Top 15 Strongest Characters for Every Tier

[sukuna171]

1) Can you link it?
2) Afaik all statistics relevant to a VS match up should be accessible from profile or at least from the verse page

Thought you meant being unaffected, sorry. But still, interaction, while allows them to interact with her, still doesn't allow to bypass the defenses

Her attack redirection is through reality warping, so yeah

She has really good Instinctive action that allows her to pick the best decision in any situation. The range should be in hundreds of meters and Dimensional travel is Interdimensional. Tensura ranges hadn't received an update for quite some time

Well that's probably possible, although I did remember that all abilities are stored in a CM1&IM2 core and to get any specs from it you have to override its defenses

Shouldn't this be restricted then as that can basically be viewed as an amp that allows her to go beyond her statistics and is therefore invalid for a in-tier fight?

Will do so then. Honestly Tensura profiles are also missing a lot of things, so I know the situation.
Well, the very last part is still there anyways

Hax Layer Evaluation Thread

The purpose of this thread is to evaluate which verses do and do not qualify for layered hax under the newly codified standards, much like Glass did for type 5 acausality not too long ago. Given the massive amount of ground that needs to be covered, this will be a somewhat disorganized thread...

vsbattles.com

 

[AlexSamDen]

She gets passively hit with 20 layers of mind, soul and body crush + power null (though the latter isn't relevant given the nature of skills)

Someone, actually link me the CRT already

Anyways that barrier doesn't matter (esp because that reads far more like a mechanic than actual potency), considering she won't ever get to activate it as she ceases to be the moment the fight starts

Due to SBA she will have it the moment the battle starts, plus while it is technically the mechanic, it still works, as the barrier is conceptualized idea of warping reality and laws to achieve the result (Smith like that, visit the Magic&Skills page for more)

+ She would have to get back into close range with a Taken, which is likely to get her hit with the Taken Virus

No idea what that is, but pretty sure anything biological won't work

 

[AlexSamDen]

Hax Layer Evaluation Thread

The purpose of this thread is to evaluate which verses do and do not qualify for layered hax under the newly codified standards, much like Glass did for type 5 acausality not too long ago. Given the massive amount of ground that needs to be covered, this will be a somewhat disorganized thread...

vsbattles.com

Says that there is no specific amount, so probably doesn't count against 3

 

[AlexSamDen]

Haha, no. They can just go into a higher key.

And that's supposed to be a matchup with first-key-only, your point?

Regardless, trying the long game with a VEX of all things is a horrible idea. Espeically if we're talking third key, we don't ** with taking, and we don't ** with Oryx.

Well, not like she won't try to end this asap

 

[WHYNAUT]

Let's try not to dogpile Alex. I'll go over everything when I write my response.

 

[AlexSamDen]

Let's try not to dogpile Alex. I'll go over everything when I write my response.

Managing so far

 

[DaReaperMan]

Let's try not to dogpile Alex. I'll go over everything when I write my response.

I went for only one on purpose because I'm just dealing with that part lol

And that's supposed to be a matchup with first-key-only, your point?

This is who has the biggest ****, no restrictions on anything.

 

[AlexSamDen]

This is who has the biggest ****, no restrictions on anything.

This is who has the biggest **** in the specific tier. It's not like you're allowed to bring a gun to Olympic fencing to back up your sword

 

[DaReaperMan]

This is who has the biggest **** in the specific tier. It's not like you're allowed to bring a gun to Olympic fencing to back up your sword

Yeah this is the strongest list, smurf stuff allowed. AKA, if you just Indiana Jones your opponent with a tier 2 death mode, that is A-Okay!

 

[AlexSamDen]

Yeah this is the strongest list, smurf stuff allowed. AKA, if you just Indiana Jones your opponent with a tier 2 death mode, that is A-Okay!

According to the wiki definition, Smurf is only about abilities, not when you can just get into a higher tier yourself. Do you think I can apply for 10-C a character that can in any time become 2C via him defeating anyone when going to it? No, as characters that can amp to a certain tier are counted in the tier they can go to

 

[WHYNAUT]

1) Can you link it?
2) Afaik all statistics relevant to a VS match up should be accessible from profile or at least from the verse page

Thought you meant being unaffected, sorry. But still, interaction, while allows them to interact with her, still doesn't allow to bypass the defenses

Her attack redirection is through reality warping, so yeah

She has really good Instinctive action that allows her to pick the best decision in any situation. The range should be in hundreds of meters and Dimensional travel is Interdimensional. Tensura ranges hadn't received an update for quite some time

Well that's probably possible, although I did remember that all abilities are stored in a CM1&IM2 core and to get any specs from it you have to override its defenses

Shouldn't this be restricted then as that can basically be viewed as an amp that allows her to go beyond her statistics and is therefore invalid for a in-tier fight?

