The biggest Deltarune CRT in history: Chapters 3 & 4 Tiering, LS and Speed Upgrades

[StrymULTRA]

Can we make the 4-A stuff a separate discussion?

We already did that here, you're the one who did not bother to talk about it.

Besides rn is pretty late here, I'll work on the new profiles (Jackenstein, Miss Mizzle and Sound of Justice) in these days then apply the CRT.

 

[Eden_Warlock99]

Besides rn is pretty late here, I'll work on the new profiles (Jackenstein, Miss Mizzle and Sound of Justice) in these days then apply the CRT.

Sound of Justice's already done.

guh,
started working on a Sound of Justice profile, will prob publish it once the CRT concludes and once the general scaling is decided.

Flowerguy1/DRSoJ

vsbattles.fandom.com

I'll have Miss Mizzle ready by tomorow probs.

 

[Sptflcrw]

I disagree with the multipliers for Spamton NEO and scaling the Titan to the fountain's creation abilities.

Going over the Spamton stuff since that's simpler, this is clearly intended to be comedic and not a serious declaration of power. In this same sentence he says he has twice as much "waterpower" as before. It also doesn't make sense narratively, he says the NEO body makes him a literal god and he intends to use it to forcefully take over the entire Dark World, which obviously wouldn't be possible if it was merely 3x greater than an average citizen.

As for the Titan, there's little reason to suggest it should scale to begin with. Dark Fountains create Dark Worlds through distorting reality and covering it in darkness, not through physical energy. The Titan has never shown the ability to use that kind of reality warping for it's attacks. It's also illogical to just grant it all of the attributes of a Fountain due to their similar physiology, as they're clearly shown to lack certain attributes of the Fountain. For example, range. They obviously don't have the range of a Fountain, otherwise they'd just instantly destroy the Dark World, and the Roaring would be instant with no survivors, but the opposite is stated to be true. If they don't possess all the attributes of a Fountain, then we can't just assign them AP to match the creation power of a Fountain. It's the same reason why nobody is currently rated as 7-B physically despite NEO's reality warping being at that scale. The 7-B, possibly 4-A stat should only apply to the Lighter's creation abilities.

 

[StrymULTRA]

Tbh arguing this now is pointless as it got enough staff support, but I'll answer nontheless.

Going over the Spamton stuff since that's simpler, this is clearly intended to be comedic and not a serious declaration of power. In this same sentence he says he has twice as much "waterpower" as before. It also doesn't make sense narratively, he says the NEO body makes him a literal god and he intends to use it to forcefully take over the entire Dark World, which obviously wouldn't be possible if it was merely 3x greater than an average citizen.

There are verses that explicitly treat a x2 as a one-shot already, x3 makes sense for it to be a total boost. Besides the gap between Lightners and common citizens isn't that big as Berdly calls to aid him Werewires, which wouldn't make sense if the gap is astronomically large.

As for the Titan, there's little reason to suggest it should scale to begin with. Dark Fountains create Dark Worlds through distorting reality and covering it in darkness, not through physical energy.

Reality Warping is still tierable though.

The Titan has never shown the ability to use that kind of reality warping for it's attacks.

Not needed, simply sustaining the thing to the point that it instantly vanishes upon disappearance is enough.

They obviously don't have the range of a Fountain, otherwise they'd just instantly destroy the Dark World, and the Roaring would be instant with no survivors, but the opposite is stated to be true.

Why does that matter lol?

If they don't possess all the attributes of a Fountain, then we can't just assign them AP to match the creation power of a Fountain. It's the same reason why nobody is currently rated as 7-B physically despite NEO's reality warping being at that scale. The 7-B, possibly 4-A stat should only apply to the Lighter's creation abilities.

Ralsei literally was proven right that the Titans are basically Fountains though. Even then, Spamton NEO is different as the thing he uses to create the city is not clear or explained, the Titan has much more context.

I'll have Miss Mizzle ready by tomorow probs.

That SoJ profile needs some clean-ups. Though I'll try to work on Jackenstein in these days when I'm free.

