My Hero Academia General Discussion Thread #18

[LIFE_OF_KING]

gotta join the niche verses. it must be fun to wank without restrictions

 

[CastoriceTheFifth]

gotta join the niche verses. it must be fun to wank without restrictions

Dw chinamen verses hate us

 

[Dalesean027]

You mean the Shigaraki Deku literally had to sacrifice his quirk for to just barely defeat? And Deku never held back. He literally had no way of defeating Shigaraki outside of soul hax.

Thats because deku wanted to save him, they state quite a few times thay Deku can just obliterate him in one shot and its one of his viable wincons if he chose not to save tenko but he went the hard road instead, i mean you gotta remember deku was casually delimbing shigaraki several times in the fight too, had shiggy not have regen he would be cooked at several points in the fight since deku sliced off fingers, arms, and a leg too I think. Also made bro a donut too so like yeah with Fa Jin alone he could completely obliterate shigaraki but stacking gearshift there's really no stopping deku and shiggy would legit get 1 tapped into dust

 

[Anonymous_Learner]

It's so funny seeing people swear to God that Deku HAD to transfer to win, that Deku was going all out trying to kill but didn't, that Shiggy's top 1 but'll gladly ignore Deku nearly killed him in his most defensive form and with Deku telling nana that he refuses to just kill Shigaraki with a massive charged Fajin attack because he thinks Shiggy's just put a lid on everything and he won't stop till the lid is gone

 

[Therefir]

All I know is that Deku had plenty of chances to punch Shigaraki's head off but chose not to, since he wanted to save him.

 

[CastoriceTheFifth]

Really loving how it takes more extrapolations to say he can’t one shot Shigaraki than it is to say he can.

 

[57Dev]

Long rant incoming but Shigaraki only looks weaker because he is written to be a incompetent idiot on the same as CW Flash in the second war.

Shigaraki would have way better chances of winning if he didn't fight with the intelligence of a booger eating toddler.

Everyone says how Deku has several wincons but chose the hard path but let's talk about Shigaraki's stupidity for a second.

Now there is one great writing excuse Horikoshi gave himself with the quirk destruction thing so when he doesn't use his quirks like a ****** you can just say Star destroyed them. So let's go with what we saw.

1. Use your mega finger dinger form to spread decay over a massive area and just jump from point to point, making so many decay spots that Deku can't take out all of them before they spread to 100's of Kilometres and wipe out the entire ground area.

2. Instead of Kicking Deku to MT Fuji a place you want to reach first and start decaying wouldn't it be smarter to kick him to the opposite side towards the ocean ? This gives both you and your decay wave a massive headstart.

Or even better kick him into space or the ocean. Deku is already low on oxygen as is. If Shigakari can just follow him there and hold him Deku would literally die from Oxygen deprivation, something that Shigaraki can survive with no problems.

Especially with Gearshift eating his oxygen supply even more.

3. He has an attack combo that can send Deku flying 50 kilometres away and give him a head injury while he is wrapped in black Whip meaning even his best defense is still going to take massive damage from this attack.

And he never ******* uses it again this stupid ****.

4. His body should have All the quirks used during Omni Factor unleashed Right.

So that means he has a giant laser, missiles, black lightning, black orbs, his own version black Whip far bigger, longer and thicker than Deku has.

And this ******* mud sucker uses none of that instead trying to engage a clearly stronger and faster combatant in close range combat when he has a entire arsenal of long range weapons.

Shigaraki wasn't stupid before the second war. We literally spend an entire arc on him making his combat strategy better while fighting against Machia and Redestro. Even in season 6 he shows optimal uses of his quirks and body instead of walking people down like he supposed to be Micheal Myers or something.

In the first war after losing his quirks, he immediately uses his enhanced body to quickly neutralize Endeavour and Ryukyu. He then tries to kill everyone there Asap.

But in the second war he is now at the same level of IQ as CW Flash.

He could have killed every person in the coffin and destroyed it with physical might alone but since Horikoshi has decided their shall be no stakes, he just ***** around until Deku comes.

And no AFO being in charge doesn't excuse anything. AFO's literal introduction is trying to one shot kill Heroes on sight and then putting a hole in Jeanist. Even in second war he is constantly trying to kill but the plot armor of the heroes is so insanely batshit that he could tear Hawks in half mortal Kombat style and he would still survive in the ******* epilogue with some nano machine bullshit.

Atleast All For One was actually trying.

****. The more I think about how badly written the fights the more it pisses me off

 

[Ghengiroo115]

When Nana and Deku talk about obliterating Tomura instantly, they’re talking about a hypothetical situation where Deku abandons his ideals and does anything to win. In other words, they’re talking about something Deku can do but won’t.

When Kudo talks about how Deku can never beat Tomura in a fight of strength, they’re all talking under the context of Deku sticking to his ideals, considering only abilities he would use.

There’s not much Deku can do against a guy who can regenerate, adapt, steal all his powers with a single touch and dodge almost all of his attacks without either instantly killing him or finding a more unorthodox solution like the quirk transfer. Also not only do both Deku and Nana believe he can OHKO Tomura, but none of the other vestiges directly counter that claim. The closest you get is the Kudo moment, but that’s not only later but is talking in a different context.

 

[Mommyleona]

Ok now i feel like your trolling cause your literally disregarding my entire first major argument of me literally explaining why it means he can

I didnt disregard anything

I literally did disprove you now your essentially saying "NUH UH NO YOU DIDNT!"

You didnt

oh yea they def trolling

Why do peoply always think unpopular take = trolling?

 

[Mommyleona]

Thats because deku wanted to save him

"Save him" by dismantling his soul/spirit?
Maybe at best spiritually free him from hatred

they state quite a few times thay Deku can just obliterate him in one sho

They didnt actually, only time is Nana's breakdown which i already addressed

i mean you gotta remember deku was casually delimbing shigaraki several times in the fight too

Sure, that's why Shigaraki has regen and all other things he can use to avoid that

had shiggy not have regen he would be cooked at several points in the fight since deku sliced off fingers, arms, and a leg too I think

"Boxers when you take away their hands"

Also made bro a donut too so like yeah with Fa Jin alone he could completely obliterate shigaraki but stacking gearshift there's really no stopping deku and shiggy would legit get 1 tapped into dust

It's so funny seeing people swear to God that Deku HAD to transfer to win, that Deku was going all out trying to kill but didn't, that Shiggy's top 1 but'll gladly ignore Deku nearly killed him in his most defensive form and with Deku telling nana that he refuses to just kill Shigaraki with a massive charged Fajin attack because he thinks Shiggy's just put a lid on everything and he won't stop till the lid is gone

All I know is that Deku had plenty of chances to punch Shigaraki's head off but chose not to, since he wanted to save him.

