Tensei Shitara Slime Datta Ken Discussion Thread 20

[Astral_Trinity439]

Watch Veldanava change the laws of the world so that he can go beyond the speed of light to try and kill Rimuru. Trust

Fr. Imma trust you and your copium

On a side note, speed of light not being constant would explain how Spiritons ignore space and time and Twilight could reach the "infinitely delayed domain of thought" with acceleration.

"Time is not Immutable" probably refers to timelines and the mask since the mask is a paradox to "the temporal thickness of anything is an immutable value of all things".

Also, we should give Rimuru greater immortality type 1 since he didn't die even after infinite time (timespan between beyond Time and Space to End of Time and Space)

Plus HGR negation for Veldanava is obvious.

「貴方が兄に敵対しても、勝てる訳がないじゃない！ どうせ兄に殺されるくらいなら、いっそ私の手で楽にしてあげるわ！」
“You can’t possibly beat my brother if you oppose him! If you’re just going to get killed byhim, then I’ll make it easy for you myself!”
自分でも無理なのを理解しているが、ヴェルザードは我慢ならなかったのだ。
She knew she couldn’t do it, but she simply couldn’t accept the alternative.
ギィが誰かに殺されるなど、そんなのは絶対に許せない。
The idea of Guy being killed by someone—unthinkable.
それがヴェルダナーヴァなのだとしたら、復活出来るという保証もないのである。
If it were Veldanava, there was no guarantee that Guy would be able to revive afterward.
そうなるくらいならいっそ、自分の手で殺してしまいたかった。
If that were the case, she’d rather kill him herself.
そうすれば、少なくともギィは復活出来るから。
At least then, Guy would come back.

Another thing:

精神世界では時の流れが違うので、ギィやヴェルザードがいつ目覚めても不思議ではない。だから気を張っていないとダメなのだが、ヴェルザードが放つ冷気や魔力波動なんかは、俺が『虚無崩壊』で包み込んでいるので外部まで影響が及ばない。
Time flows differently in the spiritual world, so it wouldn’t be strange for either Guy or Velzard to wake up at any moment. That meant I had to stay alert—but since I had wrapped Velzard’s freezing aura and magical waves inside my Void Collapse, none of it leaked outside.

 

[Astral_Trinity439]

They changed the iconic line
"That's just your imagination" to "it's your Universe's problem, not mine"....
And reading through it, it seems like heavy MTL xd

 

[Bahaha]

Twilight could reach the "infinitely delayed domain of thought" with acceleration.

Really wish someone could upgrade thought speed to infinite speed but can I see the scans for this feat?

 

[Astral_Trinity439]

Really wish someone could upgrade thought speed to infinite speed but can I see the scans for this feat?

頭の回転を最大限に速めて、数百万、数千万倍という思考加速状態で、状況把握に努めていた。（何が起きた!? ボクの〝[永劫の黄昏][エターナルトワイライト]〟は完璧だったのに、どうして テスタロッサは無事なんだ？ いや、それよりも──この〝白い闇〟は何なんだ!?）

その〝白〟は、トワイライトの身体を蝕んでいく。

それは、肉体の再生速度を上回るほどの速度だ。

（いや、落ち着け。身体が塵になろうが、また〝[擬竜体][ぎりゅうたい]〟を創れば済む。それよ
りも今は、テスタロッサが何をしたのか探る方が重要──）

自分の肉体がどうなろうが、それは後回しだと割り切って、トワイライトは状況分析を再開させ
ようとした。

その時、限りなく遅滞した思考領域に、テスタロッサの『思念』が届いた。

 

[Ultimuru]

Fr. Imma trust you and your copium

On a side note, speed of light not being constant would explain how Spiritons ignore space and time and Twilight could reach the "infinitely delayed domain of thought" with acceleration.

"Time is not Immutable" probably refers to timelines and the mask since the mask is a paradox to "the temporal thickness of anything is an immutable value of all things".

Also, we should give Rimuru greater immortality type 1 since he didn't die even after infinite time (timespan between beyond Time and Space to End of Time and Space)

Plus HGR negation for Veldanava is obvious.