 

[Sptflcrw]

Tbh arguing this now is pointless as it got enough staff support, but I'll answer nontheless.

I only see two staff members who have agreed with the tier 4 stuff. Not like that's the end all be all either.

There are verses that explicitly treat a x2 as a one-shot already, x3 makes sense for it to be a total boost. Besides the gap between Lightners and common citizens isn't that big as Berdly calls to aid him Werewires, which wouldn't make sense if the gap is astronomically large.

Except it's clearly not a one shot gap, lol. You can't simultaneously argue that you can fight relatively and pitch in against a 3x stronger opponent, but then also argue that a 3x gap is enough to let you solo an entire city. Those are contradictory positions. Again, the only thing that even slightly implies this "3x multiplier" is an obviously comedic line. Are we gonna add water manipulation to Spamton's profile since he says he has twice the waterpower he used to? Might as well if we're gonna take obviously comedic stuff hyper literally.

Reality Warping is still tierable though.

I never said it wasn't tierable, I said nothing suggests it scales to their physicals, or that the Titan even possesses said reality warping.

Not needed, simply sustaining the thing to the point that it instantly vanishes upon disappearance is enough.

The Titan doesn't sustain anything. The Fountain does, and the Titan lacks many attributes that the Fountain has, such as range and reality warping. If it lacks these basic qualities, why should we assume it has AP comparable to the fountain's ability to sustain and create Dark Worlds?

Why does that matter lol?

It matters because it demonstrates that the Titans lack many attributes that Fountains have, so you can't just say the Titan scales to the fountain's creation and sustaining abilities.

Ralsei literally was proven right that the Titans are basically Fountains though. Even then, Spamton NEO is different as the thing he uses to create the city is not clear or explained, the Titan has much more context.

They're similar in some ways, but they obviously are not fountains, and they lack many attributes of the fountains, as I just went over. It's actually pretty much the exact same thing with NEO. There's a lack of evidence to scale the reality warping to physical strength in both cases, except in this case the Titan isn't even the one performing the feat. We don't have any evidence to say that the fountain's creation hax = Titan AP.

 

[StrymULTRA]

I only see two staff members who have agreed with the tier 4 stuff. Not like that's the end all be all either.

• The review and approval of content revisions that affect Tier 1 and/or Tier 0 ratings or that are highly controversial should preferably be conducted by a larger number of staff members in order to ensure that all relevant parties are aware of and agree with the proposed changes. It is essential that these revisions are evaluated by staff members who possess a reasonable level of genuine understanding and expertise in these areas in order to maintain the accuracy and quality of the revised material.

I thought that it would be enough more only in the case of Tier 2 and above stuff, looks like I was wrong. Fine then, I'll call some more people.

Except it's clearly not a one shot gap, lol. You can't simultaneously argue that you can fight relatively and pitch in against a 3x stronger opponent, but then also argue that a 3x gap is enough to let you solo an entire city. Those are contradictory positions. Again, the only thing that even slightly implies this "3x multiplier" is an obviously comedic line. Are we gonna add water manipulation to Spamton's profile since he says he has twice the waterpower he used to? Might as well if we're gonna take obviously comedic stuff hyper literally.

I have never said that x3 is enough for a one-shot in Deltarune, I just made an example on how verses treat multipliers differently. I didn't say that a x3 is a one-shot gap in Deltarune.

Besides, while it's "comedic", you're the one who takes stuff too literally. Spamton does not have Fire Manipulation right because firepower is not related to that, so waterpower should mean something else as well. And right now both forms of Spamton are scaled to Kris, this CRT is trying to give an actual gap between them as nothing really contradicts Spamton being x3 weaker than his NEO self besides vibes.

I never said it wasn't tierable, I said nothing suggests it scales to their physicals, or that the Titan even possesses said reality warping.


The Titan doesn't sustain anything. The Fountain does, and the Titan lacks many attributes that the Fountain has, such as range and reality warping. If it lacks these basic qualities, why should we assume it has AP comparable to the fountain's ability to sustain and create Dark Worlds?


