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Jujutsu Kaisen Discussion Page #1

ElJoaki5 said:
Remember how it's stated that Gojo's birth caused curses to increase in power.
Basically, Gojo being so strong causes curses to become stronger as to balance out (This includes the disaster curses). With that context one could consider Gojo to scale above everything the curses do, including Maximum Meteor.
Click to expand...
How does affect Toji's legacy?
 
ElJoaki5 said:
Remember how it's stated that Gojo's birth caused curses to increase in power.
Basically, Gojo being so strong causes curses to become stronger as to balance out (This includes the disaster curses). With that context one could consider Gojo to scale above everything the curses do, including Maximum Meteor.
Click to expand...
So what we're saying is

Newborn Gojo is H7C+ - L7B
 
Putting ts here

vsbattles.com

Satoru Gojo vs Klein Moretti [12-12-0]

(Hoping this isn’t a stomp) The Honored One Votes: @Arkenis @Buraqibear @Pluto321 @Cipher72 @Naito-desu @Catbowtie @Robo432343 @Bimbitesthedust @Keshirou @LIFE_OF_KING @Voidnether @Sakamaki_Fuji VERSUS The Fool (as Gehrman Sparrow) Votes: @PhoenixWrong57 @Foriaa @Notlaziz @Exoko...
vsbattles.com vsbattles.com
 
Rodriiogo said:
A normal dismantle from 15F Sukuna is City-Mountain level according to Joaki's calcs so Ryu, Yuta and Yuji would scale to that level. That's my point.
Click to expand...
Yeah I disagree. It's so obvious these aren't normal dismantles in the anime.

Rodriiogo said:
What? So you think Sukuna went "hm... yes I actually can just cut through them with a single dismantle but let me lie to my own head and say I need physical contact because I'm holding back". The jujutsu high point isn't to say "every jujutsu high sorcerer is 15F Dismantle level". I used it to prove that Sukuna is indeed talking about yuji and yuta's durability being above his dismantles just like ryu was. Not only because his cursed energy diminished as he said but because they (just like every other jujutsu high sorcerer) got tougher than they were in one month. Yuji went from being below 15F Dismantles and needing Sukuna to be at 10% of his output to survive them to being able to withstand them head on without any fatal damages so Sukuna points out how it isn't just Yuji but everyone somehow got tougher.
Click to expand...
Not that he's lying about his overall power, just that in that moment at his current power he's saying it. We're told Sukuna's holding back and when he regains his output we see how different he fights and how much more damage he does.

Rodriiogo said:
Because, despite them also getting tougher, they aren't at heavy hitters level. Sukuna was still confident that dismantles were enough until he tests yuta and yuji's durability which he then gets shocked by how durable they have become in one month. You can't just mix stuff together.
Click to expand...
When was he confident that was all that he needed? It's either Sukuna's holding back throughout the entire fight or Higuruma is now 15f level since he tanks several dismantles. You're the one mixing stuff together, you think every dismantle is stagnant when its clear he can amp them. Reread the fight, cuz why else would Sukuna decide to use an amped dismantle on Higuruma here or why now he's suddenly able to cut Higuruma's hand off when before he couldn't cut anything off.
 
ElJoaki5 said:
Remember how it's stated that Gojo's birth caused curses to increase in power.
Basically, Gojo being so strong causes curses to become stronger as to balance out (This includes the disaster curses). With that context one could consider Gojo to scale above everything the curses do, including Maximum Meteor.
Click to expand...
Baby gojo's City block 👀
 
ElJoaki5 said:
Chat check this out please
Click to expand...
Well...I guess this could mean that he has more CE than Maximum Meteor due to having a bigger aura. Now whether this affects stats is another thing entirely. Also, wouldn't using this introduce a whole new aspect to JJK scaling via seeing who and what has bigger CE auras? Sounds like a very messy way to scale.
 
