot be ignored. This dimension resembles space, with no gravity, and its background is filled with strange, constantly shifting and moving colors. Looking at this, it becomes evident that this dimension has no clear limits. Even after Gogeta and Broly accelerated within it at speeds far exceeding the speed of light, nothing appeared to suggest boundaries—it extended without any visible end. Clearly, it has no defined limits, and we cannot claim that it isn’t at least the size of a universe given all this clear evidence.

I believe the point is clear: at the very least, its size is equivalent to that of a universe based on this evidence and the scene we see. We cannot ignore this. No clear boundaries were observed for this dimension, and it seems to extend infinitely in all directions along with those strange lights. Therefore, if anyone disagrees, they must provide proof that it is not at least the size of a universe.

No, you can't just say that because in the visual we don't see a clear boundary, meaning it is universe-sized., and while the speed argument isn't bad, it isn't something we can use to determine space size; they are just mostly circling around each other in the fight, and it is not like they have infinite speed. So again, it could be very well, large dimension, but we still don't know its exact size, which is something that determine DoSL get tiered or not

 

[Nullflowerblush]

You people make the exact same thread with the exact same arguments supported by the exact same "evidence" every three months. When is a Discussion Rule in order?

 

[ProfectusInfinity]

You people make the exact same thread with the exact same arguments supported by the exact same "evidence" every three months. When is a Discussion Rule in order?

The CRT is bad, but how many times has this particular argument been proposed, exactly?

 

[StekFence]

I do think the part where destroying the Dosl doesn’t affect the normal world is quite bad for this crt. I think it suggests possibly that they didn’t destroy the whole thing, as then Gogeta Blue’s actions/FP Broly would have destroyed the living world before the dbs tped belt away

 

[Azertyhuuh]

No, you can't just say that because in the visual we don't see a clear boundary, meaning it is universe-sized., and while the speed argument isn't bad, it isn't something we can use to determine space size; they are just mostly circling around each other in the fight, and it is not like they have infinite speed. So again, it could be very well, large dimension, but we still don't know its exact size, which is something that determine DoSL get tiered or not

Alright, based on this evidence, we can say that this dimension is extremely vast, as no clear boundaries are visible. However, its exact size cannot be determined with certainty without additional evidence. That said, I now have a suitable and important piece of evidence to support this point, which is as follows:

We know that the clash between Beerus and Goku (Super Saiyan God) alone was sufficient to erase Universe 7 entirely. When I refer to Universe 7, I do not mean merely a simple universe-sized space, but a complete cosmic structure that contains multiple worlds and dimensions within it, as well as countless galaxies and even realms with infinite characteristics. In other words, that clash was genuinely capable of erasing Universe 7 and everything within it.
However, Goku later learned how to properly control his ki. This is something well known among Saiyans, gods, and most Dragon Ball characters, as they are able to focus their power and prevent it from spreading uncontrollably and destroying the universe every time they fight. When Goku first transformed into Super Saiyan God, he was unable to fully control his power, which is why his energy nearly erased everything. Later on, he learned how to concentrate his power into a single point instead of releasing it on a universal scale, thus preventing unintended cosmic destruction.

The purpose of explaining all of this is to establish that Goku’s level of power and influence extends across enormous scales, reaching beyond the universe itself and even threatening the Kaioshin Realm, which exists outside the universe. This indicates a level of impact that goes beyond conventional universal size, and this is something explicitly supported by the series.

Now, when we look at Broly and Gogeta within this dimension, we find that their destructive power was sufficient to destroy structures on an infinite scale or even beyond that, and even to erase entire universes within a greater cosmological framework, as well as what may exist beyond it. Therefore, regardless of how large this dimension was, Broly and Gogeta were capable of destroying it in any case, regardless of its size. This conclusion is supported by evidence, and I do not believe anyone can reasonably deny it.
Furthermore, the level of combat between Broly and Gogeta is vastly superior to the clash between Beerus and Goku, which further strengthens this argument. I believe this is more than sufficient.

