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Devil May Cry Discussion Thread

Ser_Hakim_Dayne said:
demons struggling to regenerate are regeneration negation when they are just evidence that their regeneration is just linked to their stamina
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Pure Demons doesn't have a statement of being tired... Weakened, yes. Sparda inflict a wound that even Beowulf couldn't Regen, Bolverk had a scar in the past prior fighting weakened Sparda. Mundus still having so much power to kill Dante in DMC 1, but dude is weakened and his regeneration got slow because Dante using his father power. If it does tied to stamina then Vergil would've been sliced in two at the end of DMC 3.


Sid with Abigail power show that he could regenerate from puddle of blood, yet Dante destroy him completely without him being tired or having stamina issue.
 
Tanin_iver said:
So a High Tier Demon who also get turned into a Devil Arm that is known to reconstitute from spiritual matter is also somehow incapable of regening an eye?
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There isn't even any evidence that High Tier Demons can regenerate their injuries when they return from their Devils Arms forms (as far as I know).

Tanin_iver said:
But fodder Demons can regen from much worse?
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What are you referring to?
 
Thehunter077 said:
Sid with Abigail power show that he could regenerate from puddle of blood, yet Dante destroy him completely without him being tired or having stamina issue.
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Because Sid no longer had Abigail's powers.

Thehunter077 said:
Pure Demons doesn't have a statement of being tired... Weakened, yes. Sparda inflict a wound that even Beowulf couldn't Regen, Bolverk had a scar in the past prior fighting weakened Sparda. Mundus still having so much power to kill Dante in DMC 1, but dude is weakened and his regeneration got slow because Dante using his father power.
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As I told Tanin, it may just be a question of a limitation of regeneration, it is not necessarily regeneration negation.

Thehunter077 said:
f it does tied to stamina then Vergil would've been sliced in two at the end of DMC 3.
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No, because Dante's goal was not to dismember or completely cut off his brother.
 
Ser_Hakim_Dayne said:
No, because Dante's goal was not to dismember or completely cut off his brother.
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Dante literally says he would kill Vergil if its necessary, the scene itself blantantly show Rebellion slice through Vergil torso, he would stop Vergil no matter what it cost because when it comes someone put human realm at danger, Dante ain't messing around.

Dante's goal clearly stop Vergil with any means necessary, Vergil is the last person you want to negotiate with due his pride.
 
Thehunter077 said:
Dante literally says he would kill Vergil if its necessary, the scene itself blantantly show Rebellion slice through Vergil torso, he would stop Vergil no matter what it cost because when it comes someone put human realm at danger, Dante ain't messing around.

Dante's goal clearly stop Vergil with any means necessary, Vergil is the last person you want to negotiate with due his pride.
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Dante literally tried to save him from his fall. If Dante had been completely in bloodlust, he would have completely cut Vergil in two (like Sephiroth did to Vergil in their Death Battle) or even outright decapitated him.
 
Ser_Hakim_Dayne said:
Dante literally tried to save him from his fall. If Dante had been completely in bloodlust, he would have completely cut Vergil in two (like Sephiroth did to Vergil in their Death Battle) or even outright decapitated him.
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And he did cut Vergil in two. And Vergil had no visible injury.
 
Ser_Hakim_Dayne said:
If the regeneration works properly, you're not injured.
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You mean like how we can visually see with our own eyes in the cutscenes of the final fight that their regen is working just fine and they do not dismember or even cut off their fingers?
So yeah, they aren't injured in that sense.
 
Tanin_iver said:
You mean like how we can visually see with our own eyes in the cutscenes of the final fight that their regen is working just fine and they do not dismember or even cut off their fingers?
So yeah, they aren't injured in that sense.
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Their regeneration doesn't work well because they are injured.

At the end of their second fight in DMC3, Dante and Vergil were defeated by Arkham because of the damage inflicted by their swords a few minutes earlier (as explicitly stated by Arkham), which means that at that moment their regeneration was not working properly (and therefore the same at the end of their first fight for Dante and third fight for Vergil).

In DMC5, Vergil did not want to face Dante the first time because the latter was injured due to his fight against Urizen a few minutes earlier (as explicitly stated by Vergil), which means that his regeneration was not working very well at that time (and that was probably also the case for Dante and Vergil when Nero confronted them).

This therefore means either that they have a regeneration negation (which is the most far-fetched argument because it is never explicitly stated) or that their regeneration is indeed linked to their stamina (which is the most logical and safe argument because it is always at the end of a fight that we see Dante and Vergil's regeneration struggling).
 
Ser_Hakim_Dayne said:
Their regeneration doesn't work well because they are injured.

At the end of their second fight in DMC3, Dante and Vergil were defeated by Arkham because of the damage inflicted by their swords a few minutes earlier (as explicitly stated by Arkham), which means that at that moment their regeneration was not working properly (and therefore the same at the end of their first fight for Dante and third fight for Vergil).

