Why did you quote the UES page as if that changes a single thing I said or helps support your point?
When he almost died like he unblocked the infinite rotation it was against funny Valentine so tell me show me that the infinite rotation almost killed him
What are you even talking about?
He almost died when Diego made the IR HIT his own body? Johnny himself literally says he's screwed and is only saved because Steven Steel shows up and enables Johnny to hit himself with another IR in the opposite direction to cancel it, but all the same, Johnny having IR in his body literally almost killed him, was going to kill him without external aid, and made him lose the whole race.
But uh, yeah sure ok, show you it right?
Please do not make me send basic plot points, this isn't the type of thing you just forget or misremember.
I don't know if you read that right, but Araki made it clear that the simple technique went into stand so that once the energy of the balls is mastered the latter turns into a stand
Is this your argument? Really? "No bro you just didn't read it right"?
This isn't good enough, in that same vain I can say the same to you, you simply didn't read it right, ergo you don't have an argument or point to make.
Regardless, you're conflating the mastering of a concept enabling one to develop a Stand, with that concept itself becoming a Stand, they're not the same thing. In much the same way Pearl Jam isn't literally cooking, Dragon's Dream isn't literally Feng Shui, Hermit Purple isn't literally Hamon, and more, a Stand that utilizes Spin and is the end result of its mastery, isn't the same as that very concept itself literally being a Stand.
And to conclude this explanation, here is a statement that directly explains how rotational energy is comparable to that of a Stand. Note that this fact is backed up by what was previously said.
"Accumulated 'experience' is the strength of 'technology'. The technology built up by the Zeppeli tribe was comparable to the Stand ability. if Gyro mastered the balls to make gyro a stand
Jesus that's a bad translation, you didn't even like... Could you at least edit the MT or some shit first so it's actually readable in the language you're trying to argue it? Well not that it's needed, you're obviously trying to quote JoJoveller, Ball Breaker's page in particular. In which case, it's just saying, much like many, many other cases, that Gyro's mastery of the art that is Spin, eventually let him develop a Stand ability, no different from Joseph or Tonio.
That second line is too. I'm going to give you benefit of the doubt here and assume you're just misreading it due to the faulty translation, but it means that in a literal combative sense, as in "Gyro's ability to use Spin is an ability on par with Stands",
しかし研鑽を重ねた技術について, スタンド能力に近づくことは可能であった.
However, with techniques honed through sustained training, it was possible to approach the realm of Stand abilities.
第1~2部に登場した波紋法や第7部の鉄球技術がそれに限りなく近い技術であり, 使い手たちは超常的な存在に対してそれを武器に立ち向かっていた.
The Ripple method from Parts 1-2 and the Steel Ball technique from Part 7 are techniques that get virtually as close as possible to that, and their users stood up to supernatural beings using them as weapons.
it's actually, ironically, differentiating Spin from Stands, they're two very different things, yet despite being different, they're comparable in terms of "yeah they're supernatural powers", and with Spin, Gyro can fight Stand Users. This isn't even just a guide quote either, they explain this in Part 7 itself, saying Gyro's steel balls, while not a Stand ability inherently, is its own superhuman power that is comparable to the concept of a Stand, putting him on nigh-equal footing.
It is inspired by nature and by being inspired we learn to have infinite power all this through the mastery of golden rotation. From the lower body by transmitting the energy acquired through the hips, shoulders, elbows, wrists and fingers we unlock an invincible power as Gyro says.
End up talking more below, you're conflating the horse energy with the infinite energy, and moreover conflating that with the golden scale which in itself not anything.
Second, Ta4 can channel rotational energy through Valentine's body to inflict damage. If Ta4 can channel rotational energy through other people's bodies, it makes sense that he can do so through his own body.
Not how this works. You need to prove he can channel it into his own body to amplify physical strength by uh, literal infinity. This isn't the type of thing you just assume because he can use that energy to omega kill other people. The worst part is, even if we went your conjecture route, that wouldn't grant him a infinite stat amp, it'd just mean he can imbue himself with it which uh, yuh huh, or at worst, that he can also kill himself with it, which, funnily enough...
It is inspired by nature and by being inspired we learn to have infinite power all this through the mastery of golden rotation. From the lower body by transmitting the energy acquired through the hips, shoulders, elbows, wrists and fingers we unlock an invincible power as Gyro says.
