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PvZ: Big Thread of Revisions

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StarShooter80

StarShooter80

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Big Tier 8 Upgrade + Range Statistics Values Additions​

Ice-shroom's freeze effect has been upgraded in this blog into being High 8-C+:
vsbattles.fandom.com

Iceberg Lettuce freezes zombies

vsbattles.fandom.com vsbattles.fandom.com
He currently acts as the baseline for all 8-C plants in the series, which you can imagine heavily upgrades the verse as a whole. So here's the new scaling chain:

Plants vs. Zombies​

  • Ice-shroom can generate enough energy to freeze every zombie across the lawn. He's also the plant with the weakest rated potency in the game, being the only one who deals "very light" damage: 9.56866498565 Tons (High 8-C+)
    • All Peashooters deal "normal" damage which is superior to Ice-shroom's light damage, and can amplify their attacks by 2x with Torchwood. "Heavy" damage dealing plants like Melon-pult can kill zombies in even less hits: 19.1373299713 Tons (8-B)
  • Doom-shroom can cause gigantic explosions and deals "massive" damage, which scales to anyone who does too. Gargantuars can tank Doom-shroom explosions and many other plants who deal massive damage, both in-game and in the comics: 22.2764818752 Tons (8-B)
  • The Original Zombot can tank many Jalapeños and can easily crush multiple Gargantuars: At least 22.2764818752 Tons (8-B), likely higher

Plants vs. Zombies 2​

  • Plants only evolve as the series go by, and so all of the plants in PvZ2 have to at least scale to/above Ice-shroom's damage: 9.56866498565 Tons (High 8-C+)
    • Peas equal to/above this value can amplify their attacks by 2x with Torchwood: 19.1373299713 Tons (8-B)
  • Level 1 Fire Peashooter shoots fire enhanced peas which are 2x regular ones. Damage is 40: 19.1373299713 Tons (8-B)
    • Peas equal to/above this damage value can amplify their attacks by 2x with Torchwood: 38.2746599426 Tons (8-B)
  • Level 1 Shadow Peashooter can cause massive explosions with his Plant Food. Damage is 500. Zombies with "hardened toughness" can tank these attacks with no alarming injures: 33.108597449 Tons (8-B)
    • Peas equal to/above this damage value can amplify their attacks by 2x with Torchwood: 66.217194898 Tons (8-B+)
  • Zombots can easily tank the strongest kinds of fire enhanced peas and are the physically strongest/most opposing threat in the game: At least 66.217194898 Tons (8-B+), likely higher
  • Night Cap's durability is so tuff Zombots get stunned trying to ram him: At least 66.217194898 Tons (8-B+), likely higher
The blog also includes proper range ratings for the characters, this changes none of the current ratings it just gives them all a solid value to go by, rather than vaguely being their tier.

New Timeline Blog​

Due to how messy the comics could be trying to follow, and the questionable canonicity of them, here's a comprehensive blog listing what is considered primary and secondary material, and the time-placement of each:
vsbattles.fandom.com

Plants vs. Zombies Timeline

vsbattles.fandom.com vsbattles.fandom.com
This is a very minor addition but it makes indexing and organization a much easier process.

Removing In-Verse Comic Scaling​

The inverse scaling of the comics seems to be extremely contradictory to the games. For example Super Brainz is treated as a sort of unstoppable force in the comics that can take down Z-Mechs with ease, even his dandruff is literally impossible to destroy for the plant heroes, and is Zomboss' strongest asset verbatim. Meanwhile in the actual games he can be harmed by the same plants previously thought to be infinitesimal to him, and is portrayed to be in the same realm of power as them. Heck in the games Z-Mech is treated as the strongest playable character, being the key to winning the war for the zombies and verbatim the strongest zombie hero in PvZH, yet Super Brainz in the comics can easily overpower him. Another problem are Browncoats and other fodder zombies being able to endure barrages of peas from Peashooter to the same extent as Foot Soldier and All-Star, which is a bit ridiculous self-evidently.

This just means all AP/Speed/Durability justifications that use the inverse scaling of the comics should be removed. This doesn't really affect any plant or zombie heroes as they're still portrayed as being in the same realm of power (with the exceptions of Oak, Z-Mech and kind of Citron who scales to Z-Mech just being normally stronger than the rest, and Imp and Oak who're a bit weaker but not by a significant amount) The only characters this wouldn't affect would be ones that don't have any scaling whatsoever (such as Dave's and Zomboss' physicals) and comic original characters.

