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(2 STAFF NEED) Genshin Low 2-C Downgrade

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PedjaTarzan said:
Okay so..how does this give tier 2 ap? how is a hax enough for tier 2 ap
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This is a universal framework of the Authority of Reason that Phanes' had.

HDE 4-D isn't necessarily make you tier 2 especially the tier Low 2-C that we talking about. You need to prove that you are capable of affecting the entire universe.
 
Sahlwrld said:
This is a universal framework of the Authority of Reason that Phanes' had.

HDE 4-D isn't necessarily make you tier 2 especially the tier Low 2-C that we talking about. You need to prove that you are capable of affecting the entire universe.
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why do i need to prove that
im asking YOU why is all this tier 2 and i got no answer..ehh ill just leave this for tomorrow
 
PedjaTarzan said:
why do i need to prove that
im asking YOU why is all this tier 2 and i got no answer..ehh ill just leave this for tomorrow
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Bruhh.. I dont talking to YOU.
what im saying is, if we wants a HDE 4-D to be qualified for at least Low 2-C, you need to prove that THAT character who have HDE are capable of affecting the entire universe.
 
Someone pls give a tldr of current args cuz I'm 500 miles outside the loop
 
AyOgUyS said:
Someone pls give a tldr of current args cuz I'm 500 miles outside the loop
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In summary: The scaling is wrong because of the mundane music/destiny system. It does not rule the universe even though it is said to be "a universal order" just because Phanes did not do something like change the destiny of the universe and that the false sky is the only reason it rules the destiny of Teyvat.

It is up to you to believe whether it is true or not.
 
AsterReal said:
In summary: The scaling is wrong because of the mundane music/destiny system. It does not rule the universe even though it is said to be "a universal order" just because Phanes did not do something like change the destiny of the universe and that the false sky is the only reason it rules the destiny of Teyvat.

It is up to you to believe whether it is true or not.
Click to expand...
genshin high tiers be like: do you believe or not?
 
Super_Nova said:
You failing to debunk my points? Even the one mod who actually opposed my points eventually agreed with me. So, if noone there (including you) managed to debunk my arguments, then it means they sure as hell are worth something; or, do you treat the mods here as infantile and incompetent?
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Yeah this one is just a slam dunk all over the CRT ngl, not only are the arguments here either just arguing from incredulity/moving the goalpost, they dont even attack anything worth it's merit in the previous CRT other than "they didnt do X so they cant do Y" (which is a flawed premise to begin with) and actively implying the mods are less than intelligent enough to deduce the previous CRT on their own merit
 
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AsterReal said:
In summary: The scaling is wrong because of the mundane music/destiny system. It does not rule the universe even though it is said to be "a universal order" just because Phanes did not do something like change the destiny of the universe and that the false sky is the only reason it rules the destiny of Teyvat.

It is up to you to believe whether it is true or not.
Click to expand...
Ok so you are disagreeing with downgrade? May I get a tldr from someone who agrees with downgrade then I will compare the args and vote (sorry for late response)
 
AyOgUyS said:
Ok so you are disagreeing with downgrade? May I get a tldr from someone who agrees with downgrade then I will compare the args and vote (sorry for late response)
Click to expand...
👇This is their only arguments and nothing else.
The claim is that Musica Mundana is controlled by Primordial One and thus Primordial One can influence entire universe's fate. This is obviously wrong since Primordial One has no control whatsoever over the universe as the universe is slowly dying and the abyss trying to get into Teyvat. Primordial One best move was to place a barrier called Fake Sky to protect Teyvat from outer cosmo. If Primordial One is truly capable of controlling musica munadan to control everything in the universe, this wouldn't happen.

Musica Mundana is not like universal musical order like Fontainians belived. They think fate works on universal level and that's wrong because Teyvat has its own law and its fate is controlled by Primordial One through the fake sky
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not only does it not prove that the heavenly principles do not have a universal framework but it is also a refusal to believe, arrogant and also ignorant because they hate this verse.

Even though the evidence is clearly saying that they do have it.
普世音律即是本源的音律。一切音律因之而起,因之而终。虚假与真实的星象(即内与外、下与上的星象,优恩尼娅会向你们详述这部分内容), 季节与时岁的往复,被划定的元素,宇宙中的一切都遵循这种音律的秩序运行…

(Universal music is the fundamental rhythm. All rhythms arise from it and end from it. The illusory and real celestial phenomena (i.e., inner and outer, lower and upper celestial phenomena, which Uegertia will explain in detail), the cycle of seasons and years, the defined elements—everything in the universe operates according to the order of this rhythm...)