ElJoaki5 said:
But you havent said anything bout aura scaling 😔
Click to expand...
I disagreed, basically Jogo's meteor's ap partially comes from it crushing down from a significant height, and from the anime it also uses physical matter in it's creation, i really doubt that Sukuna aura being "bigger" would mean he's like directly above it just from that, also we dont really see the full shot of Jogo's meteor aura anyway.
AND on top of that simply more aura =/= automatically stronger, we already know Sukuna has the highest ce quantity (which is what this ce aura mostly is as we see with Yuta), i doubt it means that Sukuna is using higher ce output than Jogo's meteor, just to randomly flex with his presence
We see Gojo's aura when charging up HP and it's nowhere as big
2-F3rDSOZJt21b7-1402x2048.jpg
 
Arkenis said:
Yeah I disagree. It's so obvious these aren't normal dismantles in the anime.
Click to expand...
Huh? What are they then? It's not like dismantle's max AP/Output is ever said to vary...? Did bro do an unknown binding vow in the anime to boost his dismantles for 0.5 seconds while fighting Mahoraga just so he could split the clouds for the aura?

Arkenis said:
Not that he's lying about his overall power, just that in that moment at his current power he's saying it. We're told Sukuna's holding back and when he regains his output we see how different he fights and how much more damage he does.
Click to expand...
Again, for the "output" thing he straight up says: "It's not just because of my diminished cursed energy output from the fight with Satoru gojo either... All of the sorcerers that have shown up from Jujutsu High have extremely tight defenses." And I dare you to find a single image where dismantles do fatal damage to either yuji or yuta after he "regains output". He does deal alot of damage indeed, with cleaves and physical attacks. Never dismantles because dismantles were too weak.
And him "holding back" is a useless point considering Sukuna is thinking this to himself. Did he FORGET that he was holding back or something and that he could actually slice through them if he just locked in for 0.001 seconds? That's a stretch atp.

Regardless of those points he directly compares them to Ryu and that they are comparable to him in durability. Which is very much consistent considering Yuta even back in the culling games while fighting Ryu and deflecting his attacks with his bare hands. The same Ryu that is too tough for 15F Sukuna's dismantles to do any fatal damage. So they very much scale to 15F Sukuna's dismantles regardless via Ryu. The statement here just makes it more obvious.

Arkenis said:
When was he confident that was all that he needed? It's either Sukuna's holding back throughout the entire fight or Higuruma is now 15f level since he tanks several dismantles. You're the one mixing stuff together, you think every dismantle is stagnant when its clear he can amp them. Reread the fight, cuz why else would Sukuna decide to use an amped dismantle on Higuruma here or why now he's suddenly able to cut Higuruma's hand off when before he couldn't cut anything off.
Click to expand...
I don't know maybe the fact that he was trying to use dismantles against them before realising it was useless, the whole way he realises dismantles don't work is because he used a net of them and they just tanked it? As for the higuruma one, he can only "amp" this dismantle because he quite literally made the chant for increasing power beforehand. He can't just willingly release a dismantle at that level whenever he wants and he very much didn't do this in the anime feat. As for the dismantles "not cutting higuruma" Kukusabe stepped in and weakened his dismantles with simple domain. Sukuna himself says this and Kukusabe even says he thought they would kill him if not for that.
 
Rodriiogo said:
Huh? What are they then? It's not like dismantle's AP is ever said to vary...? Did bro do an unknown binding vow in the anime to boost his dismantles for 0.5 seconds while fighting Mahoraga just so he could split the clouds for the aura?
Click to expand...
Visual damage is all we need to say he's amping them with more ce, thats how ct work.

Rodriiogo said:
Again, for the "regaining his output" thing he straight up says that even if he hadn't lost output from the
He directly compares them to Ryu and that they are comparable to him in durability. Which is very much consistent considering Yuta even back in the culling games while fighting Ryu and deflecting his attacks with his bare hands. The same Ryu that is too tough for 15F Sukuna's dismantles to do any fatal damage. So they very much scale to 15F Sukuna's dismantles regardless via Ryu. The statement here just makes it more obvious.
Click to expand...
Comparable to Ryu does not mean comparable to 16f but alr, I can see there's not much else that'll convince you otherwise.

