Dante (DMC Netflix) VS Cunning Hares (ZZZ) (1-0-0)

[Pyro9278]

Cunning Hares (0.334 Tons): 1 ( @Sooshirohl )

• Everyone is in character.
• Access to all his weapons.

Dante Sparda (0.833 Tons):

• Dante is in character.
• Starts with his DT Eyes.
• Has access to all his weapons.

The fight takes place in Dante's office, they start 12 meters apart, both with direct field of vision.

Notes:

• Unequal Speed
• Cunning Hares has prior knowledge about Dante's regeneration.
• SBA from the rest.

 

[Drite77]

Ok, so, a few things to consider:

1. When compared to base Dante, the ZZZ lads have a 4.66x AP advantage
2. When Dante is in his DT eyes, he has a 2.49x AP advantage (Dura stays the same)
3. The speed difference Dante has is a bit higher then the difference between baseline Peak Human speed and baseline Subsonic speed

But before I say anything, how does the pink-haired chick's Corruption works?

 

[Sooshirohl]

Ok, so, a few things to consider:

1. When compared to base Dante, the ZZZ lads have a 4.66x AP advantage
2. When Dante is in his DT eyes, he has a 2.49x AP advantage (Dura stays the same)
3. The speed difference Dante has is a bit higher then the difference between baseline Peak Human speed and baseline Subsonic speed

But before I say anything, how does the pink-haired chick's Corruption works?

nicole's briefcase shoots out giant masses of ether that basically suck both people and objects into them. in-game, it basically acts as a debuff that temporarily causes enemies to take more ether damage. in lore, enough ether can force turn a person into an ethereal, which is basically a mindless corrupted monster.

we don't really know how much ether it takes for a person to become corrupted, as it varies from person to person. certain people like the hares have high ether aptitudes, which means they can stay in hollows longer without becoming corrupted, and others have lower ether aptitudes, which means they become corrupted faster. that's just from the body absorbing the ether in the environment of a hollow though, and getting hit specifically with ether-concentrated attacks like nicole's ether bombs can induce corruption faster. considering nicole can spam her ether bombs fairly frequently, and also considering they do continuous rapid damage over time, i would say that it probably wouldn't take super long for dante to become fully corrupted

 

[Drite77]

nicole's briefcase shoots out giant masses of ether that basically suck both people and objects into them. in-game, it basically acts as a debuff that temporarily causes enemies to take more ether damage. in lore, enough ether can force turn a person into an ethereal, which is basically a mindless corrupted monster.

we don't really know how much ether it takes for a person to become corrupted, as it varies from person to person. certain people like the hares have high ether aptitudes, which means they can stay in hollows longer without becoming corrupted, and others have lower ether aptitudes, which means they become corrupted faster. that's just from the body absorbing the ether in the environment of a hollow though, and getting hit specifically with ether-concentrated attacks like nicole's ether bombs can induce corruption faster. considering nicole can spam her ether bombs fairly frequently, and also considering they do continuous rapid damage over time, i would say that it probably wouldn't take super long for dante to become fully corrupted

If it is based on damage wouldn't Dante's Regeneration counter that?

 

[Sooshirohl]

If it is based on damage wouldn't Dante's Regeneration counter that?

i don't think so, nicole's ether attacks can still damage and harm the dead end butcher and other ethereals, who also have regen

also, the way ether corruption is described and depicted, it acts more like an illness/disease than just traditional injuries. unless dante explicitly has resistances to stuff like that i don't think his regen would counter the effects of corruption

 

[Drite77]

How does the attack look like?

 

[Naito-desu]

Also, Vital View from the agents should be able to counter the speed advantage, if only briefly, which allows them to statue enemies with their heightened speed and perception

 

[Drite77]

Also, Vital View from the agents should be able to counter the speed advantage, if only briefly, which allows them to statue enemies with their heightened speed and perception

I mean, they need to dodge Dante's attacks, and he has over 3x their speed, I don't think that'll happen anywhere near as often, or at all

 

[Sooshirohl]

How does the attack look like?

she basically just shoots out a giant ball of ether that sucks enemies in. here's some non-gameplay footage of it as well

 

