Tensei Shitara Slime Datta Ken Discussion Thread 20

[Tempestdragon6]

Guys hear me out.




Rimuru can wrap Void Collapse around things and even convert his own aura into Void Collapse itself. It do not resist, but completely nullify True Dragon level attacks.

Isn't it actually new best defense in verse? Defense that can be easily used also as an offense. I believe if someone physically would try to attack Rimuru and touch Void Collapse, their body would start instantly disintegrating which would be deadly for anyone below regeneration speed of Rimuru's cells.

Also this part picked my interest.



ChatGPT gave me this result



So Rimuru is definitely something more than other True Dragons if Guy is able to penetrate Velzard's mental barriers and dive into abyss of her soul, but he can't see trough Rimuru's "true existence".

Is that maybe a foreshadowing for Transcendent God something that comes in this volume?

wanking to the roof is back baby

 

[PrimeHydra64]

Guys hear me out.

Rimuru can wrap Void Collapse around things and even convert his own aura into Void Collapse itself. It do not resist, but completely nullify True Dragon level attacks.

Isn't it actually new best defense in verse? Defense that can be easily used also as an offense. I believe if someone physically would try to attack Rimuru and touch Void Collapse, their body would start instantly disintegrating which would be deadly for anyone below regeneration speed of Rimuru's cells.

That is absolutely set up for Nihility/Void Barrier

 

[PrimeHydra64]

How should we name this key? Satoru Tempest? Rimuru Mikami?

Should this be a key? Since for all we know, it is just Rimuru using Universal Shapeshift

 

[PHANtomFELdway]

Man I’m so excited for vol 23. Looks to be a butload of information and lore. Too bad I’ll be on a plane the day it comes out. Hopefully it comes out when I land so I can immediately read it. Ik the discord server is going to blow up with spoilers.

Miss your plane for it.

 

[Astral_Trinity439]

If translation is accurate, it clearly states that True Dragons can resurrect from nothingess. We already now but yeh it's good supporting proof.

Another thing to add is how Velgrynd said the only way Rimuru would "evolve" into a true dragon was if he was always one from the beginning or similar in essence, but his true nature wasn't realized or something like that

That could explain how he could Regen from a direct hit from disintegration which reduces targets like Twilight to nothing (though his ego still survived inside the Unique skill Greed since skills aren't destroyed upon heart core destruction). After all, Rimuru only used infinite Regen to explicitly regen his physical body.

 

[Ultimuru]

Another thing to add is how Velgrynd said the only way Rimuru would "evolve" into a true dragon was if he was always one from the beginning or similar in essence, but his true nature wasn't realized or something like that

That could explain how he could Regen from a direct hit from disintegration which reduces targets like Twilight to nothing (though his ego still survived inside the Unique skill Greed since skills aren't destroyed upon heart core destruction). After all, Rimuru only used infinite Regen to explicitly regen his physical body.

Preview mentions again that True Dragons revive after death, but with different personality (that's probably what happened to Veldanava) but are they keeping their skills? If yes, shouldn't Ciel be able to make a "backup" of Rimuru's personality and transfer it to him right after revival, so he stays the same?

 

[Ultimuru]

That is absolutely set up for Nihility/Void Barrier

Ngl Nihility Barrier is something I wanted in LN for a long time.

 

[Astral_Trinity439]

Preview mentions again that True Dragons revive after death, but with different personality (that's probably what happened to Veldanava) but are they keeping their skills? If yes, shouldn't Ciel be able to make a "backup" of Rimuru's personality and transfer it to him right after revival, so he stays the same?

True. But ngl I don't think it's really Veldanava. Could be Jahil impersonating him. Besides, why would he possess Jahil's body instead of making his own? After all, that's an intrinsic ability of True Dragons (V4).

My first guess is that when Jahil killed human Velda Nava, he took his memories and is now pretending to be him. And Fuse did something similar to that in WN too so...

Other than that, besides, Twilight can regen/resurrect from being reduced to an Ego inside a skill and even maintain his existence in that state so...

 

[Ultimuru]

What if Tensura would take place in Rimuru's old world.

 

[Astral_Trinity439]

So it's confirmed, heart core destruction doesn't do anything to Skills (figures, cuz they're literally Laws themselves and subset of the World Law) and resurrecting or regenerating from heart core destruction doesn't make you lose em.