Rodriiogo said:
I don't know maybe the fact that he was trying to use dismantles against them before realising it was useless? As for the higuruma one, he can only "amp" this dismantle because he quite literally made the chant for increasing power beforehand. He can't just willingly release a dismantle at that level whenever he wants and he very much didn't do this in the anime feat. As for the dismantles "not cutting higuruma" Kukusabe stepped in and weakened his dismantles with simple domain. Sukuna himself says this and Kukusabe even says he thought they would kill him if not for that.
Click to expand...
But it wasn't? Why would he used an amped dismantle if the regular ones work? If they don't work then you agree Higuruma is 15lvl. I don't know how else to convey that step by step. No one said he did that one in the anime. Kusakabe only stopped dismantle for himself, Higuruma didn't use SD and Kusakabe didn't extend his to Higuruma.


Best and simplest way to this explain shit: If you think the same cloud cutting dismantle is equal to this dismantle then we can just stop going back and forth cuz there's no way ima convince you Sukuna amps dismantle to different outputs if the visuals don't demonstrate that.
 
Funnily enough I gotta agree with Arkenis on this case 😭😭😭
Dismantle do vary in output there is no point Rika getting pushed back from dismantle with heavily weakened Sukuna (inside Yuta's domain where Sukuna fired WCS) while previously Yuta tanked the cleave from stronger version of Sukuna.
 
Arkenis said:
Visual damage is all we need to say he's amping them with more ce, thats how ct work.
Click to expand...
Except it creating more visual damage doesn't mean more AP if it's the same attack with the same CE what?

Arkenis said:
Comparable to Ryu does not mean comparable to 16f but alr, I can see there's not much else that'll convince you otherwise.
Click to expand...
I am not tryna say Ryu is 16F Level. Since it's made clear that Sukuna physically >> his dismantles. Ryu tanks 16F Dismantles, I don't see how you can go around this at all man

Arkenis said:
But it wasn't? Why would he used an amped dismantle if the regular ones work? If they don't work then you agree Higuruma is 15lvl. I don't know how else to convey that step by step. No one said he did that one in the anime. Kusakabe only stopped dismantle for himself, Higuruma didn't use SD and Kusakabe didn't extend his to Higuruma.
Click to expand...
Stopping it for himself would also stop it for Higurama because the dismantles were targetted when both of them were one behind the other.

And for full confirmation that dismantles would kill them and that the dismantles were weakend for both, not just Kusakabe:
"It's instant death if we get caught by "cleave", a point blank "dismantle" or the "slash that bisects the world". No amount of cursed energy reinforcement, domain amplification, or simple domains are going to stop those."
- Kusakabe admits this. Regular dismantles at point blank would indeed instant kill both him and Higuruma as simple domain would not weaken them enough at that point. This also confirms the dismantles at Higuruma were also weakened unless you think Higuruma > Kusakabe physically.

This isn't the same for Yuta and Yuji who's durability is way higher to the point Sukuna NEEDS cleave (physical contact) or world slash to actually do fatal damage. They aren't at all the same.

Side note: We quite literally scale Kukusabe in simple domain to 15F Sukuna's slashes in his page alongside one of the reasons on ryu's durability in his page is him being unable to take fatal damage from 16F Sukuna dismantles... so like?

Arkenis said:
Best and simplest way to this explain shit: If you think the same cloud cutting dismantle is equal to this dismantle then we can just stop going back and forth cuz there's no way ima convince you Sukuna amps dismantle to different outputs if the visuals don't demonstrate that.
Click to expand...
The link is not working but I assume ur talking about the amped one with chant, if so, no lmao, sukuna didnt randomly chant a domain to the skies
 