Will do so then. Honestly Tensura profiles are also missing a lot of things, so I know the situation.
Well, the very last part is still there anyways

1) You've already been linked the thread, but here is my initial post. There's no exact number, but it was accepted by staff that it would be a large number for stronger characters. The OP doesn't cover that part.
2) I haven't found any rules regarding listing layers. It'd be best to debate with them in mind though, since they'll eventually be added anyway.

Do you mean the invul and power null? The protection against mental abilities presumably wouldn't work due to layers. I don't think the other abilities that actually matter in this match fall under "physical and natural attacks".

Wouldn't the ability with more layers win out in that case? And can she redirect something without actually knowing what it is and without having time to react once it has been activated?

Could you give a feat of a similar situation for her instincts?

The pages only list resistances to abilities that directly interfere with her skills. How would this hamper Quria's information analysis and simulation capabilities?

Well the rules of this thread don't address this directly, so it could be seen as allowed until the OP says otherwise. In this scenario Quria would only be making use of her dimensional travel and range, which are both part of her first key anyway. The second key only comes into play when Shion goes into Vex space herself.

 

[AlexSamDen]

1) You've already been linked the thread, but here is my initial post. There's no exact number, but it was accepted by staff that it would be a large number for stronger characters. The OP doesn't cover that part.

Well, as far as I skimmed through the profiles, H6B's aren't particularly powerful

Do you mean the invul and power null? The protection against mental abilities presumably wouldn't work due to layers. I don't think the other abilities that actually matter in this match fall under "physical and natural attacks".

I meant the barriers. Her resistances to mind and soul hax are unconventional and stem from both the verse mechanics and the Skills protecting the soul and mind

And can she redirect something without actually knowing what it is

Yeah, just rewrite what the reality is around yourself

and without having time to react once it has been activated?

From her profile it doesn't seem like it spreads instantaneously

Could you give a feat of a similar situation for her instincts?

When she was thrown in a separate dimension, without any idea what was really happening, she instantly picked the way that leads to them best possible opponent for her
Plus this

Optimal Action ｢最適行動, saiteki kōdō｣: Allows the user to determine the best course of action in a given situation

The pages only list resistances to abilities that directly interfere with her skills. How would this hamper Quria's information analysis and simulation capabilities?

Because the information is also in that specific core?

The second key only comes into play when Shion goes into Vex space herself.

And it shouldn't really at all

 

[Deonment]

Someone, actually link me the CRT already

This is about Ergen
Anyways here are the accepted layers, it's 10 per cultivation stage (misremembered for a sec)
Every single hax and resistance of hers has 10 layers since she's peak Qi Cultivation (some technically have more or less, but it's all enough to bypass said resistances)

Due to SBA she will have it the moment the battle starts, plus while it is technically the mechanic, it still works, as the barrier is conceptualized idea of warping reality and laws to achieve the result (Smith like that, visit the Magic&Skills page for more)

I saw the page yeah, but the issue is that like, I checked the fandom to get a visual on the barrier (since there isn't a scan for it on the profile and so I'm checking if it has any reason to stop an aura rather than being a "typical" forcefield) and like
The image for the page itself is her distinctly activating it, so it doesn't seem like she gets it at start of battle from SBA

And it shouldn't really at all

That isn't really how the rules work, hell there are multiple people on this list who take spots because they'll eventually just become a higher key and win, the same principle applies here, and even if it didn't, walking into Vex Space (a 2-A Multiverse filled with infinite Vex and a similar amount of problems where Quria has complete and total control of reality in addition to other bullshit) is just a lose con for her anyways

 

[WHYNAUT]

Well, as far as I skimmed through the profiles, H6B's aren't particularly powerful

I meant the barriers. Her resistances to mind and soul hax are unconventional and stem from both the verse mechanics and the Skills protecting the soul and mind

They're the high tiers. Layers already start within the low tiers at 9-A and it was accepted that at all levels greater paracausal power leads to more layers.

The multilayer barrier? I don't think those can stop everything in this case. Plenty of abilities wouldn't even interact with those barriers.