[Drite77]

she basically just shoots out a giant ball of ether that sucks enemies in. here's some non-gameplay footage of it as well

Given the LS difference Dante likely wouldn't be affected by its gravity properties I guess

 

[Sooshirohl]

I mean, they need to dodge Dante's attacks, and he has over 3x their speed, I don't think that'll happen anywhere near as often, or at all

i think the AP difference in base means they'd at least be able to shrug off a few attacks while waiting for an opening to launch a counterattack. vital view would at least make it so that they wouldn't be completely helpless, and i think billy's danmaku on top of nicole's ether bombs generally also having pretty good AOE would help with the speed gap. billy, nekomata, or anby accumulating enough damage would also momentarily stun dante which would give them an opening to just jump him

i don't know how soon dante would resort to using the DT eyes as i'm not super familiar with him but if he doesn't activate them as soon as the hares get an opening i think they just pummel him with their sizable AP advantage. would probably have to hear more for dante's side but i think i might lean the hares atm

 

[Drite77]

vital view would at least make it so that they wouldn't be completely helpless

So like, they need to dodge his attacks, that's not exactly easy to do when he is over 3x faster then them

i think billy's danmaku

I don't really think a lot about it since the profiles lacks scans for it '-'

billy, nekomata, or anby accumulating enough damage would also momentarily stun dante

If you mean just the accumulating damage thing, wouldn't his regen just negate that? They don't really have any Regeneration Negation on their profiles, so it would off set it

i don't know how soon dante would resort to using the DT eyes

He can't, it only appeared when he was very angry or very excited, which is why matches where Dante is "allowed" to enter DT don't really work that well, right, Pyro? I honestly think the AP difference is too big, I would rather have Dante start with his DT or DT eyes

 

[Sooshirohl]

So like, they need to dodge his attacks, that's not exactly easy to do when he is over 3x faster then them

fair enough. but again, them being over 4x stronger also means they aren't just gonna keel over in a single hit. at that point it just sort of comes down to whether or not you think the hares can get a single opening to pummel him or if dante can just evade and drop them one by one

I don't really think a lot about it since the profiles lacks scans for it '-'

he basically just moves around really fast and bullets go flying everywhere in all directions. this also applies to stuff like his dash attack and chain attack

If you mean just the accumulating damage thing, wouldn't his regen just negate that? They don't really have any Regeneration Negation on their profiles, so it would off set it

i mean, yeah he can regen the damage itself, but the status inflictions are moreso just a result of dealing enough damage. they kind of just happen when enough damage is dealt to enemies. not sure if he can exactly "regen" from something like that when it just sort of...happens. even then, they can inflict those status conditions on ethereals, who, again, also have regen

 

[Naito-desu]

I think the main wincon here is Dante's lack of resistance to Ether Corruption, also I'm working on adding gifs of character attacks to make it easier to visualize

 

[Drite77]

I think the main wincon here is Dante's lack of resistance to Ether Corruption, also I'm working on adding gifs of character attacks to make it easier to visualize

Well, one of the main incons is also just the AP disadvantage, which is currently too big and Dante can't really access his DT Eyes consistantly, which is why these types of matches shouldn't really be done since it basically means Dante is only at base

I would argue for Pyro to add Dante at his DT eyes from the beginning since the gap is currently way too big

 

[Sooshirohl]

Well, one of the main incons is also just the AP disadvantage, which is currently too big and Dante can't really access his DT Eyes consistantly, which is why these types of matches shouldn't really be done since it basically means Dante is only at base

I would argue for Pyro to add Dante at his DT eyes from the beginning since the gap is currently way too big

would a 2.45x AP advantage on top of the speed advantage not make it one-sided in dante's favor though? then at that point he just blitzes and pummels the hares before they can do anything

i feel like equalizing speed and starting dante with his DT eyes would probably be the most fair? hares would be at an AP disadvantage but they'd make up for that with having four people against just dante

 

[Drite77]

would a 2.45x AP advantage on top of the speed advantage not make it one-sided in dante's favor though

He's a glass cannon, they would still have the 4.something when compared to his dura

 

[Kisaragi_Megumi]

incons

Minor spelling mistake detected, did you just say Incons instead of wincons?

 

[Drite77]

Minor spelling mistake detected, did you just say Incons instead of wincons?

