Kai Chisaki (Overhaul) VS Ken Kaneki (My Hero Academia Vs Tokyo Ghoul) [12-3.5-0]

[CastoriceTheFifth]

In unrelated news, Im running out of Unravel remixes to use for kaneki matches

This one is next

 

[Kazuma_kuwabara]

I still cant beat this mf

I literally gave up with this, whale mode

 

[NikHelton]

Sorry, I'm bowing out of this. I barely know Tokyo Ghoul, and I zoned out of MHA after reading that ending.

Besides the fact that several people are talking about stomping, we already have a match between this version of Chisaki and a stronger version of Kaneki. It was a very close vote, with both taking turns seizing the initiative.

What's the point of putting him against a weaker version of Kaneki, who has weaker skills, no deconstruction resistance, and fewer wincons, while Chisaki retains all his advantages? I might as well put the weakest version of Chisaki against a stronger version of Kaneki just to farm matches.

If this version of the character gives an equal fight to the stronger version, then why put her against the weaker one?

 

[NikHelton]

A good example of this is how Sukuna had 2 losses against Makima and 2 losses against Muzan. Different keys were used

I sincerely don't understand why you're putting Sukuna 16 Fingers against Makima when she defeated his strongest version. It looks like farming.

I wouldn't mind if you made a first-key matchup between Chisaki and Kaneki, as long as you balance the fight with prior knowledge, for example.
However, given that we had a very close fight, where Kaneki won thanks to his superior blitz amp, skills, and likely resistance, making a match against his version without these wincons is simply unfair.

My argument was based on the fact that Part 1 Kaneki would be able to escape deconstruction by using kagune decomposition and didn't know that spikes were so fast.

 

[Ebihara]

I am just not seeing a stomp. People may not agree on how the match plays out you dont have to take the other sides agurements as gospel, alot of things in a versus match are kinda left up to interpretation. There is valid win cons for each side just one is more likely to win then the other... I dont think this should be removed.

 

[Arsuzz]

I am just not seeing a stomp. People may not agree on how the match plays out you dont have to take the other sides agurements as gospel, alot of things in a versus match are kinda left up to interpretation. There is valid win cons for each side just one is more likely to win then the other... I dont think this should be removed.

In fact, it really does feel like a stomp. The theoretical ability to use your abilities to win doesn't mean the match isn't a stomp. At even speeds, Mike Tyson has theoretical win-wins against Kira Yoshikage. For example, his skills are superior, and his punching power is enough to knock Kira out. However, it doesn't stop being a stomp because Killer Quinn touches Mike Tyson and blows him up, leaving him unable to fight back.
I read all the arguments and participated in the rematch. There, Kaneki won due to his multi-layered skills and anticipation, his greater experience, his initial ability to land a one-shot with his kagune even with a simple punch, and his resistance to Overhaul. Even considering that resistance wasn't considered by everyone, Kaneki already had significant win-wins.
He has no advantage in this fight.
Regeneration? Chisaki has it too.
AP? A 100-ton advantage means nothing when Kaneki is 894 tons and Chisaki is 711 tons. Kaneki needs to land a killing blow to the head or cut off Chisaki's arms. While Kaneki is busy with one pair of arms, Chisaki will touch him with the other pair. Chisaki also has Low 7-B AP, which will destroy Kaneki's kagune even if he becomes powerful enough for a one-shot.
Chisaki has at least two ways to one-shot Kaneki + bullets that will drain his strength, but I haven't seen anyone consider this an argument. Kaneki only has the theoretical possibility of AD if Chisaki is an idiot and prefers to spam spikes against a regenerating opponent rather than finish them off with a single blow.
AD is irrelevant when you're vaporized in a second.
I also agree with NikHelton that having two matches of one key versus two keys is pointless. If Kaneki's stronger key wins due to arguments A, B, and C, and the first key has no such arguments, then using the first key looks like a losing option.

 

[Ebihara]

the theoretical ability to use your abilities to win doesn't mean the match isn't a stomp

yes it does lol

some of yall need to read this https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Stomp_Thread
"examples of non stomps"

• Both characters have several methods of winning. However, one character can reliably use/activate their winning move(s) first.

as long as the other charcter has a valid wincon no matter how unless its 0% chance litteraly impossible then its not a stomp. this isnt a stomp. so many of you dont know what makes a stomp thread. just cause it very very descive doesnt make it a stomp.