It matters because it demonstrates that the Titans lack many attributes that Fountains have, so you can't just say the Titan scales to the fountain's creation and sustaining abilities.


They're similar in some ways, but they obviously are not fountains, and they lack many attributes of the fountains, as I just went over. It's actually pretty much the exact same thing with NEO. There's a lack of evidence to scale the reality warping to physical strength in both cases, except in this case the Titan isn't even the one performing the feat. We don't have any evidence to say that the fountain's creation hax = Titan AP.

This is just a standard you made up, as the page for sustenance feats nowhere mentions that the character must have Reality Warping.

There is nothing saying that a Titan "lacks attributes" of a Fountain, they're created the same, they're sealed the same, and Ralsei directly equates the two to then being proven right. It's just that simple, you're overcomplicating this.

 

[Sptflcrw]

Besides, while it's "comedic", you're the one who takes stuff too literally. Spamton does not have Fire Manipulation right because firepower is not related to that, so waterpower should mean something else as well. And right now both forms of Spamton are scaled to Kris, this CRT is trying to give an actual gap between them as nothing really contradicts Spamton being x3 weaker than his NEO self besides vibes.

Come on now. What are you even suggesting? What else could waterpower mean in this context? It is very obviously intended to be a comedic line, contrasting the previous line about firepower. I'm aware both forms currently scale to Kris, that's not a problem. The issue is that the 3x multiplier isn't supported.

This is just a standard you made up, as the page for sustenance feats nowhere mentions that the character must have Reality Warping.

I never said you had to have reality warping to sustain something. I said the Titan doesn't sustain anything at all. The fountain does.

There is nothing saying that a Titan "lacks attributes" of a Fountain, they're created the same, they're sealed the same, and Ralsei directly equates the two to then being proven right. It's just that simple, you're overcomplicating this

This isn't a rebuttal to anything I said earlier. They very obviously do lack attributes, and I gave examples. They lack the range (As shown by their destruction of Dark Worlds being accomplished overtime and not instantly), and they lack the reality warping properties of the fountains, which is what creates and sustains the fountains to begin with. Just because they have similarities does not mean they possess all of the same abilities, as I just proved.

 

[StrymULTRA]

Come on now. What are you even suggesting? What else could waterpower mean in this context? It is very obviously intended to be a comedic line, contrasting the previous line about firepower. I'm aware both forms currently scale to Kris, that's not a problem.

Waterpower could for example mean cooling or other hydraulic processes, given that Spamton NEO is still a robot after all.

The issue is that the 3x multiplier isn't supported.

You yourself have said that Spamton NEO planned to be strong enough to solo the city. And even then, Spamton wanted the NEO body to become the strongest ever, to even surpass Jevil, who beat his ass so hard that Spamton has still traumas about it.

x3 perfectly works fine, as such a gap is indeed indicative of superiority, but also allows weaker people to still harm you to a degree.

I never said you had to have reality warping to sustain something. I said the Titan doesn't sustain anything at all. The fountain does.

Because there was already a Dark Fountain and the Titan was added in an already existing Dark World?

They lack the range (As shown by their destruction of Dark Worlds being accomplished overtime and not instantly), and they lack the reality warping properties of the fountains, which is what creates and sustains the fountains to begin with. Just because they have similarities does not mean they possess all of the same abilities, as I just proved.

By how Ralsei is talking about it in both Ch 1 and Ch 2, he's clearly talking about the Light World, not just a Dark World.

Even then, it's not needed that the Titan showcases any Reality Warping or sustenance thing, as there was already a Dark Fountain there doing it, the Titan was just an additional one.

 

[Pegasus124467]

I never said you had to have reality warping to sustain something. I said the Titan doesn't sustain anything at all. The fountain does.

Why should a Titan sustain something? Ralsei himself calls it a mindless being that only can destroy. Plus, there was already a preexisting Dark World as the above comment states.

 

[Sptflcrw]

Waterpower could for example mean cooling or other hydraulic processes, given that Spamton NEO is still a robot after all.