EldemadeDityjon said:
Funnily enough I gotta agree with Arkenis on this case 😭😭😭
Dismantle do vary in output there is no point Rika getting pushed back from dismantle with heavily weakened Sukuna (inside Yuta's domain where Sukuna fired WCS) while previously Yuta tanked the cleave from stronger version of Sukuna.
Click to expand...
Yuta and Yuji also gets pushed back from dismantles right in the scene where Sukuna says dismantles don't do fatal damage to them. Rika being pushed back means nothing as the yuta that is too durable for any fatal damage from any dismantle also did. The point isn't "Dismantle can't do damage to them" It obviously does, even to Ryu. But they downscale from it as they are comparable to it's AP via Sukuna being completely unable to fully cut through them / do any fatal damage. Also "yuta tanked the cleave from stronger version of Sukuna" is untrue. Yuta himself said his slashes were even weaker than before in the scene so he could close the distance without fear (cause cleave itself is weakened).
 
Rodriiogo said:
Yuta and Yuji also gets pushed back from dismantles right in the scene where Sukuna says dismantles don't do fatal damage to them. Rika being pushed back means nothing as the yuta that is too durable for any fatal damage from any dismantle also did. The point isn't "Dismantle can't do damage to them" It obviously does, even to Ryu. But they downscale from it as they are comparable to it's AP via Sukuna being completely unable to fully cut through them / do any fatal damage. Also "yuta tanked the cleave from stronger version of Sukuna" is untrue. Yuta himself said his slashes were even weaker than before in the scene so he could close the distance without fear (cause cleave itself is weakened).
Click to expand...
I guess you didn't understand anything I said.
Yuta took that cleave from 4 hands intact Sukuna
While Rika got pushed back by 2 hands intact Sukuna. There is a difference.
Yuji didn't got hit by normal dismantle either way. Dismantle do vary in output. Even against Shibuya Mahoraga Sukuna fired a charged up Dismantle in manga.
 
Also regardless of which dismantle you wanna use, I will re-iterate that Sukuna's words arent "oh normal dismantles dont work on this two" he says that he needs physical contact to do fatal damage to them just like it was with Ryu. You can make 50 variations of dismantle's output, Sukuna is admittimg that it wouldnt work and that he needs physical contact not that "regular dismantle" doesnt work
 
EldemadeDityjon said:
I guess you didn't understand anything I said.
Yuta took that cleave from 4 hands intact Sukuna
While Rika got pushed back by 2 hands intact Sukuna. There is a difference.
Click to expand...
Except the other difference here is that Sukuna's cleave was weakened because of him using hollow wicker basket. Yuta clarifies this even further by saying that now he can get close without fear. If Sukuna was weaker before then the opportunity wouldnt only be now. Sukuna's cleave and overall slashes was at its weakest till then when Yuta tanked it

EldemadeDityjon said:
Yuji didn't got hit by normal dismantle either way. Dismantle do vary in output. Even against Shibuya Mahoraga Sukuna fired a charged up Dismantle in manga.
Click to expand...
Yuji got hit by a bunch of dismantles actually lol and again even if they did vary in output, they still have a max which is below cleave's. In the same Mahoraga fight he thinks cleaves would one tap Mahoraga even after point blank dismantles failed to do so. Its made very clear that in terms of max output, Cleave > Dismantle

And again, Sukuna's statement isnt "regular dismantles wont work". Its "I need physical contact (cleave) to do fatal damage to them". So no matter how much output this Sukuna puts in his dismantles, it wouldnt do fatal damage to yuta and yuji, the same way that any of 16F sukuna's dismantles wouldnt do fatal damage to ryu.
I'm obviously not including chant or any amps here lol
 
Arkenis said:
eQp9Eqt.png

This dismantle.
Click to expand...
Oh sure and im arguing ryu's durability would allow him to survive that dismantle without fatal damage according to Sukuna himself. It would hurt him (obviously) but he downscales from it so he should scale.

Sukuna was at the strongest he ever was in the story against ryu. As he was at 16F and had just finished the bath that made him return to 100% CE Output. Yet Sukuna says that he would not be able to do fatal damage to ryu at that time without physical contact. This would include his max output on dismantle unless you think he forgot he had that or for some reason is lying to himself in his own mind..?
 
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