NOTHING you said makes this a stomp. there was a large amount of back and forth and debate and a valid wincon was presented for both sides. this just feels like salt at this point to me.

 

[Ebihara]

also these are our rules for rematches

Remaking an existing match listed on a profile should generally be avoided, but a "rematch" may be acceptable under certain conditions:

• Character information fundamental to the debate has changed due to a CRT.
• An important piece of information or context was missed entirely or excluded from the debate.
• A core argument of the previous debate is deemed invalid for some reason.
• A new argument which is fundamentally different from anything previously stated is brought up.
• There is a possibility for new conditions for the fight which are significantly different and could make for a valid new conclusion.

In some cases, even without a core or fundamental change, multiple modest but relevant changes can stack up to justify the match being made again.

If a rematch is made because the previous match is deemed invalid for a logical reason, then the result of the rematch should replace the previous match on the profile. However, if both matches are valid but different (such as different conditions or keys), then they may both be listed with the differences specified.

so yes both matchups can be valid and added to the profiles.

 

[Arsuzz]

yes it does lol

some of yall need to read this https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Stomp_Thread
"examples of non stomps"

• Both characters have several methods of winning. However, one character can reliably use/activate their winning move(s) first.

"Several methods". Name me some methods that actually work for Kaneki? They need to be accessed for them to work.

as long as the other charcter has a valid wincon no matter how unless its 0% chance litteraly impossible then its not a stomp. this isnt a stomp. so many of you dont know what makes a stomp thread. just cause it very very descive doesnt make it a stomp.

The thing is, this version of Chisaki's abilities give this version of Kaneki no chance. Any attempted attack turns into decon. Wounds will be regenerated.

 

[Arsuzz]

also these are our rules for rematches

Remaking an existing match listed on a profile should generally be avoided, but a "rematch" may be acceptable under certain conditions:

• Character information fundamental to the debate has changed due to a CRT.
• An important piece of information or context was missed entirely or excluded from the debate.
• A core argument of the previous debate is deemed invalid for some reason.
• A new argument which is fundamentally different from anything previously stated is brought up.
• There is a possibility for new conditions for the fight which are significantly different and could make for a valid new conclusion.

In some cases, even without a core or fundamental change, multiple modest but relevant changes can stack up to justify the match being made again.

If a rematch is made because the previous match is deemed invalid for a logical reason, then the result of the rematch should replace the previous match on the profile. However, if both matches are valid but different (such as different conditions or keys), then they may both be listed with the differences specified.

so yes both matchups can be valid and added to the profiles.

Previous match is invalid because it was a stomp. Everything is as you wrote.

 

[Ebihara]

They need to be accessed for them to work.

again not true. he is capable of killing him its just that the other charcter's wincon is insanely more likely to go off and win the battle. I am done arugring this I understand you are new and you may not be very familar with the sites standards . this isnt a stomp, i understand you are new but just cause its a very descive battle doesnt make it a stomp and there has been pages aruging why not. if we want to run the other matchup go for it but it just wouldnt replace this matchup.

Previous match is invalid because it was a stomp. Everything is as you wrote.

its not a stomp. you are wrongly assuming its a stomp lol.

 

[CastoriceTheFifth]

Previous match is invalid because it was a stomp. Everything is as you wrote.

I see the new meta. I think the new meta on removing matches is to ignore every reason why its not a stomp, pretend to ignore how so many arguments defending kaneki were hidden in favor of painting him as helpless in order to remove the match, never elaborate why these arguments were never brought up at all, and stomp training a thread.

Unfortunately for the last one/meta, i know a match where it got called a stomp by 20+ people and it never got removed

 

[Arsuzz]

again not true. he is capable of killing him its just that the other charcter's wincon is insanely more likely to go off and win the battle. I understand you are new and you may not be very familar with the sites standards . this isnt a stomp, i understand you are new but just cause its a very descive battle doesnt make it a stomp and there has been pages aruging why not. if we want to run the other matchup go for it but it just wouldnt replace this matchup.

I'm basing this on the rules I've read and the content moderator's words. If Kaneki doesn't resist deconstruction in this vein, his attacks won't kill Chisaki. King's argument suggests Chisaki's skills are superior, and Chisaki's AP is strong enough to destroy Kaneki, especially when combined with Overhaul.

