Mori wants to fight a pokemon for some reason - Mori Jin (The God of Highschool) vs Deoxys (Pokemon) - [0-0-0]

[Delusionaltx2]

To be clear. If the argument becomes "This character can go out tier in all aspects" then either that ability has to be restricted (since it's going out of tier) or it's a stomp/spite and the thread should be closed.

Anything above 5-B is restricted so the sub value David is referring to would be the 19x amp I was talking abt

Edit: That said I could be wrong but the Amp based on profiles applies to AP and LS not speed so deoxys should be able to react still if not be faster (thanks to its multiple ways of amping it stats)

 

[DavidTPPM]

Okay so can I get a TLDR on what stops Mori from skill-checking the living hell out of Deoxys and ripping him apart?

 

[Delusionaltx2]

Okay so can I get a TLDR on what stops Mori from skill-checking the living hell out of Deoxys and ripping him apart?

Sorry we've mostly been discussing weather or not acupuncture would work which may or may not be a waste of time

Deoxys has like a LOT of abilities so I suggest just going through them all with poke supps

Some notable ones are the mind hax though that it can do later on (granted I'm pretty sure he doesn't lead with this thankfully)

There were also some psychic the moves like power swap and guard swap which can mess with the stat advantage along with TR for the speed advantage (if mori has one) along with way more stuff

 

[DavidTPPM]

Sorry we've mostly been discussing weather or not acupuncture would work which may or may not be a waste of time

Setto pretty much told you it's a waste of time like mid convo

Okay so back to square one it is then

 

[Delusionaltx2]

Setto pretty much told you it's a waste of time like mid convo

I was yapping then

 

[Delusionaltx2]

Anyways since both sides are here I'll just count votes (I need to sleep anyways)

Okay so can I get a TLDR on what stops Mori from skill-checking the living hell out of Deoxys and ripping him apart?

@Udlmaster

 

[DavidTPPM]

Anyways since both sides are here I'll just count votes (I need to sleep anyways)

I think it's too soon to vote given there really hasn't been much discussion tbh

@Udlmaster

You can't tag people, it won't send them a notification. Only staff can

If you want to do so you'll have to reply to their message so they get a quote notification like this

.

 

[Udlmaster]

Meridians are literally referred to by doctors as highways within the body, Chinese medicine doesn't just magically make meridians exists since it's already there

Meridians ARE Chinese Medicine. They do not exist in reality. Your source is NOT from a Doctor but an editor for a website which has no qualifications. Doing even BASIC research would show you this.

Doctors do not say anything about Meridians besides that they do not exist and are pseudo-science.

This is no different than Medieval Alchemy, which is pseudo-science in real life. Point being, this is like saying "Albedo is literally referred to by Scientists as the process of cleaning".

Just do the most baseline research on the topic before going forward and citing new age pseudo-science and not the classical Chinese Folk Medicine which is the basis for Mori-Jin's techniques.

That's like me using the rambling delusions of a Flat-Earther who believes the Pyramids were made by Aliens as justification for Deoxys' stats being higher.

Deoxys isn't dead...the most you can say is that maybe it has different meridians but that doesn't really matter since it's still there and mori would see it immediately

I didn't say Deoxys was dead, I gave you an example of something which doesn't have meridians in Chinese Folk Medicine.

Deoxys is still sentient matter which alone categorizes it as alive

That is not the only characteristic of something being alive. Deoxys is a Virus, which in Biology is the blurred line between what even be considered living or alive. Likewise, it is missing many of the characteristics for what makes something living, the list being:

"All living organisms share several key characteristics or functions: order, sensitivity or response to the environment, reproduction, adaptation, growth and development, homeostasis, energy processing, and evolution."

Further more, sentience =/= biological life. Sentience does not imply organs, blood, meridians, pressure points or tissues.

He's analyzed stuff that isn't even humanoid before, and is used to making new fighting styles on the fly to defeat enemies he'll grasp the already similar human structure immediately

Which is not what those scans showed. Your scans show him analysing his opponent's attacks and the guy going "He absorbed my move!".

Deoxys isn't different enough from a human structurally to suggest this is a good comparison he isn't a formless blob for example so you would still have to actually explain why deoxys is so much different from a human that it just wouldn't work beyond "He's an alien!"

Oh my god.

It has no lungs. It has no heart. It has no brain. It has no circulatory system. It has no blood. It has no organs. It has no internal system.

What about this fundamental difference are you not getting?

Are you even reading what I'm saying, I've said this multiple times. Do you think a human can live without all these things????

The only thing he needs to do is to find weak points in the body that he can exploit; yeah he has no organs or blood but as long as his body still has a basoc structure that's good enough

What structure?

It's shape does not denote anything.

Not only that but he's precise enough to analyze opponents through just bodily contact so there is also the possibility he just touches deoxys each time and figures it out

So he just keeps missing as Deoxys just keeps moving it around even if it does have any meridian points, which it doesn't.

If iirc you said deoxys would hit him with a ton of stuff before then so I don't see how this is a pivot

It's a pivot mid-point to divert to an older one.

That is true which is a part of what makes the fight interesting but mori can counter attacks after seeing them once he's dodging most of them

I don't see how Mori is dodging attacks like Deoxys' telekinesis and just blendering him or just separating his head from his neck.