Why would base Spamton have cooling and hydraulic processes, lmfao

You yourself have said that Spamton NEO planned to be strong enough to solo the city. And even then, Spamton wanted the NEO body to become the strongest ever, to even surpass Jevil, who beat his ass so hard that Spamton has still traumas about it.

x3 perfectly works fine, as such a gap is indeed indicative of superiority, but also allows weaker people to still harm you to a degree.

I never said there isn't a gap. I said there is nothing that supports a 3x gap specifically, besides an obvious joke line. The gap is unquantifiable.

Because there was already a Dark Fountain and the Titan was added in an already existing Dark World?

OK? What's your point? The Titan still is not the one sustaining the dark world either way.

By how Ralsei is talking about it in both Ch 1 and Ch 2, he's clearly talking about the Light World, not just a Dark World.

Even then, it's not needed that the Titan showcases any Reality Warping or sustenance thing, as there was already a Dark Fountain there doing it, the Titan was just an additional one

It doesn't matter. The Titans goal and sole purpose and destruction if it had MSS level AP and range, it would've just instantly destroyed the entire Dark World. The roaring is implied to be overtime, and it's stated there'd be surviving Lighter's and Darkner's. That would not happen if the Titan had MSS level range. Thus, the Titan doesn't possess the range of a fountain. It's not that it isn't showcased, it's that it doesn't have it. And if it lacks the range and it lacks the hax, why should it get the AP that is based off of hax?

 

[Sptflcrw]

Why should a Titan sustain something? Ralsei himself calls it a mindless being that only can destroy. Plus, there was already a preexisting Dark World as the above comment states.

Not relevant. Why should we believe it has the power to sustain a Dark World?

 

[StrymULTRA]

Why would base Spamton have cooling and hydraulic processes, lmfao

Never said he has, just some possibilities. After all, if Firepower is not a literal meaning for him having fire, Waterpower must mean something else too.

I never said there isn't a gap. I said there is nothing that supports a 3x gap specifically, besides an obvious joke line. The gap is unquantifiable.

"Obvious joke line" that was not proven wrong though.

OK? What's your point? The Titan still is not the one sustaining the dark world either way.

It still is the same as Dark Fountain because of it being created and then sealed like one. Stop repeating yourself.

It doesn't matter. The Titans goal and sole purpose and destruction if it had MSS level AP and range, it would've just instantly destroyed the entire Dark World. The roaring is implied to be overtime, and it's stated there'd be surviving Lighter's and Darkner's. That would not happen if the Titan had MSS level range. Thus, the Titan doesn't possess the range of a fountain. It's not that it isn't showcased, it's that it doesn't have it. And if it lacks the range and it lacks the hax, why should it get the AP that is based off of hax?

This is such a typical AoE Fallacy it's funny. NOWHERE in ths Sustenance feats page it's even said that every attack of theirs must have the range thing you're speaking, you're making up standards again.

Not relevant. Why should we believe it has the power to sustain a Dark World?

Because Dark Fountains upon sealing instantly revert the DW to its original LW self?

 

[Psychomaster35]

Never knew I'd thought I'd see someone who hasn't been active since 2019 randomly show up out of nowhere...

So, when is this being applied?

 

[LittleGuy99]

Never knew I'd thought I'd see someone who hasn't been active since 2019 randomly show up out of nowhere...

So, when is this being applied?

Hey, do you think "Possibly 4-A" is controversial and still needs one more vote?
Strym says yes, but I'm not sure
2 votes in agree and 1 neutral, none in disagree

 

[Sptflcrw]

Never said he has, just some possibilities. After all, if Firepower is not a literal meaning for him having fire, Waterpower must mean something else too.

Or, much more likely, it's not intended to be taken seriously. Hell, why are you assuming it isn't literal fire? He apparently has literal water, if we take the statement literally, which is obviously not intended.

This is such a typical AoE Fallacy it's funny. NOWHERE in ths Sustenance feats page it's even said that every attack of theirs must have the range thing you're speaking, you're making up standards again.