 

[IvarUHQ]

Alright, based on this evidence, we can say that this dimension is extremely vast, as no clear boundaries are visible. However, its exact size cannot be determined with certainty without additional evidence. That said, I now have a suitable and important piece of evidence to support this point, which is as follows:

We know that the clash between Beerus and Goku (Super Saiyan God) alone was sufficient to erase Universe 7 entirely. When I refer to Universe 7, I do not mean merely a simple universe-sized space, but a complete cosmic structure that contains multiple worlds and dimensions within it, as well as countless galaxies and even realms with infinite characteristics. In other words, that clash was genuinely capable of erasing Universe 7 and everything within it.
However, Goku later learned how to properly control his ki. This is something well known among Saiyans, gods, and most Dragon Ball characters, as they are able to focus their power and prevent it from spreading uncontrollably and destroying the universe every time they fight. When Goku first transformed into Super Saiyan God, he was unable to fully control his power, which is why his energy nearly erased everything. Later on, he learned how to concentrate his power into a single point instead of releasing it on a universal scale, thus preventing unintended cosmic destruction.

The purpose of explaining all of this is to establish that Goku’s level of power and influence extends across enormous scales, reaching beyond the universe itself and even threatening the Kaioshin Realm, which exists outside the universe. This indicates a level of impact that goes beyond conventional universal size, and this is something explicitly supported by the series.

Now, when we look at Broly and Gogeta within this dimension, we find that their destructive power was sufficient to destroy structures on an infinite scale or even beyond that, and even to erase entire universes within a greater cosmological framework, as well as what may exist beyond it. Therefore, regardless of how large this dimension was, Broly and Gogeta were capable of destroying it in any case, regardless of its size. This conclusion is supported by evidence, and I do not believe anyone can reasonably deny it.
Furthermore, the level of combat between Broly and Gogeta is vastly superior to the clash between Beerus and Goku, which further strengthens this argument. I believe this is more than sufficient.

In fact, you are making a false implication. The fact that Broly and Gogeta were superior to Goku SSJ God in terms of power and AP does not necessarily imply that the size of DOSL is minimum universal. You yourself say that the size “doesn't matter.” In fact, you have just conceded what others are telling you. He asks you if this dimension has a significant size, i.e., minimum universal or even infinite, and you say the size doesn't matter? And even a significant size is not enough, as was discussed regarding the neutral zone in Dragon Ball.

 

[Azertyhuuh]

You people make the exact same thread with the exact same arguments supported by the exact same "evidence" every three months. When is a Discussion Rule in order?

No, this time it’s different. This time it will be accepted, because up to this point I have presented everything necessary, addressed every point, and refuted all objections clearly. The issue here is not the evidence itself, but how that evidence is used and understood. Evidence is valid or invalid based on how it is applied and by whom, not merely on its existence.

 

[Azertyhuuh]

In fact, you are making a false implication. The fact that Broly and Gogeta were superior to Goku SSJ God in terms of power and AP does not necessarily imply that the size of DOSL is minimum universal. You yourself say that the size “doesn't matter.” In fact, you have just conceded what others are telling you. He asks you if this dimension has a significant size, i.e., minimum universal or even infinite, and you say the size doesn't matter? And even a significant size is not enough, as was discussed regarding the neutral zone in Dragon Ball.

You did not understand what I meant, and the neutral zone has nothing to do with the point you are raising here. The neutral zone is indeed five-dimensional, and this has been proven easily. Anyone with sufficient experience can demonstrate this, and proving its size was never difficult in the first place.

Let me clarify my point properly now. First of all, I never said that size is irrelevant. On the contrary, I provided evidence showing that Gogeta and Broly were capable of destroying the entire dimension even if it were infinite in size, and this is the core point I am making. Goku’s power in Super Saiyan God alone was sufficient to erase Universe 7 entirely, including the Kaioshin Realm, which exists outside the universe itself. Universe 7 is not merely of cosmic size; it contains innumerable galaxies, worlds, and dimensions—meaning vast and even infinite scales.

Despite this, Goku, using only Super Saiyan God, reached a level of power capable of erasing all of that from existence. Based on this, Gogeta and Broly—whose power far surpasses that level—would naturally be capable of destroying the entire dimension regardless of its size, whether infinite or merely cosmic. Their destructive range is sufficient to affect and annihilate structures of infinite scale.

Therefore, even if we were to assume, for the sake of argument, that we do not have a completely explicit visual confirmation of the dimension’s size—despite the fact that it appears boundless in all directions—we still possess sufficient narrative and logical evidence that Gogeta and Broly can destroy it entirely, whether it is infinite or cosmic in scale.