A throwing technique isn't "yo btw everything ever has infinite energy lol", I legitimately shouldn't have to explain this to you.
And you're absolutely factually incorrect on this front, at this point you're not even arguing Act 4 has infinite power, you're arguing
Act 2 has infinite power. Which, it doesn't? It's just a few times (stated) stronger than Act 1, which is most certainly not Uni+, hell you're lucky if it's even past 9-B. Characters like Diego can tank it, steel balls can tank it, it's actually super weak, and needless to say super weak Stand that's very much finite x idk 3 ig going by wiki standards =/= Infinity.
Not really divisible like that.
Second, Ta4 can channel rotational energy through Valentine's body to inflict damage. If Ta4 can channel rotational energy through other people's bodies, it makes sense that he can do so through his own body.
Not how this works. You need to prove Act 4 can channel that energy to magnify its physical stats proportionally. The fact it can be used on others has absolutely no bearing on your claim, they're not even remotely comparable, it'd be like arguing a dude can shoot lightning and fry someone, so they must be capable of taking that lightning and channeling it through themselves instead to get physical strength on par with a lightning bolt, which, no, not happening.
Furthermore, even if he could, it wouldn't scale to physicals, it'd just mean he can imbue himself with it (which yeah no shit), but that doesn't mean he's boxing that hard, in fact we SEE him box, he's like 8-C or something, he manhandles D4C.
Give me proof that Johnny can die because of this
Uh ok? Wow that was hard
because Johnny has passed through Valentine's body the Rotational energy to cause him damage so if how he does it to himself it is illogical but it is logical that can let him pass through his body in any case he is not dead so no Theory
I legit can't parse this wtf are you saying?
Literally everything, that's how this works.
But amplification is part of the SIU definition that is factual: "There must therefore be evidence that an increase in power/energy corresponds to a proportional increase in the power of its physical statistics." Here it is said word for word So if Johnny evolved into a Therme if ta read the panels his statistics were amplified as dis in the panel via his Rotational energy
I ACTUALLY don't know what you're saying, english evidently isn't your first language. And while usually I can kind of deduce the intent from context but it's way to broken here.
Why are you quoting a part of our rules that say there
must be evidence that the power/energy corresponds to a proportional physical amp? Yeah it's true, so
you need to actually do that. You haven't you're just making disconnect points that have absolutely nothing to do with actually proving it.
Actually wait I think I figured it out while typing, you're arguing that because Tusk Act 4 got stronger than Act 3, that's the evidence? Jesus christ no dude, Act 4 is stronger than Act 3, because it's a power type Stand now. You're trying to use that as evidence of an INFINITE physical boost? The keyword there is
proportional, a 9-A dude jumping up to like 8-C, and then punching this other 9-A+/8-C like twenty times, is not "this 9-A became High 3-A physically".
And of course not, because they never once say what you're trying to frame it as, in fact all they ever say, is that Act 4 is no longer hiding behind Johnny because it's finally battle-ready (implying that Act 1-3 were, well, not battle-ready and moreover weaker than Johnny himself, which doesn't align with your argumentation here given Tusk had been using the golden rotation since Act 2, which you've been arguing is infinite and thus Tusk Act 2 should be high 3-A physically as well).
But it is literally said in front of your eyes lol that it is via its rotational energy so if it has evolved its stand also because its energy is the stand by dint of evolving with the rotating energy it will transform into tusk act 4
This is akin saying because Rohan's Stand evolved due to his mastery over manga, it must literally be manga itself, or how Tonio's Stand evolved by getting better at cooking, it must be the abstract concept of cooking, or the dozens of other Stands that grow when someone masters or gets better at a thing.
What's
actually said isn't even what you're claiming either, so your comment there isn't even applicable, if anything I should be saying the same to you but as it stands.
This contradicts nothing at all because if his techniques are not via rotation but for Example Tusk act 4 Araki said that he evolved via rotation which is totally different from what you say so not if it is statistical remains unchanged this is not a contradiction Son ues has not developed but for tusk act 4 if the stats have increased enormously
This is extremely difficult to understand.
It contradicts your very claim. You've mentioned multiple times that because it evolved via golden rotation, and that rotation is infinite, that it must scale to its physical stats infinitely.
Yet, Tusk Act 2, and moreover 3, both use the very rotation you're trying to argue is infinite that is based in nature, as part of your premise.
