Speed-o'-Sound Sonic vs Sarada Uchiha

[MrTayman616]

Depends on what you mean

The MS is solely a manga exclusive one because TBV haven't been animated yet

I think the 3T has been animated though

Oh i've misread.

3T hasn't been animated as far as i'm aware. Also MS isn't included to this key i think.

 

[DavidTPPM]

Sharingan is what defines an Uchiha, but not that it's what makes them a shinobi. (even more so in Boruto's era).

Honestly this is just extremely disingenuous. First of all, like I said before, this is accepted on Saradas profile so arguing against it is meaningless.
Second of all, that's nonsense. Sharingan is a part of their shinobi skills and THE shinobi skill of the Uchihas. Their entire kit is built around utilizing the sharingan. Saying she's more skilled than him as a shinobi doesn't include the sharingan is like saying a swordsman stating another swordsman is a more skilled as a fighter doesn't mean he's more skilled with the sword.

And lastly, I can meet you with that logic. That means Flashy being more skilled than Ian, AS, or anyone else is meaningless. Because "that can be interpreted in countless ways" and doesn't mean he can necessarily keep up with danmaku as skillfully as Ian. Even more so Sonic who's just vaguely comparable to Flashy and other ninjas so ig Sonic is actually a bum.

Sasuke not using Genjutsu with his sharingan can be used for Sarada being better at genjutsu at most.

You mean Sarada using her SHARINGAN genjutsu has nothing to do with their SHARINGAN skill? Yeah totally

I didn't mean one amp but that i'd argue Sonic's amps are superior overall and that she can't keep up physically

And why would that be? I listed a direct scale of amps at least twice now and all I've gotten in response is "well I think Sonic can instantly beat her" .

Chidori doesn't amp the user's perception, aka the reason why sharingan is important(iirc).

Never claimed it does.

Four shadow is enough to blitz, Ten Shadow is superior to that,

Ten shadows is vaguely superior to that by the virtue of being his ultimate technique.
In other words that's a completely irrelevant gap compared to something like the chidori that actually has tangible evidence of how much of a blitz it is.

His current ultimate move is more than 30.

Which again has no feats that'd at least semi-quantifiably allow us to say it's better than 4 shadows.

Current Sonic appears to use clones consistently as well.

Which is useless against a sharingan.

Sarada doesn't have 3t sharingan though, no? With t2 alone, i don't think her amp reaches Sonic's.

She has 3 tomoe and has had it for few years now. It's even in her profile.

I said it based on Sarada's danmaku. (Based on the danmaku attack in the profile)

Not claiming something like they can handle 33,333 attack at once, but that they're capable of handling such danmaku attacks.

You literally verbatim said they can handle 33,333 attacks…

Characters like Human Garou could also handle danmaku attacks as well (Inferior to Flashy Flash who current Sonic compares to).

Inferior how? Why would they specifically be inferior to Sonics ability to avoid danmaku? They could be inferior in skill in other ways

He should be able to handle her danmaku attack here (like i said, only based on the attack in her profile).

Has he ever done so? Especially against a character who sees every move he makes before even making it?

How Sonic starts against Flashy Flash. This is his current version, where he uses his clone based attacks consistently. Four shadows is enough to blitz, Ten Shadows even more.

(I honestly don't remember much about Boruto, does Sarada instantly start with sharingans or etc? like, what's her standard tactics?)

Yes sharingan is a standard tactic for her. Yk same way as for every other Uchiha.

 

[Delusionaltx2]

Oh i've misread.

3T hasn't been animated as far as i'm aware.

I don't think that really matters since the manga usually takes precidence over the anime unless stated otherwise.

Also MS isn't included to this key i think.

@Kaydee1648 kara saga uses stuff from TBV correct?

 

[DavidTPPM]

I don't think that really matters since the manga usually takes precidence over the anime unless stated otherwise.

Yes Sarada has the 3rd tomoe here.
Kara saga covers all the way until the end of NNG and Sarada canonically MUST have the 3rd tomoe even going by the anime since Sarada unlocking the MS pre-TS is a core plot point and if you awaken the MS you automatically go from 2t to 3t as well.

So she's 3t regardless of whether we take manga or Anime (her profile also notes she has it in her P&A)

@Kaydee1648 kara saga uses stuff from TBV correct?