Well, I'm playing valorant while replying to this thread when I'm dead, bound to happen '-'

 

[Kisaragi_Megumi]

Well, I'm playing valorant while replying to this thread when I'm dead, bound to happen '-'

 

[Kisaragi_Megumi]

Okay but seriously, what is the summary of this fight ATM?

 

[Drite77]

Okay but seriously, what is the summary of this fight ATM?

Currently I'm asking for the OP to change Dante to just be in his DT eyes since he really can't access them on his own, making the 4x something AP gap against 4 opponents quite big, on top of their hax.

I believe using Dante's Glass Cannon key is better

 

[Sooshirohl]

Currently I'm asking for the OP to change Dante to just be in his DT eyes since he really can't access them on his own, making the 4x something AP gap against 4 opponents quite big, on top of their hax.

I believe using Dante's Glass Cannon key is better

yeah i probably second this. 4x AP gap against 4 opponents mean the second any of the hares get an attack in dante's probably just gonna get jumped. giving him a general stats edge while also keeping it as a 1v4 would be a bit more fair imo

 

[Pyro9278]

which is why matches where Dante is "allowed" to enter DT don't really work that well, right, Pyro?

Dante starts with DT eyes and Equal Speed now

 

[Sooshirohl]

ok, so equalized speed means the hare's vital view is actually going to matter now, which is good cause that gives them the ability to react to and dodge a lot of dante's attacks, which considering the AP advantage means they can avoid lethal blows.

nicole and billy i think are still gonna be the main factors. nekomata and anby are unfortunately outclassed here, both thanks to dante's AP advantage and his considerable LS advantage. i think trying to engage in CQC with dante is just a bad idea, so that means they'll just have to keep their distance and wear him down from afar. the hares at least knowing that dante can regenerate means that they'll probably strategize to try and incapacitate him. billy can probably just go for headshots with the help of his W-engine, and the accumulation of things like corruption, assault, and shock would also wear dante down over time. the hares also have various ways of both amping their own stats while also debuffing dante, meaning as the fight progresses they'll only be getting stronger while dante will be getting weaker

dante with both his AP and LS advantage can definitely take some of the hares out if they're not careful. but if they play it smart, keeping their distance, dodging attacks with the help of vital view, and wearing him down over time with various status effects, i think they can come out on top. i'll still probably lean the hares

 

[Pyro9278]

Counted

 

[AthelChan]

Well, I'm playing valorant while replying to this thread when I'm dead, bound to happen '-'

lemme guess, are you on the gold trenches?

 

[Drite77]

Wouldn't Vital View just make this one sided? Looking at how it works, one dodge and Dante looks like he is in slow motion, they would just need to hit him in the head once or so due to the AP difference, with nothing Dante can do about it

 

[Drite77]

lemme guess, are you on the gold trenches?

Idk what that means, maybe

 

[Naito-desu]

Honestly, I was pretty alright with the speed gap, at least in light of recent calculations of the speed. Sooshirohl's reasoning is pretty solid for a general win imo if we were to give Dante a bigger advantage like starting him off with Devil Trigger

 

[Drite77]

Honestly, I was pretty alright with the speed gap, at least in light of recent calculations of the speed. Sooshirohl's reasoning is pretty solid for a general win imo if we were to give Dante a bigger advantage like starting him off with Devil Trigger

Well, his DT (Where he scales a bit above the 0.8 Tons, but not massively) or his glass cannon key?

 

[Pyro9278]

Honestly, I was pretty alright with the speed gap, at least in light of recent calculations of the speed. Sooshirohl's reasoning is pretty solid for a general win imo if we were to give Dante a bigger advantage like starting him off with Devil Trigger

With the unequal speed, I think it would be too much of an advantage, since Dante also has an AP advantage and his regeneration is fast enough to deal with Billy's Danmaku. Anyway, I already changed it, Dante starts with his DT.

 

[Drite77]

With the unequal speed, I think it would be too much of an advantage, since Dante also has an AP advantage and his regeneration is fast enough to deal with Billy's Danmaku. Anyway, I already changed it, Dante starts with his DT.