I'm asking why it wouldn't

You said that deoxys isn't at all remotely similar to a human

I said deoxys is still humanoid and therefore has a basic structure for mori to follow

Your the one arguing for this structure being so much different than what mori has seen before that he just wouldn't be able to analyze it, you'd have to prov that since that's your claim

I have told you ad nauseum why it's fundamentally different. I'm not repeating myself again. Either respond to it or drop the point because you're just ignoring my point to just keep on espousing your opening statement.

Deoxys isn't a rock so mute point

Deoxys' core is, which is what that point was discussing. Please keep up.

Deoxys has cells

Muscles are just cells bundled up together

If deoxys cells are bundled together its body would be mimicking something similar to mucles

Conclusion: it works

Cells =/= Muscles

Muscles are a type of specialised, multi-cellular tissue with fibres, actin/myosin and fixed directions for contractions.

Just because something is a Cell does not mean it's Muscle.

Your eyes are not muscles. Your liver is not a muscle.

Cells being muscles wasn't the argument it was the inverse actually that being the fact that muscles are just cells grouped together

Deoxys having muscles or anything similar to that automatically dismisses the idea acupuncture doesn't work because IRL muscles are confirmed to have these weak points

Also slimes are single celled so you would have to prove deoxys is single celled

How can Deoxys have muscles when it has none of the other system to support it?

Basic biology lesson: Muscles are a complex group that need a huge number of things to work such as tendons, oxygen, energy, etc. Which Deoxys clearly does not provide as it has no internal system as clearly seen when it has half it's body and it's just more of itself like a block.

Likewise, Meridians are not located in the muscles. Pressure points rely on nerves, sinews and for Meridians, the qi pathways, not just muscle tissue.

Inventing an entirely new biological rule that does not even exist in Chinese Folk Medicine is beyond peak Head canon.

Changing anatomy =/= not having one at all

If it is changing it's anatomy then that simply means it's gaining a new one so nothing changes

If Anatomy changes:

1. Pressure points move
2. Locations of vulnerabilities are not fixed
3. Tissue becomes unpredictable

Adaption is only possible when the opponent doesn't lack a stable physiology and may not even have any pressure points int he first place, and the opponent isn't alive in a biological sense.

Body shape is a part of and literally plays a core role in body structure

Wrong. I am not repeating myself, actually read what I am saying.

That's still a similarity which is good enough

No it's not. You also look like a monkey, are you now a monkey? Monkeys also look like types of star fish, are all monkeys now star fish because "still a similarity which is good enough", by your flawed logic, Humans have the same anatomy as Star fish.

1. Dura neg accupuncture if it hits the core would just delete it completely since unlike the main body it's anatomy is MUCH simpler so there shouldn't even be any room there
2.Mori can also just AD to a point he just overpowers it

That is not how that works.

Basically mori can apperently use JA in lesser versions to amp himself rather than the complete 190000x boost

3.8 rotations is the baseline for 5-A mori can grow around 19x stronger before he reaches/surpassess that threshold so that's his limit

This seems like an arbitrary limit to avoid what is a spite thread.

 

[DavidTPPM]

This seems like an arbitrary limit to create a spite thread.

That's just how vs threads are generally made in cases where characters can breach tier. You can only restrict tier jumping.

And calling it a spite thread just because one side can overcome an AP disadvantage is silly. Where was this when the guy with high-mid regen had a 4x AP/dura advantage and you believed the opponents primary duraneg didn't even work on them? An unkillable alien god with a nearly one shot advantage wasn't a stomp but a guy with a stick being able to gain an AP advantage is a spite match? Be so fr with me

 

[Udlmaster]

That's just how vs threads are generally made in cases where characters can breach tier. You can only restrict tier jumping.

And calling it a spite thread just because one side can overcome an AP disadvantage is silly. Where was this when the guy with high-mid regen had a 4x AP/dura advantage and you believed the opponents primary duraneg didn't even work on them? An unkillable alien god with a nearly one shot advantage wasn't a stomp but a guy with a stick being able to gain an AP advantage is a spite match? Be so fr with me

The argument is already that Jin is supposedly much faster.

So the argument becomes "So they're also 19x stronger, 32x faster" which is a stomp and a mismatch at that point.

 

[DavidTPPM]

The argument is already that Jin is supposedly much faster.

Speed is equalized (otherwise Deoxys should actually be slightly faster)

So the argument becomes "So they're also 19x stronger"

Well first of all Jeahbongchim x19 isn't really a thing so it'd be 16x instead, since that's thy closest version to it.
Second of all Mori can only go up to 1.59e34 Joules. Deoxys scales to 3.75e33 Joules. That's only a 4.24x advantage for Mori, literally less than what Deoxys starts with. Yeah it's a 19x jump but you forgot to include the fact Mori is starting physically weaker.
And lastly Jeahbongchim isn't a starting move. After Jeahbongchim runs out Mori suffers unimaginable pain so he only uses it when he's forced to using it.

So Mori is probably going to outgrow Deoxys in AP before even thinking of using Jeahbongchim.

 

[Delusionaltx2]

Meridians ARE Chinese Medicine. They do not exist in reality. Your source is NOT from a Doctor but an editor for a website which has no qualifications. Doing even BASIC research would show you this.

"explains Di Guan, LAc, DAOM, who practices acupuncture and Chinese medicine at Shén Acupuncture and Meditation Studio in Minneapolis"

It's from a guy who also studies medicine not an editor...

