Fist Of The North Star Revision Part 3 (High 6-A Scaling)

[TartaChocholate]

I think I found Regenesis in japanese raws. While I still haven't found the scene mentioned above at least I think I have the manga per se. The issue is the first set of scans, which mention the Supernova and Gamma Ray statements. Those don't seem to be from the manga rather a storyboard, artbook or something similar with creator's notes.

 

[Ser_Hakim_Dayne]

Where do the lightspeed statements in character profiles come from btw?

 

[Stefano4444]

Where do the lightspeed statements in character profiles come from btw?

Zhang Taiyan's statement of kicking so fast that he leave no shadow come from the official canon prequel Souten no Ken.

Same with Garudo's statement of moving his first at lightspeed too come from another manga prequel Kinyoku no Garuda that should be Canon.

Also an official site Fist of the North Star LEGENDS ReVIVE also mention both those statements and treat them as true.

 

[Stefano4444]

Those don't seem to be from the manga rather a storyboard, artbook or something similar with creator's notes.

Indeed they aren't present in the OG story.

 

[TartaChocholate]

Indeed they aren't present in the OG story.

Any idea where they may come from? I tried searching the image just in case, but no luck, the cropped bit is too small.

 

[Ser_Hakim_Dayne]

Well, if I understand it correctly, so far the verse scales to Multi-Continental level because the character Jukei states that if the villain Kaioh were to lose the armor restraining his power a disaster of immeasurable proportions would occur. The context is that Jukei has deep knowledge of Kaioh's power, but also is a survivor of the nuclear war that happened in the setting's backstory, which dried up the seas of the planet.

The argument is that since Jukei knows the extent of the damage caused by the nuclear war and acts if as Kaioh was the biggest disaster that could occur, Kaioh then must be more powerful than the nuclear bombs that dried up the seas of the Planet.

That's the point of contention some of us have, it feels farfetched. Jukei doesn't directly say Kaioh is the most powerful force he's ever seen or even compares him to the nuclear war, or even brings the nuclear war up. He simply says it would be disastrous if Kaioh's power was unleashed. The disaster he mentions could occur doesn't necessarily mean in scale, since he also brings up that Kaioh and Hokuto no Ken users are evil, so it could also be taken that if such a terrible individual were to become so powerful who knows what atrotcities he would commit. Then there's the whole matter that it could be hyperbole or a figure of speech to emphasize how dire it would be for Kaioh to gain his power.

Strongly agree

Zhang Taiyan's statement of kicking so fast that he leave no shadow come from the official canon prequel Souten no Ken.

Same with Garudo's statement of moving his first at lightspeed too come from another manga prequel Kinyoku no Garuda that should be Canon.

Also an official site Fist of the North Star LEGENDS ReVIVE also mention both those statements and treat them as true.

Thanks

 

[Silvervigilant]

Strongly agree

Honestly, after Kasumi "holding and contaning the energy from a world destroying nuke from expanding" i don't think Kaioh's statement is really that important now.

 

[Eseseso]

Honestly, after Kasumi "holding and contaning the energy from a world destroying nuke from expanding" i don't think Kaioh's statement is really that important now.

What world-destroying nuke?

 

[Stefano4444]

What world-destroying nuke?

In the latest Regenesis chapter Kenshin, a character stated by word of god to punch with the force of a gamma ray burst and capable of generating energy equal to a supernova by clapping his hands, is currently tanking and ultimately overpowering a blast from Erika, whose power is capable of powering up a device that at a lowball is capable of single-handedly causing the HNK apocalypse and is more consistently stated to be able to "destroy the world" and "turn it to ash".

 

[Stefano4444]

So happy new year, do anyone had come to a consensus if the statements are believable enough to grant at least a 'possibly'?

 

[Antvasima]

What do our staff members currently need to evaluate here?

 

[TartaChocholate]

So happy new year, do anyone had come to a consensus if the statements are believable enough to grant at least a 'possibly'?

I personally I'm iffy on the statements regarding the Cosmic Rays and Solar System stuff and whatnot. It's not that I don't believe that Fist of the North Star could be that strong (and that would be hype as frig), but the scans look off to me, and given how big the change they can lead to I think it's important to have the original raws and a full view of the page instead of a fragment of the page with already translated bits on it and the original text seen only on a translator.

Sorry, don't want to come as a buzzkill or anything, but... to be blunt I've already seen people make up scans in other places.

