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Lord of Mysteries Revisions (Part 4: Physiology and Cosmology Pages)

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SuperNova55555

SuperNova55555

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Alright, I’ll try and keep this short:

This one pretty much covers all the universal aspects in LOTM like Souls, Godhood and also layers—well, how we would address each layer.

Basically, every ability a character gets and their passive power null is upgraded by 1 Layer through each rank as that is a clear-cut qualitative difference in literally everything (which is shown multiple times by one rank no-diffing the lower one). The reasoning for this in-verse is not just Godhood but also the level of concepts each sequence represents as they are all just fragmentations of the universals a GOO controls.

Also yeh, Godhood will need to have 1-A potency cuz it’s literally just the Original Creator so the verse will get insane smurf hax. Town levels with 1-A hax is naturally stupid but the series is already extremely consistent with how immutable Godhood is so what can ya do about it.

Almost all of this stuff (Reality, Spirit World, Astral World, Symbolism) is already accepted in previous CRTs (like here and here) so this is really just a proposal of a page but I’ll still use this section as an opportunity to go a little bit more in-depth about the conceptual aspects.

As you can read within the pages, every concept in Reality (the conceptual objects that characters actively manipulate) are Type 3, but the universals in the Astral World (Symbolism) are Type 1. The reasoning for the multiple layering though is that even the derived/fragmented concepts (Authorities and the like) exist in a primary sense within the Astral World—not just the Symbolism. (This is the reason why Beyonder Characteristics and Uniquenesses are immutable in essence the same way Sefirot are)

So, it would be like this:
  1. CM Type 1 (No layers) will be the Astral World concepts derived from Authorities which represents Sequences 9-1.
  2. CM Type 1 (1 Layer) will be Authorities of Uniquenesses, corresponding to Sequence 0
  3. CM Type 1 (2 Layers) will be the Symbolism of Sefirot corresponding to Above the Sequence
Though all of them except from the last one are kinda useless because the characters until GOO level can’t even affect the universals and all they do is just conceptually manifest in the Astral World. But since they embody themselves as one in there, it kinda helps durability-wise.


Mod Votes:

  • DarkDragonMedeus (Agree)
  • Elizhaa (Agree)
  • Vietthai96 (Agree)
 
Last edited:
Super_Nova said:
Alright, I’ll try and keep this short:

This one pretty much covers all the universal aspects in LOTM like Souls, Godhood and also layers—well, how we would address each layer.

Basically, every ability a character gets and their passive power null is upgraded by 1 Layer through each rank as that is a clear-cut qualitative difference in literally everything (which is shown multiple times by one rank no-diffing the lower one). The reasoning for this in-verse is not just Godhood but also the level of concepts each sequence represents as they are all just fragmentations of the universals a GOO controls.

Also yeh, Godhood will need to have 1-A potency cuz it’s literally just the Original Creator so the verse will get insane smurf hax. Town levels with 1-A hax is naturally stupid but the series is already extremely consistent with how immutable Godhood is so what can ya do about it.

Almost all of this stuff (Reality, Spirit World, Astral World, Symbolism) is already accepted in previous CRTs so this is really just a proposal of a page but I’ll still use this section as an opportunity to go a little bit more in-depth about the conceptual aspects.

As you can read within the pages, every concept in Reality (the conceptual objects that characters actively manipulate) are Type 3, but the universals in the Astral World (Symbolism) are Type 1. The reasoning for the multiple layering though is that even the derived/fragmented concepts (Authorities and the like) exist in a primary sense within the Astral World—not just the Symbolism. (This is the reason why Beyonder Characteristics and Uniquenesses are immutable in essence the same way Sefirot are)

So, it would be like this:
  1. CM Type 1 (No layers) will be the Astral World concepts derived from Authorities which represents Sequences 9-1.
  2. CM Type 1 (1 Layer) will be Authorities of Uniquenesses, corresponding to Sequence 0
  3. CM Type 1 (2 Layers) will be the Symbolism of Sefirot corresponding to Above the Sequence
Though all of them except from the last one are kinda useless because the characters until GOO level can’t even affect the universals and all they do is just conceptually manifest in the Astral World. But since they embody themselves as one in there, it kinda helps durability-wise.


Mod Votes:
Click to expand...
Looks good .

The only thing is godhood passive powernull should be "limited".
It is only for beyonders of similar pathways. For example a sequence 4 bizzaro sorcerer would passively limit a sequence 5 marionetist but he's not going to limit a sequence 5 of the hunter pathway.
It's even more pronounced in the death pathway.