Another thing:

"Time flows differently in the spiritual world"

So another proof for people saying "physical worlds and spiritual worlds are planets". Unless these delulus want to say that time flows differently on different planets lol.

 

[Ultimuru]

They changed the iconic line
"That's just your imagination" to "it's your Universe's problem, not mine"....
And reading through it, it seems like heavy MTL xd

I mean, they released it quickly. Obvious MTL

 

[Astral_Trinity439]

Another thing.
Skills aren't lost after Heart core destruction and regeneration/resurrection

自身が死んでも、自我を残し たまま完全復活出来るだろう。 しかし、ヴェルザードはそう ではな いのである。 霊子一粒の狂いもない完全同 一の〝魂〟であろうとも、見た目 や能力が完全に 一致しようとも、 その性格は別物となる。それは果 たして、同一存在と言えるのであ ろうか？ 今 まで疑った事などなかった が、ギィはふと、それが疑問に思 えた。 気が急くものの焦る事なく、 ギィは防壁を突破する。 そして見つけた。
Even if he died, he could fully resurrect while retaining his Ego. Velzard, however, would not. Even if the “Soul” was perfectly identical, without a single flaw in any spiritual particle, and even if appearance and the Skills matched perfectly, the personality would differ. Could such a being truly be considered the same existence? Guy had never questioned this before, but now it struck him as uncertain. Though anxious, he did not panic, and he broke through the barriers. And then, he found it.

 

[Ultimuru]

Another thing.
Skills aren't lost after Heart core destruction and regeneration/resurrection

We are so back

 

[Bahaha]

Spoiler: ChatGPT Translation

He pushed his mental processing to the absolute limit, accelerating his thoughts by millions—no, tens of millions—of times as he struggled to grasp the situation.
(What happened!? My Eternal Twilight was flawless, so why is Testarossa unharmed? No—more importantly, what is this white darkness!?)

That “white” was eating away at Twilight’s body.

It moved faster than his body could regenerate.

(No, calm down. Even if this body turns to dust, I can just create another Pseudo-Dragon Form. What matters now is figuring out what Testarossa did—)

He forced himself to set aside what was happening to his own body, deciding it could wait, and tried to resume his situational analysis.

At that moment, a “thought” from Testarossa reached his greatly slowed mental domain.

It's not here in the mtl

 

[Astral_Trinity439]

Spoiler: ChatGPT Translation

He pushed his mental processing to the absolute limit, accelerating his thoughts by millions—no, tens of millions—of times as he struggled to grasp the situation.
(What happened!? My Eternal Twilight was flawless, so why is Testarossa unharmed? No—more importantly, what is this white darkness!?)

That “white” was eating away at Twilight’s body.

It moved faster than his body could regenerate.

(No, calm down. Even if this body turns to dust, I can just create another Pseudo-Dragon Form. What matters now is figuring out what Testarossa did—)

He forced himself to set aside what was happening to his own body, deciding it could wait, and tried to resume his situational analysis.

At that moment, a “thought” from Testarossa reached his greatly slowed mental domain.

It's not here in the mtl

MTL. Plus giving Ai too large a text wall often messes up the translation. That's why I do it section by section.

Anyway the kanji is 限りなく which means "infinitely" (delayed/slowed down).

限りなく - Jisho.org

jisho.org

 

[AstraphelNoctis4]

Guy, practiced at this, broke through Velzard’s multiple mental barriers and dived toward the abyss of the "Soul" which is the essence of a "True Dragon."
Speaking of which, CM3 addition to heart core since it is the essence of a true dragon

Forget the soul for a moment, do you think we can treat the astral body as a fundamental unit in this case?
Because if that’s true, then we might end up with two aspects of High-Godly resurrection or regeneration (memory or information-based, maybe?) for mid tiers.

Anyway, since this is MTL, there might be something I’m misunderstanding, but in this sentence, isn’t the soul stated to be the essence?

practiced at this, broke through Velzard’s multiple mental barriers and Dived toward the abyss of the "Soul" which is the essence of a "True Dragon."
Touching Velzard’s Heart (Core) was where the real work began.
Guy shed even his Spirit Body and became a completely defenseless Astral Body.
If he lost focus, his ego would be swallowed by Velzard’s mind, and the 'Aggressive Heart Erosion' (Spiritual Dive) Guy was performing would be broken.
If that happened, Guy’s consciousness itself would vanish, but even so, there was no anxiety at all.
There was no need to force it.