Upgrading Cards, Spawnables and of the likes Profiles/Keys​

Yeah this again lol. Although they're definitely significantly weaker, they're still capable of harming Heroes in PvZH and will eventually knock them out, act as real threats in the Garden/Graveyard Ops in the shooter games in small groups against 1-4 players, and causes real harm/damage to the shooter game playable-characters, even causing them to make groaning noises. This should upgrade them to "At most 6-B" for being able to at least harm plant and zombie heroes, and Massively Hypersonic combat speed (or only attack speed if the character in question only attacks via projectiles and not physical strikes like Weed, or in the case of the Browncoat via his tie) for being able to strike them in PvZH. Plants that deal no damage but still have 1 Heart will be comparable to other cards for simply sharing the same baseline rating. Boss characters should also be "At least 6-B" as they are marginally stronger than the regular playable cast, having huge amounts of health, requiring the most attention during Garden/Graveyard Ops waves, and being able to tank many abilities that can insta-kill most of the main cast like Potato Mine. And another very minor slide, Bonk Choy and Chomper in PvZ2 should have their outdated speed ratings match the rest of the plant cast as High Hypersonic+, as they can also strike Zombots. As for who this affects:

Minor Additions/Revisions​

PvZA Key Addition (Fire Peashooter)​

P&A:
AP: Large Building level+ (Deals high damage, making her superior to PvZA Snow Pea)
Speed: Immobile with Subsonic attack speed (Comparable to Peashooter)
And then has the general/broad ratings of the rest of the plant cast, this is an extremely minor Key addition.

Resistance to Pain Manipulation Removal (Nuts)​

It's already listed as a resistance on the physiology page, the scans should just be moved onto there as additional supporting evidence. This should also be an immunity due to the entire lack thereof feeling pain, and not just being able to withstand a lot.

Immune to Electricity Removal (Power Chomper)​

There's not really a proper justification as to why Power Chomper has this as an immunity, just because he has electric innards does not mean all electric attacks are nullified all together, it's just regular resistance, and it doesn't cover his full biology only a part of it.

Intelligence Gifted Removal (Skyshooter)​

Having a license to be a pilot should only qualify for above average

Edit: the Pea-shooting plants that shoot a larger large pea with plant food should be "Enhanced Organic Manipulation", this is really minor but the profiles just cover this badly
 
Last edited:
Lilybitdun said:
Following

Is there feats that support a High 8-C+ rating? It seems pretty high
Click to expand...
There's two 8-C feats for the lower tier damage dealers, but the better supporter would be that many normal/heavy damage dealing plants at once can visibly harm and even take down Gargantuars in not too long of a timeframe, who scale solidly into 8-B with several supporting durability feats
 
Ednaxel2 said:
There's two 8-C feats for the lower tier damage dealers
Click to expand...
That first one is the one that's getting replaced the High 8-C+ calc
looking at the calc the iceburg plant food is also around with the same level, so High 8-C+ seems consistent. Those scaling above it already having 8-B feats helps too

I'm gonna look over the rest later but the ap scaling section seems fine
 
Lilybitdun said:
That first one is the one that's getting replaced the High 8-C+ calc
Click to expand...
Only as the baseline feat of the verse, it's an entirely different feat
Lilybitdun said:
looking at the calc the iceburg plant food is also around with the same level, so High 8-C+ seems consistent. Those scaling above it already having 8-B feats helps too
Click to expand...
tbf the Iceberg Lettuce feats can't really be used to scale to any other plants normal AP wise, unlike the very light ratings Ice-shroom is given which allows others to upscale
 
I have to disagree with the removing the in-verse comic scaling as that can just be explained by the characters getting stronger(as it is made known in the games that the plants and zombies get stronger every day to year) with the comics being extremely canon to the games
 
Plants_vs_zombies_fan101 said:
I have to disagree with the removing the in-verse comic scaling as that can just be explained by the characters getting stronger(as it is made known in the games that the plants and zombies get stronger every day to year)
Click to expand...
When the contradicting feats happen within the very same time periods it really doesn't
Plants_vs_zombies_fan101 said:
with the comics being extremely canon to the games
Click to expand...
They're secondary canon material outright they aren't primary
 
Ednaxel2 said:
When the contradicting feats happen within the very same time periods it really doesn't
Click to expand...
The gw comics take place before heroes or the gw2 so it isn't like their in tge same time periods at sll
Ednaxel2 said:
They're secondary canon material outright they aren't primary
Click to expand...