No TBV isn't covered in Saradas profile yet. We (Nierre lol) are waiting for more info to drop for that

 

[MrTayman616]

Honestly this is just extremely disingenuous. First of all, like I said before, this is accepted on Saradas profile so arguing against it is meaningless.
Second of all, that's nonsense. Sharingan is a part of their shinobi skills and THE shinobi skill of the Uchihas. Their entire kit is built around utilizing the sharingan. Saying she's more skilled than him as a shinobi doesn't include the sharingan is like saying a swordsman stating another swordsman is a more skilled as a fighter doesn't mean he's more skilled with the sword.

You misunderstood me. I'm completely fine with it being accepted on Sarada's profile. It's there as basic "sharingan" ability rather than anything like "She uses sharingan better than kid Sasuke" etc.

I just refused the claim of "her skill in sharingan is better than Sasuke's" based on Sasuke saying she's a better shinobi. I honestly don't see a necessary connection.

And lastly, I can meet you with that logic. That means Flashy being more skilled than Ian, AS, or anyone else is meaningless. Because "that can be interpreted in countless ways" and doesn't mean he can necessarily keep up with danmaku as skillfully as Ian. Even more so Sonic who's just vaguely comparable to Flashy and other ninjas so ig Sonic is actually a bum.

I call him a bum too.

I can agree with this as well, so i guess it depends on how we scale skill?

You mean Sarada using her SHARINGAN genjutsu has nothing to do with their SHARINGAN skill? Yeah totally

I didn't say that. Is Sasuke incapable of using genjutsu or chooses not to? Even if it was otherwise, does it mean her skill in sharingan is better overall? i wouldn't say so. I mean, Sasuke could have three tomoe while Sarada has two but still not use genjutsu.

And why would that be? I listed a direct scale of amps at least twice now and all I've gotten in response is "well I think Sonic can instantly beat her" .

Ten shadows is vaguely superior to that by the virtue of being his ultimate technique.
In other words that's a completely irrelevant gap compared to something like the chidori that actually has tangible evidence of how much of a blitz it is.

Which again has no feats that'd at least semi-quantifiably allow us to say it's better than 4 shadows.

Lol, i took thirty and ten shadow as blitz level compared to four shadows(based on the numbers ig). My mistake.

So Sonic has one blitz amp and one that is just "higher" while Sarada has three?

She has 3 tomoe and has had it for few years now. It's even in her profile.

Never claimed it does.

I didn't say that you claimed it, i'm just making sure.

You literally verbatim said they can handle 33,333 attacks…

...Yes?

Inferior how? Why would they specifically be inferior to Sonics ability to avoid danmaku? They could be inferior in skill in other ways

Has he ever done so? Especially against a character who sees every move he makes before even making it?

This is completely fair imo. So it depends on how we scale skill in the wiki i guess?

Does the last part matter in her danmaku attack?

Yes sharingan is a standard tactic for her. Yk same way as for every other Uchiha.

I mean, "Uchiha" is quite different in Boruto's era. I just asked if she uses it from the beginning. (simply going based on memories about this)

 

[Delusionaltx2]

Yes Sarada has the 3rd tomoe here.
Kara saga covers all the way until the end of NNG

Ah, so the end of part 1 then

and Sarada canonically MUST have the 3rd tomoe even going by the anime since Sarada unlocking the MS pre-TS is a core plot point and if you awaken the MS you automatically go from 2t to 3t as well.

So she's 3t regardless of whether we take manga or Anime (her profile also notes she has it in her P&A)

Yeah that checks out

No TBV isn't covered in Saradas profile yet. We (Nierre lol) are waiting for more info to drop for that

Can't you guys at least make profiles based on what's happening so far? Or is everyone just too busy with managing the war arc stuff

 

[DavidTPPM]

You misunderstood me. I'm completely fine with it being accepted on Sarada's profile. It's there as basic "sharingan" ability rather than anything like "She uses sharingan better than kid Sasuke" etc.

No it's there as something Sarada can do and specifically mentions the feats and statements regarding Sasuke.

I just refused the claim of "her skill in sharingan is better than Sasuke's" based on Sasuke saying she's a better shinobi. I honestly don't see a necessary connection.

