Final Fantasy 16 discussion thread

[XXBenShapiroXx]

Even if DB gives it to Dante, they went with it being tied to his stamina so It's limited.

For person that might be doing Clive's profile. Would you be giving him most of Ultima's abilities as it seems like he fully absorbs Ultima at the end?

In the context of DB, if that is the case, and DB goes with it. Then Clive would likely take abilities, versatility and hax as Ultima has a shit ton of moves.

I'm seeing a ton of shit Dante has that I'd be surprised if Clive has answers to

Like Dante's precog, instinctive action, royal guard, and cosmic awareness alone should make him more or less untouchable if hes given the speed advantage

Not to mention fear hax and RE resistance negation shit

I wouldn't be surprised if Clive had a bigger bag but atm Dante's seems deeper

 

[RedReaper616]

Speaking of, I saw a lot of mention of Ultima’s reality warping being due to Concept Manipulation? How exactly does that fare or work in comparison to the Concept Manipulation in DMC? Because all I’ve seen so far indicates it might be interpreted similar to Wally Vs Archie Sonic, where Archie Sonic has impressive cosmic control over atoms but Wally has full control over his structure and thus can just say no, (as Dante manipulated his Own Concept into Tony Redgrave as a child and back again into Dante as a Teen, and Vergil regenerated—Albeit 20 years later, and on Death’s Door—From having his Concept completely remade, having his Soul ripped out and put into a suit, and having his Mind and Memory erased and replaced (alongside being completely and spiritually erased by Dante)…back into HIMSELF {Concept} in his OWN BODY and SOUL.)

 

[Tony_di_bugalu]

Albeit 20 years later,

It was like 12 years later

 

[RedReaper616]

It was like 12 years later

Really? In DMC1 Dante’s like, 28, right?

(“Twenty years ago your family was killed by Evil.”)

DMC5 is when he’s in his 40’s and 5 years after 4 (Before the Nightmare: Nico).

And by DMC4, Nero was around as old as DMC3 Dante, (3142 Artbook? I think?) and had been conceived around a year prior to that game (Vergil’s trip to Fortuna between DMC3 Manga and DMC3).

Does that not fit around the 20 year range?

 

[XXBenShapiroXx]

Speaking of, I saw a lot of mention of Ultima’s reality warping being due to Concept Manipulation? How exactly does that fare or work in comparison to the Concept Manipulation in DMC? Because all I’ve seen so far indicates it might be interpreted similar to Wally Vs Archie Sonic, where Archie Sonic has impressive cosmic control over atoms but Wally has full control over his structure and thus can just say no, (as Dante manipulated his Own Concept into Tony Redgrave as a child and back again into Dante as a Teen, and Vergil regenerated—Albeit 20 years later, and on Death’s Door—From having his Concept completely remade, having his Soul ripped out and put into a suit, and having his Mind and Memory erased and replaced (alongside being completely and spiritually erased by Dante)…back into HIMSELF {Concept} in his OWN BODY and SOUL.)

I've been bringing this up in the DB subreddit and haven't gotten a straight answer

The Nero Savior shit alone is something I haven't gotten a response to

 

[Tony_di_bugalu]

Even if DB gives it to Dante, they went with it being tied to his stamina so It's limited.

The funny part is that in Deadly Fortune he actually gets more power than he loses when Agnus absorbs it.

If they use that argument and the novels then Dante basically has infinite stamina while using DT

Really? In DMC1 Dante’s like, 28, right?

(“Twenty years ago your family was killed by Evil.”)

DMC5 is when he’s in his 40’s and 5 years after 4 (Before the Nightmare: Nico).

And by DMC4, Nero was around as old as DMC3 Dante, (3142 Artbook? I think?) and had been conceived around a year prior to that game (Vergil’s trip to Fortuna between DMC3 Manga and DMC3).

Does that not fit around the 20 year range?