They directly draw the canon between gw2 and bfn(literally explaining what happened from an lore and story standpoint)
 
Plants_vs_zombies_fan101 said:
The gw comics take place before heroes or the gw2 so it isn't like their in tge same time periods at sll
Click to expand...
The first volume is verbatim said to lead directly into GW2, with the second volume having that strong and direct theming of GW2. Either way you slice it it's the same time period
Plants_vs_zombies_fan101 said:
They directly draw the canon between gw2 and bfn(literally explaining what happened from an lore and story standpoint)
Click to expand...
I'm not saying they're non-canon of course they aren't, they're just secondary to the main source material as per the actual writers meaning it should take priority with scaling
 
Ednaxel2 said:
The first volume is verbatim said to lead directly into GW2, with the second volume having that strong and direct theming of GW2. Either way you slice it it's the same time period
Click to expand...
Not really as the characters act very differently(like super brainzs in gw2 being able to spreak in whole entire sentences just like zomboss and being shown to be way more intelligent then his comic and heries counterparts) with it just being implied the plants adapted and got stronger than their younger selfs
Ednaxel2 said:
I'm not saying they're non-canon of course they aren't, they're just secondary to the main source material as per the actual writers meaning it should take priority with scaling
Click to expand...
I know but I think they should still be included at least as they are an huge part in pvz overall scaling that does fix an lot of the in verse scaling
 
Plants_vs_zombies_fan101 said:
Not really as the characters act very differently(like super brainzs in gw2 being able to spreak in whole entire sentences just like zomboss and being shown to be way more intelligent then his comic and heries counterparts)
Click to expand...
I severally doubt that has any real lore implications intentionally made and was just have he was characterised differently between iterations
Plants_vs_zombies_fan101 said:
I know but I think they should still be included at least as they are an huge part in pvz overall scaling that does fix an lot of the in verse scaling
Click to expand...
The contradictory inverse scaling for characters that already have it, not so much. For characters with no pre-established scaling sure but this thread already excludes them.
Plants_vs_zombies_fan101 said:
With things like browncoats or fodder plants being able to harm or at times overpower the top tiers Being Very Consistent.(as in heroes alone thus has happened at least 3 different times when the characters ain't amped or anything)
Click to expand...
The fungi attack example includes plants trained by an actual plant hero and the browncoat one just alarms the heroes, not really directly overpowering them or anything. The comics are also not innocent with this stuff as I've already listed in the CRT
 
Ednaxel2 said:
I severally doubt that has any real lore implications intentionally made and was just have he was characterised differently between iterations
Click to expand...
In gw2 the zombies went to and graduated from zomboss academy which both trained and reached them to be smarter on top of how to fight the plants

Ednaxel2 said:
The fungi attack example includes plants trained by an actual plant hero and the browncoat one just alarms the heroes, not really directly overpowering them or anything. The comics are also not innocent with this stuff as I've already listed in the CRT
Click to expand...
That doesn't imply they were amped or physically stronger any of the average plants(which code red shows) on top of the browncoats overwhelming and quite literally overpowering the heroes. So i don't think this is really anything that crazy as the comics just show how strong the zombies can get overtime.
 
Plants_vs_zombies_fan101 said:
In gw2 the zombies went to and graduated from zomboss academy which both trained and reached them to be smarter on top of how to fight the plants
Click to expand...
Zomboss academy existed in GW1
Plants_vs_zombies_fan101 said:
So i don't think this is really anything that crazy as the comics just show how strong the zombies can get overtime.
Click to expand...
Saying the zombies/plants just get stronger at random moments for every underlying inconsistency is just a cope out. When those same zombies in that time period are treated as wave fodder and near one-shots, it does actually become inconsistant when they have durability feats on-par with Foot Soldier and All-Star in so many instances
 
Ednaxel2 said:
Zomboss academy existed in GW1
Click to expand...
Not the one in pvz heroes and gw2(though that one is referred to as an universally)
Ednaxel2 said:
Saying the zombies/plants just get stronger at random moments for every underlying inconsistency is just a cope out. When those same zombies in that time period are treated as wave fodder and near one-shots, it does actually become inconsistant when they have durability feats on-par with Foot Soldier and All-Star in so many instances
Click to expand...
To be fair foot soldier's and all stars are just regular zombies that got training from zomboss universally(even tv heads in pvz bfn is just common fodder like every other wave zombie yet can keep up with the heroes) so it seems to be rather an writing problem though the only consistent showing of characters getting stronger is in the games gw2 and bfn as the zombies mainly go from needing to use the infinity mechs to fight the gnomes to beating them in an four vs a army situation(the trials take place at least multiple days to weeks after the story mode) to onward being able to beat them in 1 vs armys of gnomes so its rather something that just happens
 
Plants_vs_zombies_fan101 said:
Not the one in pvz heroes and gw2(though that one is referred to as an universally)
Click to expand...
Why is it different? I doubt the difference is actually something notable or all that important
Plants_vs_zombies_fan101 said:
To be fair foot soldier's and all stars are just regular zombies that got training from zomboss universally(even tv heads in pvz bfn is just common fodder like every other wave zombie yet can keep up with the heroes)
Click to expand...
tv heads have spawnable and playable versions the same way torchwood has spawnable and boss versions of himself with different scaling and abilities, they're just differing versions. Yes the foot soldier and all star are the same type of zombies but they have a clear superiority over them being demonstrated through being comparable with other playable plants, who can take out waves of browncoats individually
 