 

[PhantomØ4]

TS is NOT passing through and ppl are still burning time going back and forth.

 

[Ultimuru]

Yes, the anime contradicts the manga, that’s true. However, the anime is official, and on this forum, anime characters are classified separately from manga characters. The anime is also a reliable source. Are you denying what happened in the anime? I’ve never seen anything like that before, and your words won’t change anything, my friend.

Wait, what the hell? The anime and manga are different, yes, but when have I ever used anime lines to interpret the manga??? Really strange. The anime and manga are not completely different, and everyone knows that. Also, everything I mentioned to you about the anime is from the anime itself. Goku is 2-C in the anime as well, and that is acceptable. I’ll even give you proof that this is from the anime too:



I’ve seen everything except your evidence. Where is it? Until now, you haven’t refuted anything or provided any proof. Claiming that everything should be raised to Low 1-C… that’s really laughable

First, what did I tell you? Don’t you understand? I said that after Gogeta and Broly reached this five-dimensional space, they fought inside it, and then they destroyed that dimension. Honestly, I don’t understand what punches have to do with destroying something. This is also the evidence: even the five-dimensional space they entered could not withstand their power and was destroyed:



Yes, same thing—I provided the evidence above. They destroyed that entire dimension, which couldn’t even handle their power. This gives it full destructive effect. No, it’s not just an “effect,” it’s actual destruction:





No, the evidence is clear, and I’ve repeated it for you in this reply.

Yes, I already provided proof that they destroyed it. I don’t understand why you keep repeating “manga” and “anime” over and over when this happened in a movie, not in the anime or manga at all. I guess you didn’t know that in the first place.

I am confused about that links you sent. Are you sure they are not fake? I have raw pdf of the novel and the closest thing I found is that:

Spoiler: Spoiler

そして二人は距離を取り、同時に超エネルギー波を撃ちはなった！


ズガアァァァァァ!!!!


高エネルギーが弾けて、一気にはじける！
そのいきおいと衝撃がゆがみ、二人は壊れた次元の壁の中で、さらに激しくぶつかりあう。
かつてないパワーとパワーのぶつかりあいだ。





「はぁぁぁぁっ!!」
「がぁぁぁぁぁっ!!」



ほんのわずかに押され気味のブロリーが、焦れて叫ぶ。


ためこまれた気を放出すれば、ブロリーの体に変化があらわれはじめた。
筋肉が盛りあがり、髪の色は緑に変わる！


ゴジータが驚愕とともに目を見開いた。


「超サイヤ人ブロリーのフルパワーだ！」

Also why are you using statements from animators? They not only have nothing to do with an actual plot or the story itself, but also super dimensional images is just a term for modeling in CGI:

https://www.semanticscholar.org/paper/On-the-Texture-of-Multi-spectral-and-Images-Ning/9862232d86efc2376617c75b516adc597f5f40ee

 

[LordGriffin1000]

Had to rewatch the scene to remember what happened and I'm not seeing how they destroyed it in its entirety. There's no statement saying they did (Is there? I don't see it in the OP) and honestly it's almost the same visual as when they got in (the cracking of the screen), to me, it just looks like they unleashed enough power to break through into the dimension, then did it again to return. The screen fragmenting and fading doesn't mean anything because it fragmented and shattered when they got in, so should I assume they blew up the universe? No because they go back and no actual damage was done to Universe 7.

Also, if buff Broly and SSB Gogeta are releasing their power to the point were they destroyed a 5-D structure of significant size like you claimed. When SS Broly and SS Gogeta (who aren't infinitely weaker) unleashed their power that allowed them to get to that dimension, they would have blown up all of universe 7 when the first fragmenting happened on collision ki control be damned especially when one of the has lost his mind.

Let me clarify my point properly now. First of all, I never said that size is irrelevant. On the contrary, I provided evidence showing that Gogeta and Broly were capable of destroying the entire dimension even if it were infinite in size, and this is the core point I am making. Goku’s power in Super Saiyan God alone was sufficient to erase Universe 7 entirely, including the Kaioshin Realm, which exists outside the universe itself. Universe 7 is not merely of cosmic size; it contains innumerable galaxies, worlds, and dimensions—meaning vast and even infinite scales.