"better shinobi" this is exactly the type of mental gymnastics you're doing to deny the obvious and exactly why I'm saying you're laughably disingenuous.
Sasuke doesn't say she's a better shinobi. He says she's a more skilled shinobi. And he says this specifically when she's asking for advice as well.

I call him a bum too.

I can agree with this as well, so i guess it depends on how we scale skill?

So Sonic just isn't even more skilled than Sarada. Great, Sarada FRA then.

I didn't say that.

That is literally the core of your argument.

Is Sasuke incapable of using genjutsu or chooses not to? Even if it was otherwise, does it mean her skill in sharingan is better overall? i wouldn't say so. I mean, Sasuke could have three tomoe while Sarada has two but still not use genjutsu.

It wouldn't automatically mean she's more skilled if Sasuke didn't outright admit she is when she asks for advice.

Mind you Sarada literally trained her analytical prediction skills with Sasuke and had him impressed after a single day. Training which consisted of dodging a rain of metal balls and kunai completely covering Sarada. And that was just the first tomoe. So again Sasukes comment should absolutely refer to her sharingan skills.

Highkey a crazy skill feat ngl, especially for such a fodder in the verse

So Sonic has one blitz amp and one that is just "higher" while Sarada has three?

Sarada has 2.

...Yes?

And now you're saying they can't when I called you out on it…?

Does the last part matter in her danmaku attack?

Given she's the one shooting and aiming the danmaku, I'd definitely say so. If you know where your opponent is going to dodge you can adjust your aim accordingly.

I mean, "Uchiha" is quite different in Boruto's era. I just asked if she uses it from the beginning. (simply going based on memories about this)

How? If anything she should be more Uchiha-ish given unlike Sasuke her sharingan training came from an actual Uchiha

 

[DavidTPPM]

Ah, so the end of part 1 then
Yeah that checks out

Yep

Can't you guys at least make profiles based on what's happening so far? Or is everyone just too busy with managing the war arc stuff

From what I heard the profile is basically ready but waiting for more feats for Shinjus. Since Saradas scaling is purely based on them (mainly Hidari)

 

[Nierre]

David fra

 

[Kachon123]

I'll vote for Sonic. He has the 2 Shadows Burial technique, which is a great speed amp. After that is the 4 Shadows Burial that was enough to completely reverse a blitz stomp. Then there's the 10 Shadows Burial, which is far superior to that. And then the 30+ Shadows. Just simply based on the shown progression of speed from base to 4, the level of an amp that Sonic has is absolutely insane. When using these attacks, Sonic can spam any of his attacks, which includes his explosive shuriken homing danmaku. Sarada would struggle to keep up with 4 Shadows Burial, let alone a technique that is likely 10x greater.

As for the Sharingan, while it's helpful, I'm not so sure how effective it would be in helping Sarada deal with Sonic's techniques. Characters like Might Guy are able to match Sharingan users through pure skill so it's not like it's an infallible answer for Sarada. It's already been established that Sonic is much more skilled than Sarada in this key, but to elaborate further on that, Bang has already been matched up against Guy and the general consensus was that he wouldn't lose out in martial skill. Flashy Flash himself is said to be the most skilled fighter in the Hero Association, putting him on par with Bang (supported by the fact that he was able to have a prolonged battle with Garou despite not having access to his main weapon and techniques). Flash is also already stated to read the attacks of his opponents several moves in advance. This is thanks to his ninja training, which Sonic taught him. Sonic was also able to match Flash in combat. He's also superior to the likes of Atomic Samurai's disciples and early stages of Garou, both of which have great predictive abilities. All of this to say that even with the Sharingan allowing Sarada to predict some of Sonic's moves, he will be doing the exact same thing to her, except he has the advantages of being more skilled, experienced with fighting ninjas, and much faster at his peak.

If Sonic uses his 30+ Shadow Burial + Homing Exploding Shurikens, Sarada would have absolutely no space to get an attack off, which would leave her open for Sonic to follow up with a finishing attack using his sword. Chidori would get read, dodged, and countered by a 2 Shadows Burial.