No it's not? AoE and destructive potency are just AP + range. If the Titan had both, it would destroy the Dark World instantly, considering that is it's entire purpose for existence, just like the fountain created it instantly. Again, the Titan doesn't sustain anything. The fountain actually  does have MSS level range, unlike the Titan.

Because Dark Fountains upon sealing instantly revert the DW to its original LW self?

The Titan is not a dark fountain. Please stop repeating yourself.

 

[StrymULTRA]

Never knew I'd thought I'd see someone who hasn't been active since 2019 randomly show up out of nowhere...

So, when is this being applied?

• The review and approval of content revisions that affect Tier 1 and/or Tier 0 ratings or that are highly controversial should preferably be conducted by a larger number of staff members in order to ensure that all relevant parties are aware of and agree with the proposed changes. It is essential that these revisions are evaluated by staff members who possess a reasonable level of genuine understanding and expertise in these areas in order to maintain the accuracy and quality of the revised material.

I thought that it would be enough more only in the case of Tier 2 and above stuff, looks like I was wrong. Fine then, I'll call some more people.

I mean do you not think 8-A from 4-A is not a controversial thing? :V

Or, much more likely, it's not intended to be taken seriously. Hell, why are you assuming it isn't literal fire? He apparently has literal water, if we take the statement literally, which is obviously not intended.

Who the **** even said Spamton has literal fire? Firepower is not about literally having fire-related powers lmao. Why are you insisting on this?

No it's not? AoE and destructive potency are just AP + range. If the Titan had both, it would destroy the Dark World instantly, considering that is it's entire purpose for existence, just like the fountain created it instantly. Again, the Titan doesn't sustain anything. The fountain actually  does have MSS level range, unlike the Titan.

You do realize that it's not required to destroy everything in the cosmology to prove yourself to be X tier even if you're a mindless beast, right?

Kid Buu from DB Toei is 2-C yet is noted to destroy galaxies overtime, despite the fact that its entire purpose is to be a being made of pure evil whose entire purpose is destroying everything on-sight (familiar isn't it?). It's not something needed on this wiki like you're claiming.

The Titan is not a dark fountain. Please stop repeating yourself.

I proved it being the case, you're stonewalling by just saying "it's not because I say so".

 

[Sptflcrw]

Who the **** even said Spamton has literal fire? Firepower is not about literally having fire-related powers lmao. Why are you insisting on this?

If he has literal water powers then why would the previous line not mean he has literal fire powers? Both are equally ridiculous. The line is obviously intended to be comedic. You aren't supposed to read that Spamton has three times the firepower and twice the waterpower and interpret that as a power multiplier, lmao.

You do realize that it's not required to destroy everything in the cosmology to prove yourself to be X tier even if you're a mindless beast, right?

Kid Buu from DB Toei is 2-C yet is noted to destroy galaxies overtime, despite the fact that its entire purpose is to be a being made of pure evil whose entire purpose is destroying everything on-sight (familiar isn't it)? It's not something needed on this wiki like you're claiming.

Not a great example. Kid Buu doesn't have 2-C range and AoE with his basic attacks, only with certain techniques. If he DID have 2-C range and immediately tried to destroy as much as possible, and failed to do so, then yes, that'd be a massive anti-feat.

I proved it being the case, you're stonewalling by just saying "it's not because I say so".

You're being disingenuous. You proved they are similar, and are created and sealed in the same way. That doesn't mean they both have all of the same properties. The Titan lacks both the fountain's range and reality warping.

 

[StrymULTRA]

If he has literal water powers then why would the previous line not mean he has literal fire powers? Both are equally ridiculous. The line is obviously intended to be comedic. You aren't supposed to read that Spamton has three times the firepower and twice the waterpower and interpret that as a power multiplier, lmao.

You're literally putting words in my mouth to the point I don't think you're being honest anymore.

I have never said Spamton has water powers, not once in this thread. Firepower's definition is just the amount of power one can dish out or the amount of weaporny an army has at disposal, but Spamton's context heavily hints at the former.