Yeah, just rewrite what the reality is around yourself

From her profile it doesn't seem like it spreads instantaneously

Her own existence is what's being targeted, so I don't think that helps. Not to mention the layers.

As I said, the visual flair isn't the attack itself. All targets within range are instantly affected. If a player were to stand at the edge of the arena they'd die without ever seeing the effects in the gif.

When she was thrown in a separate dimension, without any idea what was really happening, she instantly picked the way that leads to them best possible opponent for her
Plus this

That's not really a similar situation. Also is there further elaboration on Optimal Action? Because the Slime wiki's description of it doesn't sound that impressive:

Allows the user to determine the best course of action in a given situation by allowing them to see through the flow of their movements. It also enables the user to perfectly recreate anything they've done once. For instance, as long as they have scratched an enemy, they can make their attacks always deal damage; or if they've defeated an enemy once, no matter how difficult, they can defeat them again with ease.

Because the information is also in that specific core?

That doesn't stop Quria from analyzing Shion and inferring any information that can't be directly accessed. You don't need direct access to an organism's genome to develop a deep understanding of their behaviors and capabilities.

And it shouldn't really at all

As I said, Quria is only using things that are part of her first key here. Your stance would lead to various other things getting banned. For example, Type 9 Immortality would often be problematic because the true form of a character is a more powerful key.

 

[AlexSamDen]

This is about Ergen
Anyways here are the accepted layers, it's 10 per cultivation stage (misremembered for a sec)
Every single hax and resistance of hers has 10 layers since she's peak Qi Cultivation (some technically have more or less, but it's all enough to bypass said resistances)

I see. However I will continue the discussion, as it seems that there still is some things to consider, such as Shion hax and specific details about the Wan'er abilities

I saw the page yeah, but the issue is that like, I checked the fandom to get a visual on the barrier (since there isn't a scan for it on the profile and so I'm checking if it has any reason to stop an aura rather than being a "typical" forcefield) and like
The image for the page itself is her distinctly activating it, so it doesn't seem like she gets it at start of battle from SBA

That's from the anime to visualize it, in the novel, people who are constantly ready for battle just don't deactivate it, as it doesn't really consume any energy like this.
It does stop auras, in the anime and novel there is a scene where an immensely powerful character releases his aura to reduce the strain and everyone has to enhance their barriers to stop it from affecting them

That isn't really how the rules work, hell there are multiple people on this list who take spots because they'll eventually just become a higher key and win, the same principle applies here, and even if it didn't, walking into Vex Space (a 2-A Multiverse filled with infinite Vex and a similar amount of problems where Quria has complete and total control of reality in addition to other bullshit) is just a lose con for her anyways

Then the question is whether Shion can just block her from seeing her, which I'm pretty sure she can

 

[AlexSamDen]

They're the high tiers. Layers already start within the low tiers at 9-A and it was accepted that at all levels greater paracausal power leads to more layers.

How much layers is the question. Also, as I've already said, their CM1 is at best questionable in this case

The multilayer barrier? I don't think those can stop everything in this case. Plenty of abilities wouldn't even interact with those barriers.

I would like examples

Her own existence is what's being targeted, so I don't think that helps. Not to mention the layers.

As I said, the visual flair isn't the attack itself. All targets within range are instantly affected. If a player were to stand at the edge of the arena they'd die without ever seeing the effects in the gif.

Barriers and abilities that mimick their effects do protect one's existence. It can block (depending on the potency) EE, Concept destruction, Info destruction and many more. All abilities that aren't blocked by it tear through it first

That's not really a similar situation. Also is there further elaboration on Optimal Action? Because the Slime wiki's description of it doesn't sound that impressive:

Out of all possible actions that she can take she always takes the best one. There is the door choice (the dimension part), there is her instantly activating the only ability in her arsenal that can stop an attack

That doesn't stop Quria from analyzing Shion and inferring any information that can't be directly accessed. You don't need direct access to an organism's genome to develop a deep understanding of their behaviors and capabilities.

The thing is, if she's in another dimension, what abilities is Shion even be showing? None. Plus pretty sure she can block the gaze

As I said, Quria is only using things that are part of her first key here. Your stance would lead to various other things getting banned. For example, Type 9 Immortality would often be problematic because the true form of a character is a more powerful key.

It doesn't lead to a situation when to beat a character you need to beat the higher form, while in this, it does

 

[Shadowslash125]

Question, how did fft characters become 12 in the low 2-C list?

