One-Punch Man: Monsterization

[Kachon123]

In chapter 211 of One-Punch Man, Amai Mask mentioned that when he became a monster, his body was strengthened manyfold, among other perks:

不自然に何倍も強化された肉体と
A body unnaturally strengthened manyfold,

"何倍も" = manyfold

For reference, “several” typically means “more than two but not many.” “Manyfold” would then also imply a minimum of 3x, possibly higher depending on context.

Because monsterization has varying levels of success, this 3x figure can't be applied to all cases. However there are certain characters and instances where it can.

Limiter Growth
As Psykos explained, the secret to becoming a monster (outside of using monster cells) is by overloading the body and spirit with challenges tailored to an individual’s level. The issue is that once monsterization is achieved, further growth beyond the initial amp becomes impossible. It was then revealed that there is a way to bypass this limit and that it grants an exponentially higher boost than what 'natural' monsterization can.

Amai Mask is an example of someone who became a monster but did not break his limiter, yet still received a manyfold (at least 3x) increase in strength through the monsterization process alone. Since limiter-breaking (and the walls between) result in even greater gains than monsterization itself, any character who achieves that would, by default, scale above Amai Mask’s amp, making his 3x boost a logical minimum benchmark for post-limiter-breaking cases.

• “Manyfold” = at least 3x amp.
  • This figure is case-dependent and not universal.
• Monsterization grants an amp and has a hard ceiling, but limiter-breaking gives strength amps far greater than that.
  • Since Amai Mask didn’t break his limiter and still got a 3x boost, limiter-breaking monsters' growth scale above that by default.

Scaling:

Kachon123/Stuff

vsbattles.fandom.com

 

[MrTayman616]

In chapter 211 of One-Punch Man, Amai Mask mentioned that when he became a monster, his body was strengthened manyfold, among other perks:


"何倍も" = manyfold

For reference, “several” typically means “more than two but not many.” “Manyfold” would then imply a minimum of 4x, possibly higher depending on context.

Because monsterization has varying levels of success, this 4x figure can't be applied to all cases. However there are certain characters and instances where it can.

Limiter Growth
As Psykos explained, the secret to becoming a monster (outside of using monster cells) is by overloading the body and spirit with challenges tailored to an individual’s level. The issue is that once monsterization is achieved, further growth beyond the initial amp becomes impossible. It was then revealed that there is a way to bypass this limit and that it grants an exponentially higher boost than what 'natural' monsterization can.

Amai Mask is an example of someone who became a monster but did not break his limiter, yet still received a manyfold (at least 4x) increase in strength through the monsterization process alone. Since limiter-breaking (and the walls between) result in even greater gains than monsterization itself, any character who achieves that would, by default, scale above Amai Mask’s amp, making his 4x boost a logical minimum benchmark for post-limiter-breaking cases.

• “Manyfold” = at least 4x amp.
  • This figure is case-dependent and not universal.
• Monsterization grants an amp and has a hard ceiling, but limiter-breaking gives strength amps far greater than that.
  • Since Amai Mask didn’t break his limiter and still got a 4x boost, limiter-breaking monsters' growth scale above that by default.

Scaling:

Kachon123/Stuff

vsbattles.fandom.com

I agree. I still think at least 5x makes more sense based on Phoenix Man since Phoenix Man who couldn't even dent one layer of Child Emperor's Transparent Film was able to easily destroy five layer of it after overcoming death while using the same exact attack he used before.

 

[Kachon123]

That can only be used as support for the increase in the OP, not as basis for a new multiplier entirely as there's no stated number.

 

[Epiccheev]

I think 4x or at least 3x makes sense for a lowball based on how much it should increase, Even the monsterization wich is achieved by fodder/weak characters who have never even tried to break their limiter/have little potential is still consistently portrayed as game changing boost to their capacities.

Granted some cases like Bakuzan could be described as winning the lottery, but that would still be a somewhat rare case.

 

[Kachon123]

I think 4x or at least 3x makes sense for a lowball based on how much it should increase, Even the monsterization wich is achieved by fodder/weak characters who have never even tried to break their limiter/have little potential is still consistently portrayed as game changing boost to their capacities.

Granted some cases like Bakuzan could be described as winning the lottery, but that would still be a somewhat rare case.

Yup. I'd also like to reiterate that this amp is for people who have broken their limiter and the walls prior.

 

[Peter1129]

Many in Japanese is pretty much the same as several in that the bare minimum when you use those terms are just 3x. So if there aren’t any evidence of a higher boost the bare minimum should be 3x rather than 4x.

 

[Kachon123]

Many in Japanese is pretty much the same as several in that the bare minimum when you use those terms are just 3x. So if there aren’t any evidence of a higher boost the bare minimum should be 3x rather than 4x.

Manyfold means "more than several".

 

[MrTayman616]

Scaling:

Kachon123/Stuff

vsbattles.fandom.com

Btw, the first time Garou broke his limits is when he was fighting against Bang and Bomb.