……这里,你们应当注意普世音律与法图纳之间的关联。后者包含于前者, 前者却不等同于后者。任何规格与法图纳相近的音律,均可被称作普世音律,因为其自身便与一个世界等同………

正如卡西奥多此前向你们讲授过的那样,我们所谈论的「法图纳」与至尊并无………后者以前者为名,前者实为主宰万物普遍现象的「规则」,即是奴仆口中的「命运」………

(Here, you should note the connection between universal music and Fortuna. The latter is contained within the former, but the former is not identical to the latter. Any musical scale similar to Fortuna can be called universal music, because it is itself equivalent to a world…

As Cassiodor previously taught you, the “Fortuna” we speak of is not the same as the Supreme One… The latter takes its name from the former; the former is actually the “rule” that governs all universal phenomena, which is what the servants call “fate”…)

………凡灵音律即是俗世的音律。凡人与诸神的音律并无不同,均可被归为此类,因为它们的本质都是普世音律敲击灵魂质体的和音…

……想象一架竖琴,世间每一个实体都对应着这竖琴上的一根细微的弦丝 …………那宏伟的乐声并非来自单独的琴弦,而是来自所有琴弦的共振……这样的乐曲便是我们所说的普世音律………

(…The music of mortals is the music of the mundane world. The music of mortals and gods is no different; both can be categorized into this type, because their essence is the harmony of universal music striking the soul…

…Imagine a harp; every entity in the world corresponds to a tiny string on this harp… The magnificent music does not come from a single string, but from the resonance of all the strings… Such music is what we call universal music…)

they be doing like..
"Yeah they say that, But did they ever show him doing that? If he could do that, then why didn't he do this to prevent it from happening? If he truly can do that, then this won't happen"
like.. do they ever heard of Plot-Induced Stupidity?

And i'll say this again, i am 100% for sure that those who agree with this crt ARE NOT understand what they're talking about nor about these things and that previous CRT.

So THIS crt are onto Nothing and debunked absolutely NOTHING. Yeah, you heard me.
 
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Puppet43 said:
Sure, burden of proof

Ur being intellectually dishonest, he low key told u everything
Click to expand...
Keep arguing, it's like you're asking if grass is green when I've already shown you that it is. I won't answer any more questions until you show me something to refute it, because Musica Mundana is clearly stated to govern the entire universe. It's the chaos of Fortuna that can destroy the universe (not planets).

And because the game is set in Teyvat, you assume it only applies to Teyvat, ignoring the explanation. So, yeah? that's it.
 
I disagree with CRT for now but do note I am not an expert on the verse's lore.
 
I disagree with this CRT. It’s arguing based on what ifs and hypotheticals, some of which cannot be proven or disproven. For instance, “Why isn’t music a big deal to anyone else in Teyvat if it’s so powerful?” I don’t know. Why does no one besides the Sinnoh region in Pokémon care about the Creation Trio, who can destroy the multiverse easier than I can crack an egg? Ask the writers.

And let’s look at some more arguments. Why would someone Universal+ need to run from someone that’s Universal+? Seriously, nobody should be asking this question on a power scaling website. Not everyone in the same tier (Save for Tier 0) is the same power.

Oh, and the argument that lore can’t be trusted because it comes from locals? That’s how games and fantasy works. That’s a fantasy storytelling method which has been around forever. Steel manning your argument, we get that no characters in the game are trustworthy, because they are relying information from a biased point of view. This includes your character. Your PoV is an illusion.
 
Breakdown said:
I disagree with this CRT. It’s arguing based on what ifs and hypotheticals, some of which cannot be proven or disproven. For instance, “Why isn’t music a big deal to anyone else in Teyvat if it’s so powerful?” I don’t know. Why does no one besides the Sinnoh region in Pokémon care about the Creation Trio, who can destroy the multiverse easier than I can crack an egg? Ask the writers.

And let’s look at some more arguments. Why would someone Universal+ need to run from someone that’s Universal+? Seriously, nobody should be asking this question on a power scaling website. Not everyone in the same tier (Save for Tier 0) is the same power.