Not a great example. Kid Buu doesn't have 2-C range and AoE with his basic attacks, only with certain techniques. If he DID have 2-C range and immediately tried to destroy as much as possible, and failed to do so, then yes, that'd be a massive anti-feat.

Ki is pretty much supposed to scale to everything, including range, yeah.

But regardless, it's not an anti-feat, it's in fact just AoE fallacy as if a character destroys everything on-sight despite being cosmic tiers, the story won't continue (cough 2-C DBS Broly not destroying the Earth despite being a berserk with no ki control cough).

That doesn't mean they both have all of the same properties.

Says who?

The Titan lacks both the fountain's range and reality warping.

Not required from the stabilization feats, again.

 

[LittleGuy99]

I counted all the votes for "Possibly 4-A" just for fun, including the staff, result:
Agree: 15
Disagree: 6
Neutral: 2

 

[Sptflcrw]

You're literally putting words in my mouth to the point I don't think you're being honest anymore.

I have never said Spamton has water powers, not once in this thread. Firepower's definition is just the amount of power one can dish out or the amount of weaporny an army has at disposal, but Spamton's context heavily hints at the former.

Then what is "waterpower" referring to? Please give me an actual answer. No, the context would imply LITERAL fire if anything given that he immediately compares it to his "waterpower." Again, it's just a joke.

Ki is pretty much supposed to scale to everything, including range, yeah.

But regardless, it's not an anti-feat, it's in fact just AoE fallacy as if a character destroys everything on-sight despite being cosmic tiers, the story won't continue (cough 2-C DBS Broly not destroying the Earth despite being a berserk with no ki control cough).

That's not what's on the profiles. It's only with the Vice Shout, and SSJ3 Goku and upwards being able to shake and distort universal spaces. Nothing about busting the whole cosmology in one AoE blast until DBS. Broly wasn't attempting to destroy the entire macrocosm. If he was, and he failed, then that'd be an anti-feat. I'm not gonna continue debating Dragon Ball here since I don't want to get off topic.

Says who?

The fact that it lacks the range and reality warping.

Not required from the stabilization feats, again.

What stabilization feats? The Titan doesn't stabilize or sustain anything.

 

[Edutyn]

I mean do you not think 8-A from 4-A is not a controversial thing? :V

Prepare for H7A Elnina

 

[StrymULTRA]

Then what is "waterpower" referring to? Please give me an actual answer. No, the context would imply LITERAL fire if anything given that he immediately compares it to his "waterpower." Again, it's just a joke.

Where is Spamton using fire attacks then lil bro?

That's not what's on the profiles. It's only with the Vice Shout, and SSJ3 Goku and upwards being able to shake and distort universal spaces. Nothing about busting the whole cosmology in one AoE blast until DBS.

Then we have Super Buu and other people weaker than Buuhan fully 2-C though.

What stabilization feats? The Titan doesn't stabilize or sustain anything.

Ngl you are getting repetitive asf. If you keep spamming the same stuff despite me explaining above, then I cannot do much.

Also yeah Psycho above is right, it's weird how is a guy who was active only in 2019 resurrect just now

 

[Sptflcrw]

Where is Spamton using fire attacks then lil bro?

Probably the same way he uses those water attacks and his Spamton EX form. They're not serious.

Then we have Super Buu and other people weaker than Buuhan fully 2-C though.

What? What are you saying?

Ngl you are getting repetitive asf. If you keep spamming the same stuff despite me explaining above, then I cannot do much.

Also yeah Psycho above is right, it's weird how is a guy who was active only in 2019 resurrect just now

This isn't a rebuttal. If you don't want me to repeat myself, then stop saying the Titan has stabilization feats. It doesn't, you are trying to scale it to something else that does. But again, the Titan lacks many qualities of the fountains, so this is baseless. I don't see how active my account is has to do with anything. I just lurk here now, but I like Deltarune a lot and don't want to see it misrepresented. I'd prefer if you address my arguments, instead of weird speculation about me.

 

[StrymULTRA]

Probably the same way he uses those water attacks and his Spamton EX form. They're not serious.