So the upgrade starts from there. (It was also stated in interview 3 or 4 iirc)

 

[Damage3245]

I don't agree that this means there is a 4x increase every time a monster (i.e. Garou) is getting an increase in power. In this case:

Post-Sage Centipede Garou (Second Form): Garou's growth was noticed by Saitama, which is something his previous forms were incapable of making him do before: 157.48096 Petatons, likely 1.17009088 Zettatons

Post-Sage Centipede Garou (Third Form): Garou claimed that his Third Form increased several aspects of his fighting style in order to fight Saitama, including "power": 629.92384 Petatons, likely 4.68036352 Zettatons

Garou getting an increase in power in his Third Form doesn't mean that another precisely 4x multiplier was stacked on top of his strength.

 

[Kachon123]

I don't agree that this means there is a 4x increase every time a monster (i.e. Garou) is getting an increase in power.

No, I think you misunderstand. That's not what's being proposed. This is about the limiter break and walls in-between.

Garou getting an increase in power in his Third Form doesn't mean that another precisely 4x multiplier was stacked on top of his strength.

Perhaps, but Garou claimed that his growth rate was increasing, meaning the difference from Second Form to Third Form would be greater than First Form to Second Form and those before that.

 

[Damage3245]

No, I think you misunderstand. That's not what's being proposed. This is about the limiter break and walls in-between.

Perhaps, but Garou claimed that his growth rate was increasing, meaning the difference from Second Form to Third Form would be greater than First Form to Second Form and those before that.

I see where you're coming from, but I want us to be cautious about stacking too many multipliers in jumps of power that aren't directly stated.

For example, I don't think there's enough basis that Garou after fighting Orochi ended up with a 4x multiplier compared to when he was fighting Rover. Yeah, Garou gets stronger and faster as he fights, but we don't know that from that one fight that he truly "broke another wall" and went through a Sweet Mask-equivalent power jump.

 

[Kachon123]

Yeah, Garou gets stronger and faster as he fights, but we don't know that from that one fight that he truly "broke another wall"

That was the purpose of that particular fight as stated by Gyoro Gyoro so I think it's justified in this case.

 

[MrTayman616]

I see where you're coming from, but I want us to be cautious about stacking too many multipliers in jumps of power that aren't directly stated.

For example, I don't think there's enough basis that Garou after fighting Orochi ended up with a 4x multiplier compared to when he was fighting Rover. Yeah, Garou gets stronger and faster as he fights, but we don't know that from that one fight that he truly "broke another wall" and went through a Sweet Mask-equivalent power jump.

At the end of the fight, he gets another limit breaking aura.

Murata also states he evolved there.

 

[Damage3245]

That was the purpose of that particular fight as stated by Gyoro Gyoro so I think it's justified in this case.

Gyoro-Gyoro wanted Garou to be subdued by Orochi; she doesn't say anything in Chapter 94 about that fight's purpose to be to increase Garou's power.

 

[Peter1129]

Manyfold means "more than several".

In Japanese many is pretty much just several. I made a thread regarding this a while back along with many comparisons with different series treating manyfold/many times boost as just 3x minimum.

 

[Kachon123]

In Japanese many is pretty much just several. I made a thread regarding this a while back along with many comparisons with different series treating manyfold/many times boost as just 3x minimum.

Could you link where this was accepted

 

[Peter1129]

It wasn’t really accepted. Just that I made a thread and was asking about it based on some evidence from dictionaries and from other series I follow treating it that way. So far I don’t think there’s exactly a standard for several and many times boost in Japanese. But here’s the thread

Regarding Several and Many

Several vs Many So I've been wondering about 数倍 (Several times) vs 何倍 (Many times) for a while now because in one series I was working on it is shown that there are many forms that are stated to be a several times boost but are also stated to be many times boost at the same time or have a...

vsbattles.com

 

[Lynieryz]

"何倍も" = manyfold

何倍も #sentences - Jisho.org

jisho.org

As Peter mentioned, you can simply check the examples on the website you linked and you'll see that many (several, manifold, etc) are synonyms in Japanese.

 

[Kachon123]

Fair enough. In that case, I'll change it to 3x instead of 4x.

 

[Lynieryz]

[Agree FRA]

 

[Epiccheev]

limit breaking aura.

Spoiler

 

[MrTayman616]

There was a Class-A level criminal who could hit 5x the power of a bull, stated in the databook iirc.

Maybe it can be used for at least 5x? Since Garou has reached a higher level than that guy, meaning getting that much stronger is possible for someone like him.

 

[Damage3245]

There was a Class-A level criminal who could hit 5x the power of a bull, stated in the databook iirc.

Maybe it can be used for at least 5x? Since Garou has reached a higher level than that guy, meaning getting that much stronger is possible for someone like him.

I don't think that follows. There is no connection between Garou and that guy being stronger than a bull.

 

[MrTayman616]

I don't think that follows. There is no connection between Garou and that guy being stronger than a bull.

He's Class-A level criminal. Garou is considered a replacement for Bang, considered Dragon level by HQ based on being S-Class level. Defeats Demon level enemies, whose levels are tested by Gyoro Gyoro.