Oh, and the argument that lore can’t be trusted because it comes from locals? That’s how games and fantasy works. That’s a fantasy storytelling method which has been around forever. Steel manning your argument, we get that no characters in the game are trustworthy, because they are relying information from a biased point of view. This includes your character. Your PoV is an illusion.
Click to expand...
I don't think you actually got the point, Phanes SHOULDN'T even be Universal+ in the first place, because of what? He created the 4 Shades that's SUPPOSEDLY Universal+ that helped him fight PLANETARY LEVEL beings like Sovereign and Nibelung who created a sun and 3 moons? Are we deadass? Like, do you forgot why Phanes even came to Teyvat? It was to seek refuge against the Abyss, against an Universal+ threat so if he is capable of making Universal+ beings, there's absolutely no reason for him to seek refuge in Teyvat lmao (Mind you in the Genshin Impact verse page, the tiering one, we have the Shades and Sovereign being Low 2-C that massively upscales from Nibelung's 4-C feat, in which that he created the sun and the 3 moons). Atleast the Funerary Year one made sense, Nibelung was amplified by Forbidden Knowledge (Abyss), but before that? How does this make sense at all bro

Oh yeah let's just say Nibelung and Sovereign are Universal+ too just like Phanes and the Shades, Nibelung's best feat before that is literally creating the sun and the 3 moons 😭

That's why, the 4 Shades created by Phanes is only planetary at best. Not Universal+
 
So, even though Nibelung and the Sovereign Dragons were able to fight Low 2-C beings for 40 years, doesn't that actually make them Low 2-C because they were 4-C beings? If they were able to fight Low 2-C beings for 40 years, then they weren't really just 4-C beings.
 
Damn, the thread is going to get stretched into 11 pages again. I will make one last summary arguments for the mods and that's all.
Primordial One is called as "Master of Fortuna" and the fate he controls is called "Musicia Mundana". The same musicia mundana that supposedly controls every operations in the universe and the rules that governs all things.
But the prophet's fell proclamation left the Sebastos not in despair, but rather ignited in him wild fantasies.
He locked himself in the depths of his imperial palace, searching for a flaw in the Master of Fortuna's Musica Mundana.
Click to expand...
Musicia Mundana is also explained like this in the scan.
...Imagine a harp, where every physical entity in the world corresponds to a single one of its fine strings... Magnificent music comes not from a single string, but the resonance of all strings... This is the music we call Musica Mundana...
Click to expand...
Primordial One's fake sky is also explained like this
"Can fortune tellers read the skeins of fate?"
The fortune teller then explained the underlying principles. Put simply, it's something like this:
In our world, the stars are the heavenly strings by which humans are bound.
Click to expand...
Also musica mundana being universal laws and what not are just myth and assumptions when it was researched by newer generations.
Regarding "Fortuna"... Myth, proverbs, and poetry are all that we have compiled so far in connection to "Fortuna." These findings deviate significantly from initial expectations... At best, they could be described as vague inferences and a priori assertions, bereft of quantifiability or scientific rigor. They appear exceedingly rudimentary and primitive when compared to the world-formula. Furthermore......As expected, this seems to be an attempt to make up for some shortfall. The ancients even made no small amount of errors in their selection of materials. This was unavoidable... Aside from analysis of the will and the "Seal of Chymical Marriage," there was hardly any utility to be found... When faced with the fact that the ancients were deceived by such falsehoods for a thousand years, one can only wonder if it was a matter of faith or folly...
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So, it's pretty clear that the whole musica mundana is not universal. Moreover, the people who said and wrote about musica mundana has no idea about the universe at all since they were born and lived inside the eggshell through their whole lives.

Moreover, the fake sky covered the planet and in every images, it's pretty clear, the egg shell is not universe size. The fake sky exist just above the atmosphere.
From outside view
Inside View

Teyvat is repeatedly described as a planet by reliable characters like neuvillete and skirk. And the fake sky is to protect Teyvat planet and that's why it's not possible for the eggshell to be universe size.
Skirk: I have to agree. It's a strange use of a planet's primordial waters just to raise an All-Devouring Narwhal.
Click to expand...
Neuvillette: But so long as those primordial energies remain within them, I could use the ancient dragons' authority to grant them true "blood," after the fashion in which life was first brought into being on this planet.
Click to expand...
Skirk: It is the authority of the planet's primordial dragons, but with something very similar to a god's "curse" mixed in... It's quite a novel blend.
Click to expand...
Realistically speaking, however, if a profound universe full of life exists, why hasn't any of that life made contact with Teyvat?
Maybe the universe has been constantly trying to infiltrate Teyvat, or maybe a higher power created borders to protect this world.
Click to expand...
So it's pretty clear by now that egg shell is not universe size and muscia mundana is just a fancy name for fate controlled by Primordial One.

