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Nice leaving out the context bro..
Edit: Nvm I came back and yea ngl imma conceed on that ig i did respond to you first myb g but it changes nothing for the actual arg
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My Hero Academia General Discussion Thread #18
- Thread starter TheRustyOne
- Start date
Edit: Nvm I came back and yea ngl imma conceed on that ig i did respond to you first myb g but it changes nothing for the actual arg
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Nice leaving out the context bro.. The first message you referenced is literally you responding to me first
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Im responding to MochOath not you
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????
Im responding to MochOath not you
read the edit bro
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i tried to read your comment and thought about answering but then see stuff like this and perished that thought
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Well? I guess ill take that as you wont respond and you agree to disagree and yes they literally never talked about removing his regen but I will gladly take my word back on that if u can provide a SS of it.
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Thank you
I can conceed on that but it still doesnt change much as ngl his fingers growth literally act as a form of regen anyway
MANOFGOD7
He/Him- 188
- 59
Ah well this really isn't too good.
My main point for scaling Shigaraki to the radio waves is because someone has actually moved faster than the radio waves, which is teen AFO.
Once again, where is the calc stacking at??
Snail speed is absolutely legit for this feat my friend. That is literally what happened. Shiggy appeared frozen 4 panels straight,which qualifies it for the slow motion feat than your claim that 'he did not move' doesn't qualify it. For example : can we view Luffy's light beam dodging feat as one of the slow motion feats because Luffy called the beams 'too slow'?? Absolutely not. Whyyyyyy?? Because him being able to dodge the beams gives him the right to brag that they were 'too slow',and so it is absolutely possible that he didn't actually view them as snail speed. Which is why the page emphasizes that such slow motion must be demonstrated well. What about Zenitsu's case where he called Kaigaku 'too slow' because he failed to tag him?? That is also in the same realm,because Kaigaku was tagging him in the very next moments.
Three reasons why 'he did not move' is not enough to discard the calc :
1. Speed boost with fa jin has already done this before : During his fight with Lady Nagant,the speed boost Deku got from fa jin made him fast enough to snail speed her fastest bullet when he was blitzing it,it was moving. It is not false to say that gearshift can replicate the same thing,since gearshift's most busted aspect is speed. In fact,Gearshift did it on a greater extent.
2. Perception speed and movement speed relationship : Perception speed is widely regarded to be equal or even higher than movement speed. If your perception speed gets trashed on,it definitely means your movement speed is nothing for your opp.
3. Demonstration by anime to show that Shiggy was truly outclassed in the speed aspect : In the anime, they made Shiggy perceive Deku after Deku had arrived in front of him,yet he failed to even instinctively react. In F470 and F471,we can see that Deku was maintaining one position,and after still being in that position in F472, Shiggy perceived him. The last frame in the link repeated for sometime,and Shiggy could not attempt hitting Deku before Deku changed position and started hitting him.
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Never seen it. Why is it not added here then :d
Lack of statement. No one is stated to move at light speed, nor comparable to the "radio waves".
Someone used Radio waves and the opponent were able to escape that, which we have it at Relativistic+. But this isn't the same as them having a stated speed. (We'd just say their speed scale to the radio waves completely otherwise lol)
You're basically saying snail speed can be used for any perception blitz. Snail speed is based on movement, using the speed of something that moves.
Shigaraki wasn't moving, so only perception speed is usable, not snail speed.
That's not snail speed, the bullet is just way slower than his speed, but not snail level as it still moves. (Even if it was snail speed, this wouldn't be relevant to the feat being talked here)
Perception speed being higher than your movement speed just makes your argument worse, as the point is that Shigaraki must be moving that fast while the feat is happening.
Not something like "he can go that fast even though he isn't moving rn".
This just means perception/reaction blitz, not snail speed.
Soupywolf5
Any/All- 6,212
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This would fall under the “hiding calculation” section on the calc stacking page:
“Hiding calculations is the practice of trying to avoid calculating a feat in order to be able to use the result in another calculation. In other words it is the practice of trying to fool people into not noticing that calc stacking is being used.
