Jujutsu Kaisen Discussion Page #1

[Axxtentacle]

No

Sukuna controls how many slashes cleave does (and here its explicitly cleave as Malevolent shrine attacks things with CE with cleave)

This is with the domain. Cleave isn't the same in the domain, in the domain Dismantle and Cleave are just slashes that spawn on you. Dismantle doesn't fly and Cleave doesn't require contact. Sukuna's intent matters for Dismantle as well, as proven by his first attempt to cut Ryu, so this doesn't prove anything.

The 1 time Yuta uses Cleave, it's also specifically in that pattern.

Anytime a non-domain Cleave is used, it always cuts with the same pattern. Another point for Cleave is that any time we see the Cleave pattern, the cuts do not knock back the opponent. Whereas cuts that do not share this pattern DO knock back the opponent. To claim anytime Sukuna touches somebody he uses Cleave is to completely ignore the different portrayals of the attacks.

Cleave adjusts the power ie raises the normal output, so Cleave>Dismantle, and logically if Sukuna goes for a touch he'd use Cleave

Cleave automatically adjusts it output. This does not mean it has a higher output, just that Sukuna does not need to adjust it himself, like he does with Dismantle. And logically if he says "make contact" then uses a move that isn't obviously Cleave (after point-blank dismantle and Cleave are compared in strength), the conclusion is that they're comparable in strength and it doesn't make much difference. And again, if he was saying he needed Cleave, he'd have said Cleave instead of "make contact".

Gege isn't going to show Cleave 2 different ways in the same chapter. Yuta's cleave has literally no knockback on Sukuna, Sukuna grabs Yuta's head and there's a cut with knockback, and no Cleave visual effects. It is willful ignorance to act as if the portrayal of the attacks doesn't matter.

 

[Axxtentacle]

The manga doesn't state Cleave is only a net of slashes, and I've seen that past threads usually determine the attack that killed Ryu to be Cleave. Just because he uses multiple slashes often doesn't mean the more effortful move is just net slashes (effortful as in Cleave requires contact instead of Dismantling from a distance).

Past threads can be wrong, and if you believe those specific visual effects aren't Cleave, then what proof is there he ever actually uses Cleave? Can't you make the argument that all of these contact-cuts are point-blank Dismantles?

 

[Axxtentacle]

Sukuna not grabbing Ryu's head is also direct proof it can't be Cleave, since Cleave requires Sukuna to grab you and he can't let go or be stopped or else the slashes don't actually happen lmao

 

[Mommyleona]

This is with the domain. Cleave isn't the same in the domain, in the domain Dismantle and Cleave are just slashes that spawn on you.

all headcanon btw. cleave also spawns on people when he touches them.

Anytime a non-domain Cleave is used, it always cuts with the same pattern

that's just nitpicking, nothing ever says cleave has to be a net pattern

 

[Axxtentacle]

all headcanon btw. cleave also spawns on people when he touches them.

...yes, when he touches them lmfao. Dismantle would also spawn on people when he touches them because yk, he could spawn a dismantle onto their body

that's just nitpicking, nothing ever says cleave has to be a net pattern

Then let me ask you what I asked Reyne, what proof is there he's EVER used Cleave outside of his Domain? That's the only time we know Cleave was used on anyone that wasn't Sukuna, since Yuta says "Cleave" when cutting Sukuna. Sukuna never actually says "Cleave", and we know he uses point-blank Dismantles, since he does on Mahoraga. It's not out of character.

Also, his first slash on Ryu was a point-blank Dismantle. Cleave automatically adjusts output, it can't physically be too weak to not kill someone he's capable of 1 shotting.

 

[LIFE_OF_KING]

Leona FRA

 

[Axxtentacle]

god I hate this "the visuals don't actually matter when determining which attack Sukuna is using" argument lmao, if you remove the visuals then there's literally no way to determine if he's using Cleave or point-blank dismantles, it defeats the point of having different visuals when slashes are used

why do you people make this argument it's not even good

 

[LIFE_OF_KING]

He touched -> Cleave
He didn't -> Dismantle

Easy

 

[Bimbitesthedust]

He touched -> Cleave
He didn't -> Dismantle

Easy

Thats literally how it works lmao

anyway what was the argument about?

 

[LIFE_OF_KING]

Thats literally how it works lmao

anyway what was the argument about?