Universe 7 containing all that would make it cosmic in scale still (since some works of fiction use it to simply mean "vaste" and a universal space that contains dimensions, galaxies and such would be vaste), also, Goku being able to destroy an infinite structure doesn't mean they destroyed the entirety of the dosl, "they can" is not proof "they did", especially when your evidence is just a the screen fragmenting and fading which they did in a similar manner to get to that dimension but Universe 7 was damaged.

Despite this, Goku, using only Super Saiyan God, reached a level of power capable of erasing all of that from existence. Based on this, Gogeta and Broly—whose power far surpasses that level—would naturally be capable of destroying the entire dimension regardless of its size, whether infinite or merely cosmic. Their destructive range is sufficient to affect and annihilate structures of infinite scale.

Therefore, even if we were to assume, for the sake of argument, that we do not have a completely explicit visual confirmation of the dimension’s size—despite the fact that it appears boundless in all directions—we still possess sufficient narrative and logical evidence that Gogeta and Broly can destroy it entirely, whether it is infinite or cosmic in scale.

Again, them being able to destroy structures of infinite size is not confirmation they destroyed the entirety of the dosl.

As for the super dimension statement. I'm one of the people that would prefer more than just something like that for evidence, it's a dimension with not much going for it in terms of information, but even so, that's not my main concern. Regardless, like many others, I disagree with this.

 

[Cipher72]

Oh wow since unfollowing, this thread has progressed a lot anyways I scrolled through some stuff and I still don't see any proof for them actually scaling to said Super-dimension like I pointed out in very first comment. Even after OP said he would update it I still can't see it in the OP. Now all stuff about whether it actually qualifies for a significant higher dimension or not aside. Even if we treat it as one doesn't the entire notion of Gogeta and Broly supposedly destroying it yet it having no effect on the original world contradict it being higher dimensional ?
As pointed out by @Super_Nova
Additionally I have the same stance as them.

If the feat is then to be understood as them merely breaking the wall between dimensions (like what they did to enter it in the first place), then sure…? But that just means the feat itself never affected the whole dimension so it doesn’t qualify for Low 1-C of of that

I personally interpret this as them breaking the dimension wall to enter the Swirling lights dimension and then exiting via breaking the Dimension wall again and I think that makes the most sense considering how U7 didn't get blown up or Earth for that matter. So yea put me in disagree

 

[Cipher72]

TS is NOT passing through and ppl are still burning time going back and forth.

OP is running a generational gauntlet

 

[Zanesucksatlife]

Also fra if I haven't made it obvious
Put me down for disagree.

 

[Azertyhuuh]

Had to rewatch the scene to remember what happened and I'm not seeing how they destroyed it in its entirety. There's no statement saying they did (Is there? I don't see it in the OP) and honestly it's almost the same visual as when they got in (the cracking of the screen), to me, it just looks like they unleashed enough power to break through into the dimension, then did it again to return. The screen fragmenting and fading doesn't mean anything because it fragmented and shattered when they got in, so should I assume they blew up the universe? No because they go back and no actual damage was done to Universe 7.

Also, if buff Broly and SSB Gogeta are releasing their power to the point were they destroyed a 5-D structure of significant size like you claimed. When SS Broly and SS Gogeta (who aren't infinitely weaker) unleashed their power that allowed them to get to that dimension, they would have blown up all of universe 7 when the first fragmenting happened on collision ki control be damned especially when one of the has lost his mind.


Universe 7 containing all that would make it cosmic in scale still (since some works of fiction use it to simply mean "vaste" and a universal space that contains dimensions, galaxies and such would be vaste), also, Goku being able to destroy an infinite structure doesn't mean they destroyed the entirety of the dosl, "they can" is not proof "they did", especially when your evidence is just a the screen fragmenting and fading which they did in a similar manner to get to that dimension but Universe 7 was damaged.

Again, them being able to destroy structures of infinite size is not confirmation they destroyed the entirety of the dosl.

As for the super dimension statement. I'm one of the people that would prefer more than just something like that for evidence, it's a dimension with not much going for it in terms of information, but even so, that's not my main concern. Regardless, like many others, I disagree with this.

No, that is not the case. Let me explain to you exactly what happened between Gogeta and Broly.