This usually occurs if a feat is quantified per a rule of thumb instead of precisely calculated. A typical example would be a character dodging a bullet from a short distance being ranked as "Supersonic" and then using that ranking to calculate the speed of another character, whose speed one can compare to the former in some feat.
While it is acceptable to rank a character by such a self-evident feat without a calculation, one should keep in mind that the unwritten calculation is only skipped due to being trivial, but is still the justification for the ranking. Hence calc stacking will still be an issue for such feats.”
In this case, Shigaraki being placed at SoL via radio wave shenanigans (Ignoring that he’s only Rela+) would just be considered skipping a calculation, and so calculating Midoriya blitzing that would still be considered Calc stacking
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hah! i knew there was a term for that too
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SoL movement speed for MHA will always be a hard sell. Especially when it comes to projectiles that characters like Shiggy or AFO fire. Cause if someone had that level of travel speed, those abilities would be redundant.
Also there's nothing physics-wise to explain that level of travel speed especially since high-speed movement does cause real environmental effects in the MHA world.
Like I would buy it if Deku had SoL travel speed via Gear Shift since that ability has been outright stated to bend the rules of reality/physics and been demonstrated to completely ignore inertia. So it breaking other rules of physics would not be shocking.
But for Shiggy, we have no explanation for his speed beyond biological enhancements + unnamed quirks (mostly him spamming his original quirk). Plus in general the "equal" parts of Deku Vs Shiggy were pretty much offscreen so we never got to see Shigaraki use multiple quirks. Also in Final War, Horikoshi did an overall poorer job naming or explaining the quirks Shigaraki/AFO used compared to Kamino for instance.
Like with the quirks AFO/Shiggy already has, it could be easy to explain SoL travel speed e.g. by:
Overall, I do feel writers have to do way more before I or other readers can buy SoL or FTL movement speed. And MHA hasn't done it so far.
Also there's nothing physics-wise to explain that level of travel speed especially since high-speed movement does cause real environmental effects in the MHA world.
Like I would buy it if Deku had SoL travel speed via Gear Shift since that ability has been outright stated to bend the rules of reality/physics and been demonstrated to completely ignore inertia. So it breaking other rules of physics would not be shocking.
But for Shiggy, we have no explanation for his speed beyond biological enhancements + unnamed quirks (mostly him spamming his original quirk). Plus in general the "equal" parts of Deku Vs Shiggy were pretty much offscreen so we never got to see Shigaraki use multiple quirks. Also in Final War, Horikoshi did an overall poorer job naming or explaining the quirks Shigaraki/AFO used compared to Kamino for instance.
Like with the quirks AFO/Shiggy already has, it could be easy to explain SoL travel speed e.g. by:
- - turning into light considering we see them use multiple light-based abilities and if one of them has a transformation aspect lightspeed could be doable ala' Kizaru.
- - a speed quirk with specific qualities that ignore physics ala' Gear Shift.
- - some degree of spatial warping e.g warping space in front of them to decrease the distance between point A and B which would technically achieve SoL without actually having to move at such speeds. Considering AFO has shown at least 2 space-type quirks + whatever went into Warp Gate, this could be doable.
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AFO for instance shows 4 light-based quirks:
Shigaraki shows:
There's also Navel Laser that formally belonged to AFO.
Given the redundancy with all these light beam powers, it honestly would have been cooler to see more unique applications of light (again like Kizaru's light transformation) rather than the same beam beam beam most of which can't even be scaled to lightspeed since they aren't explained at all.
- Unnamed Glowing Baby Quirk
- Cataclysmic Light Blast/Impure Beam
- Radio Waves
- Unnamed Laser Beams fired from structures on his back
Shigaraki shows:
- Reflect (destroyed)
- Refract (possibly destroyed)
- Radio Waves
- Unnamed Yellow lasers
- Unnamed purple giant laser
There's also Navel Laser that formally belonged to AFO.
Given the redundancy with all these light beam powers, it honestly would have been cooler to see more unique applications of light (again like Kizaru's light transformation) rather than the same beam beam beam most of which can't even be scaled to lightspeed since they aren't explained at all.