Despite this fact, Tusk Act 2 and 3 are both physically weaker than Johnny, and can not actually partake in combat themselves. This alone throws your entire argument out the window, what you claim to be a thing is simply not true, but it goes even further. Act 3, something you claimed got a bunch stronger, didn't get any stronger at all from what we know, instead its ability expanded, and that's despite gaining a power symbolic of infinity that spirals down forever, infinitely, to even the gaps between dimensions.
Which
also means that your claim "it evolved because of rotation so it scales to the rotation", isn't true either as we have explicit examples, from the SAME character mind you, where it evolving due to rotation (which is a gross simplification as it is), does not effect its physicality in the slightest.
I'm just going to guess what you're trying to argue because goddamn.
And yet because Act 4 is now physically strong, for reasons completely unrelated to what you're trying to argue, and thus its punches scale to infinity? Nah chat say sike.
This is actually as if you argued Star Platinum learned how to effect time, and because he got stronger physically and could kill TW, he must scale to time now and be like low 2-C.
Headcanon and conjecture is not evidence, frame it however you want, but most of what you're saying just factually isn't the case, and the wee bit that's open to interpretation, is exactly that, interpretation, not actual solid evidence, of which none of the "wee bits" would even lead to the end result you're trying to propose anyhow.
after the rotational energy has been channeled through the body of ta3,
They never actually say that, or show it actually, he manifested the IR before summoning his Stand thinking on it. You're extrapolating.
Yep it did indeed evolve into Act 4, wow.
and as these (basic statistics) scans empirically prove,
Why are you just saying words now
ta4 has better physical statistics than ta3.
Yes, it does, but not because the IR was buffing him, not because he was buffed by spin, he is simply a combat ready Stand now, in the same way Echoes Act 1 is weaker than a human, but Echoes Act 3 is vastly superhuman and a combative type Stand (even changing classification from a long-range Stand, to a short-distance type when elevating Acts, much like Tusk becomes a power-type). Act 4 had evolved past cowardice and is now cool or something ig, it be like that.
It is therefore logical and true to say that the channeling of rotational energy through Tusk's body had an impact on his physical statistics and improved them.
No, stop that shit, ignoring your premise here isn't even true, you're just guessing "how" it evolved and saying "it channeled this energy through his stand", which is not only never stated, but had
never been the case.
In every single act evolution up to this, it was either due to a breakthrough in his own spiritual growth (Which would coincide with this statement referring to how Act's grow actually "精神が成長することで, その像も大きく変化を遂げるという, 稀有なパターンもある./There are also rare cases where its appearance undergoes significant changes as the spirit grows."), or he spun his
nails themselves under the new style of rotation, as seen with Act 2 and uh, Act 4, like idk why you're guessing here.
But even if it was true, which, it is not, its physical increase isn't even remotely infinite, so how in the world are you concluding all these assumptions somehow lead to the very blatantly not true conclusion in the first place?
So rotational energy is a universal energy system. But it just makes sense that his raw statistics are increased because the statistics are raw whether it's in the VSBW or Part 7 but it's statistics have increased via his rotational energy which fits well into the argument that it's a ues
Again, no, Tusk Act 4's increase in physicality, is not due to the spin itself, and he retains it even while the spin isn't in action simply because his Stand body is just now combat ready.
Even if it were, it does not make it a UES.
And even then you would need to prove said buff is infinite in scale, when it's blatantly not. The fact you can't even get past the first step because the premise of your claim isn't even true, makes this a non-argument.
But Dude Joseph through his breathing has output his energy for the stand and with this energy he can do many things I do not what you say
I have no idea what you just said again so I'm just gonna guess and assume you missed the point completely while simultaneously repeating exactly what I just said and thus accidentally agreed with my point.
No, because it never says it's a visualization of energy because the stand is even an energy so your case I don't know what it means but in my panel "It's a visualization of the energy of Gyro's iron ball, able to cross dimensions. This iron ball technology also later became a Stand power. I made it appear to explain this." That is to say that the Ball is a Gyro output
Chat I don't know wtf he's trying to say...
You have not yet understood that basic iron balls are a technique he had no Devil's Palms
Yuh huh ok.
or as you want he had because he mastered rotational energy
You yourself quite literally posted one saying it's because he mastered it, what we are we doing here, have we lost the plot that badly
I use deepl and if the word transcandancer of derange it is that Gyro as you must know his stand crosses the dimensions
I don't care, if you aren't 100% sure of what it says, you ask someone who you know could tell you. I shouldn't have to be forced to argue faulty points simply because from the looks it, you machine translated it, and then
did it again.