After Gogeta’s energy collided with Broly’s energy, this clash caused them to surpass spacetime and the boundaries of the entire universe, as stated in the evidence above, reaching this dimension. This dimension was described as a super-dimensional one, and the term super-dimensional refers to dimensions that transcend the four known dimensions. However, I know that this term alone, without clear context, would not be sufficient proof. That is why we do have clear contexts.

We already know that Universe 7 is indeed four-dimensional, and since they surpassed spacetime and the boundaries of the entire universe, this means that this dimension would be five-dimensional. This perfectly matches the term super-dimensional that was used to describe it. There is also another piece of evidence (which I mentioned above) stating that Gogeta and Broly destroyed this five-dimensional dimension in order to return to the Living World, and it was stated that the power of Gogeta and Broly surpassed the limits of the universe itself and reached this dimension, which truly makes it a five-dimensional one.

This dimension was able to withstand the power of Legendary Super Saiyan Broly along with Gogeta Blue. All the evidence and information confirm that this dimension is indeed five-dimensional. At this point, we are only discussing its size. As for the structure of this dimension, I personally do not see any clear boundaries in any direction, which makes its size at least universal or possibly unbounded. For the sake of argument, we can say at least universal.

If this is not accepted as sufficient evidence, then a 2-A rating would be perfectly appropriate for them for destroying a five-dimensional dimension, because even the smallest five-dimensional structure would transcend an uncountably infinite number of four-dimensional universes, since an uncountably infinite number of four-dimensional universes could still form only a small part of a five-dimensional structure. However, considering the apparent size of the dimension, I personally see it as universal in scale, and therefore I consider Low 1-C to be an appropriate rating. If you are not convinced by this, then 2-A would be the second most appropriate classification here.

 

[Zanesucksatlife]

Last

No, that is not the case. Let me explain to you exactly what happened between Gogeta and Broly.

After Gogeta’s energy collided with Broly’s energy, this clash caused them to surpass spacetime and the boundaries of the entire universe, as stated in the evidence above, reaching this dimension. This dimension was described as a super-dimensional one, and the term super-dimensional refers to dimensions that transcend the four known dimensions. However, I know that this term alone, without clear context, would not be sufficient proof. That is why we do have clear contexts.

We already know that Universe 7 is indeed four-dimensional, and since they surpassed spacetime and the boundaries of the entire universe, this means that this dimension would be five-dimensional. This perfectly matches the term super-dimensional that was used to describe it. There is also another piece of evidence (which I mentioned above) stating that Gogeta and Broly destroyed this five-dimensional dimension in order to return to the Living World, and it was stated that the power of Gogeta and Broly surpassed the limits of the universe itself and reached this dimension, which truly makes it a five-dimensional one.

Site your sources? Proof any scans? You haven't sent any proof that this is true no scans 0 evidence saying this.

This dimension was able to withstand the power of Legendary Super Saiyan Broly along with Gogeta Blue. All the evidence and information confirm that this dimension is indeed five-dimensional. At this point, we are only discussing its size. As for the structure of this dimension, I personally do not see any clear boundaries in any direction, which makes its size at least universal or possibly unbounded. For the sake of argument, we can say at least universal.

Site your sources. And how do you know they were fully using said "Universe" destroying power? Literally.

If this is not accepted as sufficient evidence, then a 2-A rating would be perfectly appropriate for them for destroying a five-dimensional dimension, because even the smallest five-dimensional structure would transcend an uncountably infinite number of four-dimensional universes, since an uncountably infinite number of four-dimensional universes could still form only a small part of a five-dimensional structure. However, considering the apparent size of the dimension, I personally see it as universal in scale, and therefore I consider Low 1-C to be an appropriate rating. If you are not convinced by this, then 2-A would be the second most appropriate classification here.