Doctors do not say anything about Meridians besides that they do not exist and are pseudo-science.

Actually based on a 2022 study about it(fairly recent); studies show that acupuncture does exist and can be used for treatments

This is no different than Medieval Alchemy, which is pseudo-science in real life. Point being, this is like saying "Albedo is literally referred to by Scientists as the process of cleaning".

Again it exists IRL

Just do the most baseline research on the topic before going forward and citing new age pseudo-science and not the classical Chinese Folk Medicine which is the basis for Mori-Jin's techniques.

Here are multiple sources explaining the benefits of acupuncture IRL (proving that it does exist)

Acupuncture

Acupuncture is a traditional Chinese method used to relieve some health conditions and symptoms, such as pain. Learn more about this technique.

my.clevelandclinic.org

Is it time to give acupuncture a try for pain relief? - Harvard Health

Acupuncture may be an alternative to conventional treatments for chronic pain. ...

www.health.harvard.edu

Discovering the Ways that Acupuncture Can Benefit You! - Soleil PT

Learn how acupuncture can benefit you by contacting Soleil Physical Therapy & Wellness in Boston or Quincy, MA today!

soleilpt.com

That's like me using the rambling delusions of a Flat-Earther who believes the Pyramids were made by Aliens as justification for Deoxys' stats being higher.

Unlike flat earth sources actually confirm that this exists

I didn't say Deoxys was dead, I gave you an example of something which doesn't have meridians in Chinese Folk Medicine.

So your trying to say deoxys doesn't have meridians but then just site an example of something not comparable to deoxys at all?

That is not the only characteristic of something being alive. Deoxys is a Virus, which in Biology is the blurred line between what even be considered living or alive. Likewise, it is missing many of the characteristics for what makes something living, the list being:

"All living organisms share several key characteristics or functions: order, sensitivity or response to the environment, reproduction, adaptation, growth and development, homeostasis, energy processing, and evolution."

Further more, sentience =/= biological life. Sentience does not imply organs, blood, meridians, pressure points or tissues.

- deoxys responds to the environment around it

- deoxys can adapt and grow

- deoxys can process energy

- depths has homeostasis

- deoxys can't reproduce

- deoxys can't evolve

There is like 4 similarities that deoxys has to living organisms and the two things it doesn't have isn't even necessary for acupuncture to work

Yes sentience alone doesn't imply organs and what not but it DOES imply that it is living/mostly living so it's body can at least be equated as such

Which is not what those scans showed. Your scans show him analysing his opponent's attacks and the guy going "He absorbed my move!".

So if the scan shows that he can make up techniques that work on things that unlike deoxys don't even resemble a human then why is this not what the sca

Oh my god.

It has no lungs. It has no heart. It has no brain. It has no circulatory system. It has no blood. It has no organs. It has no internal system.

What about this fundamental difference are you not getting?

Are you even reading what I'm saying, I've said this multiple times. Do you think a human can live without all these things????

- cool it still have a body with shape therefore has structure

- It has shape therefore structure... you're saying it doesn't have internal organs; neat! I'm saying as long as it still has a structure to go off then pressure points will still work which is why I don't understand why there is a difference

- once again I'm not saying he needs to be human I'm just saying he needs to have structure, I brought up his humanoid shape to establish that his body has a structure, yes we don't know the specifics but we know he has one which is enough

What structure?

Literally it's body

It's shape does not denote anything.

yes it does it literally denotes him as being humanoid which is more than enough

So he just keeps missing as Deoxys just keeps moving it around even if it does have any meridian points, which it doesn't.

Mori flys over towards him and closes the distance or just uses yeoi or smth instead

It's a pivot mid-point to divert to an older one.

No it's just a point...

I don't see how Mori is dodging attacks like Deoxys' telekinesis and just blendering him or just separating his head from his neck.

He doesn't even need to worry about anything TK related since his 31x LS advantage completely shuts that down

I have told you ad nauseum why it's fundamentally different. I'm not repeating myself again. Either respond to it or drop the point because you're just ignoring my point to just keep on espousing your opening statement.

Your reasoning as to why is that lack of internal organs somehow makes it so much different from a human that it just doesn't have a bodily structure to go off of.

Oh and it changing structure somehow prevents it from having one...maybe this is a strawman (I hope not) but thats kinda what seems to be the case here

Deoxys' core is, which is what that point was discussing. Please keep up.

So you do realize that the core unlike deoxys doesn't change right?

Cells =/= Muscles

Muscles are a type of specialised, multi-cellular tissue with fibres, actin/myosin and fixed directions for contractions.

Said tissue comes from once again...bundled cells...if you have bundled cells you would have muscle tissue or something similar to that

Just because something is a Cell does not mean it's Muscle.

Cool the argument was that having cells automatically means the body now either has muscles or mimics muscles in some way not that cells and muscles are the same thing

Your eyes are not muscles. Your liver is not a muscle.

These are organs which are typically composed of muscles....

How can Deoxys have muscles when it has none of the other system to support it?

By having bundled cells...

Basic biology lesson: Muscles are a complex group that need a huge number of things to work such as tendons, oxygen, energy, etc. Which Deoxys clearly does not provide as it has no internal system as clearly seen when it has half it's body and it's just more of itself like a block.