I am done arugring

Fine, good night

its not a stomp. you are wrongly assuming its a stomp lol.

I'm not the only one who thinks so. I think it's normal for people to have different opinions. We'd better wait for the moderator's verdict.

 

[Arsuzz]

I see the new meta. I think the new meta on removing matches is to ignore every reason why its not a stomp, pretend to ignore how so many arguments defending kaneki were hidden in favor of painting him as helpless in order to remove the match, never elaborate why these arguments were never brought up at all, and stomp training a thread.

Unfortunately for the last one/meta, i know a match where it got called a stomp by 20+ people and it never got removed

I don't understand you, but I hope you're okay.

 

[CastoriceTheFifth]

I'm basing this on the rules I've read and the content moderator's words. If Kaneki doesn't resist deconstruction in this vein, his attacks won't kill Chisaki. King's argument suggests Chisaki's skills are superior, and Chisaki's AP is strong enough to destroy Kaneki, especially when combined with Overhaul.

Ah yes somehow not being able to resist an ability is automatic stomp. If i make Deku Vs Shigaraki right now, is it a stomp because he doesnt resist decay.

King’s arguments are not gonna help if you this many arguments that helps supports Kaneki were hidden in order to paint him as helpless to remove a match. So what, is he not able to dodge the spikes out of instinct anymore? Does he just not have mid regen angmore to exploit the RE AD against spikes?

Chisaki only has superior AP with spikes. His physicals are stronger than Overhaul. He can literally crush Chisaki with his Class G LS

I'm not the only one who thinks so. I think it's normal for people to have different opinions. We'd better wait for the moderator's verdict.

Like i said before. It does not matter if other people think so too if theyre unable to explain why so many arguments were hidden or debunked the hidden arguments that supports kaneki.

And again, 20+ people once called a match a stomp and it was never removed

 

[Arsuzz]

Ah yes somehow not being able to resist an ability is automatic stomp. If i make Deku Vs Shigaraki right now, is it a stomp because he doesnt resist decay.

King’s arguments are not gonna help if you this many arguments that helps supports Kaneki were hidden in order to paint him as helpless to remove a match. So what, is he not able to dodge the spikes out of instinct anymore? Does he just not have mid regen angmore to exploit the RE AD against spikes?

This is just a delay of the inevitable, and let's please avoid making false accusations against each other, okay? This shift to "gotcha" and personalities seems like a strange attempt to make everything I wrote seem less sincere.

I never said Kaneki won this match thanks to instincts and AD. Just because I voted for Tokyo Ghoul in another match doesn't mean I automatically vote for him everywhere.

Chisaki only has superior AP with spikes. His physicals are stronger than Overhaul. He can literally crush Chisaki with his Class G LS

There's just no use for it in this match.

Like i said before. It does not matter if other people think so too if theyre unable to explain why so many arguments were hidden or debunked the hidden arguments that supports kaneki.

And again, 20+ people once called a match a stomp and it was never removed

I've expressed my opinion, just like everyone else. Let's all wait for the moderator's response, and not turn a finished match into a meme-sharing arena, making it harder for the moderators to analyze the situation. RandomHelper is literally tired of this flood of messages because he responded to you and Nick at the same time.
We've all expressed our opinions. The verdict is up to the administrator.
Good night.

 

[Kavopaco]

I very much agree with ebihara, imo this isnt a stomp but as said above, other staff input would be appreciated

 

[CastoriceTheFifth]

This is just a delay of the inevitable, and let's please avoid making false accusations against each other, okay? This shift to "gotcha" and personalities seems like a strange attempt to make everything I wrote seem less sincere.

Delaying the inevitable for what. The inevitable result of it not being removed? Why would i want that?

Its not really a gotcha attempt if youve been in so many matchups and stomp debate arguments to notice patterns.

Also this itself isnt what would make what you said less sincere. Its pretending like 80% of Kanekis abilities and arguments dont exist and pretending like there wasnt an attempt to hide those arguments.

I never said Kaneki won this match thanks to instincts and AD. Just because I voted for Tokyo Ghoul in another match doesn't mean I automatically vote for him everywhere.