And it is never said that If you master something you have a stand
This is actually extremely basic universal Stand shit on par with them not being visible or untouchable.
技術からスタンドへ
生まれついての能力者や「弓と矢」などに才能を引き出されたのではなく, 技術を磨くうちに適性が無意識に芽生えてスタンド使いとなった者たちもいる.
Apart from those born with abilities or awakened by tools like the Bow and Arrow, there are also people who, while honing their techniques, unconsciously developed the aptitude and became Stand users.
彼らのスタンド能力は一風変わった効果を持ち, また, 職業などに根ざしたものの場合も多い.
Their Stand abilities often have unusual effects and are frequently rooted in their occupations and the like.
第5部に登場した彫刻家のスコリッピ. 芸術家としての資質が, 無意識のうちにスタンドを発動.
Scolippi, a sculptor who appears in Part 5. His qualities as an artist unconsciously triggered his Stand.
The absolute hilarious part of this, is those lines are part of a larger yap explaining about how GYRO SPECIFICALLY falls under this.
it is just inspired by it is transmitted either via the Arrow or the family but if we take Heavens the door it is Via the Arrow it has nothing of the mastered just the Arrow but Gyro he has mastered the rotational energy to go to Stand it is totally different, so you bring no argument and say the words of the Arrow Things without evidence
Hey so, given you obviously know this scan exists as you're using it in your own argument, here's the full yap.
スタンド能力は選ばれた者だけが持つ強力な才能であり, ごく普通の人間に対抗する術はない.
Stand abilities are a powerful talent possessed only by the chosen, and ordinary people have no means to oppose them.
しかし研鑽を重ねた技術について, スタンド能力に近づくことは可能であった.
However, with techniques honed through sustained training, it was possible to approach the realm of Stand abilities.
第1~2部に登場した波紋法や第7部の鉄球技術がそれに限りなく近い技術であり, 使い手たちは超常的な存在に対してそれを武器に立ち向かっていた.
The Ripple method from Parts 1-2 and the Steel Ball technique from Part 7 are techniques that get virtually as close as possible to that, and their users stood up to supernatural beings using them as weapons.
特殊な呼吸法により, 吸血鬼に対抗するためのエネルギーを生み出す波紋法.
The Ripple method, which, through a special breathing technique, produces energy to oppose vampires.
積み重ねられた"経験"こそが"技術"の極みである. ツェペリ一族の築き上げた技術はスタンド能力に匹敵した.
Accumulated "experience" is the very pinnacle of "technique." The techniques built by the Zeppeli family rivaled Stand abilities.
無敵とも思える回避性能を持つD4Cに対して, ジャイロは"技術"で失鋒させることに成功している.
Against D4C, whose evasive ability could be called invincible, Gyro succeeded—by "technique"—in blunting its edge.
生まれついての能力者や"弓と矢"などに才能を引き出されたのではなく, 技術を磨くうちに適性が無意識に芽生えてスタンド使いとなった者たちもいる.
Apart from those born with abilities or awakened by tools like the Bow and Arrow, there are also people who, while honing their techniques, unconsciously developed the aptitude and became Stand users.
彼らのスタンド能力は一風変わった効果を持ち, また, 職業などに根ざしたものの場合も多い.
Their Stand abilities often have unusual effects and are frequently rooted in their occupations and the like.
第5部に登場した彫刻家のスコリッピ. 芸術家としての資質が, 無意識のうちにスタンドを発動.
Scolippi, a sculptor who appears in Part 5. His qualities as an artist unconsciously triggered his Stand.
So, ya know, as I was SAYING.
Spin isn't a Stand, your constant claiming "oh it says it's a Stand and is comparable", it's literally just saying functionally it and Hamon are supernatural powers as close as possible to Stands and let them fight supernatural forces too.
It very clearly places Spin as a concept as something different from Stands.
And moreover explains very clearly that mastering one's craft leads to gaining a Stand ability, often rooted in said thing. Gyro, again, is hard confirmed to be one of these cases. But it applies to ANYTHING, other hard examples include Scolippi with artistry, Aya with uh idk what you call that shit but the beauty stuff, Tonio with cooking, Kendo with Feng Shui, and I used Rohan as an example due to the retcon from Rohan at the louvre, but he still applies even pre-retcon as his Stand evolves further as he grows as a mangaka regardless.