Im just gonna drop this explanation so yall can stop jumping me

Really loving how it takes more extrapolations to say he can’t one shot Shigaraki than it is to say he can.

It's 1 flawed reasoning vs multiple better reasonings for Shigaraki being stronger overall

When Nana and Deku talk about obliterating Tomura instantly, they’re talking about a hypothetical situation where Deku abandons his ideals and does anything to win. In other words, they’re talking about something Deku can do but won’t.

When Kudo talks about how Deku can never beat Tomura in a fight of strength, they’re all talking under the context of Deku sticking to his ideals, considering only abilities he would use.

Nice headcanon but i dont think so

 

[Dalesean027]

Its okay to just be wrong btw, no one is like ******** on you or thinking less of you but like at least just admit when you're wrong

 

[Mommyleona]

Its okay to just be wrong btw, no one is like ******** on you or thinking less of you but like at least just admit when you're wrong

Sure, if im wrong im wrong, doesnt mean im wrong right now

 

[GunshyFever]

Its okay to just be wrong btw, no one is like ******** on you or thinking less of you but like at least just admit when you're wrong

Family members when you admit that you're wrong

 

[JoeDM021]

I didnt disregard anything

You didnt

Why do peoply always think unpopular take = trolling?

Cause near the end you basically started disregarding with essentially "nuh uh" so it makes me think your trolling

I don't think your trolling because of your take (shiggy > deku) I think your trolling cuz of how you sometimes respond to mine and others arguments against it

I literally did its right there a page or two back if u wanna check again + Ghengiro also providing their arg saying Deku CAN do it but wont cause of ideals and wanting to save tenko

"Save him" by dismantling his soul/spirit?
Maybe at best spiritually free him from hatred

Save him by LITERALLY destroying the HATE surrounding his soul to reach tenko himself in the soul and LITERALLY STOP tenko from killing the rest of his family in a core memory to HELP him dawg I thought it was obvious that deku LITERALLY stated DIRECTLY that he wanted to save tenko

They didnt actually, only time is Nana's breakdown which i already addressed

I first addressed on how it should mean deku can obliterate shigaraki and can then you provided a counter argument by saying its just an emotional thing then I provided a counter argument by saying just cause its emotional doesnt mean its wrong or not possible and yes it does show several times deku couldve killed shigaraki any time he wanted if he decided to actually go for the kill whether deku is easily blitzing and putting holes in shigaraki's chest or even direct statements saying he could obliterate shigaraki even while literally crippled but won't cause of ideals and him wanting to save tenko.

Sure, that's why Shigaraki has regen and all other things he can use to avoid that

While shigaraki's regen IS a problem in the case of deku holding back on shiggy he has shown multiple times when he doesnt hold back as much he has shown a capacity to put giant holes in his chest without even putting all his force into it + a heavily weakened, embers, barely standing 45% deku literally obliterating a shiggyafo. Your forgetting that shigaraki's regen quirk can likely be damaged although this one seems to be a lot harder to damage it is possible and idk if it has the same weakness as the one in the SnS fight but it is possible to damage the quirk and of course completely obliterating shiggy so he has nothing to regen from in which nana considers that a possibility despite deku's literal crippled state.

"Boxers when you take away their hands"

Yea ngl if u took away shigaraki's regen he wouldve lost a long time ago unless deku held back a lot more to compensate for no regen.

Im just gonna drop this explanation so yall can stop jumping me

Oh god not this REDDIT explanation again.. Ill address it in a bit since its quite long

It's 1 flawed reasoning vs multiple better reasonings for Shigaraki being stronger overall

Dawg I think you mean to flip that cause thats literally whats happening rn. iirc all you have to go off of is literally one kudo statement and a statement saying deku doesnt know how to handle his regen (with his current ideals and want to save tenko) and thats it meanwhile the opposing side bringing up several arguments that if deku abandoned his ideals or stopped holding back completely have the capacity to completely obliterate shigaraki which is a win con but didnt cause of his ideals and want to save tenko.

Nice headcanon but i dont think so

So your just saying "nuh uh".. See this is why I think your trolling at least address it properly

 

[Mommyleona]

Cause near the end you basically started disregarding with essentially "nuh uh" so it makes me think your trolling

You equating what i say to "nuh uh" does not mean all i said is nuh uh, also when what you said is simply not supported i can just disagree with it

I think your trolling cuz of how you sometimes respond to mine and others arguments against it

Well im telling you that im not

Deku CAN do it but wont cause of ideals and wanting to save tenko

again those are NOT correlated things, you have to prove that he CAN actually do it first, proving that he doesnt want to do it does NOT mean he can, i cant explain this any better

Save him by LITERALLY destroying the HATE surrounding his soul to reach tenko himself in the soul and LITERALLY STOP tenko from killing the rest of his family in a core memory to HELP him dawg I thought it was obvious that deku LITERALLY stated DIRECTLY that he wanted to save tenko

And what would happen to Shigaraki's body after that?

I first addressed on how it should mean deku can obliterate shigaraki and can then you provided a counter argument by saying its just an emotional thing then I provided a counter argument by saying just cause its emotional doesnt mean its wrong or not possible

And it being emotional or not doesnt prove that he can do it in the first place. Like, he HAS TO stop Shigaraki, whether he can or not is NOT something that's up to discussion, he's the only hero who can possibly do it, so ofc she's gonna say that he has to try with everything he has, but again it's not an evidence of whether or not he can or cant do it

yes it does show several times deku couldve killed shigaraki any time he wanted if he decided to actually go for the kill whether deku is easily blitzing and putting holes in shigaraki's chest or even direct statements saying he could obliterate shigaraki even while literally crippled but won't cause of ideals and him wanting to save tenko.