 

[Ultimuru]

Forget the soul for a moment, do you think we can treat the astral body as a fundamental unit in this case?
Because if that’s true, then we might end up with two aspects of High-Godly resurrection or regeneration (memory or information-based, maybe?) for mid tiers.

Anyway, since this is MTL, there might be something I’m misunderstanding, but in this sentence, isn’t the soul stated to be the essence?

I am more curious why soul is in quotes

 

[Ultimuru]

How strong actually should be this Veldanava? If he can use any skill that can be made by World Language then eating him would be equal with Rimuru gaining Akashic Records in WN

 

[AlexSamDen]

How strong actually should be this Veldanava? If he can use any skill that can be made by World Language then eating him would be equal with Rimuru gaining Akashic Records in WN

This should be TD Velda. No idea on other things, we don't really have any clues, so only way to know - 29 of November (if I'm not mistaken, it's actually 28th for most of us)

 

[Astral_Trinity439]

I am more curious why soul is in quotes

The raws ALWAYS mentions Soul in quotes as far as I remember, in all the soul related scans I've seen.

Forget the soul for a moment, do you think we can treat the astral body as a fundamental unit in this case?
Because if that’s true, then we might end up with two aspects of High-Godly resurrection or regeneration (memory or information-based, maybe?) for mid tiers.

Anyway, since this is MTL, there might be something I’m misunderstanding, but in this sentence, isn’t the soul stated to be the essence?

It is, kinda. And as for what aspect it'll be, maybe something like Aether since an attack that destroys Magicule-based existences is called Aether Break.

Scans I've gathered:

Astral Body​

Definition​

The Astral Body (also called Star Ethereal Body) is the aspect that serves as the Thought Computational Device, used by the Soul to express thoughts and intentions. Simply say, it's the container for the Soul.

Independency of Astral Body​

Even if the brain is permanently damaged, memories can be recovered by the mind alone. However, if the Spiritual Body (Spirit) is damaged, that likely means the damage extends to the Astral Body as well, which makes recovery impossible.

Even more so, there are some beings, those with the <Perfect Memory> skill for instance, that can think purely with their soul and astral body alone, thus, even if one tries to harm or control their Spiritual Body (Spirit), the attacks are neutralized since they can store it with their astral bodies. And even if their physical body is damaged, such as their heads getting blown off, they can still regenerate. However, for those that can only think with their Spiritual body, existing as an Astral body alone is impossible.

For such beings, even if the Spiritual Body (Spirit) is destroyed, they can survive purely with their Astral body. A downside, however, is that one may be significantly weakened and lose some of their power if the Spiritual body is destroyed, because Power (Force) is accumulated in the Spiritual body. Additionally, it's implied that for such beings, if the Astral body is destroyed, they are erased from existence itself. Of course, there are always exceptions, such as those with a better regeneration skill.

Additionally, destroying the Spiritual body does not mean the Astral body will also simultaneously be destroyed by necessity.

Astral Body as a Fundamental Aspect​

In essence, the Astral Body is made up of magicules. That is true at least for monsters (a large variety of creatures, simply any life-form that isn't human or demi-human).

Even if the Physical body and Spiritual Body is damaged/destroyed, they can still regenerate as long as their Soul (and Astral body, its vessel) exist. However, if the supply of magicules is cut, the being is unable to maintain their existence at all, and is erased. That is, as magicules are the essence which makes up a monster, without it, they are erased from existence itself.

Conclusion: The Astral Body is the fundamental aspect beyond the mind, separated from the Mind and Soul, completely independent of lesser fundamental aspects such as the Spiritual Body and Physical Body.

 

[PrimeHydra64]

"Time flows differently in the spiritual world"

So another proof for people saying "physical worlds and spiritual worlds are planets". Unless these delulus want to say that time flows differently on different planets lol.