And mind you, this isn't news, this isn't subtle, they say this in the manga itself at points, and there's other statements repeating it too, and in some cases, going even deeper in detail stating it, but this one is just oddly topical because it undermines your entire claim by throwing Gyro in there too.
Yes before But if you read Gyro well again by mastering Rotational energy he evolved into a stand becoming a street. To continue in this vein, my claims are perfectly supported by the following scans, which explain word for word how, once the energy is mastered to perfection, one obtains the ability to have a stand.
"Ripple/Iron Ball Method.
Stand power is a powerful talent that only the elect possess, and it is impossible to compete with ordinary humans. However, it is possible to get closer to the power of a Stand through "techniques" that have been perfected. The Ripple method that appeared in Parts 1 and 2 and the iron ball technique in Part 7 are very similar to the Stand, and users use them as weapons against paranormal beings."
So the rotational energy turned it into a stand
As above, why did you leave out the following lines that clarify it further and go "there are also people who, while honing their techniques, unconsciously developed the aptitude and became Stand users. Their Stand abilities often have unusual effects and are frequently rooted in their occupations and the like.".
You're ignoring the fact that anyone, ever, upon mastering a thing, can gain a Stand, but that Stand isn't literally the thing in question, they simply developed a Stand that makes use of their mastered talents. In the same way Cinderella or Pearl Jam, make use of said talents, but aren't the literal embodiment of uh i forget and cooking, but rather act as a conduit to make use of said talents, Tusk itself is not the spin, (it's a corpse part guardian), Gyro's Stand using Spin doesn't mean it punches that hard (in fact, the actual Stand body itself only has a B in power), and a whole slew of other things. You're just kind of cherry picking lines, framing them disingenuously, or just saying stuff that simply isn't true, and then combining all three to conclude a point.
Bro you're funny, what does this have to do with mastering gyro and others? I speak for Gyro, Gyro has mastered his rotational energy Then his Les Boules have become stand
Because it's the
exact same concept. Why you're being dishonest I don't know given you're evidently aware of the source of your own statements, that also undermine you like one sentence later.
Excuse me your secondary canon means what and in any case these stands form the UES So no logic to what you also say secondary canon means what and proves it because in any case it is canon so we can use it as proof
Again, no idea what you're saying but the fact you replied to that I'm going to assume you're disagreeing.
Tough luck, you need to prove it's canon, explicitly. Genesis can't be canon, it simply doesn't fit, and there's not actually any statements anywhere placing it as canon, and nor has it been in any of the recent timelines like from JoJo magazine. Technically speaking it hasn't even been mentioned in a single piece of media in about 25 years even off hand just to say it came out.
The worst part is, even if it was canon, what you're trying to use from it doesn't support your claim anyway, like yeah Stand energy is a thing, that doesn't mean it's a UES? In fact it's explicitly not, kind of odd you just conveniently opted to ignore the explicit contradictions but shrug.
Bro if the stand can hit a wall and the broken one is physical because the Wall is physical, it hits and destroys it, so the stand is a physical manifestation and the very definition of the word is about the human body (as opposed to moral, psychic).
What? Why in tf is a wall being a physical object mean anything for what a Stand is? Stands aren't physical, they're not corporal, they're intangible spiritual entities that can't be interacted with by the world at large yet can do so in return, it's a one-way street.
But all the same, they're very much not physical, explicitly, they lack a physical form. Goddamn maybe I should free the Stand blog at this rate and slap it on the profiles...
And this debunk nothing at all And they are immaterial untouchable to bad humans and give me your translation you debunk nothing
What the ACTUAL **** is this dude saying
Imao bro the vsbw is in favor with my argument because it says "If the power source or the universal energy system was taken away from a user by any means, it should lead to a noticeable loss of physical strength," my panel makes it clear that the stand dies the user too and you don't even have debunk
Yeah and if you rip someone's soul out they'd die too?
Or drained them of all their blood.
Or their life force.
And oh hey, Stands count as two of those?
This is one of the most basic fallacies known to man. It's the same as saying "rhino's have horns", "narwhals have horns", so "rhino's must be narwhals", due to sharing a single facet.
And debunk? Dude you haven't actually proven anything, and if you DID prove it, why the hell would I debunk it? If it's right, it's right, but unfortunately you haven't actually done that, you're making disconnected claims, and framing things to means stuff they absolutely don't. Like what's next, Stands can't be touched so they must have NEP too?