On the opposite there are direct statements that he cant do it, and him putting holes in Shigaraki doesnt mean he can kill him and as i said that's before shigaraki absorbed afo, which is stated to made him stronger than before
Yall keep saying "multiple statements" and it only ever comes back to milking that single line from Nana

he has shown a capacity to put giant holes in his chest without even putting all his force into it

Yeah when Shigaraki is quirkless and weaker than later on, yeah cool
Not to mention it was not "one punch" he literally had to hit Shigaraki in the chest i think 4-5 times and only on the last punch he managed to do it, and it's STILL nowhere near "annihilating his entire body"

a heavily weakened, embers, barely standing 45% deku literally obliterating a shiggyafo

remind me again, with the help of like how many different people exactly? and THIS is condition Shiggyafo was at that moment BTW, he's literally turning to dust

Your forgetting that shigaraki's regen quirk can likely be damaged although this one seems to be a lot harder to damage it is possible and idk if it has the same weakness as the one in the SnS fight

"likely" "maybe" "idk"

but it is possible to damage the quirk and of course completely obliterating shiggy so he has nothing to regen from in which nana considers that a possibility despite deku's literal crippled state.

It's not that Nana considers that a "possibility" (already that possibility is doing some heavy lifting), but that she sees no other way to win at that point, so either Deku somehow does it or they lose, not that Deku actually could always easily do it, yall fr missing the point

Yea ngl if u took away shigaraki's regen he wouldve lost a long time ago unless deku held back a lot more to compensate for no regen.

"Deku would've lost long time ago if we took away float and gearshift"

Dawg I think you mean to flip that cause thats literally whats happening rn.

No?

iirc all you have to go off of is literally one kudo statement and a statement saying deku doesnt know how to handle his regen (with his current ideals and want to save tenko) and thats it

1. That's not all if you had actually read the link
2. That's already twice more than 1 Nana statement LMAOOOO

meanwhile the opposing side bringing up several arguments that if deku abandoned his ideals or stopped holding back completely have the capacity to completely obliterate shigaraki

"several arguments" backed up by nothing but 1 statement from an emotionally distressed character taken out of the context
saying that "yeah actually deku could one shot if abandoned his ideals" requires evidence that he can actually do it in the first place, which again, comes back to Nana statement or Deku fighting far weaker Shigaraki, both are incredibly flawed

So your just saying "nuh uh"

It's literally a headcanon, stop claiming that IM THE one saying "nuh uh" when the other side provides NOTHING to support their interpretation

See this is why I think your trolling at least address it properly

There's nothing to address. The person just claimed that X is Y as a fact, why? because they said so. "Nana is talking about Deku abandoning his ideals, so he actually can!!" but "Kudo is NOT talking about Deku's full capabilities (for some reason) and just means that Deku cant do it when holding back!!!(supported by nothing at all)"

 

[JoeDM021]

Alright time to address the reddit explanation

"Daigoro Banjo says that they have to find a way to deal with Shigaraki's regeneration wall. And until then, it's feeling like a losing battle. This is after Yoichi said that bringing down Shigaraki is their goal. Source: My Hero Academia Chapter 411"

While its true that OFA's goal is to kill and defeat tomura shigaraki doesn't mean DEKU wants to. He has directly stated in both the manga and anime directly in the context of tomura that he and I quote "Wants to save that little kid" and he has actually gone directly against the vestiges telling him to kill tomura giving a whole hero speech before hand which is just to show us his ideals and his want to save tenko (Watch MHA Season 6 Ep. 18 if you dont believe me). Now that I've put this up for context the entire argument of deku not knowing how to get past the regen wall, kudo saying hes not a match in strength anymore, and Banjo saying the regen wall is annoying can all just be dismissed with the fact they can easily be factoring in deku's ideals and wanting to save tenko and while deku does admit that he will kill him if he absolutely needs to but only has a last resort if he cant save tenko and the entire reason they broke into his soul was so deku could reach tenko and save him.

"Kudou straight-up says that Shigaraki became too powerful after absorbing All For One (which he did in chapter 376), and that Deku doesn't stand a chance pitting strength against strength. People will try to refute this by saying this is after Deku got the Gearshift recoil. But Kudou does not bring that as the reason and simply says it is because Shigaraki became too strong after absorbing AFO. Shigaraki absorbed AFO long before Deku activated Gearshift for the second time anyway. Source: My Hero Academia Chapter 413"

Throwing up the previous provided argument that this can easily be all under the context of deku's ideals and wanting to save tenko to be put into consideration + While yes tomura became much stronger after absorbing the AFO quirk keep in mind this is disregarding that entirely after that that stronger shigaraki is only going relative with a crippled, heavily injured, weakened izuku after that despite that supposed power up showing that theres still a gap between prime deku and prime shigaraki. Also about the part where it says he became to strong and this was before deku's second gearshift activation is kinda directly contradicted by that deku can put holes in shigaraki's chest after that statement with ease kinda showing that deku is still stronger then shigaraki considering the gap in ap you would have to have to put a large hole in their chest and not even a fist sized one but one literally so large you could fit a kid in there . Even a stronger shigaraki then the absorbed AFO quirk one where hes taken Danger Sense is still only going relative with a crippled & heavily weakened deku like I brought up before in this same argument further solidifying that theres still a gap between prime deku and prime shiggy.

"The author specifically made a note in Chapter 414 saying that the Second had a last-ditch proposal because pitting strength against strength is a losing prospect when facing the villain's overwhelming Decay & Regeneration. This is literally an omniscient Point of View. If Deku could have one shot Shigaraki whenever he wanted to, he could have mentioned that this was because he wanted to save Shigaraki and not kill him. Source: My Hero Academia Chapter 414"

While this is true this is kinda directly contradicted by the story itself showing deku is still heavily if not going toe to toe with a prime shiggy while being crippled and heavily weakened + that nana statement also directly contradicting this authors note along with several other hints that deku could beat shiggy if he didnt hold back. Also they literally just kinda admitted that deku wanted to save shigaraki if that means anything. So you can easily push away this authors note because its directly contradicted by the story and dont give me that "Oh sO YoUr EvEn DiSrEgaRdInG AutHoR StAtemEnT'S? BiAs!" im disregarding it because its directly contradicted by the story.