 

[Antvasima]

What do our staff members currently need to evaluate here?

Anyone?

 

[Biturb0bros]

I personally I'm iffy on the statements regarding the Cosmic Rays and Solar System stuff and whatnot. It's not that I don't believe that Fist of the North Star could be that strong (and that would be hype as frig), but the scans look off to me, and given how big the change they can lead to I think it's important to have the original raws and a full view of the page instead of a fragment of the page with already translated bits on it and the original text seen only on a translator.

Sorry, don't want to come as a buzzkill or anything, but... to be blunt I've already seen people make up scans in other places.

@Twellas where did you find those scans?

 

[Twellas]

Drafts posted by the artist on twitter, here are the pages themselves. Y'all should really just hit me up on Discord if you need input from me

 

[Biturb0bros]

Drafts posted by the artist on twitter, here are the pages themselves. Y'all should really just hit me up on Discord if you need input from me

@TartaChocholate we have the full pages now

 

[TartaChocholate]

Drafts posted by the artist on twitter, here are the pages themselves. Y'all should really just hit me up on Discord if you need input from me

@TartaChocholate we have the full pages now

Alright! Perfect, we now have the proper source. So there shouldn't be issues there.

A minor thing, checking the text it also mentions black holes in the palm and space warping or something like that. So it might be worth checking that, it may translate into abilities.

 

[Twellas]

A minor thing, checking the text it also mentions black holes in the palm and space warping or something like that. So it might be worth checking that, it may translate into abilities.

yeah apparently he can warp space to, and I quote, "move as if traveling through time", it's never elaborated upon and neither is the black hole comment, which is either figurative or refers to the pressure exherted by his Ki.

 

[TartaChocholate]

yeah apparently he can warp space to, and I quote, "move as if traveling through time", it's never elaborated upon and neither is the black hole comment, which is either figurative or refers to the pressure exherted by his Ki.

Maybe ask in the translation thread? For what's worth maybe something can come out of it?

 

[Silvervigilant]

I was re-reading Souten No Ken and I noticed something. In the scene where Kasumi fights the "ghost" wolf, it's not stated that he is in fact a ghost or a soul, the only argument one can make is the fact that after Kasumi kills it, it takes the form of Yahma, or shows an illusion of her (the place was full of illusions btw). And he is indeed not physical, but never stated to be an outright ghost.

The wolf however states that he is the hatred of Seito Gekken. This makes much more sense, since he seems to be older (hundred thousand years) than Yahma (1800 years). And know things about Shuken that she would not be able to know, because she wasn't present.
So instead of this being a Soul Interaction feat, it's more of Abstract Existence Interaction feat. Hokuto Fighters would still have Soul Interaction feats tho, due to the fact that Kasumi was able to touch and interact with souls in Re:Genesis.

Oh, there's also a small correction about Kuroyasha's fighting style. In the Hokuto No Ken official website he's fighting style is said to be Hokuto Soke No Ken, so all his abilities will have to be separated from Hokuto Ryuken.

 

[Silvervigilant]

Some more changes. Toshin No Aura should have Summoning and Holy Manipulation (Ken and Hyoh literally summons Indra, who’s a God and is capable of neutralizing evil Touki).

Gento Users should probably have Absolute Zero (and most fighters should have resistance to it scaling from Namless Shura). Falco was able to completely freeze sand in a 65 feet (at least) radius (the anime offers a better view) and since he was trying to freeze the Nameless Shura and his path it would mean that he froze the sand up 2 feet deep since that's the minimum to completely bury a person (according to the internet). To further confirm this, the Nameless Shura cracked the sand when he began to move, which would not happen had Falco frozen only the surface. (note that the sand is completely solid too) Falco froze all this in about 9 seconds (anime offers a verifiable timeframe unlike the manga). I asked Gemini how cold something would have to be to archive something like this and this was the answer.

 

[Antvasima]

I think that what Silvervigilant mentioned seems fine to apply.

 

[Silvervigilant]

I think that what Silvervigilant mentioned seems fine to apply.

I don't mind to apply it.

 

[Silvervigilant]

Also can anyone tell me what's needed to finish this thread?

 

[Antvasima]

I don't mind to apply it.

@LephyrTheRevanchist

Is that fine with you as well?