That spiritual world isn't like lets say the demon world but a mental world like what happened with chloe. It's weird because 精神 means spirit and also mind/mental.

 

[PrimeHydra64]

I just thought of something, what if Twilight is in control of Jahil's body so that he can try and use Angra Mainyu on the now resurrected Veldanava. Well, that is my theory anyway lol.

 

[Astral_Trinity439]

I just thought of something, what if Twilight is in control of Jahil's body so that he can try and use Angra Mainyu on the now resurrected Veldanava. Well, that is my theory anyway lol.

My theory is still that that ain't Veldanava lol
Same reason as Guy

Plus we had similar stuff in WN where Velzard mistook Manas Velda as her brother.
Though I do think the real Veldanava will come in the "second coming" chapter.

Who knows, maybe this volume will have everything getting nuked by Ivarage and Veldanava creating everything again, yet Rimuru's soul somehow doesn't get nuked or at least retains it's memories and that somehow helps everyone else remember their original world too. It's a far fetched theory but lemme cope on the second coming

 

[Ultimuru]

That spiritual world isn't like lets say the demon world but a mental world like what happened with chloe. It's weird because 精神 means spirit and also mind/mental.

Aren't all spiritual worlds mental worlds? Since strength of will is what defies strength there

 

[Ultimuru]

My theory is still that that ain't Veldanava lol
Same reason as Guy

Plus we had similar stuff in WN where Velzard mistook Manas Velda as her brother.
Though I do think the real Veldanava will come in the "second coming" chapter.

Who knows, maybe this volume will have everything getting nuked by Ivarage and Veldanava creating everything again, yet Rimuru's soul somehow doesn't get nuked or at least retains it's memories and that somehow helps everyone else remember their original world too. It's a far fetched theory but lemme cope on the second coming

I dunno. Everyone seems to hype him too much just to troll readers. Also personality change via resurrection makes a lot of sense and would be cool reference to first volumes where resurrection of true dragons was explained (and also another proof that Fuse remember what he established and doesn't retcon things as some people say)

 

[PrimeHydra64]

Aren't all spiritual worlds mental worlds? Since strength of will is what defies strength there

I mean technically but spiritual worlds that have spiritual lifeforms in them are not the "mental landscape" of an individual.

For example, Mental Landscapes embody the mental state of a person.

And spiritual worlds are worlds that are purely without material/physical elements.

 

[CodeCCLL]

Watch Veldanava change the laws of the world so that he can go beyond the speed of light to try and kill Rimuru. Trust

That's too good idea for showing power of Veldanava.

Plus HGR negation for Veldanava is obvious

Now all we need is for Rimuru to resist.

 

[Bahaha]

Spoiler: Almost Infinite

Short answer:
Because 「限りなく」 in Japanese does not mean literally infinite. It means “approaching the limit / asymptotically close / almost to the point of.”

■ Detailed Explanation
1. 「限りなく」 means “limitlessly,” not “with no limit.”
In Japanese, 限りなく (kagirinaku) is an adverb meaning:

• almost to the limit
• as much as possible
• nearly infinitely
• to an extreme degree

It evokes infinity, but is not actually infinite.

Examples:

• 限りなく透明 → almost perfectly transparent
• 限りなくゼロに近い → approaching zero (but not zero)

So in your sentence:

限りなく遅滞した思考領域

means:

• a thought domain slowed to an almost-limitless degree
• slowed to the point of being nearly infinite
• slowed as far as it can practically go

It’s hyperbolic, not a literal claim of infinite delay.

2. If the author wanted “infinite,” they would write something else
Japanese has direct ways to say “infinite”:

• 無限の (mugen no)
• 無限に (mugen ni)
• 完全に停止した (completely stopped)
• 無限の遅延 (infinite delay — rare in fiction)

The author chose 限りなく because it conveys extremity without literal infinity.

 

[Bahaha]

My theory is still that that ain't Veldanava lol
Same reason as Guy

Plus we had similar stuff in WN where Velzard mistook Manas Velda as her brother.
Though I do think the real Veldanava will come in the "second coming" chapter.