"Deku admits that he hasn't come up with an answer yet with how to deal with a superpowered body that can regenerate and inflict instant death. Which proves that he is not sure if he can kill Shigaraki in the first place as that is a way to deal with him. But he generally says that he doesn't know how to deal with him. Source: My Hero Academia Chapter 406"

Already countered this in a previous argument but I'll bring it up again since it wasn't properly refuted yet. First the story notes multiple times that Deku wants to SAVE tenko whether through direct dialogue/statements or direct showings through literally the entire deku being in shiggys soul sequence . Then theres also the fact that its been stated that the way to kill shigaraki is to completely obliterate him which is also shown through when deku has to completely obliterate shiggyafo and we dont know if shigaraki can regen from nothing so its wrong to say that you can refute that by saying he could also regenerate from nothing. In which the story has shown if deku didnt hold back and stacked fajin + gearshift + 100% of OFA he could easily pull such a feat off if a prime shigaraki is going rela with a no Danger Sense, gearshift downside crippled, heavily weakened, barely holding body together with black whip izuku then its kinda obvious the gap is still pretty large between a prime deku and a prime shigaraki.

"Here too. Deku says that he still needs a clue about how stop him for real. And he needs it quick. Source: My Hero Academia Chapter 410"

This is basically just supporting the previous argument in which I can also say that at this point deku just simply hasn't considered completely obliterating shigaraki since when Nana suggests that he should he doesn't really say "I already thought of that" or "No that wouldn't work" either so that means he actually could've considered it. Plus you can just throw my entire argument before this one on top of it to.

"People like to bring up the Viz Translation scan where Shigaraki says "he might not manage to put himself back" as a way to say he would not be able to regenerate and die. But that's a mistranslation. All the original japanese text said is that Shigaraki might not have walked away unscathed. Which doesn't prove he would be killed All it proves is that he would have suffered damages. It doesn't say that it would go beyond his regeneration. That would completely go against what Daigoro Banjo said prior in ch 411 if Deku can just one-punch him out of it. I already debunked it anyway. 無事 means unscathed, nothing more. Source: My Hero Academia Chapter 412 (Japanese Version)"

This is kinda right he obviously wouldve suffered damage and I dont think it translates to "not being able to put himself back together" and obviously shiggy doesn't know the full extent of deku's power since he's holding back on him.

"This is what he says in the anime version too. Source: My Hero Academia Anime Season 8 Episode 5"

Same reasoning as before just to support in which i can agree on but doesnt disprove my previous arguments.

"Shimura encouraging Deku to annihilate Shigaraki in a single blow while leaving nothing behind does not prove he has the capacity to do it. She just commands him to give up on "saving" Tenko and just annihilate him. It was never said to be guaranteed to work. Also, this Deku was after Gearshift's recoil. So he is weakened and unable to use Gearshift anyway. So this would be directly contradicted by what Kudou said later on. Source: My Hero Academia Chapter 412"

I've already provided my entire argument for why this would be true and it hasn't been properly refuted yet so just go back a page or two for my argument for this. However this is more so to contradict Kudo's statement rather then kudo's statement contradicting this since it suggests deku CAN do it but wont cause of ideals.

"My Hero Academia Season 8 Episode 5's official English Summary says that the balance of power shifts between Izuku and Shigaraki when the latter steals a Quirk from One For All. Implying the latter became stronger than the former. Link: https://m.imdb.com/title/tt5626028/episodes/?season=8&ref_=ttep)"

This is directly contradicted by the fact the entire fight afterwards is shown the two going relative with each other and even izuku winning in the end because of that fact. This is also because deku at this point was focused on saving shigaraki so he was slowly weakened over time by shiggy while shiggy grew stronger to close the gap between the two which actually kinda further proves that before hand there was a massive gap (and technically still is) between prime deku and prime shigaraki since prime shiggy is only going rela with this heavily weakened izuku.

"My Hero Academia Season 8 Episode 6's Preview has Deku say that transferring One For All to Shigaraki to directly hit his mind is the only way of winning they have left."

This is kinda obvious since ATP izuku's major quirks like gearshift or fajin are essentially out of play and this deku is in an extremely crippled state literally holding himself together with black whip. Although this could also be considering in the fact that Deku still wants to save tenko hence thats their only way of quote on quote "winning". While deku is still thinking of saving tenko in this moment.

Thats my counter arg for the blog thank you for your time.

 

[Mommyleona]

Deku is the yoriichi of his verse ngl

Muzan with prep time, access to every single twelve kizuki, and home advantage via Infinity Fortress lost to Yoriichi in like a 1 Vs 20

current day Muzan > Yoriichi but yall are not ready

 

[Machmatej]

current day Muzan > Yoriichi but yall are not ready

first sensible thing you've said

 

[Mommyleona]

first sensible thing you've said

crazy slander

 

[Anonymous_Learner]

current day Muzan > Yoriichi but yall are not ready

Modern day muzan got slammed by Yoriichi with prep time and every advantage known to man

 

[57Dev]

 

[Mommyleona]

Modern day muzan got slammed by Yoriichi with prep time and every advantage known to man

Muzan 1v1 with no prep would win

 

[Machmatej]

Modern day muzan got slammed by Yoriichi with prep time and every advantage known to man

pure agenda in that thread btw

 

[JoeDM021]

You equating what i say to "nuh uh" does not mean all i said is nuh uh, also when what you said is simply not supported i can just disagree with it

it literally is through the nana statement and direct showings like deku dominating shiggy in a fight

Well im telling you that im not

Ok then that's good that your serious about it then although if you say later down the line that your trolling ill bring this back up.

again those are NOT correlated things, you have to prove that he CAN actually do it first, proving that he doesn't want to do it does NOT mean he can, i cant explain this any better

I literally provided an entire argument for why it means he CAN do it but WONT cause of ideals and wanting to save tenko I've literally said it before a page or two ago you can see for yourself . So I can't explain this any better either!

And what would happen to Shigaraki's body after that?

Literally nothing . What your thinking about is when AFO essentially destroyed shigaraki's vestige/soul in which he notes after he took over that it began to damage the body so AFO took his place to stop that. When deku was destroying the hate barrier to reach tenko it didn't affect his physical body much if at all.

And it being emotional or not doesnt prove that he can do it in the first place. Like, he HAS TO stop Shigaraki, whether he can or not is NOT something that's up to discussion, he's the only hero who can possibly do it, so ofc she's gonna say that he has to try with everything he has, but again it's not an evidence of whether or not he can or cant do it

Ok to give a base if a statement is made we question if its from a trustable source and if its direct enough or not in its context. Nana's statement comes from a trustable source since shes been viewing the entire fight with shigaraki along side the other vestiges and knows shigaraki personally while essentially Nana is telling deku to stop trying to save tenko and to just obliterate him despite seeing his current physical state. It is direct enough in its context since saying "You have to obliterate him and leave nothing behind!" is as direct as it can be. So as a base I can say we can take this statement at face value that Deku CAN obliterate shigaraki if he wanted/needed to but WONT cause of his ideals and want to save tenko.