 

[LephyrTheRevanchist]

Gento Users should probably have Absolute Zero (and most fighters should have resistance to it scaling from Namless Shura). Falco was able to completely freeze sand in a 65 feet (at least) radius (the anime offers a better view) and since he was trying to freeze the Nameless Shura and his path it would mean that he froze the sand up 2 feet deep since that's the minimum to completely bury a person (according to the internet). To further confirm this, the Nameless Shura cracked the sand when he began to move, which would not happen had Falco frozen only the surface. (note that the sand is completely solid too) Falco froze all this in about 9 seconds (anime offers a verifiable timeframe unlike the manga). I asked Gemini how cold something would have to be to archive something like this and this was the answer.

We don't give absolute zero without an explicit statement, much less using an AI to explain a scene from the manga. Temperature Manipulation is fine overall, but not absolute zero. Instead, given the anime explicitly shows an ice-type substance surrounding the sand, I'd say is more likely he froze the oxygen in between the sand, so whatever temperature needed to freeze oxygen.

Some more changes. Toshin No Aura should have Summoning and Holy Manipulation (Ken and Hyoh literally summons Indra, who’s a God and is capable of neutralizing evil Touki).

This seems fine

is the hatred of Seito Gekken.

This scan doesn't show up for me.

able to touch and interact with souls in Re:Genesis.

These souls are projecting shadows and crawling on the floor, so I'm not sure we would consider them intangible by default to warrant NPI here.

 

[Antvasima]

Thank you for helping out.

 

[Silvervigilant]

We don't give absolute zero without an explicit statement, much less using an AI to explain a scene from the manga. Temperature Manipulation is fine overall, but not absolute zero. Instead, given the anime explicitly shows an ice-type substance surrounding the sand, I'd say is more likely he froze the oxygen in between the sand, so whatever temperature needed to freeze oxygen.

Ok

This scan doesn't show up for me.

Here

These souls are projecting shadows and crawling on the floor, so I'm not sure we would consider them intangible by default to warrant NPI here.

Well ignoring the fact that they are literally souls and that should be enough to grant him that, the are clearly draw as kind of transparent.

 

[LephyrTheRevanchist]

Well ignoring the fact that they are literally souls and that should be enough to grant him that, the are clearly draw as kind of transparent.

Fiction do be wild sometimes

Literally show any scan at all of souls being intangible in the verse and it'd be fine. But genuinely, them crawling and projecting shadows is a bit iffy if that's the only depiction.

Here

Imgur really doesn't want me to see that scan...

I tried inserting the image directly on the wiki from the link and not even the forums can load it directly. Try uploading it through imgchest if you can. I apologize in advance, but it genuinely doesn't let me see it.

 

[Silvervigilant]

Literally show any scan at all of souls being intangible in the verse and it'd be fine. But genuinely, them crawling and projecting shadows is a bit iffy if that's the only depiction.

Well there's Toki soul phasing through fire in the second Raoh Den movie which is semi canon.

Imgur really doesn't want me to see that scan...

I tried inserting the image directly on the wiki from the link and not even the forums can load it directly. Try uploading it through imgchest if you can. I apologize in advance, but it genuinely doesn't let me see it.

Here.

 

[LephyrTheRevanchist]

Well there's Toki soul phasing through fire in the second Raoh Den movie which is semi canon.

Here.

Perfect, I agree fully for both now.

 

[Silvervigilant]

Perfect, I agree fully for both now.

Ok, so the Absolute Zero needs to be removed.

 

[Hagane_no_Saiyajin]

Are we going to get back to the High 6-A stuff or no?

 

[Armorchompy]

Setting aside higher tiers, is the Kaioh stuff the only High 6-A feat? That doesn't seem like it warrants a rating.

 

[Stefano4444]

In the latest Regenesis chapter Kenshin, a character stated by word of god to punch with the force of a gamma ray burst and capable of generating energy equal to a supernova by clapping his hands, is currently tanking and ultimately overpowering a blast from Erika, whose power is capable of powering up a device that at a lowball is capable of single-handedly causing the HNK apocalypse and is more consistently stated to be able to "destroy the world" and "turn it to ash".
Stressing over that Kaioh statement is so goofy to me when this is the level of power that's more consistently displayed once you actually look into it

 

[Armorchompy]

I'm not sure I understand what the "destroy the world" gallery is actually getting at, most of the scans (like the "used as a weapon" and "mustered all his strength") seem unrelated. How does she power this, and how long does it take her? And how does the device actually function?