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I dont think anyone believed in mha having Light Speed travel speed anyway
The best feat in series right now is like mhs with deku who can apparently travel 200km instantly if he used 100% of OFA (or Faux 100%)
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Let me just disassemble that real quick.
1. The laws of physics don't matter. We have a girl who can turn off one of the fundamental forces of the universe on selective objects, a woman who can alter the laws of reality itself, a guy who shouts manga words into existence, future sight and souls, literal ******* Ghosts.
MHA isn't the Boys. The powers have never been grounded
2. "Environmental Damage" yeah because moving at Mach fuxk doesn't do that only light speed is where you get problems right.
If environmental damage was a real problem and not just a throw away line to show that All Might is at 20% normally then
- Overclock kills everyone around him by moving several hundreds of times faster than a bullet.
- Every time a non super durable character is grabbed mid run/flight they go splat. Last time I checked no one has speed force in MHA.
3. "Inconsistency"
If that was a valid arugment then CW Flash would be licking Turbo Okarun's dust. Yes characters don't always move at these crazy speeds but that's because the author doesn't take everything into consideration while drawing action sequences.
It's the same reason the smooth brain CW Flash doesn't just speed blitz and cuff every villain at the start of the episode.
So no there are no barriers preventive MHA from surpassing Light speed. And we already have a quirk we know moves at light speed. EMP Waves.
1. The laws of physics don't matter. We have a girl who can turn off one of the fundamental forces of the universe on selective objects, a woman who can alter the laws of reality itself, a guy who shouts manga words into existence, future sight and souls, literal ******* Ghosts.
MHA isn't the Boys. The powers have never been grounded
2. "Environmental Damage" yeah because moving at Mach fuxk doesn't do that only light speed is where you get problems right.
If environmental damage was a real problem and not just a throw away line to show that All Might is at 20% normally then
- Overclock kills everyone around him by moving several hundreds of times faster than a bullet.
- Every time a non super durable character is grabbed mid run/flight they go splat. Last time I checked no one has speed force in MHA.
3. "Inconsistency"
If that was a valid arugment then CW Flash would be licking Turbo Okarun's dust. Yes characters don't always move at these crazy speeds but that's because the author doesn't take everything into consideration while drawing action sequences.
It's the same reason the smooth brain CW Flash doesn't just speed blitz and cuff every villain at the start of the episode.
So no there are no barriers preventive MHA from surpassing Light speed. And we already have a quirk we know moves at light speed. EMP Waves.
MANOFGOD7
He/Him- 188
- 59
My fault lol. It is there but I did not say it well enough.
Whattttt?? So without statements, it is not usable??
Why are we still talking about relativistic+ ma boi, I thought out speeding means you are faster(therefore,FTL)
This is also not a case of stated speeds. I did not say it was stated that Radio waves are light speed in MHA. I did not say Shiggy was stated to be lightspeed either.
I'm not saying that snail speed can be used for all perception blitz feats. I said something entirely different here,looks like you forgot about it.
Ma boy, look at it again. We SEE that for some few frames, the bullet was not moving AT ALL. It was even pointed out in his recent death battle in DB.
Ah I see what you are doing
. Why isn't it relevant?? I'm making claims that the movement did not matter,and supporting it that if a power up of 55% was able to make him properly snail speed something moving,why shouldn't a power up of 75% make him do same even if in that instance the something he brought dowm to snail speed wasn't moving?? In which way?? I do not really understand this.
Oooooooo okay reaction blitz
. Look at the definition for reaction speed. It involves MOVEMENT. It is basically movement speed that has been seperately clasified or noticed because it happens over short distances.Man,do you know how snail speed works in power scaling?? Look at the requirements for snail speed at the slow motion section. Snail speed means that the object or character got STRAIGHT UP FROZEN in the perspective of the character of interest who is moving massively faster,but the reason for the freezing of that object or character isn't because time got frozen or stopped. So snail speed is not heavily based on movement of the object or character of reference,it is heavily based on the movement of the character of interest,because the character of interest became so fast, the other side became as slow as a snail or something else to him.