Never made this argument at all. Yes you never said Kaneki won via instincts and AD. Why is that. Maybe because most of his kit and arguments were never stated or sent after King made his argument in order to paint Kaneki as helpless to call stomp

Even more sus that no one corrected @Random-Helper323 honest mistake when they thought Overhaul was Low 7-B physically instead of being 100 tons weaker than Kaneki initially.

There's just no use for it in this match..

Yes there is. I said this like 4 times. LS isnt being used as a binding method. Its being used as a way to crush his heads or arms when he has the initial starting ap advantage and CLASS G OVER CLASS K advantage. Im telling you ignoring arguments to paint him as helpless wont work.

I've expressed my opinion, just like everyone else. Let's all wait for the moderator's response, and not turn a finished match into a meme-sharing arena, making it harder for the moderators to analyze the situation. RandomHelper is literally tired of this flood of messages because he responded to you and Nick at the same time.
We've all expressed our opinions. The verdict is up to the administrator.
Good night.

Thats crazy because what I saw was several people constantly pinging RandomHelper saying “Delete delete! Please delete stomp!! 3 of us said stomp so surely its enough!!!”

 

[Arsuzz]

Delaying the inevitable for what. The inevitable result of it not being removed? Why would i want that?

Its not really a gotcha attempt if youve been in so many matchups and stomp debate arguments to notice patterns.

Also this itself isnt what would make what you said less sincere. Its pretending like 80% of Kanekis abilities and arguments dont exist and pretending like there wasnt an attempt to hide those arguments.


Never made this argument at all. Yes you never said Kaneki won via instincts and AD. Why is that. Maybe because most of his kit and arguments were never stated or sent after King made his argument in order to paint Kaneki as helpless to call stomp

Even more sus that no one corrected @Random-Helper323 honest mistake when they thought Overhaul was Low 7-B physically instead of being 100 tons weaker than Kaneki initially.


Yes there is. I said this like 4 times. LS isnt being used as a binding method. Its being used as a way to crush his heads or arms when he has the initial starting ap advantage and CLASS G OVER CLASS K advantage. Im telling you ignoring arguments to paint him as helpless wont work.


Thats crazy because what I saw was several people constantly pinging RandomHelper saying “Delete delete! Please delete stomp!! 3 of us said stomp so surely its enough!!!”

Dude, please calm down. Everyone else is waiting for the admin, and you're the only one spamming the thread. I think your thoughts will be heard. Let's call someone.

 

[CastoriceTheFifth]

Dude, please calm down. Everyone else is waiting for the admin, and you're the only one spamming the thread. I think your thoughts will be heard. Let's call someone.

So you guys are allowed to state your stance but Im not allowed because it goes against it. So where is this same statement several posts before? Why not say this to Ebihara?

I am not even done responding to other posts

Also you guys already called someone, a content mod appeared, and then left

 

[Arsuzz]

So you guys are allowed to state your stance but Im not allowed because it goes against it. So where is this same statement several posts before? Why not say this to Ebihara?

I am not even done responding to other posts

Also you guys already called someone, a content mod appeared, and then left

You've already done that. Ebihara and others agreed that it's worth waiting for the moderators. Let's leave this thread alone, please.

 

[DarthSorox]

Have you called the administrators yet?

 

[Arsuzz]

Have you called the administrators yet?

I wrote to one, but it's hard to find staff members on this site without knowing their names. I'll try to look for more.

 

[CastoriceTheFifth]

"Several methods". Name me some methods that actually work for Kaneki? They need to be accessed for them to work.

Constantly ignoring said methods doesnt help make it a stomp

The thing is, this version of Chisaki's abilities give this version of Kaneki no chance. Any attempted attack turns into decon. Wounds will be regenerated.

Thanks to the numerous arguments about how Kaneki will instantly notice the decon effects from Overhaul hands, he’ll know how to strategically avoid his hands and come up with an excellent plan to stop him from using the quirk by either lopping his head off or his hands

Wounds would be regenerated yes. Thankfully he cant if his head or hands are lopped off. Thankfully Kaneki has a vastly superior regeneration as well to survive.