Here I've proved why with visual images and contexts. But the opposition only kept citing the sole scan which is only text without even trying to cross check facts with other avaliable informations. We need to cross check existing facts with each other to see if they are consistent. The scan can be take at face value only when everything is correct and no other conflicting idea arises.
 
AsterReal said:
So, even though Nibelung and the Sovereign Dragons were able to fight Low 2-C beings for 40 years, doesn't that actually make them Low 2-C because they were 4-C beings? If they were able to fight Low 2-C beings for 40 years, then they weren't really just 4-C beings.
Click to expand...
And why are they Low 2-C beings in the first place? They are not, Istaroth who's at best planetary is stretched to be Universal+, that's the entire problem here
 
Voidnether said:
I don't think you actually got the point, Phanes SHOULDN'T even be Universal+ in the first place, because of what? He created the 4 Shades that's SUPPOSEDLY Universal+ that helped him fight PLANETARY LEVEL beings like Sovereign and Nibelung who created a sun and 3 moons?
Click to expand...
Thats just an upscale for those dragons because those dragons is just that strong, simple as that.

If we talk about "created", based on Istaroth's prayer song, Phanes is more like "Brought" them to Teyvat not really created even though it was said "created" Because Istaroth was never born yet she gave birth to herself at the moment of her birth.
Voidnether said:
Are we deadass? Like, do you forgot why Phanes even came to Teyvat? It was to seek refuge against the Abyss,
Click to expand...
Never confirmed to be like that btw
Voidnether said:
Istaroth who's at best planetary is stretched to be Universal+, that's the entire problem here
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Thats why i said:
Sahlwrld said:
but it is also a refusal to believe, arrogant and also ignorant because they hate this verse.
Click to expand...
For those who agree with the crt
 
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Weaver261 said:
Also musica mundana being universal laws and what not are just myth and assumptions when it was researched by newer generations.
Click to expand...
They appear exceedingly rudimentary and primitive when compared to the world-formula.
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The text you given is from Tower of Ipsissimus which is a tower literally belong to the Narzissenkreuz Ordo.

The term "Fortuna" from ancient remurians is too old for them so it doesn't match what is currently available, but i doesn't mean that ancient remurians were wrong. In fact, They're talking about something similar to Phobos, something that can evade fate. That's why they'll talk about Phobos at the end.

Because phobos was ALSO a Music too.
Weaver261 said:
Moreover, the people who said and wrote about musica mundana has no idea about the universe at all since they were born and lived inside the eggshell through their whole lives.
Click to expand...
Doesn't mean they don't have their knowledge about the Universe.

Laws of the universe interact with one another, creating this wondrous world. Seven elements of the world come together, weaving your journey. Through this ancient and mythical practice, can you create your own world with all things you've gathered on your journey? — Alchemy
Click to expand...
 
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Well, joke aside, both sides please summerise your points, i will try to evaluate it in about 5 years from now
 
Vietthai96 said:
Well, joke aside, both sides please summerise your points, i will try to evaluate it in about 5 years from now
Click to expand...
This is my summary
Weaver261 said:
Damn, the thread is going to get stretched into 11 pages again. I will make one last summary arguments for the mods and that's all.
Primordial One is called as "Master of Fortuna" and the fate he controls is called "Musicia Mundana". The same musicia mundana that supposedly controls every operations in the universe and the rules that governs all things.

Musicia Mundana is also explained like this in the scan.

Primordial One's fake sky is also explained like this

Also musica mundana being universal laws and what not are just myth and assumptions when it was researched by newer generations.

So, it's pretty clear that the whole musica mundana is not universal. Moreover, the people who said and wrote about musica mundana has no idea about the universe at all since they were born and lived inside the eggshell through their whole lives.