 

[Astral_Trinity439]

Guy, practiced at this, broke through Velzard’s multiple mental barriers and dived toward the abyss of the "Soul" which is the essence of a "True Dragon."
Speaking of which, CM3 addition to heart core since it is the essence of a true dragon

Tbh I think it's referring to the Soul.

The whole passage is that Guy dives into the Abyss of Velzard's Soul that's described as her "essence", yet just next like it says "the real challenge begins when Guy reaches the heart core". That implied "essence" refers to Soul... Which goes with Veldora saying Soul is the true essence of life for everyone.

 

[PrimeHydra64]

Tbh I think it's referring to the Soul.

The whole passage is that Guy dives into the Abyss of Velzard's Soul that's described as her "essence", yet just next like it says "the real challenge begins when Guy reaches the heart core". That implied "essence" refers to Soul... Which goes with Veldora saying Soul is the true essence of life for everyone.

Alright but which volume did that Veldora quote come from?

 

[CodeCCLL]

Should this be a key? Since for all we know, it is just Rimuru using Universal Shapeshift

Yes, this is just EoS key.

 

[CodeCCLL]

I'm dense this means True dragons can resist whatever años throws at them right?

Definitly no and don't ask why.

 

[Ultimuru]

Alright but which volume did that Veldora quote come from?

Most likely first one. After getting body Veldora became more of a supporting character than source of information.

Ot it's from Veldora's journals.

 

[PrimeHydra64]

It seems like this volume might have a somewhat significant amount of carry over from the WN since the "Absolute Collapse Factor" and how the fireball powered by nihility collapse becomes equivalent or greater than nuclear flame were mentioned. Ill go check if it is the same or if there is slight differences.

 

[Astral_Trinity439]

Alright but which volume did that Veldora quote come from?

It was Veldora's journal. I believe the one where he talked about Shion's death and it's impact on Rimuru

So volume 13~14 most likely

 

[Ultimuru]

It seems like this volume might have a somewhat significant amount of carry over from the WN since the "Absolute Collapse Factor" and how the fireball powered by nihility collapse becomes equivalent or greater than nuclear flame were mentioned. Ill go check if it is the same or if there is slight differences.

Let's remember that WN described Void Collapse as "beyond dimensional hierarchy"

 

[Astral_Trinity439]

It seems like this volume might have a somewhat significant amount of carry over from the WN since the "Absolute Collapse Factor" and how the fireball powered by nihility collapse becomes equivalent or greater than nuclear flame were mentioned. Ill go check if it is the same or if there is slight differences.

The absolute collapse factor was the same. I remember sending the WN raws for that here before. If you wanna see the whole narrative it's in either chapter 199, 181 or 247.

As for the flame part, it wasn't "exactly" mentioned, but it did mention how just using Void Collapse as fuel for regular magic like fire ball caused a huge uncontrollable explosion. In Chapter 199 iirc

Also:

So it's confirmed, heart core destruction doesn't do anything to Skills (figures, cuz they're literally Laws themselves and subset of the World Law) and resurrecting or regenerating from heart core destruction doesn't make you lose em.

 

[Neoxxi16]

What abilities and new information can be inferred from this development?

 

[AlexSamDen]

What abilities and new information can be inferred from this development?

Better to wait just like 8 days before really concluding anything maybe epilogue will bring r>f things idk

 

[PrimeHydra64]

LN

Spoiler: LN Version

それはどういう事かと言うと、[究極能力][アルティメットスキル]『[虚空之神][アザトース]』というのは、極論すれば圧倒的なまでのエネルギーの塊だという話だね。
　俺が今使っている『虚無崩壊』というのも、果ての世界で溜め込まれた[絶対的な崩壊因子][マイナスエネルギー]が正体なのである。
　シエルさんでさえ扱いに困っていたようだが、無限に時間をかけて研究した成果として、今ではお手軽に流用出来るようになったのだと。
　うん、凄いね。
　原子炉から核融合炉に変わった感じ？　と聞いたら、《違う》と、真顔っぽい雰囲気で断言されたよね。
　もっと褒めて欲しかったらしいが、俺に細かい気配りを求める方が間違っていると思うのだよ。
　まあ、ともかく。
　このエネルギーを実験するのは、迷宮内でさえ危険だったらしい。
　手加減とか出来るような代物ではなかったらしく、果ての世界は最高の実験場所だったのだそうだ。
　敵を利してどうする──と、俺はフェルドウェイを憐れに思ったのだった。
　ちなみに、俺が試しで魔法の発動に利用してみたら、大爆発が生じた。
　初歩の初歩である元素魔法：[火炎球][ファイア]だったのだが、いきなり大炎上。核撃魔法：[破滅の炎][ニュークリアフレイム]に匹敵するか上回るほどの、広範囲を焼き尽くす極大魔法になってしまったのである。



So what does that mean? In short, the Ultimate Skill [Void God] — Azathoth is, when you get right down to it, nothing more or less than an overwhelming mass of energy.