 

[DavidTPPM]

I'll vote for Sonic. He has the 2 Shadows Burial technique, which is a great speed amp. After that is the 4 Shadows Burial that was enough to completely reverse a blitz stomp. Then there's the 10 Shadows Burial, which is far superior to that. And then the 30+ Shadows. Just simply based on the shown progression of speed from base to 4, the level of an amp that Sonic has is absolutely insane. When using these attacks, Sonic can spam any of his attacks, which includes his explosive shuriken homing danmaku. Sarada would struggle to keep up with 4 Shadows Burial, let alone a technique that is likely 10x greater.

Making more afterimages doesn't necessitate extra speed, especially not in the way where 40 afterimages are 10x faster than 4. That's just not how we treat it on the wiki.

As for the Sharingan, while it's helpful, I'm not so sure how effective it would be in helping Sarada deal with Sonic's techniques. Characters like Might Guy are able to match Sharingan users through pure skill so it's not like it's an infallible answer for Sarada.

I'll just stop you right there.
Someone with solid 15 years of experience against the sharingan being able to counter it does NOT mean someone who doesn't even know about it can do so as well.

ESPECIALLY not someone who's primary abilities rely on illusions (afterimages) which get hard-countered by the sharingan.

It's already been established that Sonic is much more skilled than Sarada in this key, but to elaborate further on that, Bang has already been matched up against Guy and the general consensus was that he wouldn't lose out in martial skill. Flashy Flash himself is said to be the most skilled fighter in the Hero Association, putting him on par with Bang (supported by the fact that he was able to have a prolonged battle with Garou despite not having access to his main weapon and techniques). Flash is also already stated to read the attacks of his opponents several moves in advance. This is thanks to his ninja training, which Sonic taught him. Sonic was also able to match Flash in combat. He's also superior to the likes of Atomic Samurai's disciples and early stages of Garou, both of which have great predictive abilities. All of this to say that even with the Sharingan allowing Sarada to predict some of Sonic's moves, he will be doing the exact same thing to her, except he has the advantages of being more skilled, experienced with fighting ninjas, and much faster at his peak.

All of this was addressed in like my 1st serious response in the thread back when it was still about Flashy.

Yeah Sonic is more skilled in general but Sarada has straight up precog on top of her analytical prediction which is a BUSTED advantage in a fight meaning no matter what Sonic does to fool her, she's going to see his moves before he performs them.

And she has a ton of other abilities to make up for it. Like paralysis inducing full body lightning armor and lightning danmaku, fireballs, illusions, and chidori which gives her a one shot advantage.

If Sonic uses his 30+ Shadow Burial + Homing Exploding Shurikens, Sarada would have absolutely no space to get an attack off, which would leave her open for Sonic to follow up with a finishing attack using his sword.

Shadow burial gets hard countered by sharingan, homing shurikens get swatted away by literally any of Sarada's wide range jutsu or yk, her own shurikens since she's a master at using those as well to the point she can throw them like boomerangs so they return and hit you from behind, and if Sonic does actually pressure her enough to jump her with a sword he gets genjutsued.

Chidori would get read, dodged, and countered by a 2 Shadows Burial.

So Sonic reads where Sarada will attack, Sarada literally sees exactly where Sonic is trying to dodge, and just hits there instead of where she was going to.

Like that's the problem with precog vs anapre. Precog is infallible (unless you counter it directly which Sonic wouldn't be able to do), analytical prediction isn't.

 

[Kachon123]

Making more afterimages doesn't necessitate extra speed, especially not in the way where 40 afterimages are 10x faster than 4. That's just not how we treat it on the wiki.

This would only be the case if it's not directly stated to be a result of increased speed. Also, I never mentioned that 40 Shadows is 10x faster, just that it's a technique 10x greater, meaning it would be that much more difficult to deal with, especially since speed is also increasing.

I'll just stop you right there.
Someone with solid 15 years of experience against the sharingan being able to counter it does NOT mean someone who doesn't even know about it can do so as well.

ESPECIALLY not someone who's primary abilities rely on illusions (afterimages) which get hard-countered by the sharingan.

Problem is Sonic also has over of a decade of experience dealing with characters with predictive abilities, so this is a valid comparison.