In DMC5, Vergil did not want to face Dante the first time because the latter was injured due to his fight against Urizen a few minutes earlier (as explicitly stated by Vergil), which means that his regeneration was not working very well at that time (and that was probably also the case for Dante and Vergil when Nero confronted them).
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Not really, they are explicitly stated to be weaker, not incapable of regenning altogether anywhere. Infact they are depicted to be debuffed so much that Arkham soloed them. But did they at all stop regenning in the entire fight. The answer is obviously no as we can visually see that. By their perspective the opponent can be injured and even beaten or killed cos they are equals.
Ser_Hakim_Dayne said:
This therefore means either that they have a regeneration negation (which is the most far-fetched argument because it is never explicitly stated) or that their regeneration is indeed linked to their stamina (which is the most logical and safe argument because it is always at the end of a fight that we see Dante and Vergil's regeneration struggling).
Click to expand...
Not really, by your theory high tier demons lack regen for basic stuff like eyes all together. But then again demons gain power from taking and dishing damage and also somehow become weaker paradoxically?
For them to even beat their opponents they need to at least have abilities that null the opponents powers especially regen cos if they didn't they would just gain more power from taking damage.
 
Tanin_iver said:
Not really, they are explicitly stated to be weaker, not incapable of regenning altogether anywhere. Infact they are depicted to be debuffed so much that Arkham soloed them. But did they at all stop regenning in the entire fight. The answer is obviously no as we can visually see that. By their perspective the opponent can be injured and even beaten or killed cos they are equals.
Click to expand...
They are weaker because they are injured, as explicitly stated by Arkham (Arkham makes it clear to Vergil that he has the upper hand because of the beating he took, obviously referring to the sword blow Vergil received from Dante, because it was at that moment that he began to weaken) and Vergil (Vergil clearly told Dante to heal his injuries before facing him).

Also, it it were simply a matter of stamina, it would be even worse because it would mean they don't have that much endurance.

Tanin_iver said:
Not really, by your theory high tier demons lack regen for basic stuff like eyes all together. But then again demons gain power from taking and dishing damage and also somehow become weaker paradoxically?
For them to even beat their opponents they need to at least have abilities that null the opponents powers especially regen cos if they didn't they would just gain more power from taking damage.
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In the case of Vergil and Dante, this only applies in their demonic forms, and as far as demons are concerned in general, it can simply means that their empowerment can be overwhelmed and/or blitz by a vastly superior.

If they had a regen/empowerment nullification as you say, in that case their empowerment would be useless and wouldn't even have a reason to exist in their universe because demons mostly fight each other (Like, what's the point of this ability if it gets negated all the time?)
 
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Lol wtf are these arguements

I love when someone randomly comes in to challenge a pretty widely accepted standard and part of the verses power system through the sheer power of obtuseness alone.
 
You see, I have ignored all the evidence for your arguments Batman and not listened to any counter points to mine, therefore I can claim I am the more reasonable one.
 
Guys, I know we can be harsh with people when we disagree with them but lets relax a bit.


Also Hakim

"This therefore means either that they have a regeneration negation (which is the most far-fetched argument because it is never explicitly stated) or that their regeneration is indeed linked to their stamina (which is the most logical and safe argument because it is always at the end of a fight that we see Dante and Vergil's regeneration struggling)."

That's the worst argument you have made. Things don't need to be explicitly stated nor are we dumb enough that we need spoon-feed statements. Showings, feats, hints and some critical thinking are more than enough.

If we used that logic we would have a ton of problems, not only here but with basically every single verse in this wiki.

Now, I would insist you make a single post with your grievances regarding the whole stamina tied regen bs and we can talk them out or if no consensus is reached you are free to make a thread (like always) and it becomes a matter of convincing staff.
 
Ser_Hakim_Dayne said:
They are weaker because they are injured, as explicitly stated by Arkham (Arkham makes it clear to Vergil that he has the upper hand because of the beating he took, obviously referring to the sword blow Vergil received from Dante, because it was at that moment that he began to weaken) and Vergil (Vergil clearly told Dante to heal his injuries before facing him).

Also, it it were simply a matter of stamina, it would be even worse because it would mean they don't have that much endurance.
Click to expand...
Injured by each other's attacks yes. But did their regen slowed in the cutscenes or is it implied that they are unable to regen because of taking the beating, obviously no.
It is stated no where and neither do we visually or narratively see that their regen is slowed because of taking a beating or low stamina or low demonic power like you are trying to insist.
Ser_Hakim_Dayne said:
In the case of Vergil and Dante, this only applies in their demonic forms,
Click to expand...
This is explicitly not the case, tho.
Ser_Hakim_Dayne said:
and as far as demons are concerned in general, it can simply means that their empowerment can be overwhelmed and/or blitz by a vastly superior.
Click to expand...
Yeah and that is exactly what a layer is. Superior being with greater layers of regen neg bypasses it, duh.