Nero is actually 16/17 in DMC4 as hinted by deadly fortune

Dante is 28 in DMC1

Anime, Volume 2 and DMC2 happens all in the same year and approximately a couple of years after DMC1 so 30 or 31

DMC5 happens 10 years after the anime

that's like 12 years :v

 

[AlphaOmegaV1]

Speaking of, I saw a lot of mention of Ultima’s reality warping being due to Concept Manipulation? How exactly does that fare or work in comparison to the Concept Manipulation in DMC? Because all I’ve seen so far indicates it might be interpreted similar to Wally Vs Archie Sonic, where Archie Sonic has impressive cosmic control over atoms but Wally has full control over his structure and thus can just say no, (as Dante manipulated his Own Concept into Tony Redgrave as a child and back again into Dante as a Teen, and Vergil regenerated—Albeit 20 years later, and on Death’s Door—From having his Concept completely remade, having his Soul ripped out and put into a suit, and having his Mind and Memory erased and replaced (alongside being completely and spiritually erased by Dante)…back into HIMSELF {Concept} in his OWN BODY and SOUL.)

Just wait. There's still alot that needs to be done with more stuff for the game on the way like an offical FF16 lore book that's dropping sometime in the future, and Clive's been teased for the new Dissidia game that was announced so he'll probably get Dissidia scaling which will open up a different can of worms.

 

[AthelChan]

dont let this slide ff people.

 

[XXBenShapiroXx]

The funny part is that in Deadly Fortune he actually gets more power than he loses when Agnus absorbs it.

If they use that argument and the novels then Dante basically has infinite stamina while using DT


Nero is actually 16/17 in DMC4 as hinted by deadly fortune

Dante is 28 in DMC1

Anime, Volume 2 and DMC2 happens all in the same year and approximately a couple of years after DMC1 so 30 or 31

DMC5 happens 10 years after the anime

that's like 12 years :v

What do you mean infinite stamina?

 

[The_Axiom_of_Virgo]

dont let this slide ff people.

FF16 is essentially the new FF13 in terms of polarising the FF fanbase but the issue is FF13 eventually connects to the greater FF lore, still has the baseline FF conventions (e.g party members, jobs/roles, buffing/debuffing, etc) and still sold several millions of copies. FF16 is pretty disconnected, lacks so many of the typical FF conventions that it's almost seen as the new black sheep of FF (FF2 was the og black sheep) and for it's massive budget over 3 million copies sold is just "ok" (PS5 exclusivity for awhile didnt help it too).

As a result, there isn't much of an appetite to work on, debate or powerscale FF16 in the Vs community also (as mentioned multiple times already) there's a new comprehensive lorebook coming out new year, Clive's likely inclusion in the new Dissidia game (gacha slop: fashion isekai edition) and much of the existing lore hasn't even been translated. So playing the waiting game I guess?

I'd be surprised if they took that into account for the match and gave him all of Ultimas stuff. But eh who knows, sometimes DB gets really whacky and do things they shouldn't lol.

Oh trust me Clive shouldn't really have all or most of Ultima's BS but considering DBs standards it's highly likely he'll get them that's why I mentioned it on the DMC discussion thread. Ofc it's only fair Dante gets similar leeway but we'll see this weekend.

 

[Follow_Doctor_Freeman]

Pretty crummy of that Superguy guy to throw shade at the FF fellows here. I'm barely around but in the last two weeks alone even I've seen about half a dozen clarifications from supporters saying that they're waiting on the lorebooks and such. Anyone who feels confident enough to make a general statement like that should have noticed that. Granted, FF16's been out for a while, but there are the Clive & Ultima pages/sandboxes floating around, and FF games are so dense with text and events that it makes sense that people would be slow to make comprehensive assessments. Especially considering how drawn-out CRT proceedings are these days; people tend to want to get it perfect the first time instead of piecemeal if they can help it.

 

[Dust_Collector]

Me personally I really liked the game and have been working on profiles for Dion and Ultima, but I just take ages to finish my profiles in general (To give another example I started working on Tears of the Kingdom Ganondorfs profile the day the game came out in may, didn't finish and publish it until the end of that same year and he doesn't have as much to work with as someone like Ultima does)

 

[BlackDarkness679]

 

[RedReaper616]

Granted, FF16's been out for a while, but there are the Clive & Ultima pages/sandboxes floating around, and FF games are so dense with text and events that it makes sense that people would be slow to make comprehensive assessments.

Ooo. Can I see them? Genuinely want to know what to expect to see in this DB.