Said complex group is once again...CELLS if deoxys has cells that are being bundled together then regardless of its shape or structure it has muscles or something similar

Likewise, Meridians are not located in the muscles. Pressure points rely on nerves, sinews and for Meridians, the qi pathways, not just muscle tissue.

Medians are just pathways energy flows through the body with muscles being an example

If deoxys has anything similar to a muscle in this regard which it automatically would if it has cells then this works

Inventing an entirely new biological rule that does not even exist in Chinese Folk Medicine is beyond peak Head canon.

That kinda fails to address the fact that since this is fiction it's possible for stuff not possible IRL to be made possible with context ofc

If Anatomy changes:

1. Pressure points move

Yet still exist

1. Locations of vulnerabilities are not fixed

Which would just be analyzed again on sight

1. Tissue becomes unpredictable

Once again he looks at it and that's it

Adaption is only possible when the opponent doesn't lack a stable physiology

Adaption is also possible if mori has the means to just analyze it changing itself and recognize said changes which he can

and may not even have any pressure points int he first place, and the opponent isn't alive in a biological sense.

He meets like 4/6 similarities living things have, at worst we consider him mostly living

Wrong. I am not repeating myself, actually read what I am saying.

Read above

No it's not. You also look like a monkey, are you now a monkey?

No but that would mean that to an extent I would have to be anatomically similar to a monkey

Monkeys also look like types of star fish, are all monkeys now star fish because "still a similarity which is good enough", by your flawed logic,

Monkeys don't look like star fish at all...where are you getting this from?

If your trying to say monkeys have body parts that resemble a starfish I hate to break it to you but we're comparing something who's entire body is humanoid verses like a slight resemble se with fur...

Humans have the same anatomy as Star fish.

So if humans used pressure points on starfish it would work then


Anyways it seems pointless to continue arguing for pressure points if mori's attacks will just go through deoxys anyways (granted he won't completely one shot because of regen) because of AD

That is not how that works.

The profile literally states he can jump from like low 7-B to 5-B with it and supporters are literally saying this is exactly how it works

This seems like an arbitrary limit to avoid what is a spite thread.

No, this has been used in other threads before

Mori Jin vs Naruto Uzumaki (New Era)| (Mori vote= 7| Naruto vote= 0

Mori Jin Vs Naruto Uzumaki (New Era) Mori Jin (The God of High Schoo) vs Naruto Uzumaki (New Era) (Naruto) Naruto start in 6 paths sage mode Key- Low 5-B for both and don't go 5-B Speed equalised Battle field moon🌕 Who win and how

vsbattles.com

He just has this

The argument is already that Jin is supposedly much faster.

Not really, it's just like what David said

"what stops Mori from skill-checking the living hell out of Deoxys and ripping him apart?"

So the argument becomes "So they're also 19x stronger, 32x faster" which is a stomp and a mismatch at that point.

Depending on if it even buffs speed ofc and also he doesn't lead with this either so it's in the same boat as deoxys using mind manip...

 

[Delusionaltx2]

Speed is equalized (otherwise Deoxys should actually be slightly faster)

Actually deoxys is 4.86x faster than mori with speed not equalized (although mori can predict instantaneous attacks ahead of time so it wouldn't be that much of an issue)

that said, I doubt it matters if his AD also boosts speed as well but if not and it happens to be a stomp in mori's favor, I could unequalize speed to give Deoxys the speed edge

 

[DavidTPPM]

Actually deoxys is 4.86x faster than mori with speed not equalized (although mori can predict instantaneous attacks ahead of time so it wouldn't be that much of an issue)

that said, I doubt it matters if his AD also boosts speed as well but if not and it happens to be a stomp in mori's favor, I could unequalize speed to give Deoxys the speed edge

Mori also heavily upscales from his value here so I doubt it'd help much.

The chain basically goes part 4 Mori > late part 3 Mori ~ Sujin ~ early part 3 MK Mori >~ 200,000c

But after part 3 Mori went through absolutely ridiculous training (his MK mode went from >5-B/200,000c to >4-A/4,000,000c and Mori even says he trained so much his memory of it is foggy) meaning his speed in base should also be leagues above what it was before.

 

[Udlmaster]

Actually based on a 2022 study about it(fairly recent); studies show that acupuncture does exist and can be used for treatments

Acupuncture and Chi meridians are not the same. Dude. ANY research would show you this.

The meridian system (simplified Chinese: 经络; traditional Chinese: 經絡; pinyin: jīngluò; lit. 'meridian and collaterals'), also called channel network, is a pseudoscientific concept from traditional Chinese medicine (TCM) that alleges meridians are paths through which the life-energy known as "qi" (ch'i) flows.

They do not exist in real life, so there is no real life standard you can pull on to force them onto Deoxys.

Here are multiple sources explaining the benefits of acupuncture IRL (proving that it does exist)

Acupuncture is not Chi meridians. Meridians do. Not. Exist.

Unlike flat earth sources actually confirm that this exists

No it doesn't, because you're intentionally switching the proof before presenting it:

1. Meridians don't exist
2. Show proof for Acupuncture
3. Doesn't prove the existence of Meridians.

- deoxys responds to the environment around it

- deoxys can adapt and grow

- deoxys can process energy

- depths has homeostasis

- deoxys can't reproduce

- deoxys can't evolve

There is like 4 similarities that deoxys has to living organisms and the two things it doesn't have isn't even necessary for acupuncture to work

Deoxys doesn't process energy. It doesn't consume anything. It doesn't take anything in as a requirement to survive.