And not to mention "loss of strength" doesn't work here, because they straight up die, and they explain in detail why they die mind you. You just conveniently ignored that part once again. They die because if the Stand dies, the user dies, and vice versa, because it's the manifestation of their soul, they're one in the same, it's also why damage reflects too. No idea how you're framing the most basic rules of Stands as being a UES.
Bro I don't know if you don't want to read but I've shown the proofs that he also wrote the sound so don't act as if you don't want to know by whom it was written or it's wrong.
I didn't think this needed to be said, but I'm calling your "proofs", wrong, taken out of context, some cases even suspiciously removed some lines preceding or following it, somehow completely misinterpreted, or don't even say what you claim they do in the first place, that is to say, very much not sufficient.
This is bad times I bring proof that you don't even debunk and you say false things
Oh boy, you do not want to go down the path, because unlike the obscure part 3 novel, I very much can, and have, the entirety of Part 7 raw on hand.
You didn't show how it wouldn't be canonical, but if the story happens during part 3 and it's about dio. There was no off series. So yes it makes sense we explain what the stand is why it wouldn't be in the main story?
I straight up gave you time discrepancy examples, the hell you mean I didn't?
The Scribe fight for example literally can't happen, in the novel it takes place the day they arrive in Cairo and lasts till night almost, yet in the manga we know they didn't do anything.
In the Absalom fight, that takes place over multiple days, with Jotaro and Pol even escaping to a village, staying the night, and Jotaro having this moment where he looks at a star over a hill and likens it to the little prince, and then the runback takes so long that by the time they're done, it's night again and he looks back and goes "well damn shit, I see that type of star everywhere, I thought I found the actual place from the story yare yare daze..."
We know this can't be the case, as it if this actually happened, it would push Part 3's ending back by like 2-3 days at least, (actually I checked, they were travelling for 3 days before the start of the fight, so it'd be 5-6 days) yet, as just one of literally dozen examples,
The date of DIO's death has stayed static since before AND after the novel came out, staying the exact same, even though if the novel were to be canon, it'd have been pushed back almost a week to account for the extra days and dead time the novel claims allegedly occurred.
"This is confirmed by the fact that we are asked to read this story as a bonus, which makes it a special edition while fully integrating it into the canon." Don't make shortcuts and how events contradict events give me proof of your advances because I don't see anything
Did this dude legit ong just say blatant contradictions and the fact the novel can't fit is a "shortcut".
Well it doesn't matter, I just gave you DIO's death date. So hell, you get both even, lucky you.
Not that but the power/speed of a stand is directly related to its energy and they are proportional.
No it isn't? A Stand can have low energy, and still be extremely asinine in power?
For example, a nearly dead Star Platinum was able to cripple a almost fresh Killer Queen, with Kira (probably literally) pissing himself as it blitzed him and shattered his bones.
Killer Queen has more energy here, but Star Platinum is just fundamentally stronger as part of its rules and kit.
Same goes for the reverse, A max power Lovers will never be as strong as even a dying Crazy Diamond who had all his limbs chopped off who's at max distance.
So it is via the siu that it is proportional
It's proportional because that's just how Stands work, and only sometimes, and only in specific traits, and it varies between each Stand, to the degree it happens, and some ignore it entirely, and also-
I provide more proof pr Not putting a razor of Hitchen and the canonity of the work is that this point is corroborated by the fact that this story is presented as a bonus, making it a special edition while remaining fully integrated into the canon
Idk what to say here, recent statements have it not able to be placed, and its events contradict how the manga presents the events of Part 3, as well as following material.
Worst part is "bonus" doesn't even remotely mean canon.
I proved to you that the novel had the same storyline but if you talk about the novel of part 3 yes I proved a little further down that it is the same story between the two and in any case I proved it at the top
I would PRAY it had the same story, otherwise it wouldn't even be a JoJo novel?
And no offense, but we clearly have two drastically definitions of what "proof" means.
"At the same time in the manga, in the desert, there was a sort of "time skip" of hours/days to complete a certain journey, and the novel takes place in the desert..." bro here I proved that it was the same plot at the same time why do you want to come back
You just unintentionally pointed out a contradiction to your claim of its canonicity. The actual manga didn't have a time skip, and every source detailing Part 3 afterward, doesn't add one there either to compensate for the novel.