Moreover, the fake sky covered the planet and in every images, it's pretty clear, the egg shell is not universe size. The fake sky exist just above the atmosphere.
From outside view
Inside View

Teyvat is repeatedly described as a planet by reliable characters like neuvillete and skirk. And the fake sky is to protect Teyvat planet and that's why it's not possible for the eggshell to be universe size.




So it's pretty clear by now that egg shell is not universe size and muscia mundana is just a fancy name for fate controlled by Primordial One.

Here I've proved why with visual images and contexts. But the opposition only kept citing the sole scan which is only text without even trying to cross check facts with other avaliable informations. We need to cross check existing facts with each other to see if they are consistent. The scan can be take at face value only when everything is correct and no other conflicting idea arises.
Click to expand...
I couldn't get the scan quotes inside here, check original reply to see scan contexts

Also last debunk for this
Sahlwrld said:
The term "Fortuna" from ancient remurians is too old for them so it doesn't match what is currently available, but i doesn't mean that ancient remurians were wrong. In fact, They're talking about something similar to Phobos, something that can evade fate. That's why they'll talk about Phobos at the end.

Because phobos was ALSO a Music too.
Click to expand...
The text literally said Regarding "Fortuna"...
Phobos is the plan of Remus to avoid fated destruction and destiny of humanity where destiny is called as "Fortuna" by Remurians. Fortuna and Phobos are not the same. Also a lot of words in the books and poems are flowery langauge sometimes. It should not be taken at face value unless a fact supporting it
 
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My side:
Sahlwrld said:
not only does it not prove that the heavenly principles do not have a universal framework but it is also a refusal to believe, arrogant and also ignorant because they hate this verse.

Even though the evidence is clearly saying that they do have it.
普世音律即是本源的音律。一切音律因之而起,因之而终。虚假与真实的星象(即内与外、下与上的星象,优恩尼娅会向你们详述这部分内容), 季节与时岁的往复,被划定的元素,宇宙中的一切都遵循这种音律的秩序运行…

(Universal music is the fundamental rhythm. All rhythms arise from it and end from it. The illusory and real celestial phenomena (i.e., inner and outer, lower and upper celestial phenomena, which Uegertia will explain in detail), the cycle of seasons and years, the defined elements—everything in the universe operates according to the order of this rhythm...)


……这里,你们应当注意普世音律与法图纳之间的关联。后者包含于前者, 前者却不等同于后者。任何规格与法图纳相近的音律,均可被称作普世音律,因为其自身便与一个世界等同………

正如卡西奥多此前向你们讲授过的那样,我们所谈论的「法图纳」与至尊并无………后者以前者为名,前者实为主宰万物普遍现象的「规则」,即是奴仆口中的「命运」………

(Here, you should note the connection between universal music and Fortuna. The latter is contained within the former, but the former is not identical to the latter. Any musical scale similar to Fortuna can be called universal music, because it is itself equivalent to a world…

As Cassiodor previously taught you, the “Fortuna” we speak of is not the same as the Supreme One… The latter takes its name from the former; the former is actually the “rule” that governs all universal phenomena, which is what the servants call “fate”…)

………凡灵音律即是俗世的音律。凡人与诸神的音律并无不同,均可被归为此类,因为它们的本质都是普世音律敲击灵魂质体的和音…

……想象一架竖琴,世间每一个实体都对应着这竖琴上的一根细微的弦丝 …………那宏伟的乐声并非来自单独的琴弦,而是来自所有琴弦的共振……这样的乐曲便是我们所说的普世音律………

(…The music of mortals is the music of the mundane world. The music of mortals and gods is no different; both can be categorized into this type, because their essence is the harmony of universal music striking the soul…

…Imagine a harp; every entity in the world corresponds to a tiny string on this harp… The magnificent music does not come from a single string, but from the resonance of all the strings… Such music is what we call universal music…)

they be doing like..
"Yeah they say that, But did they ever show him doing that? If he could do that, then why didn't he do this to prevent it from happening? If he truly can do that, then this won't happen"
like.. do they ever heard of Plot-Induced Stupidity?

And i'll say this again, i am 100% for sure that those who agree with this crt ARE NOT understand what they're talking about nor about these things and that previous CRT.

So THIS crt are onto Nothing and debunked absolutely NOTHING. Yeah, you heard me.
Click to expand...
That universe-sized egshell is not from me (i dont even believe it yet).