Except that he does not use any water attack either, and I already adressed the meaning of firepower here.

What? What are you saying?

Yep.

then stop saying the Titan has stabilization feats

Nah, I explained it in OP and refuted you, you're keeping to spam the same stuff like a broken disc.

I'd prefer if you address my arguments, instead of weird speculation about me.

I already did though :#

 

[Sptflcrw]

Except that he does not use any water attack either, and I already adressed the meaning of firepower here.

Yeah, that's my point, lol. That it's a joke. I am rebuking your interpretation of the way firepower is used.

Yep

What are you trying to say right now? What is your argument?

Nah, I explained it in OP and refuted you, you're keeping to spam the same stuff like a broken disc.

Your refutation is that AP doesn't equal DP. But DP is just AP + Range. If the Titan lacks MSS DP, then it has to lack either MSS AP or range, it can't have both. If it lacks one, then that proves it doesn't share all attributes with a fountain. Additionally, the fountain's creation and sustaining feats are done through reality warping, which the Titan wouldn't scale to physically. You haven't addressed any of these counterarguments.

 

[StrymULTRA]

Yeah, that's my point, lol. That it's a joke. I am rebuking your interpretation of the way firepower is used.

Whatever's on your boat lil man. Why would it even be a joke in the 1st place lol.

What are you trying to say right now? What is your argument?

That you don't need to destroy everything on-sight even when bloodlusted/with the intent with destroying everything because that'd be AoE Fallacy. Plus the Majin Buu page I linked shows them being 2-C even with stuff weaker than Vice Shout.

If the Titan lacks MSS DP

Who says it does? You?

Additionally, the fountain's creation and sustaining feats are done through reality warping, which the Titan wouldn't scale to physically. You haven't addressed any of these counterarguments.

Lmao.

 

[Sptflcrw]

Whatever's on your boat lil man. Why would it even be a joke in the 1st place lol.

Are you asking why Spamton saying he has twice as much waterpower as before is meant to be comedic?

That you don't need to destroy everything on-sight even when bloodlusted/with the intent with destroying everything because that'd be AoE Fallacy. Plus the Majin Buu page I linked shows them being 2-C even with stuff weaker than Vice Shout.

Have you read anything I've said? Buu has 2-C Attack Potency. He does NOT have 2-C AoE or range with his basic attacks, only with certain non destructive moves.

Who says it does? You?

It doesn't immediately destroy the whole dark world. The Roaring is implied to take place over a stretch of time and there would be surviving Lighters and Darkners.

Lmao.

W rebuttal. I concede.

 

[StrymULTRA]

Are you asking why Spamton saying he has twice as much waterpower as before is meant to be comedic?

Pretty much lol. The statement has no reason to be taken as comedic or irrelevant, it's supported by other context on why said boost is to be taken literally.

Have you read anything I've said? Buu has 2-C Attack Potency. He does NOT have 2-C AoE or range with his basic attacks, only with certain non destructive moves.

So why is the Titan assumed to be any different lol?

It doesn't immediately destroy the whole dark world.

Who says it has to?

The Roaring is implied to take place over a stretch of time and there would be surviving Lighters and Darkners.

Literally and?

 

[Eden_Warlock99]

Have you read anything I've said? Buu has 2-C Attack Potency. He does NOT have 2-C AoE or range with his basic attacks, only with certain non destructive moves.

It's even accepted that Kid Buu was going to blow up the 3-B sized Grand Kai Planet too lol

 

[Qurbonboev]

The Roaring is implied to take place over a stretch of time and there would be surviving Lighters and Darkners.

Only Darkner that is (maybe) implied to being able survive for long time during Roaring is Ralsei (since he would need to fight alongside Gang after Roaring). And he is not normal Darkner by any means

 

[Sptflcrw]

Pretty much lol. The statement has no reason to be taken as comedic or irrelevant, it's supported by other context on why said boost is to be taken literally.

Then what does waterpower mean? Give me an answer.

So why is the Titan assumed to be any different lol?

