God-Tier Upgrade (Genshin Impact)

[AsterReal]

Also, is two staff votes is enough to apply anything here? or three votes

If I remember correctly, at least 3 votes are required for controversial issues such as Conceptual Manipulation or Tier 2 and 1.

 

[MSahla]

If I remember correctly, at least 3 votes are required for controversial issues such as Conceptual Manipulation or Tier 2 and 1.

So this crt is 2 then? If so then i need one more

 

[ZENZUYA]

I do agree by the ues thing.

But i do not agree if we say that the Sinners can be scaled to Shades, they alr have a different Universal Energy in the first place

• Rhinedottir alr become a Concept of "Life" itself
and
• The Sinners only imitating The Four Shades with a large portion of abyss energy.

The only responsible answer to get The Five Sinners scaled to god tier is to say that they have feats above Sovereign individually.

 

[Puppet43]

Rhine eating Naberius' heart is a good feat for that justification

Is more based of the fact that yk, Gold's physicalls should be equal to Shade physicalls, since she could hurt/eat and munch a physical hearth

 

[FentyBeauty]

there’s also stuff that i’m like iffy abt for nibelung n surtalogi

Intelligence: Genius (is the Great leader of the Old World and once made the Three Moons of Teyvat to govern the world and its cycles in his absence) | Genius combatant (He's strong enough to wounded the Heavenly Principles in their fight in the Funerary Year to the point that the Heavenly Principles could no longer use their absolute authority of the World

honestlu like i feel him using forbidden knowledge or dragons being responsible for advanced tech could be something to add for the first one

the second one i honestly have no clue if we give genius & above for combat stuff anymore bc i saw ppl say that combat skill is like too variable to give it a rating?? but if we still do then i feel like that needs rewording for the “he’s strong enough to wounded the heavenly principles” too bc that just looks like it has more to do with his powers and not smarts

Intelligence: Extraordinary Genius (He mastered the Seven-Shifting Serpent almost instantly and was able to effortlessly cycle through all seven elements on his first attempt While ordinary performers could spend months practicing the shifting of a single Element just to scrape by as street entertainers) | Extraordinary Genius combatant (Surtalogi has traveled across the universe in search of an opponent who can best him. In his travels, he had encountered enemies that amassed resources and manpower to defeat him, A weapon forged using the pooled resources of an entire star system. A god manifested by the unity of a whole civilization's beliefs. The mightiest warrior among billions, All of them were crushed without him even going all-out. If it was a wicked beast, he ate its flesh. If it was a god or a machine, he absorbed its energy. If it was a warrior or mage, he played with his food — forcing them to use every trick in their book, then cutting them down once he tired of the charade.)

can we even get extraordinary genius from mastering a spell that like ordinary ppl (street performers) cant do bc thats like lowkey giving gifted or maybe genius bc he mastered abyssal energy to also master the khaenriah trick thing idk

same for the combat too bc idk if this site still gives genius or above stuff for combat

 

[MSahla]

there’s also stuff that i’m like iffy abt for nibelung n surtalogi

honestlu like i feel him using forbidden knowledge or dragons being responsible for advanced tech could be something to add for the first one

Maybe i'll touch that to something again.

the second one i honestly have no clue if we give genius & above for combat stuff anymore bc i saw ppl say that combat skill is like too variable to give it a rating?? but if we still do then i feel like that needs rewording for the “he’s strong enough to wounded the heavenly principles” too bc that just looks like it has more to do with his powers and not smarts

I mean if we look at who's the Heavenly Principles really closer, almost impossible to harm them.

And it was a fight anyway between Dragon King Nibelung vs Heavenly Principles. And despite being lost, he strong enough to wounded him.

The Heavenly Principles can easily purified Abyssal Power with their Divine Nails, like even Rhinedottir lost her Abyssal Power and not a madness, crazy woman again something like that after she ate Naberius' heart because Naberius' power erased her abyssal power.