Now maybe there is a way to carry this cross verse idk but it should be "limited" still
 
karo_senpaii said:
The only thing is godhood passive powernull should be "limited".
It is only for beyonders of similar pathways. For example a sequence 4 bizzaro sorcerer would passively limit a sequence 5 marionetist but he's not going to limit a sequence 5 of the hunter pathway.
It's even more pronounced in the death pathway.
Click to expand...
I put multiple examples of this being wrong right below. Same-pathway superiority doesn’t even have allat to do with Godhood anyways.

Devourer1 said:
I agree with everything, but what prevents the spirit world from getting 1-a?
Click to expand...
There is potential for 1-A. But I’ll have to think about it
 
Super_Nova said:
I put multiple examples of this being wrong right below. Same-pathway superiority doesn’t even have allat to do with Godhood anyways.
Click to expand...
I'm telling you it's just wrong. By your logic a sequence 4 can't even fight at sequence 3. All their abilities would just stop working which is clearly not true
 
karo_senpaii said:
I'm telling you it's just wrong. By your logic a sequence 4 can't even fight at sequence 3. All their abilities would just stop working which is clearly not true
Click to expand...
“Trust me bro, it’s wrong, even though there are dozens of cases where it’s right.”

Firstly, both Sequence 4s and 3s are Demigods. Their Godhood levels are barely any different. There is no power null between them. Same thing to be said for S2s and S1s—they’re both Angels.

And secondly, it has never been implied that Angels can’t nodiff a demigod, or that a deity can’t no diff an angel, or that a GOO can’t nodiff a deity. In fact, it’s stressed out that this is exactly the case, quite literally all throughout the series. (I mean Leodero was literally swatted like a fly by MGOD lmao)

Like, I’m like genuinely so damn confused how you even came up to this conclusion lmao. This qualitative difference in ranks is probably one of the most consistent points in the entire series. So you either genuinely haven’t read LOTM or at least didn’t even bother reading this page.

Like fun fact, do you know that for a Sequence 0 Door to seal a GOO, the GOO has to be completely on-board with it and not resist at all? And even then CF stated that it’d be for mere moments lmao. And the entire difference is a single sequence lel
 
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Is this a summary? I seem to have seen content that was agreed upon before.
 
Super_Nova said:
“Trust me bro, it’s wrong, even though there are dozens of cases where it’s right.”

Firstly, both Sequence 4s and 3s are Demigods. Their Godhood levels are barely any different. There is no power null between them. Same thing to be said for S2s and S1s—they’re both Angels.

And secondly, it has never been implied that Angels can’t nodiff a demigod, or that a deity can’t no diff an angel, or that a GOO can’t nodiff a deity. In fact, it’s stressed out that this is exactly the case, quite literally all throughout the series. (I mean Leodero was literally swatted like a fly by MGOD lmao)

Like, I’m like genuinely so damn confused how you even came up to this conclusion lmao. This qualitative difference in ranks is probably one of the most consistent points in the entire series. So you either genuinely haven’t read LOTM or at least didn’t even bother reading this page.

Like fun fact, do you know that for a Sequence 0 Door to seal a GOO, the GOO has to be completely on-board with it and not resist at all? And even then CF stated that it’d be for mere moments lmao. And the entire difference is a single sequence lel
Click to expand...
One thing that I would like to mention is that while Angels do no diff demigods, it doesn't qualify for a layer superiority, as in COI we see Cattleya somewhat competently fighting against an angel of the same pathway
 
AlexSamDen said:
One thing that I would like to mention is that while Angels do no diff demigods, it doesn't qualify for a layer superiority, as in COI we see Cattleya somewhat competently fighting against an angel of the same pathway
Click to expand...
Er… which part was this again?
 
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Super_Nova said:
Isn’t that the incomplete MCF tho? Seems kinda relevant in that case
Click to expand...
Doesn’t it also buff her because she’s drawing power from the Ugly Duckling story? And yeah, she can use her mythical creature form without losing control for 10 seconds, too.
 
LOTM_Historian said:
Doesn’t it also buff her because she’s drawing power from the Ugly Duckling story? And yeah, she can use her mythical creature form without losing control for 10 seconds, too.
Click to expand...
Oh yeaaa, she’s deriving power from pre-existing mysticism like the Spear of Longinus. I think the layer is fine then (especially considering the Demigod-Angel resistance examples alr in the blog)
 
LOTM_Historian said:
Doesn’t it also buff her because she’s drawing power from the Ugly Duckling story? And yeah, she can use her mythical creature form without losing control for 10 seconds, too.
Click to expand...
As far as I know Ugly Duckling doesn't provide any buffs except MCF, it's whole meaning is about it, "true appearance" or smth
 
AlexSamDen said:
As far as I know Ugly Duckling doesn't provide any buffs except MCF, it's whole meaning is about it, "true appearance" or smth
Click to expand...
Uh, you might be right? Im not sure if this is enough actually, "a sequence 3 could also manifest an incomplete mythical creature form, supporting it for a short time under the impact of an angel!"