The “Void Collapse” I’m using right now is actually the accumulated Absolute Collapse Factor—negative energy—from the End of the World.
Even Ciel-san had trouble handling it at first, but after researching it for what was essentially infinite time, she managed to make it easy to repurpose.

Yeah… pretty amazing.

When I asked, “So it’s like going from a nuclear reactor to a fusion reactor?” she replied ‘No.’
Flatly. With the kind of atmosphere that told me she was absolutely serious.
Apparently she wanted me to praise her more, but honestly, expecting that level of sensitivity from me is the real mistake here.

Anyway.

Even experimenting with this energy was dangerous, apparently—even inside the labyrinth.
It wasn’t the kind of thing you could ‘hold back’ with. The End of the World was the only place suitable as an ideal test site.

I couldn’t help but pity Feldway—what was he thinking, giving the enemy something like this to work with?

By the way, when I tried using it once to cast a spell as a test, it caused a massive explosion.
It was supposed to be the most basic of elemental spells—Fireball—but it immediately escalated into a raging inferno.
It turned into an extreme-class spell that burned everything in a wide area, on par with—or even surpassing—Nuclear Flame, a nuclear-strike-class spell.

WN

Spoiler: WN Version

それはどういう事かと言うと、『虚空之神《アザトース》』とは、圧倒的なまでのエネルギーの塊なのである。
　〝虚無崩壊〟という、絶対的な崩壊因子《エネルギー》。
　このエネルギーを流用する事は、シエル先生にとっても至難の業であるらしい。
　この能力は、手加減とか出来るような代物では無いとの事。
　最初、魔法の発動にこのエネルギーを利用して実験したのだ。初歩的な火を出す魔法で、大爆発が生じた。
　迷宮内の実験部屋で行った為、大惨事には至らなかったのだが、二度と軽々しく実験出来ないと悟ったのである。


What this means is that "The God of the Void, Azathoth," is an overwhelming mass of energy.

It is the "Void Collapse," an absolute factor of destruction—energy itself.

It seems that even for Teacher Ciel, utilizing this energy is a difficult task.

This ability is not something that can be used with restraint or moderation.

At first, they experimented by using this energy to activate magic. In the case of a basic fire spell, a huge explosion occurred.

Since the experiment was conducted in the laboratory inside the labyrinth, it did not result in a great disaster, but they realized they could never conduct such an experiment carelessly again.

Yeah most notable changes is that in the LN it is explicitly called Minus/Negative Energy along with "Absolute Collapse Factor" having brackets around it and WN it is just energy. LN specifies that the huge explosion is equal to nuclear flame and the WN just says it was just larger. And Finally, LN talks about the end of space and time and how Ciel had infinite time to research it and safely conduct experiments at the end of time and space and obviously the WN does not since this statement comes up earlier in the timeline than in the LN.

 

[Violatas]

 

[Violatas]

Noice. Diablo stated to be on par with current Guy

 

[Loetkolben16]

Noice. Diablo stated to be on par with current Guy

Only with imaginary collapse. Without it he's not even true dragon level.

 

[Violatas]

Only with imaginary collapse. Without it he's not even true dragon level.

SHUT UP
Mainly thought it was interesting since we have a good idea where we can scale Guy to so ez tier 2.
Looking forward to those crts

 

[Loetkolben16]

SHUT UP
Mainly thought it was interesting since we have a good idea where we can scale Guy to so ez tier 2.
Looking forward to those crts

True, we finally have the confirmation that Guy would beat Feldway too. Cementing him at his position of the top of the genesis class characters, together with stampede Milim, Feldway and imaginary supply Diablo.

And I had to mention it, because I had to argue with too many Diablo glazers as well as Guy downplayers in the last few months.

More importantly Dino sealed Veldanava's and Lucia's corpses in an 'ark' at least on the level of the one Luminous made for Chronoa, if not on a higher level, which shows that he has incredible control over spiritrons.

 

[K'rimuru]

Besides @Astral_Trinity439.

Is the discussion thread about the resistance of ultimate skill users still active ?