Yet, Dragon King Nibelung is strong enough to wounded the Heavenly Principlss.

can we even get extraordinary genius from mastering a spell that like ordinary ppl (street performers) cant do bc thats like lowkey giving gifted or maybe genius bc he mastered abyssal energy to also master the khaenriah trick thing idk

Ordinary people can do that but it needs months just for a single element, while he mastered all seven instantly on his first try after he knows how to use abyssal power.

same for the combat too bc idk if this site still gives genius or above stuff for combat

I don't think theres a problem with his combatant, his combat feat good enough for that.

 

[IStar0thh]

For the Five Sinners part, thanks to Rhinedottir who's one of the five sinners merged herself with the Ruler of Life Naberius and become one of the Four Shades now so the Sinners can be scaled to the Four Shades.​

I think this is a better arg to put Sinner at this lvl:
All Sinners should be relative to each other, with them having feats like Gold eating Naberius and +++

I dont think Rhine eating Naberius' heart is a good feat for that justification because Rhine is just lucky found her heart in a random dungeon +++

It’s hilarious how Puppet literally quotes the exact same thing you mentioned in the OP, and yet you disagree with your own point.

Rhine eats Naberius’s heart and becomes a Shader → you claim the Sinners escalate to Shaders for this exact reason → Puppet says the same thing → and you disagree with Puppet. Cinema.

Sinner like Surtalogi which is stated to be many times stronger than an entire world even when he alone, that includes all seven sovereigns within the world.

Rhinedottir 500 years ago who brought destruction to the whole Universe.

i agree that all of them should be relative to each other because they divided among themselves a very large amount of abyssal power.

You’re literally taking the quote out of context to justify this ridiculous scaling. Here’s the full text:

“Master, since you mentioned that your group once divided enough Abyssal power amongst yourselves to overturn an entire world — or at least a sixth of it...”

It already starts off shaky, because Skirk isn’t even sure it’s referring to the whole world. "Or at least a sixth of it"
Then:

“How is it that you are now many times stronger than an entire world, even when alone?”

Skirk explicitly says that Surtalogi is now much stronger than a whole world. Keyword: Surtalogi. Not ALL the Sinners.

The Sinners continue scaling at the planetary level until you prove otherwise.
Literally, your argument is completely contradictory and makes no logical sense.
-
Also, I feel like I’m playing Impact Genshin, because… since when was it ever said that Rhinedottir brought the destruction of the entire universe?

 

[MSahla]

Rhine eats Naberius’s heart and becomes a Shader → you claim the Sinners escalate to Shaders for this exact reason → Puppet says the same thing → and you disagree with Puppet. Cinema.

This is funny because i only dont think the feat of Rhinedottir eating Naberius' heart can be the justification, other things i agree lmao.

Skirk explicitly says that Surtalogi is now much stronger than a whole world. Keyword: Surtalogi. Not ALL the Sinners.

This is also funny because Skirk's basically talking about Surtalogi and the other sinners, she ask Surtalogi because she's with him in that moment and doing conversation lmao.

The Sinners are relative to each other.

your argument is completely contradictory and makes no logical sense.

Thats your reading comprehension problem i guess.

-
Also, I feel like I’m playing Impact Genshin, because… since when was it ever said that Rhinedottir brought the destruction of the entire universe?

Rhinedottir is one of the mastermind behind the Cataclysm occured.

You have arrived in Teyvat - a fantasy world where the seven elements flow and converge.
In the distant past, the Archons granted mortals unique elemental abilities. With the help of such powers, people formed a bountiful homeland out of the wilderness.
However, 500 years ago, the collapse of an ancient civilization turned the universe upside down...
Though the calamity the world suffered has ceased, peace has yet to be restored.

Genshin Official Wiki

 

[IStar0thh]

This is funny because i only dont think the feat of Rhinedottir eating Naberius' heart can be the justification, other things i agree lmao.

You don’t agree, and yet that was literally your main argument in the OP. Or did you not realize that the only reason Rhinedottir is considered a Shader is precisely because of that?

This is also funny because Skirk's basically talking about Surtalogi and the other sinners, she ask Surtalogi because she's with him in that moment and doing conversation lmao.

The first part of the sentence was referring to the group, the second part was not. My point is that she specifically says Surtalogi has already become much stronger, not all the Sinners.

The Sinners are relative to each other.

They were comparable when they "shared" the Abyssal energy. Or do you think that after Surtalogi becomes “10x stronger,” the other Sinners just magically power up too?