Either way, she is drawing on an external source of power (that being the story), but it’s unclear whether that should qualify for what we’re talking about.
 
LOTM_Historian said:
Uh, you might be right? Im not sure if this is enough actually, "a sequence 3 could also manifest an incomplete mythical creature form, supporting it for a short time under the impact of an angel!"

Either way, she is drawing on an external source of power (that being the story), but it’s unclear whether that should qualify for what we’re talking about.
Click to expand...
This is just about survival, no? Godhood isn’t used so offensively—it’s generally just resistance about yourself since it’s OCs will within you. For example, when Amon destroys space, that spatial rip doesn’t “have godhood within itself” (at least, inherently). So it shouldn’t necessarily negate anything unless it’s part of the ability itself
 
LOTM_Historian said:
Uh, you might be right? Im not sure if this is enough actually, "a sequence 3 could also manifest an incomplete mythical creature form, supporting it for a short time under the impact of an angel!"
Click to expand...
Well, other demigods can technically fight against other demigods even those who are in MCF. One of the examples is Klein vs Hvin Rembis. So the line pretty much goes like: Angels →(somewhat comparable) MCF demigod →(somewhat comparable) other demigods
LOTM_Historian said:
Either way, she is drawing on an external source of power (that being the story), but it’s unclear whether that should qualify for what we’re talking about.
Click to expand...
Also don't have much ideas, I just stumbled upon this thread and decided to comment, since I've read LOTM and COI
 
Strength-wise Hvin in his incomplete MCF was said to be around a S3 not using their incomplete MCF, so it does boost your status quite a bit, a S3 using their incomplete MCF could hold their ground against a S2 as shown by Cattleya but that was through the use of an unknown power source.

It should be easier to see when we look at the Second Law pathway, their S3 has the Left Hand of Decay which has an angelic or higher (>S2) status & has shown to stop Lumian from using any abilities when it was observed (chapter 1054)
 
Exoko said:
a S3 using their incomplete MCF could hold their ground against a S2 as shown by Cattleya but that was through the use of an unknown power source.
Click to expand...
I’m still not sure what the contention regarding Cattleya is because all that scan shows is that she was capable of surviving (in an undisclosed way)… which really says nothing about the power null because it wouldn’t even be properly applied in this sense, since as I’ve said, individual abilities don’t inherently “have godhood in them”. This is regardless of the identity of the power source.

This is why I’ve separated the layering of the Power Null (innate resistance as Godhood is within you) to the layering of Abilities (powers derived from higher Sequences, with no inherent relation to Godhood and are external to the Soul). Like, Klein’s grafted star has no reason to “have godhood” or whatever, so it won’t inherently remove a revive or smthn, but it will still he extremely powerful and high-end CM.

Which mind you, that same fight of Cattleya is literally just her being held in a crushing grip and all her abilities being quote-on-quote “ineffective”—all it is, is her barely surviving using Godhood lol.
 
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Looks great!

Just curious, which specific characters will get the layered 1-A deity hax for CM?
 
Super_Nova said:
Be a lil more specific please
Click to expand...
I saw in your blog that people of a certain level will get either 1-2 layers of concept hax, I just want to know which specific characters.

Also, what other haxxes will have 1-A potency?
 
Super_Nova said:
Like, Klein’s grafted star has no reason to “have godhood” or whatever, so it won’t inherently remove a revive or smthn, but it will still he extremely powerful and high-end CM.
Click to expand...

I doubt Klein’s grafted star had no reasons to “have godhood”. As I remember the key of quality differences between seq 5 and seq 4 is godhood, if star had no godhood, how will it harm Amon then?

Found somewhere Q&A from author, but can’t find where it came from:

“ Q : since the Nuclear Bomb has no godhood in it, can a seq 4 Overseer survive it ?
CF : Yeah, that's the rule.”
 
Super_Nova said:
“Trust me bro, it’s wrong, even though there are dozens of cases where it’s right.”

Firstly, both Sequence 4s and 3s are Demigods. Their Godhood levels are barely any different. There is no power null between them. Same thing to be said for S2s and S1s—they’re both Angels.

And secondly, it has never been implied that Angels can’t nodiff a demigod, or that a deity can’t no diff an angel, or that a GOO can’t nodiff a deity. In fact, it’s stressed out that this is exactly the case, quite literally all throughout the series. (I mean Leodero was literally swatted like a fly by MGOD lmao)
Click to expand...
This is irrelevant to my point. The first time we saw a sequence 4 fight a sequence 6 was Leonard Vs zangwell. The only reason he couldn't fight was simply because he had to keep his eyes closed. His abilities worked just fine. Like so many abilities worked fine.