For example, the bullet Deku blitzed did not casually decide to stop moving at its top speed and start moving at snail speed,its top speed BECAME snail speed for Deku because Deku BECAME massively faster than it.
I'm not saying this. I'm saying that "Whether he moved or not does not matter at all,Deku would have still slowed him down to snail speed with his speed, because it was well demonstrated that he made Shigaraki snail speed. BESIDES,Shiggy was given a chance to move and couldn't move"
Extra : this calc also depends very well on the anime.
XSOULOFCINDERX
They/Them- 26,554
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So question. How strong do you guys think the Rivet Stab Bakugo caught with his teeth was? Also that moment has so much ******* aura like holy shit.
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Toddler level.
MANOFGOD7
He/Him- 188
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Really?? I don't think so. Let's see...........
I have said many times that I'm scaling Shiggy to the radio waves because someone has straight up moved faster than the radio waves. Being able to move faster than the radio waves grants the character FTL speed,right??
Therefore,while it is acceptable to rank Shigaraki FTL by such a self evident feat without a calc,you should keep in mind that I did not give him the FTL ranking he deserves,but rather the speed ranking of what he blitzed, which has a known speed. The unwritten calc is skipped, but is still the justification for his ranking. Hence calc stacking is not an issue for the feat/calc.
This is why I linked the OG calc in my calc, because my aim was to update that calc. The OG calc scaled Shiggy's speed to something with known speed, and he's properly scaled to be far faster than it,and that is definitely acceptable,innit?? And some comments in the OG calc pointed out that this is a mistake, because logically he is supposed to be scaled to the speeds far faster than the thing,and there were calcs present about how high his speed is from blitzing that thing. But it was further pointed out that such is rather considered calc stacking,so leaving it at that is a reasonable lowball to the feat/calc.
MANOFGOD7
He/Him- 188
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Doesn't work for my calc son.
Once again,your Shiggy > Deku arguments proved to me that you ain't strongly knowledgeable about MHA.
Like the way you think near high end nomu > 98% complete Shiggy
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this is literally hiding calculations, therefore calc stacking
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your calc is a prime example of that
MANOFGOD7
He/Him- 188
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Do you understand the rule??
The rule said even though Shiggy is supposed to be comfortably FTL from that feat, putting him at FTL in the calc is calc stacking even if I give him the baseline FTL value, because the feat is blatantly FTL, but the value of the FTL speed is not calculated. I'm not even scaling him faster,I'm scaling him equal to the radio waves.
To break it down further, the calc stacking would have been scaling Shiggy to FTL based on this feat,but I'm not doing that.
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That was Spearlike Bones, the quirk he stole from his mom, not Rivet Stab.
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something is going on here?
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MANOFGOD7
He/Him- 188
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Ah well, I'm being blamed for something I did not do
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On one hand, Shigaraki didn't die. On the other hand, it's hard to say that Deku was holding back here either, especially with the first couple of these were technically fatal injuries if it wasn't for Shigaraki's molting and the unexpected intervention of the Toga Doubles.
I have my own take about this entire debacle but I reckon several pages of debate might not be a good thing to address lol
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please bro the original argument went on for way to long and I dont feel like doing it against for several months
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Finally post time skip Inko reveal. And he is still fatherless.
Machmatej
He/Him- 1,642
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he's just working overseas, trust
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I definitely feel that Deku’s dad was gonna be All For One but Horikoshi realised that twist was a bit silly so went back on it. It would explain why Horikoshi years ago said that Deku’s dad would show up but then the story only hints to him once at the beginning.
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It's really surprising AFO doesn't have any kids despite living for 100's of years.
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Actually makes some sense to me. He'd risk having a kid who would inherit the All For One Quirk or some variation of it; that kid could potentially steal All For One's Quirk so in the worst case scenario he'd be fathering someone who could make him powerless.
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Doesn't he let OFA constantly go despite the potentially of it eventually surpassing him and causing his death.
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