The Godhead/The Amaranth — An Issue

[HigashikataJobin]

Recently, it was agreed that the Godhead from TES would qualify to the new tier 0 on this wiki. While I, too, agreed with such proposal, today I was doing a very deep dive into TES cosmology and I have found this.

It is a reddit post at the r/teslore subreddit, in which the OP discuss about his interpretation regarding the Amaranth. It is a very fun reading, and in it, the OP basically propose that there are multiple Amaranths. Acutally, they say that it can have an infinite number of them.

C0das in Anu's Dream appear to have something to do with the absence of Memory. Anu's Dream is amnesiac. It can't remember the difference between the hypothetical and the real, between the fiction and the non-fiction. Stories exist in Anu's Dream, stories are reality, to the point that even if something once wasn't "just a story," it definitely is now and, paradoxically, always was. So the c0da depicted in C0DA, then, probably was the "original" timeline from which all other c0das diverge, but its own events render that distinction meaningless.

Further, it's possible for c0das to converge and diverge and interact freely, just like cross-over fiction and spin-offs and so on. Of course, that also implies the existence of corresponding c0das which do not interact with each other.

(There could be, and probably are given the infinite nature of the Godhead, other Dreams with phenomena like or identical to c0das.)

Between the omnipresent laws of the Godhead, the infinite variation of c0das, and the general structure of the Aurbis and its subgradients within most of those c0das, I think Anu's Dream is an incredibly prolific one. Not only does every single entity get infinite chances at discovering the Godhead, but every single entity actually succeeds in an infinite number of those attempts (which is contained within the greater infinite set of c0das in which they do not). From the perspective of any given single c0da and its denizens, there are very few entities who achieved CHIM, let alone Amaranth (the infinite variations of Vivec, Talos, possibly Jubal among them, because they were present in the original from which most are patterned). But, if you regard the whole, you've got infinite Amaranths, Amaranths for days.

Now, what is the objective with this thread and what does this users worldview and theories have to do with the currently Godhead on the Wiki? Well, because MK himself agrees with this user worldview.

Well done.

Just a single, short comment from Michael wouldn't be much to confirm that he agress with this. However, the OPs explanation about his theories actually scratch itself through multiple posts, and in more than one, MK doesn't disagree with anything so far.

Meanwhile, in the real Akavir-- you know, the one you'll actually hear about and see? As opposed to the, y'know, something something Gift & Burden nonsense?-- you'll be happy to see your stuff eventually coming to light, u/MareloRyan.

Here too.

Huge fan of these, dudesperson. In your copious free time, y'think you might archive these on tomorrowindtoday or keep passing them along to memospore at the gmail dot com?

This thread isn't a direct try to debunk the currently tier 0 Amaranth/Godhead. However, after I've seen those responses from the man himself, I felt compeled to do this thread, since it's very important to adress this. Do you guys think that this is a huge condratiction with tier 0 Amaranth through WoG? Or that this isn't a solid evidence?

 

[HigashikataJobin]

the anti feats are being discussed here

Anu Rework for a big TES CRT in the future.

SO I was working on a specivic character that I'm working at. I wanted to update Anu since he is tier 0 and since we can't have two Tier 0s, Maybe you can help me on what to do for it. My sandboxes: https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User:Re5yh/anu...

vsbattles.com

Have read briefly through the thread.

What I posted here now — MK's comments — weren't adressed previously on this thread, and the discussion happened before tier 0 Amaranth was approved.

I think it's better to maintain this thread, since I've never seen anyone talk about those comments made by Michael ever in any TES scalling discussion, and so they should be viewed by the supporters because of their importance and discussed here.

 

[HigashikataJobin]

Also, there's this comment by MK stating that Akavir became the new Amaranth, which happens to coincide with the worldview posted by the OP.

 

[FriendOfTheTeaParty]

I find it very weird that you're trying to use a writer liking and engaging with fan made works as an anti-feat. Kirkbride is known for letting his stuff being open to interpretation and all.

 

[HigashikataJobin]

I find it very weird that you're trying to use a writer liking and engaging with fan made works as an anti-feat. Kirkbride is known for letting his stuff being open to interpretation and all.

I didn't say it was an anti-feat. This thread exists specifically to discuss if those comments have an impact with the currenty rating for Amaranth or not.

 

[FaxNovuuuuu]

Also, there's this comment by MK stating that Akavir became the new Amaranth, which happens to coincide with the worldview posted by the OP.

This was retconned heavy and this wouldn’t even make sense. Akavir is literally just a landmass on Nirn lmao. Things like Tosh Raka being the son of Jubal…or something. Which makes no sense because Tosh Raka is an aspect of Akatosh — meaning… nvm lol. But you can see why this is quite silly

 

[FaxNovuuuuu]

I should also mention that simply because MK says “well done” or something of the sorts, doesn’t mean that it was his intention. He just likes interacting with the fans and seeing their interpretations because he always believe that the very concept of “canon” was nonsensical, and didn’t really exist in the elder scrolls (and he’s kinda right) but he believes it’s open source. So he’s just interacting with the fans and appreciating their interpretations rather than actually saying that this specific fan’s comment is particularly true.