Ser_Hakim_Dayne said:
If they had a regen/empowerment nullification as you say, in that case their empowerment would be useless and wouldn't even have a reason to exist in their universe because demons mostly fight each other (Like, what's the point of this ability if it gets negated all the time?)
Click to expand...
Against stronger or weaker demons, superiority of layers win.
Against comparable opponents it's a battle of attrition. Nothing too complicated.

It's quite simple really, you have to ignore a lot of established lore just to make regen tied to stamina or DE to make it work and even then it won't.
 
Tanin_iver said:
Injured by each other's attacks yes. But did their regen slowed in the cutscenes or is it implied that they are unable to regen because of taking the beating, obviously no.
It is stated no where and neither do we visually or narratively see that their regen is slowed because of taking a beating or low stamina or low demonic power like you are trying to insist.
Click to expand...
So you think they're injured from the hits they took, but their regeneration is still working perfectly? The whole point of regeneration is to heal injuries. Dante and Vergil were injured because their regeneration wasn't working properly.

Tanin_iver said:
Yeah and that is exactly what a layer is. Superior being with greater layers of regen neg bypasses it, duh.
Click to expand...
Or it could simply be that the devil powers they regain are just not huge enough to compete with the opponents they face, or that they get one-shotted before having any significant amp. You don't need to have a regeneration negation (assuming that all demons actually have regeneration).

Tanin_iver said:
Against stronger or weaker demons, superiority of layers win.
Against comparable opponents it's a battle of attrition. Nothing too complicated.
Click to expand...
This does not prove that there is regeneration negation either.
 
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Tony_di_bugalu said:
That's the worst argument you have made. Things don't need to be explicitly stated nor are we dumb enough that we need spoon-feed statements. Showings, feats, hints and some critical thinking are more than enough.
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I know, but not in this case, not when there is a much more logical alternative and literally nothing I've seen so far can prove 100% the regen neg
 
Ser_Hakim_Dayne said:
I know, but not in this case, not when there is a much more logical alternative and literally nothing I've seen so far can prove 100% the regen neg
Click to expand...
The problem is that the "logical alternative" doesn't make sense once you sit down and look at the verse

But meh, I didn't want to get involved in the discussion so ignore me (unless you want me to engage too then I can add my 2 cents).
 
Ser_Hakim_Dayne said:
You just keep saying I'm talking nonsense without providing any actual arguments lol
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I mean everyone else has done a good job responding to your arguements to be brutally honest, I don't see the need. You've already been told to either make a CRT or compile all your grievances into one post, so its like.... yeah. Seems everything is being handled.
 
If I am still not convinced I will do one yes, first I will wait for Tony to apply the new physiology page and then I will do a CRT to remove the Low Godly and maybe Mid Godly regen from the physiology page (except for the Sparda Bloodline) before doing a CRT on stamina/regeneration.
 
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I dont know why you take G1 blog arguments seriously, on purpose they cut context and cropped scans for DMC till they got exposed they were f*cking liars and debunked by this very place, why you entertain their arguments as if its a gospel

And thats not exclusive to that series only, plus even on the Clive one they proven themselves fake ass fans, you dont pull shit like "we are fans of this, but this other character wins" agenda then claim some stuff that shows you are reaching to get Dante seem beaten in some regards
 
BlackDarkness679 said:
I dont know why you take G1 blog arguments seriously, on purpose they cut context and cropped scans for DMC till they got exposed they were f*cking liars and debunked by this very place, why you entertain their arguments as if its a gospel

And thats not exclusive to that series only, plus even on the Clive one they proven themselves fake ass fans, you dont pull shit like "we are fans of this, but this other character wins" agenda then claim some stuff that shows you are reaching to get Dante seem beaten in some regards
Click to expand...
I don't take their blog as gospel truth, I just agree with them and Death Battle on the regeneration/stamina thing.
 
Also, I just thought of something, Hunter had talked about the case of Sid's regeneration with Abigail's powers in the anime to prove that Dante has regeneration negation, but in fact it literally proves the opposite.

Anime Dante is at very least comparable (if not superior) to Full Power Sparda, and Abigail is slightly inferior to Full Power Mundus (which supposedly has Low/Mid Godly regen), and the latter is itself inferior to Full Power Sparda.

And despite that, Dante couldn't even nullify Sid-Abigail's regeneration during their first confrontation.
 
Dante and Vergil as half demons had mid godly regen, why would full on demons lack that....also all demons have just their soul remaining after destroying their body, which you absorb to gain benefits out of that

Sometimes you have certain takes that i vant understand how you remotely get to these conclusions
 
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