A sequence 5 doesn't just suddenly have all his powers stop working in front of a sequence 4. As long as he doesn't look at his mythical form he'd be fine . That's what I'm telling you, the rest abilities are fine but there is no passive power null. Give me one example of someone without godhood suddenly unable to use their abilities in the presence of someone with godhood, I mean angels and demigods.
Super_Nova said:
Like, I’m like genuinely so damn confused how you even came up to this conclusion lmao. This qualitative difference in ranks is probably one of the most consistent points in the entire series. So you either genuinely haven’t read LOTM or at least didn’t even bother reading this page.
Click to expand...
Re read. I'm not arguing with the qualitative difference, power null is just not part of the abilities. It is only there a little bit in same pathway beyonders.
Super_Nova said:
Like fun fact, do you know that for a Sequence 0 Door to seal a GOO, the GOO has to be completely on-board with it and not resist at all? And even then CF stated that it’d be for mere moments lmao. And the entire difference is a single sequence lel
Click to expand...
1. treating a true God and a GOO as just one sequence difference is just disingenuous
2. That isn't powernull. That is resistance to said abilities. Power null is just making anyone in your presence passively unable to use their powers
 
karo_senpaii said:
Give me one example of someone without godhood suddenly unable to use their abilities in the presence of someone with godhood, I mean angels and demigods.
Click to expand...
I know you haven’t actually read my points because this is not how Godhood Power Null works. If you actually did read any single one of the many examples listed below, you’d understand that the power null is an innate resistance to all mystical abilities. I’ve literally stressed this difference out multiple times and you still don’t understand.

Like read any (literally ANY) one of these and your point is disproven:
Click to expand...
 
Agree with proposal, also, will there be a Original Creator profile?
 
Re5yh said:
Agree with proposal, also, will there be a Original Creator profile?
Click to expand...
Yea. (Planning for a High 1-A proposal in the future as well)

Devourer1 said:
I doubt Klein’s grafted star had no reasons to “have godhood”. As I remember the key of quality differences between seq 5 and seq 4 is godhood, if star had no godhood, how will it harm Amon then?

Found somewhere Q&A from author, but can’t find where it came from:

“ Q : since the Nuclear Bomb has no godhood in it, can a seq 4 Overseer survive it ?
CF : Yeah, that's the rule.”
Click to expand...
You can infuse abilities with Godhood, yea. So I guess the whole ordeal is in whether or not in Cattleya’s situation she was hit with a Godhood-infused attack which should’ve been strong enough for a layer but was not in fact sufficient, because for an off-screen reason, even though she could do nothing against the Angel, she wasn’t one-shot.
 
I agree with karo_senpaii. A demigod and above doesn't just null powers of anyone at a lower sequence not to even talk about it being passive (Klein could use his powers to escape from Zaratul (S1 angel of the same pathway) during king George's apotheosis ritual . It's something they actively have to do and it's limited to those in their own pathway.

Klein didn't get his powers nullified upon meeting Amon for the first time, as a scholar of yore, he was perfectly capable of using his powers amongst a gathering of S1 & S2's not to mention when he was still S5 and escaped capture by causing chaos by pulling Suah (S1), artificial death (almost a deity), Botis (S4), Jahn Kottman etc. Botis a S4 could even record one of Suah's powers before dipping. There's no passive power null and it's heavily limited
 
Tatsumi504 said:
I agree with karo_senpaii. A demigod and above doesn't just null powers of anyone at a lower sequence not to even talk about it being passive (Klein could use his powers to escape from Zaratul (S1 angel of the same pathway) during king George's apotheosis ritual . It's something they actively have to do and it's limited to those in their own pathway.

Klein didn't get his powers nullified upon meeting Amon for the first time, as a scholar of yore, he was perfectly capable of using his powers amongst a gathering of S1 & S2's not to mention when he was still S5 and escaped capture by causing chaos by pulling Suah (S1), artificial death (almost a deity), Botis (S4), Jahn Kottman etc. Botis a S4 could even record one of Suah's powers before dipping. There's no passive power null and it's heavily limited
Click to expand...
Did you even read what I said
 
DarkDragonMedeus said:
Looks alright to me from a glance, but we definitely need more input from staff before applying such a big upgrade.
Click to expand...
Honestly, I’d js like your opinion on the power null specifically. Since it’s not something that manifests itself like in other fictions (like Touma from Toaru or Asta from BC), but moreso like resistance that negates or suppresses an ability used on you specifically.

Would something like a non-specific “Resistance” be applicable here? Since Godhood is the Original Creator, it resists all abilities pertaining to him which is literally every hax aside from like Nonduality, NEP 2, Acaus 5 and Omnipotence
 
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