Who knows, maybe this volume will have everything getting nuked by Ivarage and Veldanava creating everything again, yet Rimuru's soul somehow doesn't get nuked or at least retains it's memories and that somehow helps everyone else remember their original world too. It's a far fetched theory but lemme cope on the second coming

I think that's just Veldanava but his personality changed (true dragon resurrection) so if he wanted imperfection before then he would want to go back to perfection now.

 

[AstraphelNoctis4]

Spoiler: Almost Infinite

Short answer:
Because 「限りなく」 in Japanese does not mean literally infinite. It means “approaching the limit / asymptotically close / almost to the point of.”

■ Detailed Explanation
1. 「限りなく」 means “limitlessly,” not “with no limit.”
In Japanese, 限りなく (kagirinaku) is an adverb meaning:

• almost to the limit
• as much as possible
• nearly infinitely
• to an extreme degree

It evokes infinity, but is not actually infinite.

Examples:

• 限りなく透明 → almost perfectly transparent
• 限りなくゼロに近い → approaching zero (but not zero)

So in your sentence:

限りなく遅滞した思考領域

means:

• a thought domain slowed to an almost-limitless degree
• slowed to the point of being nearly infinite
• slowed as far as it can practically go

It’s hyperbolic, not a literal claim of infinite delay.

2. If the author wanted “infinite,” they would write something else
Japanese has direct ways to say “infinite”:

• 無限の (mugen no)
• 無限に (mugen ni)
• 完全に停止した (completely stopped)
• 無限の遅延 (infinite delay — rare in fiction)

The author chose 限りなく because it conveys extremity without literal infinity.

3rd one "Slowed as far as it can practically go" fits perfectly here

 

[Community_Gamer]

Only with imaginary collapse. Without it he's not even true dragon level.

No. It was referring to Diablo in his current state

 

[PrimeHydra64]

Something else that I am looking forward to is seeing if Pippin's secret method of the infinite corridor gets further explained from the syosetu version.

 

[Lycoris4812]

Something else that I am looking forward to is seeing if Pippin's secret method of the infinite corridor gets further explained from the syosetu version.

True, also, if I remember correctly, Rimuru could kill someone who could regen from disintegration completely destroying all of his spiritrons.

 

[Loetkolben16]

No. It was referring to Diablo in his current state

No, Guy said that based on the remains of imaginary collapse in his body, but more importantly since he beat Feldway.

Diablo beating Feldway was the reason Guy said Diablo is equal to him, which Diablo only managed with imaginary supply. He can't do that without it.

 

[Loetkolben16]

True, also, if I remember correctly, Rimuru could kill someone who could regen from disgringration completely destroying all of his spiritrons.

If you are referring to Prelix, from the vacation side story, then Rimuru managed that, via attacking him with sunlight and therefore nullifying his immortality.

 

[Lycoris4812]

If you are referring to Prelix, from the vacation side story, then Rimuru managed that, via attacking him with sunlight and therefore nullifying his immortality.

I know, but there was something else that said he could without using sunlight. Or at least implied it.

 

[Loetkolben16]

I know, but there was something else that said he could without using sunlight. Or at least implied it.

You sure?

I don't remember that.

But could just be my Alzheimer's at work.

 

[PrimeHydra64]

What's crazy is Fuse wrote a story with references to 3x3 Eyes and then somehow the manga adaptation was being drawn by the mangaka of 3x3 Eyes. He really manifested it into existence lol

 

[Lycoris4812]

You sure?

I don't remember that.

But could just be my Alzheimer's at work.

I reread it, and it doesn't seem that light is his weakness. Cause he was able to continuously come back from being hit by it. I think it was more of it caused him pain. But in the end, he did say that Rimuru could kill him.

 

[Shiraito983]

Who has vol 21? english

 

[Astral_Trinity439]

I dunno. Everyone seems to hype him too much just to troll readers. Also personality change via resurrection makes a lot of sense and would be cool reference to first volumes where resurrection of true dragons was explained (and also another proof that Fuse remember what he established and doesn't retcon things as some people say)

To be fair, Ciel also theorized that Veldanava wouldn't lose his memories cuz well, he's Veldanava. And if Veldanava's personality changed after resurrection, Guy would already know it instead of being suspicious.