On the opposite there are direct statements that he cant do it, and him putting holes in Shigaraki doesnt mean he can kill him and as i said that's before shigaraki absorbed afo, which is stated to made him stronger than before
Yall keep saying "multiple statements" and it only ever comes back to milking that single line from Nana

All I'm seeing from your side is the kudo statement and the regen statement arguments really. While thats true it just shows that deku when holding back less can put large holes in shigaraki with ease also like I said multiple times before that same prime shiggy is going rela with a crippled, heavily weakened, no danger sense Izuku . There's more so direct showings then statements but theres also that shigaraki statement that if deku attacked him he wouldnt come out unscathed (which is hella vague but it can mean he could die since he doesn't know the extent of izuku's full might) if you want more statements of it.

Yeah when Shigaraki is quirkless and weaker than later on, yeah cool
Not to mention it was not "one punch" he literally had to hit Shigaraki in the chest i think 4-5 times and only on the last punch he managed to do it, and it's STILL nowhere near "annihilating his entire body"

Cause deku atp was still wanting to save tenko and iirc he only used gearshift in that moment and not with the combined force of fajin and 100% of OFA which would very likely be enough to completely obliterate him if just gearshift did allat considering how much of a physical boost fajin and 45-100% is in physical stats. While yes its from a weaker shiggy that doesnt mean much since we know he simply only got "stronger" since then but not how much stronger and it likely isnt much since like ive said like 200 times before.. He is going rela with a crippled, no danger sense, barely holding himself together with black whip izuku (or ig carnage deku for short) who should be SIGNIFCANTLY weaker then before due to obvious reasons.

remind me again, with the help of like how many different people exactly? and THIS is condition Shiggyafo was at that moment BTW, he's literally turning to dust

Thats cause ATP deku literally had nothing but the stat stacking quirk while in its ember state and thats it . While yes this shiggyafo was in a physically weakened state this mf was still taking on the entirety of class 1-a by himself and he was still holding himself together after the first punch from deku.

"likely" "maybe" "idk"

It's cause I'm not sure on the regen part but its likely.

It's not that Nana considers that a "possibility" (already that possibility is doing some heavy lifting), but that she sees no other way to win at that point, so either Deku somehow does it or they lose, not that Deku actually could always easily do it, yall fr missing the point

Not really doing heavy lifting when its supported through direct showings and another statement from shiggy. Well yea thats because of deku's current crippled state lmao. Yea obliterating shigaraki atp (besides entering his soul and tryna save tenko) is there only way of killing him yet still considers it a possibility and I alr provided an argument by saying he can and I never said it would be "easy" I just said that he can simply do it.

"Deku would've lost long time ago if we took away float and gearshift"

Thats actually debatable but your not ready for that argument yet .

No?

Yes?

1. That's not all if you had actually read the link
2. That's already twice more than 1 Nana statement LMAOOOO

1. Yes that is all there is LOL.. 1 regen statement and 1 kudo statement (oh and ig theres 1 banjo statement so ig ill correct that to 3) but still not enough lol!
2. Nana statement, Shiggy Statement, several direct showings, said same prime shiggy going rela with a heavily crippled deku. Cant get more obvious then that

"several arguments" backed up by nothing but 1 statement from an emotionally distressed character taken out of the context
saying that "yeah actually deku could one shot if abandoned his ideals" requires evidence that he can actually do it in the first place, which again, comes back to Nana statement or Deku fighting far weaker Shigaraki, both are incredibly flawed

Several arguments backed up by 1 statement that is as direct as it can be in which I provided an argument why it would be true multiple times before, several showings and inverse implications, and a shiggy statement. This is literally one of the major points we argued over and your saying I never gave supporting evidence despite me and others literally showing you screenshots and explaining several inverse implications . The last part just supports deku being above shiggy.

It's literally a headcanon, stop claiming that IM THE one saying "nuh uh" when the other side provides NOTHING to support their interpretation

We literally are your just ignoring it

There's nothing to address. The person just claimed that X is Y as a fact, why? because they said so. "Nana is talking about Deku abandoning his ideals, so he actually can!!" but "Kudo is NOT talking about Deku's full capabilities (for some reason) and just means that Deku cant do it when holding back!!!(supported by nothing at all)"

There literally is but okay

 

[JoeDM021]

took me forever but here

 

[Kazuma_kuwabara]

If we use this arguments to solved world hunger, africa would be happy

 

[JoeDM021]

nahh thats crazy

 

[JoeDM021]

current day Muzan > Yoriichi but yall are not ready

Ngl

your cooking with this and keep cooking

 

[Mommyleona]

Ngl

your cooking with this and keep cooking

Im cooking with Shiggy>Deku too

it literally is through the nana statement

debunked it

direct showings like deku dominating shiggy in a fight

and that too

While this is true this is kinda directly contradicted by the story itself showing deku is still heavily if not going toe to toe with a prime shiggy while being crippled and heavily weakened + that nana statement also directly contradicting this authors note along with several other hints that deku could beat shiggy if he didnt hold back.

Like wth is this? "Bro no way you use Horikoshi as your canon source"

I literally provided an entire argument for why it means he CAN do it but WONT cause of ideals

no, no you didnt, its circular reasoning, "Deku can one shot Shigaraki because Nana said he needs to do it, why? because Nana said he needs to do it, therefore he can" that's all your argument really is

When deku was destroying the hate barrier to reach tenko it didn't affect his physical body much if at all.

False
Shigaraki would also start to crumble away
As deku also says, BOTH of them should've died to begin with

if its from a trustable source and if its direct enough or not in its context

and its neither as i have proven
but more importantly, i dont understand why you keep ignoring it, but her statement isnt something like "I know you can do it, so give up on saving Tenko and kill him in one punch!, but "its YOUR ONLY OPTION if you cant do it we lose", and adding a statement from Kudo, a hecking author statement and multiple other statements it's clear Deku cant just one shot Shiggy

along side the other vestiges

with the other vestige saying he cant do it, why are we putting 1 vestige's words over the other, even though Kudo's are more clear cut

It is direct enough in its context since saying "You have to obliterate him and leave nothing behind!" is as direct as it can be.