The comparison by rankings should be fine here imo.

 

[Kachon123]

Bump. I updated the sandbox and OP.

@Damage3245 from what I've seen you're not opposed to this in some cases but it's just some of the evolutions in the sandbox that you're iffy on. Am I correct on that?

Also, could you @ Qaws, DDM, and FinePoint?

 

[XSOULOFCINDERX]

So what monsters aside from Garou would this apply to? Would this apply to monsters who just have transformations or is this a one and done power up for becoming the monster by itself?

 

[Kachon123]

So what monsters aside from Garou would this apply to? Would this apply to monsters who just have transformations or is this a one and done power up for becoming the monster by itself?

No one other than Garou (and I guess Saitama but he already finished his limiter break) since nobody else has gone through the trials Gyoro Gyoro explained.

 

[XSOULOFCINDERX]

No one other than Garou (and I guess Saitama but he already finished his limiter break) since nobody else has gone through the trials Gyoro Gyoro explained.

Not even the Amai Mask level buff?

 

[Damage3245]

@Qawsedf234 @DarkDragonMedeus @FinePoint

 

[Kachon123]

Not even the Amai Mask level buff?

I guess it could be argued for some exceptional monster transformations like Choze or Bakuzan but that's not the intent with this as it's not very solid at all.

 

[DavidTPPM]

So what's exactly is being proposed here?
That each time Garou free stronger it was a 3x jump?

(I just woke up so I'm a little stupid atm )

 

[Kachon123]

That each time Garou free stronger it was a 3x jump?

After each limiter wall break as described by Gyoro Gyoro pretty much. You can check the sandbox, but for the full monsterization forms (after he started fighting Saitama), even though he's not breaking walls like he was before, his rate of growth between those forms are said to be greater than they have ever been so logically it would apply there as well.

 

[DavidTPPM]

If I'm understanding this right the logic seems understandable enough off wiki but I'm not really sure if this isn't too vague for our strict multiplier standards.

From what I'm seeing there isn't a direct enough correlation between Amai becoming a monster and all of Garous jumps.

Unless I'm missing something

 

[Kachon123]

From what I'm seeing there isn't a direct enough correlation between Amai becoming a monster and all of Garous jumps.

The correlation is explained in the OP. Psykos, who has researched countless ways to make beings stronger, came to the conclusion that limiter breaking grants far greater boosts than any monsterization can. It's the main reason why she wanted Garou to be a cadre despite him not actually having been strong enough at the time.

Also, this isn't for all of Garou's jumps. He always gets stronger in battle, like when he fought off several A-Class Heroes and got a big random boost, but it's not being applied there because there's no indication that a wall was broken.

 

[EnderLord8]

So, does this only apply when the limiter breaks, or is it monsterization in general? I'm confused.

 

[MrTayman616]

In this case:

The first one should be fine, Saitama himself compares it to the ones he had before, saying he got a little better again. This is a moment where his body mutated responding to his emotions like before which was a massive power up compared to the ones he had before.

While last one might not be good as it happens within an unknown timeframe and has no direct comparison. Though, his body mutated again responding to his emotions like here which was a massive upgrade compared to the ones he had before, so it should be fine.

He's Class-A level criminal. Garou is considered a replacement for Bang, considered Dragon level by HQ based on being S-Class level. Defeats Demon level enemies, whose levels are tested by Gyoro Gyoro.

The comparison by rankings should be fine here imo.

Also, characters like Sonic, Hellfire and Gale Wind (Canonically S-Class criminals), believes the power up from monster cells are such that it can't be achieved through training, drugs or modification.
This would apply to that Class-A criminal that can hit with the 5x power of a bull(it's within his limits).

Other supporting cases as well like

Phoenix Man who couldn't even dent one layer of Child Emperor's Transparent Film was able to easily destroy five layer of it after overcoming death while using the same exact attack he used before.

Which Child Emperor specifically comments on five layer to clarify how durable it is rather than it being put randomly.

 

[Damage3245]

Also, characters like Sonic, Hellfire and Gale Wind (Canonically S-Class criminals), believes the power up from monster cells are such that it can't be achieved through training, drugs or modification.
This would apply to that Class-A criminal that can hit with the 5x power of a bull(it's within his limits).

This seems irrelevant. Just because one random criminal can train himself to be 5x more powerful than a bull, doesn't mean that every character can train themselves to be 5x stronger than they already are.

 

[Kachon123]

So, does this only apply when the limiter breaks, or is it monsterization in general? I'm confused.

Limiter.

 

[EnderLord8]

Well, huh, from what I understood from the thread, I believe Boros is also applicable, more specifically its Meteoric Burst state, since it has that statement "To bring out power beyond the limit of living beings." I don't know if that's the original Japanese phrase, but here it implies an increase related to the limiter.

Furthermore, does this only apply to AP? Or does it also apply to speed?

 

[Kachon123]

Only AP. You can make another CRT for Boros if you'd like, but I strongly disagree.