 

[HigashikataJobin]

I should also mention that simply because MK says “well done” or something of the sorts, doesn’t mean that it was his intention. He just likes interacting with the fans and seeing their interpretations because he always believe that the very concept of “canon” was nonsensical, and didn’t really exist in the elder scrolls (and he’s kinda right) but he believes it’s open source. So he’s just interacting with the fans and appreciating their interpretations rather than actually saying that this specific fan’s comment is particularly true.

Hmm, yes, Kirkbride indeed says that all of his works are open to interpretation. And also, even though there's the case with Jubal and Vivec in C0DA, this isn't canon to the current Bethesda views of the universe.

Should this thread be closed them? Genuinely asking to you and the rest of the supporters. I really though at first that this was WoG, since the original OPs post was heavily coherent with MKs worldview for the original TES universe.

 

[FaxNovuuuuu]

Hmm, yes, Kirkbride indeed says that all of his works are open to interpretation. And also, even though there's the case with Jubal and Vivec in C0DA, this isn't canon to the current Bethesda views of the universe.

Should this thread be closed them? Genuinely asking to you and the rest of the supporters. I really though at first that this was WoG, since the original OPs post was heavily coherent with MKs worldview for the original TES universe.

Well, we use Kirkbride (most of the time) because often times he’s right but we mainly use authoritative comments from him. For instance, c0Da wasn’t considered official on here until sermon 37 and the new DLCs referenced it repeatedly. Same thing with his comments about there being infinite wheels within wheels which is so later confirmed multiple times. A lot of what he says turns out to be factually accurate and a lot of the things he says, for the most part are literally just him breaking down lore that he wrote that’s been around since Redguard and Morrowind. For instance, The Thief Goes to Cyrodil is literally just a “short” break down of the 36 lessons (36 lessons for dummies) where he makes it simple for us. Same with the Loveletter from the 5th Era. It’s nothing new, but lore that has BEEN in the game. Honestly, C0DA doesn’t really add anything new, just being the culmination of the Morrowind lore.

So there would all be considered accurate word of God or at the bare minimum, secondary sources. So you can use him, especially if it’s backed up in the Lore/Game, but just be sure it’s an authority-like statement instead of a vague “Well done” as it can simply be him being active with the fans. I hope this made sense.

As for closing it, it’s up to you. Those are my two cents. If you want, you can await others.

 

[Re5yh]

Leave Uutak Mythos alone, let the real canon stay and Anu will be downgraded to High 1-A+

 

[Hjdjdhf]

Leave Uutak Mythos alone, let the real canon stay and Anu will be downgraded to High 1-A+

Hope it can be resolved soon

 

[Re5yh]

Well, we use Kirkbride (most of the time) because often times he’s right but we mainly use authoritative comments from him. For instance, c0Da wasn’t considered official on here until sermon 37 and the new DLCs referenced it repeatedly. Same thing with his comments about there being infinite wheels within wheels which is so later confirmed multiple times. A lot of what he says turns out to be factually accurate and a lot of the things he says, for the most part are literally just him breaking down lore that he wrote that’s been around since Redguard and Morrowind. For instance, The Thief Goes to Cyrodil is literally just a “short” break down of the 36 lessons (36 lessons for dummies) where he makes it simple for us. Same with the Loveletter from the 5th Era. It’s nothing new, but lore that has BEEN in the game. Honestly, C0DA doesn’t really add anything new, just being the culmination of the Morrowind lore.

So there would all be considered accurate word of God or at the bare minimum, secondary sources. So you can use him, especially if it’s backed up in the Lore/Game, but just be sure it’s an authority-like statement instead of a vague “Well done” as it can simply be him being active with the fans. I hope this made sense.

As for closing it, it’s up to you. Those are my two cents. If you want, you can await others.

Using Kirkbride's reddit posts doesn't really work out, cause this is just fan theories that the TES fans were making, like how Game theory is. I don't agree with infinite Amaranths anymore, but I do want Anu to be removed from Tier 0 forever

 

[FaxNovuuuuu]

Using Kirkbride's reddit posts doesn't really work out, cause this is just fan theories that the TES fans were making, like how Game theory is. I don't agree with infinite Amaranths anymore, but I do want Anu to be removed from Tier 0 forever

You can use Kirkbride posts if they line up and are authoritative as I said. But fan theories that he replies to are iffy at best without being backed up.

 

[Re5yh]

Bump

 

[Deonment]

This doesn't really contradict much regarding the tier 0 status of TES, as it is less that there are Infinite Amaranths and more an infinite number of people who achieve Amaranth, they still all "become" the same being, so nothing really changes (without even taking into account the above discussion)

 

[Re5yh]

Bump

 

[RigelBR7]

Agree