Everything above is the requirement for what is classified as "alive", as all Living things share all these traits.

So if the scan shows that he can make up techniques that work on things that unlike deoxys don't even resemble a human then why is this not what the sca

Go back and read my point properly.

- cool it still have a body with shape therefore has structure

- It has shape therefore structure... you're saying it doesn't have internal organs; neat! I'm saying as long as it still has a structure to go off then pressure points will still work which is why I don't understand why there is a difference

- once again I'm not saying he needs to be human I'm just saying he needs to have structure, I brought up his humanoid shape to establish that his body has a structure, yes we don't know the specifics but we know he has one which is enough

It doesn't have human anatomy. Hello?

Everything that exists has the abstract idea of "structure" but that's not what we're talking about. This is obfuscation, a post-hoc escape hatch to try and re-define the debate.

Not one is denying that Deoxys has structure in the most literal, abstract sense that it exists. We are arguing that it does not have HUMAN structure, things which make up the HUMAN body.

When you do not have these things, application of HUMAN structure does not apply.

yes it does it literally denotes him as being humanoid which is more than enough

No it's not.

He doesn't even need to worry about anything TK related since his 31x LS advantage completely shuts that down

How would that stop Deoxys from removing his head???

Your reasoning as to why is that lack of internal organs somehow makes it so much different from a human that it just doesn't have a bodily structure to go off of.

Oh and it changing structure somehow prevents it from having one...maybe this is a strawman (I hope not) but thats kinda what seems to be the case here

YES. OH MY GOD YES.

HUMANS NEED ORGANS, BLOOD AND NERVES. HAVE YOU EVER TAKEN A BIOLOGY CLASS????

So you do realize that the core unlike deoxys doesn't change right?

Do you realise, the core, unlike Deoxys, is a rock.

Which don't have Chi meridians in Traditional Chinese Medicine.

Said tissue comes from once again...bundled cells...if you have bundled cells you would have muscle tissue or something similar to that

Your argument is so absurd and so bad that you're in effect arguing the entire human body is muscle.

Are you aware there's animals in the animal kingdom that move without muscle tissue? Did you do any research before acting like you are the arbiter of the Animal Kingdom and all Biology?

These are organs which are typically composed of muscles....

Your cornea, lens and retina do not have muscle tissue in them. Oh my god.

And the brain has NO muscle tissue. You are just factually, objectively wrong.

Said complex group is once again...CELLS if deoxys has cells that are being bundled together then regardless of its shape or structure it has muscles or something similar

Not all cells are Muscle cells.

Your false generalisation isn't flying here and I'm not repeating myself a fourth time to your debunked point.

Medians are just pathways energy flows through the body with muscles being an example

If deoxys has anything similar to a muscle in this regard which it automatically would if it has cells then this works

No, see my previous posts.

That kinda fails to address the fact that since this is fiction it's possible for stuff not possible IRL to be made possible with context ofc

You don't get to insert your contradictory head canon into a debate because you want it to or because it's fiction.

No but that would mean that to an extent I would have to be anatomically similar to a monkey

I am so glad you are not a biologist or on any credible scientific board because the way you failed with your own logic and then dropped it to go with a Mott and Bailey position is legendary.

Monkeys don't look like star fish at all...where are you getting this from?

5 pronged star fish can be visually assigned legs, arms and the top leg being a head.

Your entire argument is based on visually Deoxys looks Humanoid. Your visual argument is that poor.

So if humans used pressure points on starfish it would work then

NO.

OH MY GOD.

IF YOU TRIED HUMAN PRESSURE POINTS ON A STAR FISH, IT WOULD FAIL. BECAUSE LOOKING LIKE SOMETHING DOESN'T MEAN IT IS LIKE IT.

He just has this

And just so happened to win in a landslide.

This is ticking all the boxes for me.

Not really, it's just like what David said

"what stops Mori from skill-checking the living hell out of Deoxys and ripping him apart?"

Because skill doesn't negate everything Deoxys has???

Doesn't stop Deoxys from ripping his head off with either it's many tentacles, it's duplicates or it's psychic powers.

Depending on if it even buffs speed ofc and also he doesn't lead with this either so it's in the same boat as deoxys using mind manip...

Okay so it's a mute point then, since Deoxys does start with it's psychic abilities.

---

This will be my last reply.

You're clearly not capable of engaging with the argument and the fact you're spouting unironic pseudoscience and claiming it's real both disgusts and disturbs me.

 

[MochOath]

Deoxys is an alien space virus mutated by a laser beam.
Im 95% sure it doesnt even have cells.

This will be my last reply.

You're clearly not capable of engaging with the argument and the fact you're spouting unironic pseudoscience and claiming it's real both disgusts and disturbs me.

VS battles never have been and never will be this serious

 

[MochOath]

Some of yall need to step outside and see the sky or smth

 

[Delusionaltx2]

Acupuncture and Chi meridians are not the same. Dude. ANY research would show you this.