Axx saying some stuff about Sukuna not using Cleave against Maki and Ryu

 

[Bimbitesthedust]

Axx saying some stuff about Sukuna not using Cleave against Maki and Ryu

pretty sure both use Cleave but like both are unique cases

Ryu was simply blitzed and killed with Cleave as Sukuna was holding back before w Shrine but as soon as Sukuna took it seriously it killed him so idk why we are debating on it (I like Ryu but cmon)

Maki Is also a Cleave but like Sukuna was already faltering with output n all since soul stab to heart, pretty damaged by other forms of soul stuff, domain, etc so like I think it is possible for Maki to survive one use of Cleave as long as its like the small instant Sukuna lands it on her

 

[Axxtentacle]

He touched -> Cleave
He didn't -> Dismantle

Easy

he didn't touch ryu lmfao how can you say this and then say he used it on Ryu? and again, we've seen him touch and use Dismantle, so that's irrelevant

Cleave requiring touch doesn't mean whenever he touches he uses Cleave

Sukuna has to full grab you for Cleave, Sukuna's hand is in the same claw position it was when he used the first dismantle when he kills Ryu, and his hand is not on Ryu

 

[Axxtentacle]

I love it when I ignore the inconsistent portrayals of abilities in the same chapters so I don't have to change my mind out of what I already believe, always fun

 

[LIFE_OF_KING]

Bro is writing his own Jujutsu Kaisen

 

[Axxtentacle]

he's reading the hallucinations

 

[Anonymous_Learner]

he's reading the hallucinations

We're all talking about a story where people are fighting things normal people don't see till they're near death.
we're ALL reading the Hallucinations

 

[Axxtentacle]

Bro is writing his own Jujutsu Kaisen

same clawed hand btw

 

[LIFE_OF_KING]

The first panel is Ryu's hand, you can see from the jacket's bracelet lmfao

 

[Axxtentacle]

oh yeah that is Ryu's hand, it's fine, we've seen Sukuna do this before when he killed Orochi anyway

 

[LIFE_OF_KING]

I'm crying

 

[Axxtentacle]

wtf was ryu even tryna do? was bro gonna scratch Sukuna?

 

[LIFE_OF_KING]

Sukuna just used Ryu's jacket for a single panel, trust

 

[Bimbitesthedust]

wtf was ryu even tryna do? was bro gonna scratch Sukuna?

Probably punch him, palm strike or anything since his CT is very simple yet hes the only character to have UES rules so his physicals scale equally to his CT so hitting Sukuna w a punch has equal amounts of power to that of his granite blast

So Ryu went for CQC for a bit, realized that he shouldn't do that, then proceeded to use Granite Blast before dying

 

[Axxtentacle]

Probably punch him, palm strike or anything since his CT is very simple yet hes the only character to have UES rules so his physicals scale equally to his CT so hitting Sukuna w a punch has equal amounts of power to that of his granite blast

So Ryu went for CQC for a bit, realized that he shouldn't do that, then proceeded to use Granite Blast before dying

So you're proposing that Ryu was trying to form a fist and Sukuna dismantled him before he could? That'd make sense. I am aware Ryu's abilities scale equally to his CT, I've had to convince quite a lot of people that's the case on other platforms lmao

 

[AbaddonTheDisappointment]

So you're proposing that Ryu was trying to form a fist and Sukuna dismantled him before he could? That'd make sense. I am aware Ryu's abilities scale equally to his CT, I've had to convince quite a lot of people that's the case on other platforms lmao

Crazy cause there's literally a panel saying that.

 

[Axxtentacle]

Crazy cause there's literally a panel saying that.

I know bruh. "Ishigori is the only sorcerer whose output is the same whether he uses a cursed technique or not" is pretty straightforward lmfao

 

[Rogue_Forge]

Something I've thought about for a while now, but if all the dead shikigami of the ten shadows go into one, then wouldn't Megumi have a totality of all the shikigami that died in one including Mahoraga? or if you can only combine them once, and thus the 4 were used up on agito cant be used, then he could still merge Mahoraga with another shikigami right?

 

[Anonymous_Learner]

Something I've thought about for a while now, but if all the dead shikigami of the ten shadows go into one, then wouldn't Megumi have a totality of all the shikigami that died in one including Mahoraga? or if you can only combine them once, and thus the 4 were used up on agito cant be used, then he could still merge Mahoraga with another shikigami right?

Once maho (tamed) dies, Ten Shadows is unusable

 

[Bimbitesthedust]

So you're proposing that Ryu was trying to form a fist and Sukuna dismantled him before he could? That'd make sense. I am aware Ryu's abilities scale equally to his CT, I've had to convince quite a lot of people that's the case on other platforms lmao

yeah more or less

like Sukunas a whole beast even when he was in 15/16f so its not surprising that Sukuna could blitz someone in Ryu's tier

 

[Gokukid2005]

he didn't touch ryu lmfao how can you say this and then say he used it on Ryu? and again, we've seen him touch and use Dismantle, so that's irrelevant

Brother what?