 

[Silvervigilant]

I'm not sure I understand what the "destroy the world" gallery is actually getting at, most of the scans (like the "used as a weapon" and "mustered all his strength") seem unrelated. How does she power this, and how long does it take her? And how does the device actually function?

Let see if i can explain correctly.

• Simeon (the antagonist), one of the last surviving member of the Horeb clan seeks to fulfill an ancient prophecy found in the Book of Horeb. His goal is to "purify" and reshape the world to end constant armed conflitcs caused by those in power (As you can see, the savior described in the prophecy is shown to be the OG Kenshiro, which means that Simeon wants to turn the world into that we see in FOTNS)
• He then wants to activate his clan's ultimate weapon, which is called "The Thunderbolt of The Heavenly Emperor". It is a technological and spiritual marvel developed by the survivors of the Horeb clan, specifically the Nagid family, who sought revenge after being hunted and destroyed by greedy nations. The Clan's chief gave all his power and knowledge to Simeon himself and his sister Erika.
• Erika herself serves as the control key and vessel for this power. But to activate it she must awaken the power of Heavenly Emperor. When activated, it generates "Black Lightning" capable of disintegrating human beings instantly. The energy is so volatile that even the Simeon’s high-ranking subordinates can barely withstand the barrier it creates. (Kasumi Easily breaks thorugh tho).
• Even after Kasumi managned to quell the rampaging energy from Erika, the Thunderbolt's activation was already in progress, even engulfing and destroying the city even before starting the detonation, just the emanating energy around it.
• Then Kasumi and Kenshin (Both heavily exausted and nearly faltally wounded from their fight) use their last bit of strength to hold and contain the expanding implosion from it's core with just sheer power. The shockwaves alone were powerful enough to create a gigantic crater on the ground, and after Ken and Kenshin (both only able to use one arm) throw it into space, you can see it distorts the clouds all around the planet in it's way up. The Thunderbolt then detonates harmlessly in the upper atmosphere/space, appearing like a distant star or a brief flash of light to those below.
• In his final moments, Kasumi is then visited by The Taoist (A omnicient like being) who tells him that what he's done may as well been in vain, because "In due time, The Thunderbolt of The Heavenly Emperor will surely be reborn" and he also mentions that "at that very moment a New Legend of Hokuto shall be born". (Again making it clear that The Thunderbolt would have had the same effect on the earth as the Nuclear War of 199X, which as we know, cracked the Earth and dried the seas.)

I hope this was enough to make things clear. Once you know the context this becomes the most unambiguously high end feat of the series.

 

[Armorchompy]

This seems fine, then. The powering stuff is a little suspect but them briefly containing and overpowering it should by all means scale.

What I'd cast doubt on is the actual High 6-A rating itself. I don't think what happened is that the entire oceans all were vaporized at once, they just... dried up. This happened as a result of the apocalypse of course but it was probably overtime as a result from the climate change, a blast powerful enough to do that much damage would wipe out life on Earth entirely, whereas there's still a lot of people going around, and even bigger animals like horses and so on.

Either way that's a matter for another thread if you want to pursue it, which I think you should but don't have the interest to. This is okay.

 

[Silvervigilant]

This seems fine, then. The powering stuff is a little suspect but them briefly containing and overpowering it should by all means scale.

What I'd cast doubt on is the actual High 6-A rating itself. I don't think what happened is that the entire oceans all were vaporized at once, they just... dried up. This happened as a result of the apocalypse of course but it was probably overtime as a result from the climate change, a blast powerful enough to do that much damage would wipe out life on Earth entirely, whereas there's still a lot of people going around, and even bigger animals like horses and so on.

This is a fair assumption but, there's calcs that put the verse's nukes on that level, The Thunderbolt would scale to all the nukes dropped on the Nuclear War of 199X. The reason why alot of people lived is probably due to the fact that the verse has bunkers much more durable than that of real life.

 

[Armorchompy]

This is a fair assumption but, there's calcs that put the verse's nukes on that level,

That's not approved and I probably wouldn't approve using cloud movements, though the YT link is broken. Fair point those are like 6-A minimum.

The Thunderbolt would scale to all the nukes dropped on the Nuclear War of 199X. The reason why alot of people lived is probably due to the fact that the verse has bunkers much more durable than that of real life.

Fair enough on the bunkers, I remember that being a plot point (I actually happen to be reading through the series right now lol), though IDK if I'd say those are more durable necessarily, bunch of steel and concrete isn't that far off. Still, I can buy that's how people survived.