But I don't know why you don't want to agree,
Because it's wrong? What sort of asinine question is that?
knowing that I bring a lot of arguments with Johnnys and Gyro.
Anybody can argue anything, doesn't mean it's right.
Araki explains that if you master the rotational energy the technique evolves on stand
Yes, unfortunately that doesn't mean everything you've been arguing here.
and Johnny thanks to this He evolved in Tusk act 4
Yes, also spiritual growth, but that's beside the point.
and then Gyro explains well that the rotation passes everywhere in the body
Dude he's explaining the throwing technique and the transfer of the HORSE's energy, not the infinite rotation itself.
This proves the quantification and that it walks in the body
The fact you're confusing a basic throwing form explanation with the Infinite Rotation isn't something I'm even able to argue, you're just mixing up basic facts here.
Then you unlock the infinite rotation while taking inspiration from the Golden Rectangle.
That isn't even true? Why are you conflating Act 2 with Act 4 now?
Also again, that's entirely form still, I'm not repeating the Act 2 arguments, see above.
And Gyro once again he has a nice ues if I proved A by B that the stand is a ues.
Association fallacy, false equivalence, like fifty other fallacies, not sure why you think proving a similarity is proof of proving the whole.
Araki said that once the rotational energy was mastered, the latter evolved on stand, he so mastered the rotational energy of the ball that it evolved on stand, so by mastering the energy, be the technique evolved on stand, be the stand itself evolved into a stronger form
Yes, this doesn't prove a UES, it's a basic concept that applies to Stands as a whole. It doesn't support or prove your end claim.
And for Johnny As you said, it's that Tusk act 3 he just mastered other techniques But if we talk about the previous ones and the evolution of tsuk act 4 It's good via rotational energy Because the statistics have increased if you want it I give you back what was above and make the link with what I say
Ignoring the fact your Op literally tried to use Act 3 as proof, and ignoring the fact that you've now conceded it isn't the case with Act 3, despite the further mastering of spin, shooting down your whole premise of the spin directly effecting its physicality, that isn't even true for the previous acts either, none of them matched the spin output physically, kind of why they hid behind Johnny.
Tusk's rotational energy is an physical and universal energy system, first an universal energy system aka ues is an type of energy that scale equally all of ur physical stats, the caracteristic of Ues is an energy that channel through ur own body and enhances ur physical stats
Problem there lil buddy, you need to
prove that still. Just saying it is and then saying because it is, this other thing must be true, isn't how this works.
Spin isn't a physical energy system, never has, never will be, they establish very clearly even.
Spin technically isn't even a UES, it'd be like calling kinetic energy a UES, it's just a force of nature.
You just admitted that Tusk Act 3 doesn't scale equally with its physical stats, despite having golden rotation spin, so do tell why you're immediately backpedaling?
And again, you haven't even given a single piece of evidence for the "enhances up physical stats" part, they never say this, they don't even show it, in fact they show a very much not infinite Stand tanking multiple blows from it
This is your High 3-A physical Stand? Because it has the ability to make use of this other thing? You're legitimately doing the equivalent of trying to argue BTD or Time Skip scales to physicals because "UES".
And funnily enough, they even show Act 4 just chilling without being used as a conduit of the IR
It being a power type Stand, and not being top 5 weakest Stands now, doesn't mean its punches are being amped by the IR, let alone proportionately to High 3-A.
For my first argument i will prove that rotational energy channel through johnnys body, first is this narrator statement explaining verbatim how rotational energy channel through gyro's body :
His energy is transmitted from his lower body to his waist, shoulders, elbows, wrists, and fingers, and his entire body rotates, giving him unbeatable rotational power.
Dude, it's talking about the horse's energy, not the infinite energy, which, they need, to create said infinite energy in the first place. They're two completely different things, you're conflating them.
He learns the "infinite scale" from nature
Bro you can learn that shit from an Art Class too, you know the golden ratio is an actual thing right?
to back up this argument i will use 2 facts, first, that golden rectangle ( representation of rotational energy in nature ) exists in everything on the universe,
Ok so you DO know what the golden ratio is. No, it
isn't representation of infinite energy that exists in everything in the universe.
It's literally just a scale, and because said scale can spiral infinitely throwing it in that ratio heightens the spin's power. You're acting like everything just has infinite energy because proportions?