The ZZZ people also have an AP advantage while he only has DT eyes

 

[Drite77]

Like, I particularly think that if Dante faced any of these 4 in a 1v1 while he has his DT activated, it would be close because of Vital View, this just seems overkill.

Dante has the AP, LS and possibly the skill edge when comparing them to Dante on a 1 to 1 basis, but they each have their haxes and Vital View, which woulde be a decent advantage in 1v1, in a 1v4, there is not a lot Dante can do here

 

[Pyro9278]

Like, I particularly think that if Dante faced any of these 4 in a 1v1 while he has his DT activated, it would be close because of Vital View, this just seems overkill.

Dante has the AP, LS and possibly the skill edge when comparing them to Dante on a 1 to 1 basis, but they each have their haxes and Vital View, which woulde be a decent advantage in 1v1, in a 1v4, there is not a lot Dante can do here

So do I count this as a vote or do I consider this a stomp?

 

[Drite77]

I mean, I personally think this is a stomp, not a lot Dante can do to actually win with Vital View on play with 4 targets who all know only hits in the head work

 

[Sooshirohl]

ehhhh, i mean personally i think the hares have an advantage but i don't think they completely outclass to the point of this being a stomp. dante still has regen which means he should be able to shrug off most of their attacks, and his superior AP and LS means he'd cripple one of the hares if he got a good hit in at best and straight up kill them at worst. he also has superhuman stamina vs. all of their peak human stamina, meaning he should also be able to just outlast them in a battle of attrition. i still side the hares but i don't think this is unwinnable for dante imo

 

[Drite77]

Hm, I'll give try to give a more in depth insight once I'm home, multiple characters to analyze so more variables to account for

 

[Drite77]

Ok, so, a lot to cover, hopefully not as much as I want it to be, I'll start with Dante's advantages since I think it is easier to point out what he has that the others don't have.

Obvious parts out, Dante has an advantage in AP and Dura (I'll just round it up to 2.5x) and an advanatage in LS (About 220x), former is neat, latter is a lot.

I would also argue Dante has better skill showings then most of the other 4, which includes being better at guns then Billy Kid, here are his and Lady's (Which he should scale to):

1. When he shoots a demon while moving and when said demon is holding a hostage in his face
2. When he shoots a lightbulb without even looking at it
3. When he shoots Lady's foot gear while trying not to hit her
4. When he shoots a small pipe while wall-running
5. When Lady shoots a small target from very far away with a single bullet
6. When Lady hits two small moving target while driving a car with a single bullet for each

As far as I know, Billy's only real feat is his engine stating it can calculate trajectories and assists his aim, that's a bit vague so I don't think I can say for certain Billy is better then Dante with guns with only that. Of course, this is because ZZZ is a game that focus on gameplay so you won't have a lot of those moments, I think at least.

In terms of skill, once again, Dante should be superior, as he is able to fight many Demons + Cavalier without ever being hit by the former and, once again, due to the nature of it being a game the characters can't really show their skills.

Now here is the problem: I kept hearing the comments about Dante's regeneration, as if that would matter, but people are forgetting they know about Dante's regen, they would target places they know he can't easily regen from, that's still an advantage but one he can't really use that much considering they are all aware their attacks won't work. For the Stamina part, Dante can't outlast any of them before going down, he doesn't know anything about them, there is someone with a Corruption hax that he can't reliably dodge and he doesn't even know what it does. Of course he won't just stand there and take it, but that's a big win con with a big AoE that can be easily triggered via the fact Dante is fighting multiple people at the same time

I did say Dante is overall more skilled, but the cat and Anby have very great analytical skills, Anby can identify Dante's fighting style, while the Cat can strike when there are openings. I also did say Dante is a better gunslinger, but his pistols break because of his trigger finger, while in DT, that'll happen even faster

With that said, there is also Vital View and 3 of them have stun, how does Dante even get out of this? Disconsidering the Corruption hax, how can Dante reliably deal with any of them if, once they dodge, time goes into slow motion, gives them 1 or multiple hits? How does Dante get out of being stun locked? Once one of them does it, it is just game over, Dante will never be able to move again. This is not even mentioning Dante won't even try to kill 3/4 of their members, excluding Billy, hell, he might even not attempt to kill Billy either because he looks like a human with a funny mask. I don't think I need to go through all of their profiles or their other abilities, this is just overwhelming in so in disfavor of Dante. I'm going to quote a few arguments of why this isn't a stomp and explain why I think it is.