Rhinedottir is one of the mastermind behind the Cataclysm occured.

Genshin Official Wiki

Ohh, so you meant she was one of those responsible for that allegorical quote about “turning the universe upside down”? Because for a second, I thought you said "Rhinedottir brought the destruction of the universe"

My bad — I didn’t know the universe could flip over.

Thats your reading comprehension problem i guess.

Hahaha, sure ig.

 

[MSahla]

The first part of the sentence was referring to the group, the second part was not. My point is that she specifically says Surtalogi has already become much stronger, not all the Sinners.

read again.

Skirk: "Master, since you mentioned that your group once divided enough Abyssal power amongst yourselves to overturn an entire world — or at least a sixth of it..."
Skirk: "How is it that you are now many times stronger than an entire world, even when alone?"
Surtalogi: "Did I save an idiot back then?"

She's literally talking about the sinners, and since her master is one of them thats why she's asking him. Lol

The second sentence from Skirk is the continuation of the first one, you see "or at least sixth of it..."

 

[FentyBeauty]

Maybe i'll touch that to something again.

king!

I mean if we look at who's the Heavenly Principles really closer, almost impossible to harm them.

And it was a fight anyway between Dragon King Nibelung vs Heavenly Principles. And despite being lost, he strong enough to wounded him.

The Heavenly Principles can easily purified Abyssal Power with their Divine Nails, like even Rhinedottir lost her Abyssal Power and not a madness, crazy woman again something like that after she ate Naberius' heart because Naberius' power erased her abyssal power.

Yet, Dragon King Nibelung is strong enough to wounded the Heavenly Principlss.

honestly like im not even sure if that’s like still something that has to do with being smart in a fight bc he’s just very powerful with the abyssal energy that he could stand up against the heavenly principles from that point

it would make sense for him to get his lick back by using something else more strong bc he got clocked by the heavenly principles before

Ordinary people can do that but it needs months just for a single element, while he mastered all seven instantly on his first try after he knows how to use abyssal power.

its still kinda giving gifted at minimum if he’s a rlly fast learner and he can master an advanced trick tjat ordinary ppl can’t do even with months of practice

Gifted: Characters who demonstrate high reasoning ability, can master difficult concepts with few repetitions, and display high performance capability or notable mastery in intellectual or specific academic fields, which makes them equivalent to real-world experts in these areas.

I don't think theres a problem with his combatant, his combat feat good enough for that.

no like it’s not abt if his combat thing is good enough for it

u just can’t list combat stuff as genius or i guess as anything bc actually i just remembered it was being discussed in this page n like also viet said we wouldn’t rate it as anything so u’d just list it in a separate box

 

[MSahla]

no like it’s not abt if his combat thing is good enough for it

u just can’t list combat stuff as genius or i guess as anything bc actually i just remembered it was being discussed in this page n like also viet said we wouldn’t rate it as anything so u’d just list it in a separate box

Well it said

Characters who can turn even the slightly possible situations or even impossible situations in their favor with their skills without going any developments or their opponent going any reduction. Able to masters all kind of martial arts, fighting styles, weapons in the world, somewhat surpass real world upper limit, can easily develop new fighting style on the fly to combat opponents, capable of predicting, analyzing opponents combat abilities and combat informations with extreme precision and accuracy akin to precognition, creating complex combat/fighting strategy in short amount of time under heavy pressure, etc...

This is pretty much what Surtalogi did actually.

A weapon forged using the pooled resources of an entire star system. A god manifested by the unity of a whole civilization's beliefs. The mightiest warrior among billions, All of them were crushed without him even going all-out. If it was a wicked beast, he ate its flesh. If it was a god or a machine, he absorbed its energy. If it was a warrior or mage, he played with his food — forcing them to use every trick in their book, then cutting them down once he tired of the charade.

He mastered all weapons of course just like skirk and martial arts.

Surtalogi's combat style incorporated many techniques from other sources. To him, that is what it means to be a true martial artist: constantly learning and adapting

Maybe i can at least give Genius to the first one, because theres also another reason besides he mastered the seven shifting serpent.