Now, the "Musica Mundana" is the authority of reason that the Heavenly Principles had who's the master of the Four Shades including Istaroth that we talked about in the previous crt regarding the Low 2-C, the OP trying to say is this Authority doesn't have universal framework while we already have the concrete evidence from the original language that they do have universal framework and has been consistently said to be so.

That princess of (...) answered thusly:
"You speak of the universal law created in heaven, the divine laws established in the beginning."
"No one has seen the eternal law, yet it governs all."
"One may only bow down and worship Vaana of the heavenly spirits — no arrogation, deception, or trickery is permitted."
"If one dares to imitate the forbidden arts, only calamity awaits at the edge of divine knowledge." — Scroll of Streaming Song
Click to expand...
Laws of the universe interact with one another, creating this wondrous world. Seven elements of the world come together, weaving your journey. Through this ancient and mythical practice, can you create your own world with all things you've gathered on your journey? — Alchemy Description
Click to expand...
世音律即是本源的音律。一切音律因之而起,因之而终。虚假与真实的星象(即内与外、下与上的星象,优恩尼娅会向你们详述这部分内容), 季节与时岁的往复,被划定的元素,宇宙中的一切都遵循这种音律的秩序运行…

(Universal music is the fundamental rhythm. All rhythms arise from it and end from it. The illusory and real celestial phenomena (i.e., inner and outer, lower and upper celestial phenomena, which Uegertia will explain in detail), the cycle of seasons and years, the defined elements—everything in the universe operates according to the order of this rhythm...)


……这里,你们应当注意普世音律与法图纳之间的关联。后者包含于前者, 前者却不等同于后者。任何规格与法图纳相近的音律,均可被称作普世音律,因为其自身便与一个世界等同………

正如卡西奥多此前向你们讲授过的那样,我们所谈论的「法图纳」与至尊并无………后者以前者为名,前者实为主宰万物普遍现象的「规则」,即是奴仆口中的「命运」………

(Here, you should note the connection between universal music and Fortuna. The latter is contained within the former, but the former is not identical to the latter. Any musical scale similar to Fortuna can be called universal music, because it is itself equivalent to a world…

As Cassiodor previously taught you, the “Fortuna” we speak of is not the same as the Supreme One… The latter takes its name from the former; the former is actually the “rule” that governs all universal phenomena, which is what the servants call “fate”…)

………凡灵音律即是俗世的音律。凡人与诸神的音律并无不同,均可被归为此类,因为它们的本质都是普世音律敲击灵魂质体的和音…

……想象一架竖琴,世间每一个实体都对应着这竖琴上的一根细微的弦丝 …………那宏伟的乐声并非来自单独的琴弦,而是来自所有琴弦的共振……这样的乐曲便是我们所说的普世音律………

(…The music of mortals is the music of the mundane world. The music of mortals and gods is no different; both can be categorized into this type, because their essence is the harmony of universal music striking the soul…

…Imagine a harp; every entity in the world corresponds to a tiny string on this harp… The magnificent music does not come from a single string, but from the resonance of all the strings… Such music is what we call universal music…)
Click to expand...
 
Oke but like, can we not linking evidence to Genshin Impact wiki please? I would like to evaluate direct scan taken from in-game
 
Weaver261 said:
The text literally said Regarding "Fortuna"...
Phobos is the plan of Remus to avoid fated destruction and destiny of humanity where destiny is called as "Fortuna" by Remurians. Fortuna and Phobos are not the same.
Click to expand...
Fortuna isn't something false whatsoever, its another word for fate and "rule" that governs all.
 
Vietthai96 said:
Oke but like, can we not linking evidence to Genshin Impact wiki please? I would like to evaluate direct scan taken from in-game
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The descriptions i gave is a description from the game directly, so no need to worry.
 
Sahlwrld said:
My side:

That universe-sized egshell is not from me (i dont even believe it yet).

Now, the "Musica Mundana" is the authority of reason that the Heavenly Principles had who's the master of the Four Shades including Istaroth that we talked about in the previous crt regarding the Low 2-C, the OP trying to say is this Authority doesn't have universal framework while we already have the concrete evidence from the original language that they do have universal framework and has been consistently said to be so.
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Scan 1

Scan 2

Scan 3

All of these are the proofs that The Heavenly Principles alongside the Four Shades are consistently stated having a universal framework laws.
 
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