True, also, if I remember correctly, Rimuru could kill someone who could regen from disintegration completely destroying all of his spiritrons.

Rather than destroying his spiritons, he made something more like a Prison where buffed Megiddo would continuously damage Perlix until his stamina ran out. Sort of like sealing.

Plus just destroying all his spiritons won't kill him, he can regen even from Infons destruction/separation.

No, Guy said that based on the remains of imaginary collapse in his body, but more importantly since he beat Feldway.

Diablo beating Feldway was the reason Guy said Diablo is equal to him, which Diablo only managed with imaginary supply. He can't do that without it.

Na.
Here's the narrative:

元々、ギィから見てもディアブロは異常だった。ギィに匹敵するほどの戦闘センスを有しているの に、〝力〟を求めない変人悪魔だったのだ。 ただし、真の意味での〝強さ〟を追求しており、 ギィとは違った意味で最強だった。 同条件の相手には負ける事はないというのが、黒の王ディア ブロの真骨頂だったのである。
Originally, even to Guy, Diablo was abnormal. A demon with combat sense rivaling Guy’s, yet a strange one who did not seek “Power.” However, he pursued true “Strength,” making him the strongest in a different sense than Guy. The hallmark of the King of Black, Diablo, was that he would not lose to an opponent under the equal conditions.
そんなディアブロの存在値が、ギィに並ぼうとしていた。
That level of presence was approaching Guy’s.
（しかも、怪しげな『虚無』の残滓まで漂わせやがって……）
(And he even emanates the traces of that suspicious “Emptiness”...)
ギィは相手の力量を簡単に見抜けるのだが、演算特化した今は、ほぼ完璧にディアブロの実力 を把握出来ていた。
Guy could easily gauge the opponent’s abilities, and in this computation-specialized state, he could almost perfectly grasp Diablo’s actual power.
ミリムの暴走を止めたのがリムルだとしたら、フェルドウェイの相手をしたのはディアブロだろう。 つまり、同条件という縛りを失くしても、ギィと同格の存在に至っているのは間違いなかった。
If Rimuru stopped Milim’s rampage, Diablo likely handled Feldway. In other words, even without equal conditions as a constraint, Diablo was undeniably a being on par with Guy.
（やるじゃねーか。ま、全身ガタガタみてーだが、そんじょそこらのヤツには負けねーだろうさ）
(Not bad. He’s all shaky, but I doubt he’d lose to anyone else.)
ディアブロだけを残したリムルの判断は、ギィとしても納得のいくものだったのだ。
Rimuru’s decision to leave only Diablo behind was understandable to Guy.

It's pretty clear that even no Infons sealing Diablo (equal conditions) is comparable to Guy, at least according to Guy himself.

 

[Lycoris4812]

Rather than destroying his spiritons, he made something more like a Prison where buffed Megiddo would continuously damage Perlix until his stamina ran out. Sort of like sealing.

Plus just destroying all his spiritons won't kill him, he can regen even from Infons destruction/separation.

Yeah but afterward perlix said that Rimuru almost killed him/could.

 

[AstraphelNoctis4]

No, Guy said that based on the remains of imaginary collapse in his body, but more importantly since he beat Feldway.

Guy was only able to tell after she transformed into a woman, which of course gave her greater calculation ability, so I assume that’s when he was finally able to break through Diablo’s concealment of his EP (which had been hinted to be fake from the very beginning).
And the remnants of Void Collapse don’t really matter as they are well just remains.So yes, base Diablo was essentially stated to have a comparable amount of EP.

And also, guys statement of Diablo beating feldway was an assumption/guess based on Diablo’s current strength and EP.

Diablo beating Feldway was the reason Guy said Diablo is equal to him, which Diablo only managed with imaginary supply. He can't do that without it.

Of course, but still , he is comparable to him at least.

 

[Ultimuru]

6 days till the end of this journey guys.

 

[CodeCCLL]

@TheHyperGuy

“Forget this planet — it likely has no need for the entire world…”

My friend really translated the expression in such a way that I think he's going to claim that the whole world is planet and only the world is just civilization.

I'm going to do more calculations...