Sorry, but no. Genos' Search Eye allows him to counter and track. people fast enough to blitz him using afterimages, yet when in a state with speed over a blitz level above Sonic, he was completely helpless against 4 Shadows Burial. Sonic has several versions vastly superior to that. Sharingan is not going to answer all the problems Sarada will have to deal with here.

All of this was addressed in like my 1st serious response in the thread back when it was still about Flashy.

Yeah Sonic is more skilled in general but Sarada has straight up precog on top of her analytical prediction which is a BUSTED advantage in a fight meaning no matter what Sonic does to fool her, she's going to see his moves before he performs them.

This does not change what I said. Yes, Sarada will be predicting some of Sonic's moves, but Sonic will be doing the same. He fights people with similar abilities all the time and keeps up fine.

And she has a ton of other abilities to make up for it. Like paralysis inducing full body lightning armor and lightning danmaku, fireballs, illusions, and chidori which gives her a one shot advantage.

Sonic fights using a sword and shuriken, so he has ways around a lightning armor. Most of the rest gets countered by perception manipulation.

Shadow burial gets hard countered by sharingan, homing shurikens get swatted away by literally any of Sarada's wide range jutsu or yk, her own shurikens since she's a master at using those as well to the point she can throw them like boomerangs so they return and hit you from behind, and if Sonic does actually pressure her enough to jump her with a sword he gets genjutsued.

No it does not. Read above.

They are homing shuriken that explode. They are also coming from all around because of Shadow Burial. Sarada will not be able to get a genjutsu off when she can't even pinpoint the real him or take her eyes out of the exploding danmaku surrounding her.

So Sonic reads where Sarada will attack, Sarada literally sees exactly where Sonic is trying to dodge, and just hits there instead of where she was going to.

Like that's the problem with precog vs anapre. Precog is infallible (unless you counter it directly which Sonic wouldn't be able to do), analytical prediction isn't.

He's far too fast.

 

[MrTayman616]

No it's there as something Sarada can do and specifically mentions the feats and statements regarding Sasuke.

Something as Sarada can do as a "sharingan" ability rather than her being superior to Sasuke. I don't see Sasuke's statement here, am i missing it?

"better shinobi" this is exactly the type of mental gymnastics you're doing to deny the obvious and exactly why I'm saying you're laughably disingenuous.
Sasuke doesn't say she's a better shinobi. He says she's a more skilled shinobi. And he says this specifically when she's asking for advice as well.

No. Even now, i'd still say the same thing. I said "better" as more capable, even saying more skilled makes no difference in my eyes.

That's my honest opinion, saying i'm disingenuous based on my wording there saddens me

So Sonic just isn't even more skilled than Sarada. Great, Sarada FRA then.

Lol

That is literally the core of your argument.

I literally just said

Sharingan is what defines an Uchiha, but not that it's what makes them a shinobi. (even more so in Boruto's era).

Sasuke not using Genjutsu with his sharingan can be used for Sarada being better at genjutsu at most.

I don't even understand how it equals to

You mean Sarada using her SHARINGAN genjutsu has nothing to do with their SHARINGAN skill? Yeah totally

It wouldn't automatically mean she's more skilled if Sasuke didn't outright admit she is when she asks for advice.

Mind you Sarada literally trained her analytical prediction skills with Sasuke and had him impressed after a single day. Training which consisted of dodging a rain of metal balls and kunai completely covering Sarada. And that was just the first tomoe. So again Sasukes comment should absolutely refer to her sharingan skills.

Highkey a crazy skill feat ngl, especially for such a fodder in the verse

I mean, when he says "more skilled shinobi", only these comes to me -> ninjutsu, genjutsu, taijutsu overall.

Wasn't the point of the training is to make her master tomoe 1? Him being impressed isn't because "you're a better sharingan user than me back then" or anything like that as far as i'm aware.

Sarada has 2.

And now you're saying they can't when I called you out on it…?

Huh? I said 33,333 hair attack. Each was attacked by around 33,333 hair, the amount of attack is similar to Sarada's (based on what i've seen in her profile)

Like i said before

I said it based on Sarada's danmaku. (Based on the danmaku attack in the profile)

Not claiming something like they can handle 33,333 attack at once, but that they're capable of handling such danmaku attacks.

Given she's the one shooting and aiming the danmaku, I'd definitely say so. If you know where your opponent is going to dodge you can adjust your aim accordingly.