I don't feel like you've been reading my replies. The Titan does not have any MSS feats. The fountain does. You are trying to scale it to the fountain on the basis that since they are similar in many aspects, the Titan should scale to all of the fountain's attributes. But the problem is that it doesn't. It lacks several, such as range and hax. With that in mind, why should we scale it to it's AP?

Who says it has to?

That is it's purpose for existence and that's what it's going to do anyway over time. If the Titan could just instantly destroy the whole Dark World, it would.

Literally and?

And that proves it lacks equivalent DP to a fountain's creation hax. If the entire Dark World was instantly destroyed, there'd be no survivors. No Lightner would survive a MSS level AoE attack that engulfed the whole solar system and beyond. Obviously the Titan can't do that.

 

[Sptflcrw]

Only Darkner that is (maybe) implied to being able survive for long time during Roaring is Ralsei (since he would need to fight alongside Gang after Roaring). And he is not normal Darkner by any means

---

Wrong.

 

[Sptflcrw]

It's even accepted that Kid Buu was going to blow up the 3-B sized Grand Kai Planet too lol

OK? 3-B isn't 2-C.

 

[StrymULTRA]

Then what does waterpower mean? Give me an answer.

I already said it, it could mean things like cooling, hydraulic mechanics, or whatever else. We just don't know!

That is it's purpose for existence and that's what it's going to do anyway over time. If the Titan could just instantly destroy the whole Dark World, it would.

Why doesn't every RPG villain destroy the cosmology/planet/whatever whenether they could without waiting for the protagonists, then?

It's extremely typical videogame stuff lol.

Ignoring the rest as it's fluff atp.

 

[Qurbonboev]

---

Wrong.

"Survive for long time". Slowly turning into stone doesn't count as surviving for long time.

That is it's purpose for existence and that's what it's going to do anyway over time. If the Titan could just instantly destroy the whole Dark World, it would.

If Titans purpose is to bring on Roaring, why would it destroy Dark Fountains(things needed for Roaring in first place)?

 

[StrymULTRA]

The Titan also didn't even try to nuke everything in sight the moment it was born, so why is the fact that "he's supposed to nuke the Dark World ASAP" even a point?

It's clearly another case of AoE fallacy here, because if it did that, there wouldn't be a story in the first place.

 

[Sptflcrw]

I already said it, it could mean things like cooling, hydraulic mechanics, or whatever else. We just don't know!

Why would base Spamton have any of these things? We could use this exact same logic to say that firepower refers to random nonsense we never see like a heating system or the temperature of his fire. The numbers aren't even consistent in the japanese version, which Toby oversaw. It's obviously just a throwaway joke line.

Why doesn't every RPG villain destroy the cosmology/planet/whatever whenether they could without waiting for the protagonists, then?

It's extremely typical videogame stuff lol.

Not a valid response. Most villains aren't trying to destroy the entire cosmology. Stop with the whataboutism.

Ignoring the rest as it's fluff atp.

Nah. I'd like an actual response. Why are we trying to scale the Titan's physical power to reality warping that it doesn't have?

 

[Sptflcrw]

"Survive for long time". Slowly turning into stone doesn't count as surviving for long time.

Not attributable to AP. This also happens after their attack on the earth.

If Titans purpose is to bring on Roaring, why would it destroy Dark Fountains(things needed for Roaring in first place)?

Please reread what you are responding to.

 

[Sptflcrw]

The Titan also didn't even try to nuke everything in sight the moment it was born, so why is the fact that "he's supposed to nuke the Dark World ASAP" even a point?

It's clearly another case of AoE fallacy here, because if it did that, there wouldn't be a story in the first place.

It CAN'T nuke the dark world, is my point. If the Titans could instantly destroy everything, they'd do so. The roaring is also pretty clearly stated to take place over time. Why would multiple Titans spend lots of time destroying the earth if they could each individually destroy the entire solar system in seconds? They wouldn't, so they can't. "LOL, plot" is not a response.

 

[StrymULTRA]

Yeah not dealing with this kind of stonewall. Whatever suits ya man, I don't want to flood this thread with pages of back and forth of stuff I already said.