Bump

 

[ActuallySpaceMan42]

2. I don't think Black Fog is truly mindless. It's page starts with this rant, that is indicative of it being very angry:
"Had they not done enough? The makers had abandoned the natural selfishness of all creatures so that all their wisdom could brighten the Multiverse. They patiently instruct the weak races, gifting them with perfect living spaces, allowing different civilization to flourish. But they are all gone. All because of you. And now, you destroy the only thing they left behind."
How can mindless being experience anger? And if something can experience anger, it's safe to assume that is more than capable of being insane.
3. Would you like to make a matchup for place of strongest 5-A being? Same way you did previously for place of 3rd strongest.

We don't assume abilities work on things they haven't been shown to do before. It doesn't matter how high-tiered your Madness Manipulation is, if you've never been able to use it on an AI, then we don't assume it can.

 

[Deonment]

That's from the anime to visualize it, in the novel, people who are constantly ready for battle just don't deactivate it, as it doesn't really consume any energy like this.
It does stop auras, in the anime and novel there is a scene where an immensely powerful character releases his aura to reduce the strain and everyone has to enhance their barriers to stop it from affecting them

I mean, sure, but the rules regarding whether something is considered passive or not is based on whether it's literally always on
ie someone has an aura
If character A has an aura that they actively have to repress to stop it from mercing people around them, that aura is considered passive for our purposes
If character B has an aura they activate an always have on for combat, then it isn't considered passive
Whether or not the character has it on 24/7 doesn't matter; it's a matter of if they need to activate it at all or not

 

[Qurbonboev]

We don't assume abilities work on things they haven't been shown to do before. It doesn't matter how high-tiered your Madness Manipulation is, if you've never been able to use it on an AI, then we don't assume it can.

1. Our wiki page clearly stipulates limitations and abilities of each type of madness manipulation. Type 1 works on brains, and it's useless on characters without brain. Type 2 works on mind, and it's useless on beings without minds. Type 3 works on cognition, and should work on any being with cognition, without resistance. Inorganic physiology gives resistance to many forms of mind manipulation, not all of them, and madness type 3 seems one of them that still works.
2. Does Black Fog have mind or does it not? Does it have non-physical consciousness? It can get angry, does it experience any other emotions? How can it use verse magic without mind or soul?
3. Black Fog adapts to new threats through learning and studying enemy attacks. In order to defend or absorb attack, it would first need to understand it. Ultimate Void is place that is different from any conceivable cosmos, it wrecks minds of H1 beings just by sheer incomprehensibility. Does Black Fog have feats of understanding something, that just by it's complexity rendered insane H1 minds? If not, Nyarla summons waves from Ultimate Void(Spatial, Chaos, Darkness manipulation, all smurfed up), Black Fog is unable to comprehend and stop them, and dies.

 

[ActuallySpaceMan42]

1. Our wiki page clearly stipulates limitations and abilities of each type of madness manipulation. Type 1 works on brains, and it's useless on characters without brain. Type 2 works on mind, and it's useless on beings without minds. Type 3 works on cognition, and should work on any being with cognition, without resistance. Inorganic physiology gives resistance to many forms of mind manipulation, not all of them, and madness type 3 seems one of them that still works.

It CAN work if there is a precedent, but it's not guaranteed.

2. Does Black Fog have mind or does it not? Does it have non-physical consciousness? It can get angry, does it experience any other emotions? How can it use verse magic without mind or soul?

I'm not going back and forth with you about this. Unless the Madness Manipulation has shown the ability to work on computers before, there's no reason to assume it does.

 

[AlexSamDen]

I mean, sure, but the rules regarding whether something is considered passive or not is based on whether it's literally always on
ie someone has an aura
If character A has an aura that they actively have to repress to stop it from mercing people around them, that aura is considered passive for our purposes
If character B has an aura they activate an always have on for combat, then it isn't considered passive
Whether or not the character has it on 24/7 doesn't matter; it's a matter of if they need to activate it at all or not

By SBA they are just suddenly summoned from their everyday life. In everyday life she has it activated, moreover even if it doesn't (iirc you argue about Wan'er) I don't see anything that will stop her from doing that immediately, as we don't assume that auras expand at infinite speed, so with speed equal she will have time. Another question: what's the actual range for Wan'er (in meters preferably)

 

[Qurbonboev]

I'm not going back and forth with you about this. Unless the Madness Manipulation has shown the ability to work on computers before, there's no reason to assume it does.