I mean, her danmaku seemingly attacks not only the person but everywhere around, so is there a point of that?

 

[DavidTPPM]

This would only be the case if it's not directly stated to be a result of increased speed.

That's not what the scan says.

Problem is Sonic also has over of a decade of experience dealing with characters with predictive abilities, so this is a valid comparison.

That's not the same as dealing with straight up precog that sharingan provides.

Sorry, but no. Genos' Search Eye allows him to counter and track. people fast enough to blitz him using afterimages, yet when in a state with speed over a blitz level above Sonic, he was completely helpless against 4 Shadows Burial. Sonic has several versions vastly superior to that. Sharingan is not going to answer all the problems Sarada will have to deal with here.

Yeah and standard shunshin let's you blitz people relative to you and yet the user can keep up. 1t provides a significant reaction speed boost allowing you to dodge what you wouldn't normally be able. But they can't keep up with the chidori. But a 2t can. And 3t can keep up with what even 2t can't.

3t > people too fast for 2t > 2 tomoe > chidori speed amp > 1 tomoe > regular shunshin users > base speed.

Like on the wiki we have profiles with a 30x difference between the users regular speed and their sharingan reaction speed. Simple afterimages are not outperforming it, especially due to its anti-illusion passive.

This does not change what I said. Yes, Sarada will be predicting some of Sonic's moves, but Sonic will be doing the same. He fights people with similar abilities all the time and keeps up fine.

Except Sarada is not only predicting his moves but also literally seeing what he's going to do before he does it.
Saradas and Sonics predictions can be fooled but the sharingans precog can't unless you figure out how to counter it.

Which again Sonic doesn't have the IQ for, and his direct fighting style is ironically exactly what the sharingan excels against.

Sonic fights using a sword and shuriken, so he has ways around a lightning armor..

I mean sure I'm not saying it gives her a guaranteed win, I'm saying it'd make the fight way harder for Sonic as getting too close could result in a nasty paralysis.

Most of the rest gets countered by perception manipulation.

Perception manip doesn't work against sharingan.

They are homing shuriken that explode.

I'm aware. Not sure how that's going to help ngl. They just collide with Saradas own shurikens or lightning balls and explode without hitting anyone.

They are also coming from all around because of Shadow Burial. Sarada will not be able to get a genjutsu off when she can't even pinpoint the real him or take her eyes out of the exploding danmaku surrounding her.

Again, sharingan counters shadow burial because it resists illusions and perception manip.

It doesn't matter if Sonic tries to make 4 or 40 afterimages, from Sarada's perspective he'll just pointlessly run back and forth.

 

[DavidTPPM]

Something as Sarada can do as a "sharingan" ability rather than her being superior to Sasuke. I don't see Sasuke's statement here, am i missing it?

The ability in Saradas profile literally quotes the description of Sasukes analytical prediction.

Analytical Prediction (The Sharingan allows its user to clearly anticipate their opponent's next moves and flawlessly counter them[56])

No. Even now, i'd still say the same thing. I said "better" as more capable, even saying more skilled makes no difference in my eyes.

Then you're wrong lol

I mean, when he says "more skilled shinobi", only these comes to me -> ninjutsu, genjutsu, taijutsu overall.

Yeah that would make sense completely out of context.
Except the sharingan plays a MAJOR role in the skill of an Uchiha in all 3 of these categories. Like again so major it's THE thing that defines an Uchiha.

The sharingan is a key when copying, analyzing, and countering ninjutsu, genjutsu, and taijutsu.

Wasn't the point of the training is to make her master tomoe 1?

Yes…? Meaning Sasuke's statement about her skill should 100% include her sharingan skills as that's THE main thing they trained together.

I mean, her danmaku seemingly attacks not only the person but everywhere around, so is there a point of that?

I'm not sure what you mean

 

[Kaydee1648]

bump (need clarification on votes)

 

[Kaydee1648]

New year bump

 

[AlternativePrinciple]

bump (need clarification on votes)

voting Sarada

 

[DavidTPPM]

Yeah Sarada FRA.
(Iirc Nierre also voted Sarada)

 

[Nierre]

I take my vote back tbh (and unfollowing), not really interested in this matchup and i don't feel particularly convinced either way