You need scans for this too , for the 2A stuff,
Also as I said before with L1C, there's many animes that have done that Exact Same THING where's their upgrades? Where there's upscaling?? Once again nowhere because that's not enough proof just like this, you are lacking proof. You gave 0 proof that it's universal in size, which once again association fallacy which means it can't be used which literally debunks your whole argument. You are associating that every dimension is the Same size! Where is the proof for that? Send and site your sources, cause what you sent is not even convincing. Also how do you know it's not a parallel dimension?? You know parallel dimensions with special rules can operate like swirling lights? We aren't applying the same to every verse, or else major upscaling will be applied! Also when I say site your sources, I mean give links at least to back up your claims. You haven't given any link to where this info can be found, Imgur links? Sure, now give more links detailing all of what you're saying. As I'll say this before like in that other thread, this is VSB wiki where you need to site your sources. I don't care how others argue on other plats, those platforms don't apply here
Also edit: saying words is not evidence cause those words don't have sources for them. Nobody takes a word as factual unless they can back it up.

 

[Ultimuru]

No, that is not the case. Let me explain to you exactly what happened between Gogeta and Broly.

After Gogeta’s energy collided with Broly’s energy, this clash caused them to surpass spacetime and the boundaries of the entire universe, as stated in the evidence above, reaching this dimension. This dimension was described as a super-dimensional one, and the term super-dimensional refers to dimensions that transcend the four known dimensions. However, I know that this term alone, without clear context, would not be sufficient proof. That is why we do have clear contexts.

We already know that Universe 7 is indeed four-dimensional, and since they surpassed spacetime and the boundaries of the entire universe, this means that this dimension would be five-dimensional. This perfectly matches the term super-dimensional that was used to describe it. There is also another piece of evidence (which I mentioned above) stating that Gogeta and Broly destroyed this five-dimensional dimension in order to return to the Living World, and it was stated that the power of Gogeta and Broly surpassed the limits of the universe itself and reached this dimension, which truly makes it a five-dimensional one.

This dimension was able to withstand the power of Legendary Super Saiyan Broly along with Gogeta Blue. All the evidence and information confirm that this dimension is indeed five-dimensional. At this point, we are only discussing its size. As for the structure of this dimension, I personally do not see any clear boundaries in any direction, which makes its size at least universal or possibly unbounded. For the sake of argument, we can say at least universal.

If this is not accepted as sufficient evidence, then a 2-A rating would be perfectly appropriate for them for destroying a five-dimensional dimension, because even the smallest five-dimensional structure would transcend an uncountably infinite number of four-dimensional universes, since an uncountably infinite number of four-dimensional universes could still form only a small part of a five-dimensional structure. However, considering the apparent size of the dimension, I personally see it as universal in scale, and therefore I consider Low 1-C to be an appropriate rating. If you are not convinced by this, then 2-A would be the second most appropriate classification here.

Here is the link to raw novel.

Things you sent don't appear here. There is no mention of boundaries of universe or anything like that. Your scans are fake.

Anyone feel free to translate it on your own. I won't be using MTLs

 

[Azertyhuuh]

Last

Site your sources? Proof any scans? You haven't sent any proof that this is true no scans 0 evidence saying this.


Site your sources. And how do you know they were fully using said "Universe" destroying power? Literally.


You need scans for this too , for the 2A stuff,
Also as I said before with L1C, there's many animes that have done that Exact Same THING where's their upgrades? Where there's upscaling?? Once again nowhere because that's not enough proof just like this, you are lacking proof. You gave 0 proof that it's universal in size, which once again association fallacy which means it can't be used which literally debunks your whole argument. You are associating that every dimension is the Same size! Where is the proof for that? Send and site your sources, cause what you sent is not even convincing. Also how do you know it's not a parallel dimension?? You know parallel dimensions with special rules can operate like swirling lights? We aren't applying the same to every verse, or else major upscaling will be applied! Also when I say site your sources, I mean give links at least to back up your claims. You haven't given any link to where this info can be found, Imgur links? Sure, now give more links detailing all of what you're saying. As I'll say this before like in that other thread, this is VSB wiki where you need to site your sources. I don't care how others argue on other plats, those platforms don't apply here
Also edit: saying words is not evidence cause those words don't have sources for them. Nobody takes a word as factual unless they can back it up.

Of course, I have precise evidence, and I will bring it and present it here for you all.

 

[Nullflowerblush]

Here is the link to raw novel.

You're viewing the Mirai Bunko release, the junior novel. Broly has two novelizations: the Mirai Bunko release and the Jump J Books release, which is the light novel version. They are different books with unique text.

 

[Zanesucksatlife]

Of course, I have precise evidence, and I will bring it and present it here for you all.

Ok then bring the Evidence cause so far I haven't seen anything.