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Destiny General Discussion Thread

Do we think there are enough abilities to warrant an explanation page for Paracausal entities, Light and Darkness to have a page like this?

vsbattles.fandom.com

The Force (Canon)

The Force[Notes 1] is a mysterious energy field created by life that binds the galaxy together. Harnessing the power of the Force gives the Jedi, the Sith, and others sensitive to this spiritual energy extraordinary abilities, such as levitating objects, tricking minds, and seeing things before...
vsbattles.fandom.com vsbattles.fandom.com
 
WHYNAUT said:
A verse-specific power page would be pointless, but an explanation blog is warranted. There's a lot to cover though, so I've been preoccupied with other things.
Click to expand...
Makes sense, I suppose.

I was wondering why Stasis subclasses don't have chaos manipulation. There are quite a few mentions of Stasis being chaos brought manifest from what I recall.
 
Kaiou1991 said:
I was wondering why Stasis subclasses don't have chaos manipulation. There are quite a few mentions of Stasis being chaos brought manifest from what I recall.
Click to expand...

Because it takes chaos and creates order, instead of the other way around.

The Light could be considered to have chaos manipulation, but imo it's a pointless ability.
 
Is Light and Darkness just accepted as Type 1 CM or as Type 2 information as well?

Oryx's profile seems to imply that Darkness is both, but it's unclear whether Taking is also both or if Darkness is. The Witness has a similar implication, but Rhulk only has Type 1 CM.
 
They're accepted as type 1 concepts, but they play a role in shaping all of creation, including type 2 info.

Ontological weapons/attacks are accepted as having both CM and IM. So Oryx has it because of Taking and because his power can be used to create the Touch of Malice, which is such a weapon.
 
WHYNAUT said:
They're accepted as type 1 concepts, but they play a role in shaping all of creation, including type 2 info.

Ontological weapons/attacks are accepted as having both CM and IM. So Oryx has it because of Taking and because his power can be used to create the Touch of Malice, which is such a weapon.
Click to expand...
I see, makes sense.

Is there a list of ontological weapons in the verse somewhere?
 
Nope. Off the top of my head it's:
  • reality warping abilities of the Vex in the VoG
  • Taking
  • Weapons of Sorrow and comparable Hive implement
  • the Obliteration attack from Awoken Techeuns
  • the Ontological Warhead from Gahlran and by extension Savathûn
  • maybe Xivu's operontelogical warfare
 
I may be wrong, but they're all extensions of the Darkness?

Also, not so random random question, if the Winnower emerged from mathematical structures, how can it be 1-A?
 
Not necessarily. The Vex are implied to have been inspired by Oryx, but they mostly did their own thing without paracausality. Meanwhile the Awoken use both Light and Dark for their magic.

There's a few things to be said about that, but there's one very simple counterpoint: nothing implies the mathematical structures are physical constructs.
 
WHYNAUT said:
Not necessarily. The Vex are implied to have been inspired by Oryx, but they mostly did their own thing without paracausality. Meanwhile the Awoken use both Light and Dark for their magic.
Click to expand...
I forgot the vex aren't even paracausal

WHYNAUT said:
There's a few things to be said about that, but there's one very simple counterpoint: nothing implies the mathematical structures are physical constructs.
Click to expand...
They may not be, but isn't it direct proof they're not qualitatively above mathematics, they're directly and explicitly emerging from mathematical principles? (Which might say a lot more about the role of maths in the cosmology)
 
1-A requires a character to be above material composition, not math. The only reason mathematics matters for the tiers below it is because it's used to model physical structures.
 
WHYNAUT said:
1-A requires a character to be above material composition, not math. The only reason mathematics matters for the tiers below it is because it's used to model physical structures.
Click to expand...
It's a weird case because the tier system essentially says all possible mathematical structures can be represented as some union of lower elements (the basis for low 1-A), but to be 1-A you need to be ontologically beyond any material composition.

It's almost paradoxical for a character to arise from mathematical principles and be ontologically beyond all possible mathematical compositions and any extension thereof.

I'm not sure if the fact that the mathematical principles in the case of the Winnower aren't stated to be physical means anything if you can't have 1-A mathematical concepts, which is what it seems the Winnower is.
 
Kaiou1991 said:
It's a weird case because the tier system essentially says all possible mathematical structures can be represented as some union of lower elements (the basis for low 1-A), but to be 1-A you need to be ontologically beyond any material composition.

It's almost paradoxical for a character to arise from mathematical principles and be ontologically beyond all possible mathematical compositions and any extension thereof.