It isnt, "You have to" is not "You can"

All I'm seeing from your side is the kudo statement and the regen statement arguments really.

ah yeah, kudo statement, author note, deku's own internal dialogue, shiggy getting stronger than before, episode summary and preview <<<<<<< 1 single line of Nana's encouragement and Deku beating quirkless Shigaraki

it just shows that deku when holding back less can put large holes in shigaraki with ease

Argument from repetition lmao. I already answered this, yet you STILL insist with this, only time he put a hole through him was when Shigaraki was weaker and quirkless
"with ease" - had to punch Shigaraki SIX separate times into the same spot (and shigaraki has no regen here) while using ALL of his arsena

that shigaraki statement that if deku attacked him he wouldnt come out unscathed (which is hella vague but it can mean he could die since he doesn't know the extent of izuku's full might) if you want more statements of it.

which was addressed above, unscathed does not mean he would get one shot, like that's as clear as you can get

Cause deku atp was still wanting to save tenko

Yeah ig that's why he used his strongest moves (Detroit Smash Quintuple) with gearshift and fajin, and it still didnt put a hole into Shigaraki's body

he only used gearshift in that moment and not with the combined force of fajin and 100% of OFA which would very likely be enough to completely obliterate him

he used all that

While yes its from a weaker shiggy that doesnt mean much since we know he simply only got "stronger"

We know that Kudo considered Shigaraki to be "far too powerful" so the boost is significant

He is going rela with a crippled, no danger sense, barely holding himself together with black whip izuku (or ig carnage deku for short) who should be SIGNIFCANTLY weaker then before due to obvious reasons.

You mean Deku is barely managing it with all he has

Thats cause ATP deku literally had nothing but the stat stacking quirk while in its ember state and thats it

Look at what AM could do with just embers lol, deku's stats should still be AM lvl at that point

shiggyafo was in a physically weakened state this mf was still taking on the entirety of class 1-a by himself and he was still holding himself together after the first punch from deku.

DUH???? Thanks for proving how strong Shigaraki actually is even when his body is literally crumbling

Not really doing heavy lifting when its supported through direct showings and another statement from shiggy

No direct showing supports it
And Shiggy's statement doesnt either, dont want to bloat this any more

I never said it would be "easy" I just said that he can simply do it.

"low diff"

but still not enough lol!

so 1 nana statement is enough but not like 4 others smh

2. Nana statement, Shiggy Statement, several direct showings

answered allat already

There literally is but okay

dude stop crying

ALSO all i did was answer a question to begin with, that imo Shigaraki can beat Deku alone, why even ask a question if you (talking about MochOath) want people to reply with only a single answer you consider to be correct (deku one shots everyone lalala)
I dont wanna drag this longer

 

[Nierre]

this is if Naruto held back against Sasuke at the valley all over again

 

[Anonymous_Learner]

Im cooking with Shiggy>Deku too

debunked it

and that too

Like wth is this? "Bro no way you use Horikoshi as your canon source"

no, no you didnt, its circular reasoning, "Deku can one shot Shigaraki because Nana said he needs to do it, why? because Nana said he needs to do it, therefore he can" that's all your argument really is

False
Shigaraki would also start to crumble away
As deku also says, BOTH of them should've died to begin with

and its neither as i have proven
but more importantly, i dont understand why you keep ignoring it, but her statement isnt something like "I know you can do it, so give up on saving Tenko and kill him in one punch!, but "its YOUR ONLY OPTION if you cant do it we lose", and adding a statement from Kudo, a hecking author statement and multiple other statements it's clear Deku cant just one shot Shiggy

with the other vestige saying he cant do it, why are we putting 1 vestige's words over the other, even though Kudo's are more clear cut

It isnt, "You have to" is not "You can"

ah yeah, kudo statement, author note, deku's own internal dialogue, shiggy getting stronger than before, episode summary and preview <<<<<<< 1 single line of Nana's encouragement and Deku beating quirkless Shigaraki

Argument from repetition lmao. I already answered this, yet you STILL insist with this, only time he put a hole through him was when Shigaraki was weaker and quirkless
"with ease" - had to punch Shigaraki SIX separate times into the same spot (and shigaraki has no regen here) while using ALL of his arsena

which was addressed above, unscathed does not mean he would get one shot, like that's as clear as you can get

Yeah ig that's why he used his strongest moves (Detroit Smash Quintuple) with gearshift and fajin, and it still didnt put a hole into Shigaraki's body

he used all that

We know that Kudo considered Shigaraki to be "far too powerful" so the boost is significant

You mean Deku is barely managing it with all he has

Look at what AM could do with just embers lol, deku's stats should still be AM lvl at that point

DUH???? Thanks for proving how strong Shigaraki actually is even when his body is literally crumbling

No direct showing supports it
And Shiggy's statement doesnt either, dont want to bloat this any more

"low diff"

so 1 nana statement is enough but not like 4 others smh

answered allat already

dude stop crying

ALSO all i did was answer a question to begin with, that imo Shigaraki can beat Deku alone, why even ask a question if you (talking about MochOath) want people to reply with only a single answer you consider to be correct (deku one shots everyone lalala)
I dont wanna drag this longer

WHERE was all this Shigaraki glaze when I made Bloodlusted Deku vs shigaraki but Deku stomped so bad it had to be moved to joke battles?

The Greatest Hero Avenges the Avengers (Deku vs. Shigaraki)

The Avengers lost against Shigaraki and many people suggested that Deku runs it back for them. I shall grant that wish Deku Final War 100% Deku will be used Attack Potency: >2.54 Exatons, >12.71 Exatons with Fa Jin Speed: Upscales 62.27% SoL, far higher with Fa Jin, much higher with Gearshift...

vsbattles.com

 

[Mommyleona]

WHERE was all this Shigaraki glaze when I made Bloodlusted Deku vs shigaraki but Deku stomped so bad it had to be moved to joke battles?

The Greatest Hero Avenges the Avengers (Deku vs. Shigaraki)

The Avengers lost against Shigaraki and many people suggested that Deku runs it back for them. I shall grant that wish Deku Final War 100% Deku will be used Attack Potency: >2.54 Exatons, >12.71 Exatons with Fa Jin Speed: Upscales 62.27% SoL, far higher with Fa Jin, much higher with Gearshift...

vsbattles.com

 

[Kazuma_kuwabara]

WHERE was all this Shigaraki glaze when I made Bloodlusted Deku vs shigaraki but Deku stomped so bad it had to be moved to joke battles?