Ednaxel2 said:
Why is it different? I doubt the difference is actually something notable or all that important
Click to expand...
The one in heroes and gw2 teaches them how to use their powers and become better soldiers.(its what allows zombies like super brainzs to use other heroes superpowers in heroes)
Ednaxel2 said:
tv heads have spawnable and playable versions the same way torchwood has spawnable and boss versions of himself with different scaling and abilities, they're just differing versions.
Click to expand...
Tv heads have the sane abilities as regular tv heads(beisdes the respawn and yeti abilities) with them being treated as being the same as every other spawn character

The foot soldier and all star are the same type of zombies but they have a clear superiority over them being demonstrated through being comparable with other playable plants, who can take out waves of browncoats individually.

its rather because they are trained to be better than the advantage zombies(which is why regular zombies can still keep up with them) with their armor rather protecting them from the plants attacks.(this is rather shown in the comics)


though I think this is rather because either the zombies and plants are just able to get massively stronger as the days go on or that popcap is just extremely inconsistent with its game and comic scaling.
 
Plants_vs_zombies_fan101 said:
The one in heroes and gw2 teaches them how to use their powers and become better soldiers.(its what allows zombies like super brainzs to use other heroes superpowers in heroes)
Click to expand...
Since when was that stated? I still also don't see why the academy would be a different one
Plants_vs_zombies_fan101 said:
Tv heads have the sane abilities as regular tv heads(beisdes the respawn and yeti abilities) with them being treated as being the same as every other spawn character
Click to expand...
The fact they have properties of a hero character like regen, respawns, leveling/upgrades already sets them apart from their spawnable version
Plants_vs_zombies_fan101 said:
its rather because they are trained to be better than the advantage zombies(which is why regular zombies can still keep up with them) with their armor rather protecting them from the plants attacks.(this is rather shown in the comics)
Click to expand...
That's just their helmets that excludes the rest of their body, there's also scientists and engineer that don't wear any body armour and are still comparable
Plants_vs_zombies_fan101 said:
though I think this is rather because either the zombies and plants are just able to get massively stronger as the days go on or that popcap is just extremely inconsistent with its game and comic scaling.
Click to expand...
Much more likely to be the second, the people behind the GW games, comics, and heroes are all different with their own views and interpretations of the franchise, which leads to many inconsistencies.
 
Ednaxel2 said:
Since when was that stated? I still also don't see why the academy would be a different one
Click to expand...
Thinking Cap | Plants vs. Zombies Wiki | Fandom https://share.google/TEidpW1V0DdgVzsrm
Ednaxel2 said:
The fact they have properties of a hero character like regen, respawns, leveling/upgrades already sets them apart from their spawnable version
Click to expand...
The upgrades is rather from following 80s action hero steps to improve themselves(in the bfn comic he wanted to teach all the zombies these steps but zomboss refused to let him do it because they are all mostly idiots) which is why he can only teach the hero zombies these steps when they actually go to him for help with respawning kinds being debatable.(i am still finding evidence that could imply this applies to all the plants and zombies) so i will likely put this on hold.
Ednaxel2 said:
That's just their helmets that excludes the rest of their body, there's also scientists and engineer that don't wear any body armour and are still comparable
Click to expand...
That seems to be rather an game thing though(so that's minus an point for me)
Ednaxel2 said:
Much more likely to be the second, the people behind the GW games, comics, and heroes are all different with their own views and interpretations of the franchise, which leads to many inconsistencies.
Click to expand...
Also true
 
Plants_vs_zombies_fan101 said:
The upgrades is rather from following 80s action hero steps to improve themselves(in the bfn comic he wanted to teach all the zombies these steps but zomboss refused to let him do it because they are all mostly idiots) which is why he can only teach the hero zombies these steps when they actually go to him for help with respawning kinds being debatable.(i am still finding evidence that could imply this applies to all the plants and zombies) so i will likely put this on hold.
Click to expand...
That seems like a stretch can you provide scans on these improvements being upgrades? I don’t see how that changes the point of the playable and spawnable version of the character having unique sets of abilities, and the upgrades can still be gained in the main game just through playing it and through obtaining xp
 
Ednaxel2 said:
That seems like a stretch can you provide scans on these improvements being upgrades? I don’t see how that changes the point of the playable and spawnable version of the character having unique sets of abilities, and the upgrades can still be gained in the main game just through playing it and through obtaining xp
Click to expand...
In Page 9 and in game its just implied the zombies are taking his prpblem on self improvement to get better at fighting
 
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