Accuncture relies on chi meridians...you have them then it works

Also the only thing your soruce says is that it's a concept from chinese medicine which means it's just tied to it not that chinese medicine literally makes it

Another thing is that pseudoscience by definition just means it can't be explained scientifically; that doesn't just magically make it not exist

They do not exist in real life, so there is no real life standard you can pull on to force them onto Deoxys.

Yes they do they just can't be explained scientifically

there are multiple sources already confirming that they do

Acupuncture is not Chi meridians. Meridians do. Not. Exist.

Once again yes they do they just can't be explained scientifically

No it doesn't, because you're intentionally switching the proof before presenting it:

No I am not?

1. Meridians don't exist

Yes they do

Acupuncture: Effectiveness and Safety

Information about acupuncture, including its safety and effectiveness in treating pain and other conditions.

www.nccih.nih.gov

Acupuncture - Mayo Clinic

www.mayoclinic.org

Acupuncture

Acupuncture is a traditional Chinese method used to relieve some health conditions and symptoms, such as pain. Learn more about this technique.

my.clevelandclinic.org

There are even youtube videos about people researching it

2. Show proof for Acupuncture

Refer to above and my previous sources

3. Doesn't prove the existence of Meridians.

Huh? So people reseaching this IRL and explaining it's benifits which by the way implies that it can be used IRL somehow dosen't prove it exists????

Deoxys doesn't process energy. It doesn't consume anything. It doesn't take anything in as a requirement to survive.

It still uses and/or exerts energy if it didn't it literally wouldn't even be able to have an AP value or even move for that matter let alone attack unless it's using a distant energy source that isn't connected to it in a way mori can interact with

Everything above is the requirement for what is classified as "alive", as all Living things share all these traits.

Deoxys shares most of these traits therefore is still mostly living along with the fact that the traits it doesn't share don't even tie into accunpture

Go back and read my point properly.

I did and the logic behind it still dosen't make sense

It doesn't have human anatomy. Hello?

Once again for the umptith time...as long as it at least has an anatomy/structure that Mori can process, then it works...nobody is saying it's 1:1 with human anatomy the points above even specify that it just needs A structure

Everything that exists has the abstract idea of "structure" but that's not what we're talking about.

This is exactly what we're talking about...are you even following?

This is obfuscation, a post-hoc escape hatch to try and re-define the debate.

Not really? If mori can comprehend the abstract idea of its structure to the point where he knows where to hit and how then it works.

Not one is denying that Deoxys has structure in the most literal, abstract sense that it exists. We are arguing that it does not have HUMAN structure, things which make up the HUMAN body.

We??? YOUR the one arguing for it not having a human body

I'm saying that it dosen't matter if its human or not if mori can still comprehend whatever structure it has then it works...THATS what i'm arguing for

When you do not have these things, application of HUMAN structure does not apply.

Thats only partially true depending on the exact specifics

in deoxys case yes it dosen't have blood or organs but it's body is still humanoid so it at least mimics a decent bit of these aspects to some degree therefore mori who has experience applying his knowledge of human anatomy to completely new scenerios would just adapt

No it's not.

yes it is

How would that stop Deoxys from removing his head???

Mori uses LS to resist the pull of Deoxys's teklekinesis

Said pull is 31.5x weaker than him in LS

YES. OH MY GOD YES.

HUMANS NEED ORGANS, BLOOD AND NERVES. HAVE YOU EVER TAKEN A BIOLOGY CLASS????

Cool so that you're argument then

ok so can we go back to the part where I said as long as deoxys has a structure that mori can follow then he can use acupuncture? or the part where I said you had to prove deoxys is so anatomically different from a human that it dosen't work which proving it simply dosen't have internal organs isn't enough to do since as i've already pointed out...it's body can and seemingly does still mimic other human attributes making it not completely inapplicable...

Do you realise, the core, unlike Deoxys, is a rock.

You do also realize the core has a fixed shape and structure

Which don't have Chi meridians in Traditional Chinese Medicine.

Deoxys still uses energy through this rock, if it didn't it wouldn't be able to fly or move therefore it has pathways in which it harnessess this energy and therefore it has meridians

Your argument is so absurd and so bad that you're in effect arguing the entire human body is muscle.

no i'm arguing that deoxys needs evidence to suggest it's body is COMPLETELY inapplicable to a human

you're points only prove deoxys is PARTIALLY inapplicable to a human

Are you aware there's animals in the animal kingdom that move without muscle tissue? Did you do any research before acting like you are the arbiter of the Animal Kingdom and all Biology?

Said animals still have subsitutes to use in place of muscles which just supports my argument...again are you even following?

Your cornea, lens and retina do not have muscle tissue in them. Oh my god.

The cornea literally is a tissue just like how muscles are, making it similar structurally since tissue is also made from cells just being bundled together. Muscles are just a form of tissue

lens and retina are also tissue which just makes it simmilar structurally as well

And the brain has NO muscle tissue. You are just factually, objectively wrong.

Yet it still does have other forms of tissue which just like muscles are also made from cells just being grouped together

all this literally proves is that deoxys has some other form of tissue which is what i've been pointing the possibility of this entire time

Not all cells are Muscle cells.

Yet all muscles and any tissue in general is made from cells

Your false generalisation isn't flying here and I'm not repeating myself a fourth time to your debunked point.

You've basically been committing to an argument from ignorance this entire time

No, see my previous posts.