In fact, it really does feel like a stomp. The theoretical ability to use your abilities to win doesn't mean the match isn't a stomp. At even speeds, Mike Tyson has theoretical win-wins against Kira Yoshikage. For example, his skills are superior, and his punching power is enough to knock Kira out. However, it doesn't stop being a stomp because Killer Quinn touches Mike Tyson and blows him up, leaving him unable to fight back.
I read all the arguments and participated in the rematch. There, Kaneki won due to his multi-layered skills and anticipation, his greater experience, his initial ability to land a one-shot with his kagune even with a simple punch, and his resistance to Overhaul. Even considering that resistance wasn't considered by everyone, Kaneki already had significant win-wins.
He has no advantage in this fight.
Regeneration? Chisaki has it too.
AP? A 100-ton advantage means nothing when Kaneki is 894 tons and Chisaki is 711 tons. Kaneki needs to land a killing blow to the head or cut off Chisaki's arms. While Kaneki is busy with one pair of arms, Chisaki will touch him with the other pair. Chisaki also has Low 7-B AP, which will destroy Kaneki's kagune even if he becomes powerful enough for a one-shot.
Chisaki has at least two ways to one-shot Kaneki + bullets that will drain his strength, but I haven't seen anyone consider this an argument. Kaneki only has the theoretical possibility of AD if Chisaki is an idiot and prefers to spam spikes against a regenerating opponent rather than finish them off with a single blow.
AD is irrelevant when you're vaporized in a second.
I also agree with NikHelton that having two matches of one key versus two keys is pointless. If Kaneki's stronger key wins due to arguments A, B, and C, and the first key has no such arguments, then using the first key looks like a losing option.

Theoretical use of your abilities? Remove half of Kaneki’s kit from his profile in a CRT then.

100 ton advantage does mean something when the other guy literally has AD + Class G LS to crush his arms or head. He has the skills and capabilities to pull this off. Stop painting him as helpless to remove a loss. Its disrespectful for Kaneki as well.

“While Kaneki is busy with one pair of arms, Chisaki will touch him with the other”

So what. How many Kagune tentacles does Kaneki have? Does he suddenly only have 1 now? Brother he has 4. Should we remove his kagune from his profile next since we’re gonna pretend it doesnt exist.

Kaneki destroys the spikes like canon fighters did. Now what? Kaneki maneuvers the trajectory of his kagune around the spikes. Now what?

“Chisaki is an idiot”
Brother he in canon mainly range spams his spikes. Most of his kills are from his spikes, not even from decon itself. And unlike the canon characters who were stuck underground fighting him, This takes place in the 20th ward

RE AD is relevant when you literally have the vastly superior regeneration, stamina, numerous different skills and abilities to avoid the spikes, and even resistance to analytical prediction.

Also you did a new meta yet again. Glazing the rematch while trying to silence the old match. Ill say this again, using a completely different Kaneki does not remove a match from an entirely different Kaneki being used. This is like making DBZ Goku vs Saitama, my goat Goku loses, then I proceed to use MUI Goku in the latest arc to destroy saitama in a rematch, then attempt to silence the old match and delete it. Like wtf.

 

[CastoriceTheFifth]

if the supporters are fine with it then can i go make the crt right now to delete half of Kaneki’s abilities? Seems like we want to pretend they dont exist anymore

 

[NikHelton]

Constantly ignoring said methods doesnt help make it a stomp


Thanks to the numerous arguments about how Kaneki will instantly notice the decon effects from Overhaul hands, he’ll know how to strategically avoid his hands and come up with an excellent plan to stop him from using the quirk by either lopping his head off or his hands

Wounds would be regenerated yes. Thankfully he cant if his head or hands are lopped off. Thankfully Kaneki has a vastly superior regeneration as well to survive.


Theoretical use of your abilities? Remove half of Kaneki’s kit from his profile in a CRT then.

100 ton advantage does mean something when the other guy literally has AD + Class G LS to crush his arms or head. He has the skills and capabilities to pull this off. Stop painting him as helpless to remove a loss. Its disrespectful for Kaneki as well.

“While Kaneki is busy with one pair of arms, Chisaki will touch him with the other”

So what. How many Kagune tentacles does Kaneki have? Does he suddenly only have 1 now? Brother he has 4. Should we remove his kagune from his profile next since we’re gonna pretend it doesnt exist.

Kaneki destroys the spikes like canon fighters did. Now what? Kaneki maneuvers the trajectory of his kagune around the spikes. Now what?