 

[Puppet43]

Rhine eats Naberius’s heart and becomes a Shader → you claim the Sinners escalate to Shaders for this exact reason → Puppet says the same thing → and you disagree with Puppet. Cinema.

If i say anything there a high probability that Sahl would disagree (even if he said the same)

 

[Puppet43]

Or do you think that after Surtalogi becomes “10x stronger,”

Currently, Surta hasn't grown up in power (bassicly there no evidence than none of the sinner grew stronger after the cataclysm, outside of Gold) the quote you are reffering, in Skirk's Story Character is just a "What if" Skirk, in the CN version"
Master what if, lets say u got 1/6 of a power to destroy a country, how did you become stronger?
So bassicly Skirk didnt even fully know Surta's capabilities (And btw Surta quote a fruit becoming 10 to 100 times stronger than the tree is just flowery language, straight up)

 

[The_Tetromino_King]

I don't agree with the archons being 4-C, they simply have no feat and their AP should be comparable to EI who isn't touching planet levels any sooner.

A 10% Rerir is also comparable to the sovereigns since he is stronger than the moon goddesses.

 

[The_Tetromino_King]

The Sinners continue scaling at the planetary level until you prove otherwise.
Literally, your argument is completely contradictory and makes no logical sense.
-
Also, I feel like I’m playing Impact Genshin, because… since when was it ever said that Rhinedottir brought the destruction of the entire universe?

If we go by this reasoning then literally no character will bescaling past Planetary since no sovereign can destroy teyvat by their own powers except by prep and no shade is stated to destroy teyvat, they are only stated to be stronger than the archon. So only Surtalogi, P.O and Nibelung getting 4-C

 

[The_Tetromino_King]

I do agree by the ues thing.

But i do not agree if we say that the Sinners can be scaled to Shades, they alr have a different Universal Energy in the first place

They should be by the fact, they can destroy the world. there is 0 statements that the shade can destroy the world. Rerir at 10% is stronger than moon goddess.

• Rhinedottir alr become a Concept of "Life" itself

This didn't even make her stronger, it only gave her the ability to create life. As she perfected the ambition to create life.

and
• The Sinners only imitating The Four Shades with a large portion of abyss energy.

and? does that mean they are weaker?

The only responsible answer to get The Five Sinners scaled to god tier is to say that they have feats above Sovereign individually.

each sinner alone can destroy teyvat, no sovereign by their own strength is stated so. The fact that 10% rerir is already considered a far more dangerous threat than both Narwhal who could rival Neuvillette and Gosoythot who could tank Mavuika with Ronova powers.

 

[The_Tetromino_King]

Currently, Surta hasn't grown up in power (bassicly there no evidence than none of the sinner grew stronger after the cataclysm, outside of Gold) the quote you are reffering, in Skirk's Story Character is just a "What if" Skirk, in the CN version"
Master what if, lets say u got 1/6 of a power to destroy a country, how did you become stronger?
So bassicly Skirk didnt even fully know Surta's capabilities (And btw Surta quote a fruit becoming 10 to 100 times stronger than the tree is just flowery language, straight up)

"After seeking the strongest warriors the universe has to offer, there may no longer be any further strength for me to seek."

"How did that story go again? 'Distance is measured by the heart, and my heart is slightly larger than the universe.'"

"Once the whole universe becomes my front lawn, all I shall see from then on will be two anthills waging pint-sized war... I shall be in my prime then — and at my most weary."

 

[MSahla]

A 10% Rerir is also comparable to the sovereigns since he is stronger than the moon goddesses.

Cap and Columbina isn't even full power yet

, it only gave her the ability to create life. As she perfected the ambition to create life.

she become the Concept itself buddy

The fact that 10% rerir is already considered a far more dangerous threat than both Narwhal who could rival Neuvillette and Gosoythot who could tank Mavuika with Ronova powers.

Hyperbole and hyperbole, Lauma didn't know anything.

She never go to the cataclysm that makes the whole universe turned upside down. Nor the Great War of Vengeance that brings destruction to the entire planet

 

[The_Tetromino_King]

Cap and Columbina isn't even full power yet

they were in luna 2.