Reffer to my previous posts

You don't get to insert your contradictory head canon into a debate because you want it to or because it's fiction.

I've presented multiple sources and explained why you're one definition dosen't even prove you're stance because you are misinterpreting the very definition of pseudoscience

I am so glad you are not a biologist or on any credible scientific board because the way you failed with your own logic and then dropped it to go with a Mott and Bailey position is legendary.

What does this even have to do with the thread?

5 pronged star fish can be visually assigned legs, arms and the top leg being a head.

Your entire argument is based on visually Deoxys looks Humanoid. Your visual argument is that poor.

To be visually humanoid, it literally still has to be structured in a way that at least mimics humans to some extent

It dosen't have to be 1:1 but at least somewhat simmilar

NO.

OH MY GOD.

IF YOU TRIED HUMAN PRESSURE POINTS ON A STAR FISH, IT WOULD FAIL. BECAUSE LOOKING LIKE SOMETHING DOESN'T MEAN IT IS LIKE IT.

You literally just said starfish have the exact same anatomy that humans do...human anatomy is vulnerable to pressure points therefore if starfish also have human anatomy they would also be vulnerable making this a bad analogy

And just so happened to win in a landslide.

This is ticking all the boxes for me.

If you disagree with his AD then debate with goh supporters

Because skill doesn't negate everything Deoxys has???

Doesn't stop Deoxys from ripping his head off with either it's many tentacles, it's duplicates or it's psychic powers.

- LS prevents this from happening

- ANPR means mori would literally just be predicting it's attacks the entire time and reading him like a book so duplicates isn't that much of an issue

Deoxys has alot more stuff with its psychic powers but telekinsis alone is useless here

Okay so it's a mute point then, since Deoxys does start with it's psychic abilities.

like what??? It has a f*** ton of them????

Is it telekinisis? Is it forcefield creation? Is it mind reading?

Will it use future sight to setup a suprise attack? Will it use calm mind or something to boost itself? Will it use mirror coat try and reflect mori's attacks?

All of this falls under something it can do with it's psychic abilities. Please be more specific

 

[Delusionaltx2]

Deoxys is an alien space virus mutated by a laser beam.
Im 95% sure it doesnt even have cells.

Leafgreen confirms it has cells actually by virtue of having a cellular structure

"When it changes form, an aurora appears. It absorbs attacks by altering its cellular structure."

Also, regarding it being an alien space virus, while I'm not denying that, is there anything suggesting this virus doesn't have any form of tissue? because without evidence then based on what we have so far we kinda would

Is there also anything suggesting deoxys just dosen't physically use or harness the energy it uses to launch it's attacks? Is the energy for example from a distant power source that isn't a part of deoxys or it's core for example?

Regarding the discussion though, mori just AD's to make up for the stat gap anyway

 

[Udlmaster]

Reading through the response, it only affirms all my previous points and cements my not responding as there's nothing new and it's pseudoscientific drivel mixed in with some woeful misunderstanding of biology and logic.

 

[MochOath]

Leafgreen confirms it has cells actually by virtue of having a cellular structure

"When it changes form, an aurora appears. It absorbs attacks by altering its cellular structure."

Also, regarding it being an alien space virus, while I'm not denying that, is there anything suggesting this virus doesn't have any form of tissue? because without evidence then based on what we have so far we kinda would

Being a virus and having a cellular structure/tissue (organized groups of cells) is wierdly contradictory, but its in the pokedex so idk.

Also if deoxys can freely alter its cellular structure and shapeshift, why does any of this accupuncture discussion even matter?

Deoxys just unmanipulates its biology even if Mori can manipulate it

 

[Delusionaltx2]

Reading through the response, it only affirms all my previous points and cements my not responding as there's nothing new and it's pseudoscientific drivel mixed in with some woeful misunderstanding of biology and logic.

ok so you're just going to ignore my previous points and not explain how IRL studies from multiple different sources confirm that acupunture DOES exist IRL and just move on...ok then

Can you at least say what deoxys starts with and move from there?

 

[Delusionaltx2]

Being a virus and having a cellular structure/tissue (organized groups of cells) is wierdly contradictory, but its in the pokedex so idk.

Also if deoxys can freely alter its cellular structure and shapeshift, why does any of this accupuncture discussion even matter?

The original intent was to have mori use accupunture to harm it while using skill to try and dodge it's attacks and have the thread discuss weither or not mori has answers to all of deoxys's long list of hax

alternatively if accupunture didn't work then amping himself with JA or just through AD would also be an option (that seems to be the case considering the fact that deoxys can eventually use iron defense to just mask it's physical weaknesses)

Deoxys just unmanipulates its biology even if Mori can manipulate it

As already mentioned mori can figure out weaknesses from a glance so if he changes it then he just looks at it and creates a fighting style to handle the new one

 

[Udlmaster]

ok so you're just going to ignore my previous points and not explain how IRL studies from multiple different sources confirm that acupunture DOES exist IRL and just move on...ok then

Can you at least say what deoxys starts with and move from there?

Again showing that you both do not have an understanding of what you're talking about while also refusing to engage with what I have to say in any good faith.

You are not reading what I am writing, you are talking past me, which is why you keep speaking of things I have already addressed and continue to go in circles.