 

[Dust_Collector]

Ooo. Can I see them? Genuinely want to know what to expect to see in this DB.

Dust Collector/Sandbox9

vsbattles.fandom.com

Here's the Ultima one

 

[RedReaper616]

Dust Collector/Sandbox9

vsbattles.fandom.com

Here's the Ultima one

Huh. I thought Ultima would be faster. That actually might mean that even though Dante and Clive share a lot of traits, Dante has superior speed and can just catch him while he’s lacking.

 

[Dust_Collector]

Huh. I thought Ultima would be faster. That actually might mean that even though Dante and Clive share a lot of traits, Dante has superior speed and can just catch him while he’s lacking.

They'll likely scale his reality warping speed to his general combat speed (Like we do with Mundus and Dante) in the Death Battle given they believe the fight is really close. Well either that or they won't scale Mundus' reality warping to his combat speed I dunno.

 

[XXBenShapiroXx]

The one thing I'm mostly sure of is that their stats will be close. I'm pretty sure this fight comes down to arsenal and abilties.

 

[RedReaper616]

They'll likely scale his reality warping speed to his general combat speed (Like we do with Mundus and Dante) in the Death Battle given they believe the fight is really close. Well either that or they won't scale Mundus' reality warping to his combat speed I dunno.

That would make sense.

Question, does Clive resist Anti-Magic?

 

[RedReaper616]

Uhhhh?

 

[Dalesean027]

This is officially everything we have as of now for profiles

Characters and Abilities:
Magik and Dominants:
https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User:Dust_Collector/Sandbox6
Dion/Bahamut

Dust Collector/Sandbox8

vsbattles.fandom.com

Ultima

Dust Collector/Sandbox9

vsbattles.fandom.com

Barnabas

Barnabas Tharmr

vsbattles.fandom.com

Calculations:

Benedikta Tornado Energy

vsbattles.fandom.com

Eikon Height's Final fantasy 16

vsbattles.fandom.com

Final Fantasy 16 calc compilation 1 (Eikonic feats vol 1)

vsbattles.fandom.com

Final Fantasy 16 calc compilation 2

vsbattles.fandom.com

Final Fantasy 16 calc compilation 3

vsbattles.fandom.com

Ifrit evaporates Leviathan's Tsumani (FF16)

vsbattles.fandom.com

Phoenix Saves Ifrit from Bahamut's Light (FFXVI)

vsbattles.fandom.com

Final Fantasy XVI Ultima's Storm Recalc

vsbattles.fandom.com

This is everything at the moment

 

[XXBenShapiroXx]

Yeah Dante can handle all that

 

[XXBenShapiroXx]

This is everything at the moment

What's Clive's stamina looking like?

 

[Dalesean027]

What's Clive's stamina looking like?

Superhuman

 

[XXBenShapiroXx]

Superhuman

I meant in comparison to Dante's, sorry.

 

[Dalesean027]

I meant in comparison to Dante's, sorry.

Dante's is rated as Superhuman too but he obviously has more endurance and gets more punishment generally

 

[XXBenShapiroXx]

Dante's is rated as Superhuman too but he obviously has more endurance and gets more punishment generally

Yeah the reason I'm asking is that everyone thinks stamina will be the deciding factor

 

[BlackDarkness679]

Dante's is rated as Superhuman too but he obviously has more endurance and gets more punishment generally

So Clive has no stamina feats comparable to Dante like the one in DMC5 ending with Vergil

 

[Netoriman]

What is your thoughts on the G1 blog guys?
In particular his AP

 

[BlackDarkness679]

Death Battle Predictions: Dante VS Clive

(TWILTY) (Flip) (Kaiser) (Hilda) (Rina Antiqua) (GrimCammy) (Soma) “You gotta be you. Only one in the world.” -Hideki Kamiya Dante, Devil May Cry’s stylish devil hunter. Clive Rosfield, the First S…

g1-team.com

 

[Dalesean027]

Death Battle Predictions: Dante VS Clive

(TWILTY) (Flip) (Kaiser) (Hilda) (Rina Antiqua) (GrimCammy) (Soma) “You gotta be you. Only one in the world.” -Hideki Kamiya Dante, Devil May Cry’s stylish devil hunter. Clive Rosfield, the First S…

g1-team.com

I honestly didn't even consider them using the other dimensions outside of just the normal one and ultima's could potentially be a cook because if the parallel world stuff is legit then its lowkey not a bad 4~5 universe argument for Clive.