Spoiler

It is literally stated the power of 3 moons can't defeat rerir and Columbina was being overpowered despite having power stronger than in her 3rd harbringer form.

Spoiler

she become the Concept itself buddy

So? each sinner embodies unlimited Abyss.

Hyperbole and hyperbole, Lauma didn't know anything.

She never go to the cataclysm that makes the whole universe turned upside down. Nor the Great War of Vengeance that brings destruction to the entire planet

it's not just Lauma but the genshin narration confirms this and so did the traveler. According to them, this is the most important battle they ever faced and the traveler faced Skofnungr, Narwhal and goysothot.

 

[MSahla]

they were in luna 2.

It is literally stated the power of 3 moons can't defeat rerir and Columbina was being overpowered despite having power stronger than in her 3rd harbringer form.

While she already said the world keep taking her strength since her birth, and it is most likely because of the false sky that prevent her connected to the moon beyond the firmament.

it's not just Lauma but the genshin narration confirms this and so did the traveler. According to them, this is the most important battle they ever faced and the traveler faced Skofnungr, Narwhal and goysothot.

Duhh?? Of course its important because its a sinner they have to beat him, but that doesn't mean bros the biggest crisis the world's ever face, thats just bullshit, aint no one of them ever faced the Cataclysm with their own eyes.

 

[The_Tetromino_King]

While she already said the world keep taking her strength since her birth, and it is most likely because of the false sky that prevent her connected to the moon beyond the firmament.

She did get her strength back tho later on and even then they couldn't beat him, the 3 combined power of the moon is no match to a 10% rerir and this is the same power that could reshape the entire world which should make the moon goddesses comparable to the sovereigns, sinners and shades.

Duhh?? Of course its important because its a sinner they have to beat him, but that doesn't mean bros the biggest crisis the world's ever face, thats just bullshit, aint no one of them ever faced the Cataclysm with their own eyes.

The traveler did but that aside. I argued that Rerir at 10% is > Skofnungr, narwal and goysothot. would you agree with that?

 

[MSahla]

She did get her strength back tho later on

Yeah how much? Is it 100% I doubt so because the False Sky still exist. As long as the False Sky exist, Columbina will never be at her prime.

Skofnungr, narwal and goysothot.

All of these is Neuvillette's victims btw

 

[The_Tetromino_King]

All of these is Neuvillette's victims btw

Neuvi ass not beating someone whom eating ronova attacks as breakfast. The same being who called ronova death powers a false version of death

 

[MSahla]

Neuvi ass not beating someone whom eating ronova attacks as breakfast. The same being who called ronova death powers a false version of death

Pfftt
Neuvi at his prime is the same as his predescessor who was tanking All Four Shades and Heavenly Principles for 40 Years.

A tiny amount of Shades power ain't no make him lose lol

 

[The_Tetromino_King]

Pfftt
Neuvi at his prime is the same as his predescessor who was tanking All Four Shades and Heavenly Principles for 40 Years.

Faiiirrr

A tiny amount of Shades power ain't no make him lose lol

We don't know if it was a tiny amount tho lol it could be 100% could be 90, 50 or even 10% of her power i don't recall it ever mentioned it was her full power or just a small fraction of her power.

 

[Apex_Predator_GX]

Following.

 

[Godernet]

This looks fine.

 

[Puppet43]

So tier 4 God tiers accepted? (Traveler scales to 10% of this btw)

 

[MSahla]

So tier 4 God tiers accepted? (Traveler scales to 10% of this btw)

So what tier is that? And should i apply that on his certain keys

 

[Puppet43]

So what tier is that? And should i apply that on his certain keys

what u mean?

 

[PedjaTarzan]

what u mean?

to apply traveler scaling to nod krai key bro

 

[MSahla]

to apply traveler scaling to nod krai key bro

I think Nod-Krai key traveler should be on a seperate thread, not to mention were not in the end of Nod-Krai yet.

 

[MSahla]

This can be closed, i have already applied anything that is accepted here.

 

[Puppet43]

to apply traveler scaling to nod krai key bro

We dont even have that Key

 

[Hjdjdhf]

Same Tier ≠ Equal
Like Character A beat character B who performed Planet level feat, therefore Character A is Planet level too.

Well, you're right.