You should educate yourself on the topic before acting as an authority, especially when spouting both Pseudoscience and being unable to distinguish between two different practices (Acupuncture & Qi Meridians)

 

[Delusionaltx2]

Again showing that you both do not have an understanding of what you're talking about while also refusing to engage with what I have to say in any good faith.

You are not reading what I am writing, you are talking past me, which is why you keep speaking of things I have already addressed and continue to go in circles.

No i'm not i'm explained the problems that come with the logic of your arguments using legitimate sources please stop reffering to this if you refuse to actually answer this point

You should educate yourself on the topic before acting as an authority, especially when spouting both Pseudoscience and being unable to distinguish between two different practices (Acupuncture & Qi Meridians)

Ah, yes, the like 6 or 7 sources that I sent explaining how acupuncture exists IRL isn't good enough, and bringing up the literal definition of pseudoscience from Merriam-Webster also isn't good enough (or do you want multiple other sources for that too?)

Can we just move past this point and get to what deoxys actually leads with? It has a TON of abilities to choose from so I expect we at least discuss that

 

[Udlmaster]

No i'm not i'm explained the problems that come with the logic of your arguments using legitimate sources please stop reffering to this if you refuse to actually answer this point

I did refute the point, you are incapable of engaging with it.

Ah, yes, the like 6 or 7 sources that I sent explaining how acupuncture exists IRL isn't good enough, and bringing up the literal definition of pseudoscience from Merriam-Webster also isn't good enough (or do you want multiple other sources for that too?)

Acupuncture and Chi meridians are not the same. Dude. ANY research would show you this.

Again, simply not able to engage with what I'm saying. You are simply living up to your name.

 

[DavidTPPM]

All this acupuncture yap when Mori just sticks his staff up Deoxys' bum and expands him into shreds.

 

[Delusionaltx2]

I did refute the point, you are incapable of engaging with it.

yes cause you said so...

Again, simply not able to engage with what I'm saying. You are simply living up to your name.

The entire username revolves around ken carson so uhh...Idk what your trying to do with that

How does insulting my username even contribute to the thread anyway? Isn't that just an ad hominem?

 

[Delusionaltx2]

All this acupuncture yap when Mori just sticks his staff up Deoxys' bum and expands him into shreds.

And we would actually have arguments if udl here decided to just tell us what deoxys leads with...or is at least most prone to using

"it uses its psychic powers!" please look at it's movepool for generation 3 to generation 9 and look at how many of these abilities have the psychic type then tell me how specific "it uses it's psychic powers!" is.

 

[DavidTPPM]

And we would actually have arguments if udl here decided to just tell us what deoxys leads with...or is at least most prone to using

"it uses its psychic powers!" please look at it's movepool for generation 3 to generation 9 and look at how many of these abilities have the psychic type then tell me how specific "it uses it's psychic powers!" is.

Do we at least know if the anime is canon so I can just go watch a fight with Deoxys?

 

[Steve1775]

All this acupuncture yap when Mori just sticks his staff up Deoxys' bum and expands him into shreds.

Technically Deoxys doesn't have an ass

 

[Delusionaltx2]

Do we at least know if the anime is canon so I can just go watch a fight with Deoxys?

I'm pretty sure everything in pokemon is a form of cannon (primary cannon, secondary cannon, and so on) so i believe so

 

[OrangeFR]

And we would actually have arguments if udl here decided to just tell us what deoxys leads with...or is at least most prone to using

"it uses its psychic powers!" please look at it's movepool for generation 3 to generation 9 and look at how many of these abilities have the psychic type then tell me how specific "it uses it's psychic powers!" is.

Probably Psycho boost or some other attacking move.

 

[Delusionaltx2]

Probably Psycho boost or some other attacking move.

In that case i'm pretty sure mori should be fine as far as leads go

Anyways reffering to davids options are any options stoping him from getting splattered by yeoi (I feel like he should have a decent amount of options to work with here like teleportation but i'm mainly focused on what poke supps/ people that are more knowledgable have to say abt it)

 

[Steve1775]

Okay but really, deoxys options are really mid. TK probs get negged, any ranged options can probably be dodged due to skill gap, Teleportation is gonna be annoying but can be sort of easy to work around with. Maaan just use Mewtwo or any other cooler legendary

 

[Delusionaltx2]

Okay but really, deoxys options are really mid. TK probs get negged, any ranged options can probably be dodged due to skill gap, Teleportation is gonna be annoying but can be sort of easy to work around with. Maaan just use Mewtwo or any other cooler legendary

nuh uh...deoxys has one thread to his name while mewtwo has two so I want it to be even

Jokes aside wouldn't mewtwo just lead with mind hax immedietely?

 

[Steve1775]

nuh uh...deoxys has one thread to his name while mewtwo has two so I want it to be even

Jokes aside wouldn't mewtwo just lead with mind hax immedietely?

Yeah, but he's fighting against a skill god so it evens it out

 

[Delusionaltx2]

Yeah, but he's fighting against a skill god so it evens it out

Mori's level of skill dosen't just eliminate the fact that mewtwo could genuenly just hit him with thought based mind hax

 

[DavidTPPM]

nuh uh...deoxys has one thread to his name while mewtwo has two so I want it to be even

Jokes aside wouldn't mewtwo just lead with mind hax immedietely?

Honestly mind hax might not affect Mori due to how the mind works in GoH

 

[MochOath]

what do you guys think mori's "ability" equivalent would be?