The Greatest Hero Avenges the Avengers (Deku vs. Shigaraki)

The Avengers lost against Shigaraki and many people suggested that Deku runs it back for them. I shall grant that wish Deku Final War 100% Deku will be used Attack Potency: >2.54 Exatons, >12.71 Exatons with Fa Jin Speed: Upscales 62.27% SoL, far higher with Fa Jin, much higher with Gearshift...

vsbattles.com

You mean when Deku was stomping every single haxless high 6-A?


Because he tried to mess with a 7-A girl and got death manipulated so bad that Byleth had to step in

 

[MochOath]

Deku has no supporters here if you guys want to back him up

Izuku Midoriya vs Naruto Uzumaki [0-0-0]

mom said its my turn to do naruto vs deku Izuku Midoriya (Final War Arc) Attack Potency: 18.65 Teratons with Full Cowl, 1.12 Petatons with 100%, 5.60 Petatons with Fa Jin and Gearshift Durability: 18.65 Teratons with Full Cowl, 1.12 Petatons with 100% Lifting Strength: 165,963,555,342,544...

vsbattles.com

 

[Reyne]

I'm not reading that wall of text, but I assume it's been broached how Adapted Shigaraki (Danger Sense, no AFO in his head) was keeping up with Gearshift Deku. I thing is, and I forget is this was a line in the manga, but when Deku goes to use Gearshift on Bakugo against Kudo's advice, he says Second Gear. Not Top Gear or even Third Gear. It makes sense that Deku was using Gearshift on it's slowest acceleration level, but I would think that means he's still faster if he uses Top Gear.

Was that part talked about, because it seems like it would be. Probably wrong or just missed something.

 

[JoeDM021]

Im cooking with Shiggy>Deku too

No you arent

debunked it

Then I debunked you and your debunk and using the same args cuz you haven't debunked back yet

and that too

I pointed out how it isnt relevant since I said "The same prime shigaraki is going rela with a carnage izuku who is literally on his last legs and SIGNIFICANTLY weaker than before"

Like wth is this? "Bro no way you use Horikoshi as your canon source"

I can just use Death to Author fallacy here lol

no, no you didnt, its circular reasoning, "Deku can one shot Shigaraki because Nana said he needs to do it, why? because Nana said he needs to do it, therefore he can" that's all your argument really is

Yes, yes I did and its not circular reasoning I pointed out how he can do it without appealing to "cause he NEEDS to do it" your literally misinterpreting my argument

this is what I said

"Dawg her and every other vestige have been spectating the fight through izuku + knowing shigaraki on a more personal level so they've seen what shiggy is capable of + nana seeing deku in his crippled state yet STILL suggests it for him to do?! She's not stupid or dumb combat wise either she's actually pretty intelligent.. And due to her LITERALLY being a part of OFA she would know if it still had enough power and yet she LITERALLY still suggests to obliterate shigaraki in order to win.. If izuku couldnt do it why suggest it in the first place? She would know if izuku couldnt because shes been viewing the fight the entire time, knows shigaraki better then most there, is a part of OFA so she can see if they have enough to win and suggests that izuku should just obliterate him meaning YES Deku does have the means to kill and obliterate shigaraki while being literally crippled so a fully healthy, bloodlusted, full power izuku wipesAlso Kudou knows less about shiggy then nana and even then at best for you that just evens it out but then it goes back to the "deku obliterates" side when you consider prior when deku stops holding back a bit he starts putting holes in the chest of shiggyAlso Keep in mind even while deku is literally crippled hes still keeping up and even winning extreme diff with an essentially prime shigaraki and we know izuku has gotten significantly weaker then his full power state at the start of the war arc for obvious reasons so even if a prime shiggy fought a prime deku.. prime deku would still wipe since hes only going rela with a crippled, heavily weaked, bleeding izuku"

False
Shigaraki would also start to crumble away
As deku also says, BOTH of them should've died to begin with

The panels you gave is literally right after AFO destroyed most of shigaraki's vestige/soul
and that second part is literally referring to when AFO destroyed most of shiggys vestige/soul in the panels I gave above

and its neither as i have proven
but more importantly, i dont understand why you keep ignoring it, but her statement isnt something like "I know you can do it, so give up on saving Tenko and kill him in one punch!, but "its YOUR ONLY OPTION if you cant do it we lose", and adding a statement from Kudo, a hecking author statement and multiple other statements it's clear Deku cant just one shot Shiggy

It's both as I have debunked your "proven" and I have yet to see a proper counter argument.
Omg we literally already went over this 200 times you are completely forgetting my previous argument for proving why Nana saying that means deku CAN obliterate shigaraki as its a suggestion to overcome his supposed "omnipotent regen" in the eyes of the other vestiges.

with the other vestige saying he cant do it, why are we putting 1 vestige's words over the other, even though Kudo's are more clear cut

I'm willing to believe kudo's is real too but then they just cancel each other out then its up to other statements/showings for either side in which all you have is banjo's statement and the regen statement when the other side has shiggy's statement & several inverse implications and several physical showings.

It isnt, "You have to" is not "You can"

While the wording is a teensy bit vague it can still easily mean deku still has the means to do so and I've said this 100 times that I have provided an argument as to why Nana saying that means he CAN not "you have to!" type stuff as you can still argue shes making a logical assessment on how to kill shigaraki when at that point deku didnt think of completely obliterating him.

ah yeah, kudo statement, author note, deku's own internal dialogue, shiggy getting stronger than before, episode summary and preview <<<<<<< 1 single line of Nana's encouragement and Deku beating quirkless Shigaraki

Nana Statement, Shiggy Statement, Deku Beating up quirkless shigaraki with ease, prime shigaraki only going extreme diff with carnage (aka heavily weakened) izuku >>>>>>>>>> Kudo Statement, Banjo Statement, Contradicted Narrator statement, & Regen Statement. And theres more I will find to further solidify my argument. Also notice how all your arguments are just statements? Not thats a bad thing but at least our arguments also use inverse implications and actual on panel showings.