I'm not sure if the fact that the mathematical principles in the case of the Winnower aren't stated to be physical means anything if you can't have 1-A mathematical concepts, which is what it seems the Winnower is.
Click to expand...

Which they explicitly are, as they are stated to have no constituents.

"We existed as principles of ontological dynamics that emerged from mathematical structures, as bodiless and inevitable as the primes."

To me this reads as the ontological dynamics having emerged from mathematical structures, not the principles.

Even if it did refer to the principles, mathematical concepts do not have an inherent tier. Tiers are only assigned to mathematical structures that describe entities with physical dimensions.
 
Would Maya forcibly pulling III out of the fourth dimension be classified as BFR or dimensional manipulation?
 
WHYNAUT said:
We downscale her yeah.
Click to expand...
Don't we like... smack her up in Witch Queen, and then we're told when we get prismatic that it's the strongest we've ever been, isn't that legitimate low 2-C scaling for prismatic Guardian?
 
The Guardian at their peak would scale to Low 2-C, likely 2-C if they had a page.
 
sukuna171 said:
Is Destiny Rising considered canon? If so, what are your thoughts on this
Click to expand...

Not sure. Afaik no one who works on the main games is involved with it, including all of the writers. For the purposes of the Rising's own story it's apparently an alternate timeline with different what-if scenarios.

The scan itself is kind of a nothingburger though. First it claims the Vex net transcends dimensions and space-time only to then call it a near-infinite space. The description also doesn't entirely line up with information we get from the main games.
 
Oliver_de_jesus said:
So, i trying to fix the Sword logic page, currently busy with University and other stuff, so I need help to make this fast
Click to expand...

The nature section should probably go into the Paracausality explanation blog, which is one of my future projects.

Applications of Sword Logic aren't really divided into specific levels. You just have the basic abilities, standard Ascendant abilities, and then a bunch of miscellaneous stuff varying from Throne Worlds (which are exclusive to Ascendants) to something as simple forcefield creation.

At least 90% of relevant abilities from Sword Logic are present on the character pages themselves, so it's really more of a dated explanation page at this point.
 
WHYNAUT said:
The nature section should probably go into the Paracausality explanation blog, which is one of my future projects
Click to expand...
Alright
WHYNAUT said:
You just have the basic abilities, standard Ascendant abilities, and then a bunch of miscellaneous stuff varying from Throne Worlds (which are exclusive to Ascendants) to something as simple forcefield creation.
Click to expand...
I barely touch that part, hece why i ask help


WHYNAUT said:
At least 90% of relevant abilities from Sword Logic are present on the character pages themselves, so it's really more of a dated explanation page at this point.
Click to expand...
Yeah, i know, that is why we should fix becuase it look like trash or at least add the section to the link for the Accepted layers (i know they are unknown but random people doesn’t)
Like you said, is explanation page, it need to be better than its current state
 
Layers would go in the Paracausality blog. It's more that the Sword Logic page is becoming obsolete than that it needs an update. At some point it can probably just be deleted.
 
For those who have time to read a bunch.

vsbattles.com

Destiny: Abilities Revision (Specific Paracausal Changes)

The title is a lie. The first two changes are general, the rest are tied to specific abilities. Conclusion Paracausal entites get Acausality Type 1 Paracausal entities get Law Manipulation Resonance users get Vibration Manipulation and Information Manipulation Type 2 Inquisition...
vsbattles.com vsbattles.com
 
Pretty sure that's not meant literally. They "are the rules" in the same way that absolute rulers can be said to "be the law".

And Idk if you've read the full interview, but that statement is taken out of context. The question that leads up to this is about why Drifter is now permanently old. Alison tries to make it clear that the Nine and their power are entirely different, not superior, from the known powers. Drifter's situation is a visual showcase of how this power can potentially interact with paracausality.

Of course there's also the fact that both recent and old info already established what the Nine are and that them literally being the rules of paracausal law would be both contradicting previous lore and significant parts of the plot that was set up in Edge of Fate.
 
WHYNAUT said:
An unknown amount above 3 universes (or 4 for the Witness).
Click to expand...
If i put "[Destiny character]'s 2-C rating will be considered 8 universes" in OP for a versus match, to be equal to someone else, what do you think?
 
Nonynho said:
If i put "[Destiny character]'s 2-C rating will be considered 8 universes" in OP for a versus match, to be equal to someone else, what do you think?
Click to expand...
I think that that match couldn't ever be added.

Also every Destiny 2-C to my knowledge has major dura neg of some description.
 
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