This isn't complex, or even subtle, he straight up explains what it is. It is simply a scale, most things in nature are in the form of this scale, and simply using it as a
reference as in a form/scale that what they're spinning is spun on, does heighten its power. This doesn't mean, obviously, that everything ever contains infinite whatever, this is literally an actual thing he's talking about that just applies to his technique specifically because it involves spirals.
including johnnys and ta4s bodies, second is that ta4 can make rotational energy channel through valentine's body to damage him, if ta4 can make R.E channel through other peoples bodies, it is logical that he can within his own body
here
Already went through this. You're conflating the horse with the infinite rotation, you're just guessing on the rest, and you're even ignoring how Johnny actually touching the infinite rotation is fatal for him.
For my second argument i will prove that rotational energy enhanced tusk's physical stats, wich would drawn us to the logical conclusion that the rotational energy that channel through tusk and johnnys bodies is an universal and physical energy system, the proof is simple, as stated multiple time rotational energy is reponsible for the evolution of ta3 into ta4 :
“Zeppeli tribe aimed at a Form of "Infinite Pursuit"Gyro's birthplace, Tepe The Lee tribe says there is no limit to iron ball technology. I was trying to apply the concept. Rectangular with ratio 1:1.618 If you rotate it correctly inside, “Yellow.” A locus of a gold rectangle was born, and no Limited rotational energy can be obtained. Johnny's tusk evolved significantly with this rotation.”
Someone decode this for me.
now using pure logic, after rotational energy channeled through ta3's body, he evolved into ta4, and as empirically proved by these scans ( stand stats one ) ta4 has better physical stats than ta3, hence it is logical and true to assert that the channeling of rotational energy through tusk's body impacted and enhanced his physical stats, thus rotational energy is an universal energy system
here
The IR wasn't channeled through TA3's body, but rather the nail, same with TA2.
It evolving was due to both spiritual growth and maturity (this is literally the plot of Part 7, the opening AND ending lines even) along with mastering Spin.
It has stronger stats, because it's just a stronger Stand, it's actually that simple.
Tusk Act's 4 physicality is the same whether it's using the infinite rotation or not, we actually see this, twice.
Furthermore your conclusion as to why this must even be a thing to begin with is actively contradicted as Tusk 2 and 3 don't gain physical boosts, and Stands growing from mastery is literally part of the Stand rules it's not even unique.
To back up and prove this principle within the manga, it is said (when Star Platinum was removed from Jotaro) that Jotaro is "dead," rather than neither dead nor alive, but only Jolyne (his daughter) claims that if he regained his Stand, he would "come back to life."
here
What? He literally flatout died, they had to freeze his body so it didn't decay.
There was no "neither dead nor alive" it was "holy shit he just had his soul ripped out" and then he died, and they had to freeze the corpse till they could put his soul back in.
Why this even matters here is beyond me though.
So now exploded time must show that he is tired Kira?
Uh, hell yeah dude? Unless you want to argue pathetic feats that aren't even 9-B are actually High 3-A because they take more Stand energy to do than Kira blowing up time itself on a universal scale?
In Jojo we see several times characters with their stands being tired because it consumes energy which seems consistent with what I say
Yes, stamina do be a thing.
and show me that I deleted the sentence that says that the Abilities are exempt from this rule
Uhm, ok?
スタンドの射程距離とパワーは反比例する（ただしスタンドのもたらす「効果」には限りはない）
A Stand’s range and power are inversely proportional (however, there is no limit to the "effects" a Stand brings about).
スタンドの射程距離とパワーは反比例する（ただしスタンドがもたらす「効果」はこの限りではない）
A Stand’s range and power are inversely proportional (however, the "effects" a Stand brings about are not bound by this rule).
Like why act like you didn't? If I called you out on it, I'm obviously gonna have the lines removed on hand
it means absolutely nothing And you say things that never happened but you do fight situations and if the Kakyoin stand is more powerful or find you the translation in what I said? So the assumptions are in the trash
It means your entire argument falls flat because abilities don't follow the range/power thing half the time. Which is what Stand energy uses in basically every case, and given you just tried to use the range rule as evidence to that very thing, that's a huge flaw in your argument.
(And also applies to Spin FYI, that's an ability, not the Stand's physical form).
Lad, there isn't a single thing I've said that I can't straight up prove, this shit isn't exactly subtle or hidden, I'm moreso wondering why you think you can pull a fast one tbh.
Also lil odd you just ignored the previous points and contradictions entirely and skipped over those but it is what it is ig.