 

[Astral_Trinity439]

Yeah most notable changes is that in the LN it is explicitly called Minus/Negative Energy

It was called so in WN chapter 248 ¯⁠\⁠⁠(⁠ツ⁠)⁠⁠/⁠¯

along with "Absolute Collapse Factor" having brackets around it and WN it is just energy.

well cuz Fuse mentioned both terms separately in it.

LN specifies that the huge explosion is equal to nuclear flame and the WN just says it was just larger.

Yep, though I think nuclear series magic might not have even been a concept in WN. Could be just forgetting things tho.

nd Finally, LN talks about the end of space and time and how Ciel had infinite time to research it and safely conduct experiments at the end of time and space and obviously the WN does not since this statement comes up earlier in the timeline than in the LN.

And that's the best shi kekekeke

Oof, and here I was translating the whole thing all day TwT
Oh welp, gonna send it anyways. Can still be useful since it combines both raws and English translation as well as the kanji notes.



Feel free to mention any errors you see.

(This is a proxy account so no issue with privacy btw)

 

[Astral_Trinity439]

Besides @Astral_Trinity439.

Is the discussion thread about the resistance of ultimate skill users still active ?

Yep

 

[K'rimuru]

Yep

I hope tonight or tomorrow

 

[Violatas]

AP aside, I'm still iffy on speed. I've yet to make up my mind on that and I kinda have to since it's important for a lil project I've been working on that I talked to @Astral_Trinity439 over a year ago about lol. Part of the reason I joined this thread is discuss all this since I don't exactly have a lot of people to talk about Tensura with (no, tik tok doesn't count ). Guess I'll be seeing y'all for that debate down the line

 

[Violatas]

@Ruler_Star_Kuma
No clue if you still follow this channel or not but assuming you do, we are nearing the time you can do that Diablo vs thread. Don't think I'd be joining that myself for obvious reasons given the reputation between both series but may change my mind. Idk

 

[AlexSamDen]

AP aside, I'm still iffy on speed. I've yet to make up my mind on that and I kinda have to since it's important for a lil project I've been working on that I talked to @Astral_Trinity439 over a year ago about lol. Part of the reason I joined this thread is discuss all this since I don't exactly have a lot of people to talk about Tensura with (no, tik tok doesn't count ). Guess I'll be seeing y'all for that debate down the line

If you ever want to, you can DM me or PM in discord, I'm always open for helping others

 

[Lycoris4812]

AP aside, I'm still iffy on speed. I've yet to make up my mind on that and I kinda have to since it's important for a lil project I've been working on that I talked to @Astral_Trinity439 over a year ago about lol. Part of the reason I joined this thread is discuss all this since I don't exactly have a lot of people to talk about Tensura with (no, tik tok doesn't count ). Guess I'll be seeing y'all for that debate down the line

Infons having immeasurable speed is pretty easy to argue, lots of statements of them moving through time. Anti-feats are the main problem, the preview did say that Ciel said that the speed of light isn't constant, so we'll probably get info on that soon in vol 23. Plus, new arguments are always coming up, some I think are very promising.

 

[PrimeHydra64]

Watch Veldanava change the laws of the world so that he can go beyond the speed of light to try and kill Rimuru. Trust

 

[K'rimuru]

Watch Veldanava change the laws of the world so that he can go beyond the speed of light to try and kill Rimuru. Trust

Rimuru neg the speed of light

 

[Violatas]

Watch Veldanava change the laws of the world so that he can go beyond the speed of light to try and kill Rimuru. Trust

I unironically hope something like this comes up since that'd explain the anti feats. If not uhhhhh . Ah well at least we can recover AP fairly easily for high tiers

 

[PrimeHydra64]

I wish Mitz Vah puts out the full sketch of Veldanava (Though we could just recolour Feldway) alongside his dragon form it would be so peak!

 

[Astral_Trinity439]

AP aside, I'm still iffy on speed. I've yet to make up my mind on that and I kinda have to since it's important for a lil project I've been working on that I talked to @Astral_Trinity439 over a year ago about lol. Part of the reason I joined this thread is discuss all this since I don't exactly have a lot of people to talk about Tensura with (no, tik tok doesn't count ). Guess I'll be seeing y'all for that debate down the line

Ln aside, WN is pretty clear with speed with all that Fuse's answers t o reviews on their respective chapters.

"There's a law that prevents you from attacking pastand thus the effect being realized in the present" to "Rimuru's an exception to all the laws". And he said it's possible to attack the future with specific things. Just that with the past it's impossible (cuz Law)