I called they would use the compression and ultima reality warping as speed feats too before in the death battle chat when this was announced

 

[Hypertornado099]

Which eikonic ability is this? I played FF16 months ago and I don't remember a Shiva ability that gave you invincibility

 

[Smiles98]

Which eikonic ability is this? I played FF16 months ago and I don't remember a Shiva ability that gave you invincibility

That’s Diamond Dust

 

[Dalesean027]

Spoiler

THEY GAVE OUR BOY THE WIN!!!

 

[Dust_Collector]

maybe it's not the most accurate outcome in the world, BUT THE AGENDA DON'T CARE LET'S GOOOOO.

Fight itself was pretty good, the final blow and death was lame tho.

 

[Kaiser0079]

It's accurate imo
Dante is just massively wanked here and in other places for reasons
Clive reasonably counters everything and wins the war of attrition
Also
Omega should count for speed for the same reason Mundus does if you wanna do that

 

[RedReaper616]

It's accurate imo
Dante is just massively wanked here and in other places for reasons

Low Multi and MFTL seems fairly reasonable?

Clive reasonably counters everything and wins the war of attrition

I’d argue Dante’s 24 Long fight with Urizen proves otherwise, alongside the fact Dante constantly is being recharged by doing virtually anything canonically, on top of DT refilling his Energy whenever he transforms into it, plus items. Additionally, Dante counters everything Clive can do.

Also
Omega should count for speed for the same reason Mundus does if you wanna do that

They were. In Black Boxes. They just came out identical or minor advantage Dante, which they felt wouldn’t be enough to decide the fight thanks to both being capable of making themselves temporarily faster.

 

[XSOULOFCINDERX]

Still bizarre that they didn't mention the Gold Orbs and all that stuff for Dante.

 

[Kaiser0079]

Low Multi and MFTL seems fairly reasonable?

Yeah, and it works for Clive the same way, so he wouldn't get the stat advantage on top of Clive having adaptation that let's him eventually AP stomp

I’d argue Dante’s 24 Long fight with Urizen proves otherwise, alongside the fact Dante constantly is being recharged by doing virtually anything canonically, on top of DT refilling his Energy whenever he transforms into it, plus items. Additionally, Dante counters everything Clive can do.

You'd be wrong on the first part because in context Urizen was literally toying with him (confirmed by the visions of V manga), Dante got one shot the second Urizen got serious, knocked out of DT and put in a coma for a month. Dante's stamina problem is also reinforced in DMC3 where Arkham directly states that Vergil got weaker because of his injuries and fatigue, and in the DMC2 novel where Dante states he can get tired. Items cancel out of with Clive and can't stop his adaptation. Dante can't really counter everything as much as he has an equivalent. His resistance to time manipulation in this wiki is also exaggerated because he's consistently affected by it in DMC5 and Vergil has a different physiology because of the Qliphoth fruit. Dante's longest fight with an opponent that was actually trying was his fight with Urizen after the fruit, which lasted about an hour. Clive can fight from daytime until the middle of the night as per the last Ultima dungeon.

Still bizarre that they didn't mention the Gold Orbs and all that stuff for Dante.

He has 3 of them in DMC5 outside of clear gameplay mechanics (yeah Dante cam clearly hold 9999 of them because you're not playing om harder difficulties) and yellow orbs simply don't exist anymore. Clive's adaptation makes them negligible. Regardless, in the japanese version of DMC1, they merely rewind time to a checkpoint, so they'd be replenishing Clive back to square one too.

Dante isn't all that, Clive winning is perfectly reasonable of you do actual research on DMC and don't just buy every highball this wiki proposes.

 

[Kaiser0079]

By the way, the Ultimania has a 51x multiplier in damage for Ifrit's transformation, if you wanna play the game of using guidebooks for DT multipliers.
DMC2's quick heart is also not a 10x speed amp, that's an unofficial English guide exclusive thing, the japanese guide clarifies 1.2x.