"It doesn't need to be harder than that, but unless it makes contact and cuts equal to that guy's attack, it'll never deliver a fatal wound.

"If I don't make direct contact, I won't leave a "fatal wound" just as it was with HIM. Although, I wouldn't say they surpass him in toughness."
He says this after hitting them with a barrage of dismantles and watching them survive and heal. What else could this possibly mean?

 

[Reyne]

pretty sure both use Cleave but like both are unique cases

Ryu was simply blitzed and killed with Cleave as Sukuna was holding back before w Shrine but as soon as Sukuna took it seriously it killed him so idk why we are debating on it (I like Ryu but cmon)

Maki Is also a Cleave but like Sukuna was already faltering with output n all since soul stab to heart, pretty damaged by other forms of soul stuff, domain, etc so like I think it is possible for Maki to survive one use of Cleave as long as its like the small instant Sukuna lands it on her

Oh, another thought to add to the "dunno wat hapen" pile. Sukuna could've grabbed her so hard he made her bleed, fired a dismantle then grabbed her, or grabbed her and used cleave. Compounded with the confirmed faltering output, it's a question of why we're so sure of one version of these happenings. If he speed blitzed her, meaning his output came back, did it only lasted long enough to grab her and use his strength to make her bleed, or did it drop when he used cleave?

TL;DR - I am confusion.

 

[Axxtentacle]

Oh, another thought to add to the "dunno wat hapen" pile. Sukuna could've grabbed her so hard he made her bleed, fired a dismantle then grabbed her, or grabbed her and used cleave. Compounded with the confirmed faltering output, it's a question of why we're so sure of one version of these happenings. If he speed blitzed her, meaning his output came back, did it only lasted long enough to grab her and use his strength to make her bleed, or did it drop when he used cleave?

TL;DR - I am confusion.

his output was fluctuating in that fight because of his interest, at this point in time his interest was peaked and stayed so till the black flash

 

[Axxtentacle]

Brother what?

"It doesn't need to be harder than that, but unless it makes contact and cuts equal to that guy's attack, it'll never deliver a fatal wound.

"If I don't make direct contact, I won't leave a "fatal wound" just as it was with HIM. Although, I wouldn't say they surpass him in toughness."
He says this after hitting them with a barrage of dismantles and watching them survive and heal. What else could this possibly mean?

we can physically see he doesn't make physical contact with Ryu when Ryu gets cut, and he leaves lethal wounds on Yuji without directly touching him. I really don't know what else you want. (also, dismantle can spawn farther away from Sukuna, so he doesn't need to literally grab you for it to be a "point-blank dismantle")

 

[Gokukid2005]

Whatever helps you sleep at night man

 

[Gokukid2005]

I've seen some people still use the botched viz translation to say Yuji has better fighting sense/skill than Maki when all the raws say is he is physically superior to her.
Which goes in line with Megumi's statement that Yuji with no ce could beat them all with no ce.

 

[Rogue_Forge]

Once maho (tamed) dies, Ten Shadows is unusable

Uh... no, unless that just doesn't apply do divine dogs because Megumi was still using them in the last chapters

 

[Anonymous_Learner]

Uh... no, unless that just doesn't apply do divine dogs because Megumi was still using them in the last chapters

It's reaffired twice (once by Higuruma, other by Sukuna himself) that Ten shadows is unusable without maho, Megumi's ten shadows still working means he still has mahoraga

 

[Gokukid2005]

Uh... no, unless that just doesn't apply do divine dogs because Megumi was still using them in the last chapters

Sukuna makes a distinction between his usage of ten shadows and Megumi's

 

[Anonymous_Learner]

I've seen some people still use the botched viz translation to say Yuji has better fighting sense/skill than Maki when all the raws say is he is physically superior to her.
Which goes in line with Megumi's statement that Yuji with no ce could beat them all with no ce.

We already scale No CE Yuji above Pre-Mai Maki but it's downscaling.
Perhaps in the next 4 years once we stop worrying about AP and more about the profiles, we can make Yuji upscale

 

[Rogue_Forge]

Megumi's ten shadows still working means he still has mahoraga

Holdup, new Megumi death just dropped

He didn't just die to the grade 3 curse, he got his ass beat by the grade 3 curse and summoned Mahoraga to beat it (dying in the process)

And then Wuji comes in and one shots both of them