Argument from repetition lmao. I already answered this, yet you STILL insist with this, only time he put a hole through him was when Shigaraki was weaker and quirkless
"with ease" - had to punch Shigaraki SIX separate times into the same spot (and shigaraki has no regen here) while using ALL of his arsenal

You've done a couple argument from repetition yourself when you have repeated old arguments I've already refuted. I responded to your answer how you said "Thats a weaker shigaraki anyway so it doesn't matter" while I said "It does because a stronger shigaraki is going extreme diff with a heavily weakened, bleeding, no danger sense izuku when izuku is significantly if not arguably massively weaker here due to obvious reasons" and I have yet to see a refute to that. As for the six punches part your literally taking 6 seperate panels from different parts of the fight to say it took six punches when the punching hole panel happened in one punch not six consecutive I think the story wouldve made it obvious if it took 6 punches. Also where did it say that shigaraki has no regen? I'm pretty sure he's been regening the whole fight and Aizawa and the copy kid never spoke about stopping his regeneration quirk only his decay quirk so thats head canon.

which was addressed above, unscathed does not mean he would get one shot, like that's as clear as you can get

The statement is vague enough and no I countered that addression by saying it can be up to interpretation as "unscathed" is vague since dying immediately can also mean "wouldn't come out unscathed" as well.

Yeah ig that's why he used his strongest moves (Detroit Smash Quintuple) with gearshift and fajin, and it still didnt put a hole into Shigaraki's body

Dawg fajin was NOT used it was literally only Gearshift and OFA deku in that scene and I'm pretty sure when deku put a hole in shiggys chest it was with a regular smash and deku never used all his quirks at full power with intent to murder shigaraki ONCE and it was only ever two combinations at best since I don't remember seeing a Gearshift, 100% OFA, Fajin charged deku going full power plus ultra on Shigaraki once.

he used all that

First panel is a seperate shot when they had during the fight. Second panel can be easily taken out of context if you crop out the rest of it so can you show the full panel so I can see the full context? I'll respond better then.

We know that Kudo considered Shigaraki to be "far too powerful" so the boost is significant

And yet said boost can't make him destroy a carnage deku and only go extreme diff who is significantly weaker then his prime self.

You mean Deku is barely managing it with all he has

You mean deku who is barely breathing due to gshift downside, his body is falling apart, lost danger sense, is bleeding quite a bit, and is essentially on fumes?

Look at what AM could do with just embers lol, deku's stats should still be AM lvl at that point

AM Could essentially always use 100% + I'm pretty sure he had a plus ultra amp for that punch while izuku didn't iirc. Also that final punch should at least be above WAM level I can say that since it obliterated a shiggyafo who should probably be that level.

DUH???? Thanks for proving how strong Shigaraki actually is even when his body is literally crumbling

For a heavily weakened shiggyafo vs a deku punch who can only use 45% of OFA with literal embers left. Idk how this helps your argument though.

No direct showing supports it
And Shiggy's statement doesnt either, dont want to bloat this any more

Quite literally does as well as inverse implications if you thought about it for more then 5 minutes if anything your bloating your side of the arguments statements like they immediately overrride any statement before.

"low diff"

We are talking about a carnage deku lmao. I said FP, Bloodlusted, Healthy Izuku could low diff shigaraki since hes significantly stronger then carnage deku by quite a decent margin if not a wide margin.

so 1 nana statement is enough but not like 4 others smh

Your hard focusing on the nana statement and quite literally almost ignoring the other arguments here its 1 nana statement, 1 shiggy statement, several inverse implications, and several direct showings vs your 4 statements.

answered allat already

I refuted your "answered allat" too

dude stop crying

I like to use emoji's okay?

ALSO all i did was answer a question to begin with, that imo Shigaraki can beat Deku alone, why even ask a question if you (talking about MochOath) want people to reply with only a single answer you consider to be correct (deku one shots everyone lalala)
I dont wanna drag this longer

I was just giving my pov on things and I didn't even respond to you initially I just said a fp, bloodlusted, healthy izuku could wipe the verse low-mid diff at best and you responded to ME not the other way around so dont pull that "Oh you started this" BS. For this I don't care if you think shiggy beats deku since I can see the arguments for them and they aren't the worst I've seen I'm just saying those arguments are wrong either way and I've even conceeded on some of your points on where people try to debunk some things going against shiggy like the shiggy statement not actually translating too "he would die" and that it actually translates to him only not knowing if he could come out unscathed to me it just sounds like your trying to dunk on my reliability by saying im biased.

As for the last part.. Do you just wanna agree to disagree cause I don't feel like continuing either and this is a waste of both of our times

 

[Mommyleona]

I'm not reading that wall of text, but I assume it's been broached how Adapted Shigaraki (Danger Sense, no AFO in his head) was keeping up with Gearshift Deku. I thing is, and I forget is this was a line in the manga, but when Deku goes to use Gearshift on Bakugo against Kudo's advice, he says Second Gear. Not Top Gear or even Third Gear. It makes sense that Deku was using Gearshift on it's slowest acceleration level, but I would think that means he's still faster if he uses Top Gear.

Nah, it would make the wall like 2 times longer

 

[JoeDM021]

Took a bit but theres my next response

Make sure to read last part too

 

[JoeDM021]

I'm not reading that wall of text, but I assume it's been broached how Adapted Shigaraki (Danger Sense, no AFO in his head) was keeping up with Gearshift Deku. I thing is, and I forget is this was a line in the manga, but when Deku goes to use Gearshift on Bakugo against Kudo's advice, he says Second Gear. Not Top Gear or even Third Gear. It makes sense that Deku was using Gearshift on it's slowest acceleration level, but I would think that means he's still faster if he uses Top Gear.

Was that part talked about, because it seems like it would be. Probably wrong or just missed something.

It wasn't brought up yet and I don't feel like making this squabble go on any longer so I probably wont address it unless someone decides to

 

[Mommyleona]

You mean the Shigaraki Deku literally had to sacrifice his quirk for to just barely defeat? And Deku never held back. He literally had no way of defeating Shigaraki outside of soul hax.

"Deku never held back" Acting like this mf didnt want to save tenko bro if he wasnt holding back he wouldve killed shigaraki before he could save tenko and we know this because for moments where deku holds back less he LITERALLY starts putting holes in shigaraki EFFORTLESSLY

And YK whats funny? Literally the moment shigaraki/tenko dies and AFO takes over

HE IMMEDIATELY GOES FOR THE KILL AND OBLITERATES BRO

you responded to ME not the other way around so dont pull that "Oh you started this" BS

Why are we lying?
I did not respond to you first