dante still has regen which means he should be able to shrug off most of their attacks

They know about his Regeneration, they know where he wouldn't be able to fully regenerate, or that their attacks anywhere but the head are not exactly going to do much

and his superior AP and LS means he'd cripple one of the hares if he got a good hit in at best and straight up kill them at worst

He doesn't have enough AP to kill them in one hit, and Dante will go out of his ways to not kill humans, at best he is hitting them with the blunt part of the Force Edge

he also has superhuman stamina vs. all of their peak human stamina, meaning he should also be able to just outlast them in a battle of attrition

I mean, that'll never happen between the stun lock and the Corruption hax the pink haired girl has

Like, how is this not a stomp? I'm failling to see how Dante has any wincons at all

 

[Sooshirohl]

i agree that dante should probably be more skilled than all of the hares. billy has implications of being more skilled from his time spent as champion of the outer ring, but we really just don't know enough about that at the moment to say anything with certainty. aside from him, i would probably say anby is the most skilled member of the hares, and i think she has some fairly impressive skill showings of her own, but yeah i think saying dante is more skilled than everyone is fine.

Now here is the problem: I kept hearing the comments about Dante's regeneration, as if that would matter, but people are forgetting they know about Dante's regen, they would target places they know he can't easily regen from, that's still an advantage but one he can't really use that much considering they are all aware their attacks won't work

to be fair, i think the hares going into the fight with knowledge that dante can regenerate would probably mean that they'd equate his regen to that of an ethereal, who's regen is generally weaker. i think they'd probably be surprised if billy say, shot him in the chest a couple times only for him to regen immediately. they could probably switch to try and target more lethal areas like the head from there, but they might not immediately assume his regeneration is as good as it is, which could possibly leave them open for an attack

With that said, there is also Vital View and 3 of them have stun, how does Dante even get out of this? Disconsidering the Corruption hax, how can Dante reliably deal with any of them if, once they dodge, time goes into slow motion, gives them 1 or multiple hits? How does Dante get out of being stun locked? Once one of them does it, it is just game over, Dante will never be able to move again. This is not even mentioning Dante won't even try to kill 3/4 of their members, excluding Billy, hell, he might even not attempt to kill Billy either because he looks like a human with a funny mask. I don't think I need to go through all of their profiles or their other abilities, this is just overwhelming in so in disfavor of Dante. I'm going to quote a few arguments of why this isn't a stomp and explain why I think it is.

the stuns of the status effects aren't like, super long to be fair, they usually only last about a second at most. it'd give the hares a chance to get in some quick attacks but i don't think it'd be a long enough stun to just say dante would be completely stun locked

He doesn't have enough AP to kill them in one hit, and Dante will go out of his ways to not kill humans, at best he is hitting them with the blunt part of the Force Edge

a 2.5x AP advantage might not one shot, but it would still certainly hurt to get hit by. also, i mean, can't he just incap via knockout in that case? dante just needs to find an opening to grab one of the hares with his ludicrously superior LS, and then just bonk them over the head with his sword for a quick and easy KO. considering nekomata and anby are both CQC fighters, he could very easily just catch them off guard with his superior LS and just get two easy knockouts, which would bring the fight down from a 4v1 to a 2v1 extremely quickly.

vital view also can't be spammed for the most part. there's a cooldown for it in-game iirc, so while the hares could use it to avoid attacks, they wouldn't be able to consistently spam it the entire fight.

and again, we don't really have a solid estimate of how fast dante would get corrupted, but i don't think it'd be blazingly fast enough to where he'd already start feeling the symptoms the second he gets hit by nicole's attack once.

i still don't think this is super one-sided tbh. dante has ways to hang in there, he really just needs to find a chance to catch one of the hares off guard and just knock them out quickly. and if nicole and billy are the ones constantly harassing him with ranged attacks, i don't see why he just wouldn't target them, which would make things much easier for him if he managed to knock one or both of them out

also on an unrelated note i find it kind of funny how we're sort of arguing for our opposing sides lol