“Chisaki is an idiot”
Brother he in canon mainly range spams his spikes. Most of his kills are from his spikes, not even from decon itself. And unlike the canon characters who were stuck underground fighting him, This takes place in the 20th ward

RE AD is relevant when you literally have the vastly superior regeneration, stamina, numerous different skills and abilities to avoid the spikes, and even resistance to analytical prediction.

Also you did a new meta yet again. Glazing the rematch while trying to silence the old match. Ill say this again, using a completely different Kaneki does not remove a match from an entirely different Kaneki being used. This is like making DBZ Goku vs Saitama, my goat Goku loses, then I proceed to use MUI Goku in the latest arc to destroy saitama in a rematch, then attempt to silence the old match and delete it. Like wtf.

Just rematch the basic Chisaki and Part 1 Kaneki, giving him some prior knowledge. This particular match feels like a shambles. It could have been at least somewhat fair if they'd given Kaneki some information about his opponent.

 

[CastoriceTheFifth]

Just rematch the basic Chisaki and Part 1 Kaneki, giving him some prior knowledge. This particular match feels like a shambles. It could have been at least somewhat fair if they'd given Kaneki some information about his opponent.

Rematching the Nemoto Chisaki and Part 1 Kaneki with prior knowledge doesnt remove this match either as it has a new condition in the fight.

For example, a third Makima Vs Sukuna match despite the same 2 keys being used were going to be added on a profile if it successfully completed because Makima had prior knowledge of Sukuna's status as the strongest sorcerer in history from the Heian Era. Meaning Makima wouldnt instantly control Sukuna with Conquest (which in turn gave Sukuna numerous votes for him to win).

 

[CastoriceTheFifth]

Another example would be like how gojo has 2 fights against Sukuna both listed. Its because conditions were different.

 

[NikHelton]

Rematching the Nemoto Chisaki and Part 1 Kaneki with prior knowledge doesnt remove this match either as it has a new condition in the fight.

For example, a third Makima Vs Sukuna match despite the same 2 keys being used were going to be added on a profile if it successfully completed because Makima had prior knowledge of Sukuna's status as the strongest sorcerer in history from the Heian Era. Meaning Makima wouldnt instantly control Sukuna with Conquest (which in turn gave Sukuna numerous votes for him to win).

These are slightly different situations. In Makima's case, prior knowledge deprives her of her main ability. In Kaneki's case, he simply behaves differently, is more focused, and uses better prediction

 

[CastoriceTheFifth]

These are slightly different situations. In Makima's case, prior knowledge deprives her of her main ability. In Kaneki's case, he simply behaves differently, is more focused, and uses better prediction

Makima case doesnt deprive her of her main ability. She can still use it. She just doesnt do it frame 1. Depriving people from their abilities are against matchup rules unless its a possibly rating or a new tier

 

[Robo432343]

are you guys still debating if its a stomp

 

[CastoriceTheFifth]

are you guys still debating if its a stomp

Just saying I’m making a crt to remove half of Kaneki’s abilities if a certain someone keeps pretending half of his kit doesn’t exist and calling them theoretical

Like bro does half of Kaneki’s kagune don’t exist. Does he only have 2 tentacles instead of 4 now? Is he just tails from sonic now?

 

[Arkenis]

Why is the voting 12-3.5?

And how is this a stomp? Kaneki sees Overhaul tryna grab him, he's not gonna go shake his hand, he's gonna assume there's something off about that and try attacking. Once Overhaul misses initially and sees Kaneki bust out tentacle hentai, the match becomes a game of them dodging and trying to score hits on one another. What am I missing cuz I feel like this is a fair match fair involving Kaneki.

 

[CastoriceTheFifth]

Why is the voting 12-3.5?

And how is this a stomp? Kaneki sees Overhaul tryna grab him, he's not gonna go shake his hand, he's gonna assume there's something off about that and try attacking. Once Overhaul misses initially and sees Kaneki bust out tentacle hentai, the match becomes a game of them dodging and trying to score hits on one another. What am I missing cuz I feel like this is a fair match fair involving Kaneki.

Funny thing is, him being capable of seeing something’s off about his decon and will avoid it was an argument in both this match and the other match. No one disagreed with this btw. The only thing he wouldn’t be able to know is the quirk erasing bullet. Something that is basically useless because Kaneki dodges apparently.

 

[Anonymous_Learner]

this seems fair in my eyes