Black Fog is not just computer. It's capable of being angry, capable of having goals, and being determined. And what are requirements for wielding magic(that Black Fog can use) in the verse?
What is your answer to my 3 point?

 

[ActuallySpaceMan42]

Black Fog is not just computer. It's capable of being angry, capable of having goals, and being determined. And what are requirements for wielding magic(that Black Fog can use) in the verse?

You don't need a mind to use magic in verse. Black Fog is just a very powerful rogue machine.

As for your 3rd Point, Black Fog and most beings on their level are already capable of viewing High 1-A things without issue.

 

[Qurbonboev]

As for your 3rd Point, Black Fog and most beings on their level are already capable of viewing High 1-A things without issue.

Viewing H1-A things without issue is not a feat. Are they capable of viewing H1-A beings, that nuke other H1-A beings that noticed them?

 

[AlipheeseXIV]

I do want to point out, that despite characters not having a mind in fiction (or being AI's or whatever) it is entirely possible for them to function and behave as if they do have these qualities. And in fact, such a thing is very common.

 

[ActuallySpaceMan42]

Viewing H1-A things without issue is not a feat. Are they capable of viewing H1-A beings, that nuke other H1-A beings that noticed them?

You need to prove your 2nd point for your 3rd point to be relevant.

 

[Qurbonboev]

You need to prove your 2nd point for your 3rd point to be relevant.

No. Even IF Black Fog is resistant to madness inducement, it still wouldn't be able to comprehend nature of waves from Ultimate Void without feats of understanding things as incomprehensible as Ultimate Void

 

[ActuallySpaceMan42]

No. Even IF Black Fog is resistant to madness inducement, it still wouldn't be able to comprehend nature of waves from Ultimate Void without feats of understanding things as incomprehensible as Ultimate Void

Honestly, none of this really matters. Everything in the Verse was blessed with [Miracle], and if the Ultimate Void is used against Black Fog, [Miracle] will immediately Deus Ex Machina the situation.

 

[Qurbonboev]

Honestly, none of this really matters. Everything in the Verse was blessed with [Miracle], and if the Ultimate Void is used against Black Fog, [Miracle] will immediately Deus Ex Machina the situation.

Ultimate Void has acaus 5, is there any counter to it in verse(probably yes, but I am asking anyways).
Nyarla has precog. It will just envelop Fog by waves, meanwhile summoning Blind Idiot God. And no Miracle is saving from Daemon-Sultan

 

[ActuallySpaceMan42]

Ultimate Void has acaus 5, is there any counter to it in verse(probably yes, but I am asking anyways).

[Miracle] can counter that, yes.

Nyarla has precog. It will just envelop Fog by waves, meanwhile summoning Blind Idiot God. And no Miracle is saving from Daemon-Sultan

There's no brute forcing this. [Miracle] stops everything Nyar tries to do, before they can even do it, and Black Fog wins.

 

[Qurbonboev]

[Miracle] can counter that, yes.

Is there any being with acaus 5 in verse?

 

[ActuallySpaceMan42]

Is there any being with acaus 5 in verse?

Yeah

 

[DaReaperMan]

Miracle stopping tier 0 summoning... yeah, no...

 

[Qurbonboev]

Yeah

Can you provide examples.

pretty sure she does not get past destiny characters.

Sorry for bothering you, but you look like a person who manages list. If Hypothetical Character A(FTL speed at best) beats Character B(Immeasurable speed) in speed equalized matchup due to having passive ability (that Character B would normally bypass due to speed), what are you gonna decide about spot placement. We have rule that states such matchups can't be added to profile pages. Is there something similar here?

 

[ActuallySpaceMan42]

Miracle stopping tier 0 summoning... yeah, no...

Nyar doesn't even have summoning Azathoth on his list of abilities. Even if he did, it's not like Azathoth would fight for him. Not to mention, I don't know how this became a match between [Miracle] and Nyar, when this is supposed to be his 5-A Avatar.

Can you provide examples.

Any profile with [Eternity].

 

[Qurbonboev]

Nyar doesn't even have summoning Azathoth on his list of abilities

Outdated profile. Fungi from Yuggoth, part XXI(Nyarlathotep) ends with Idiot Chaos blowing Earth dust

 

[ActuallySpaceMan42]

Outdated profile. Fungi from Yuggoth, part XXI(Nyarlathotep) ends with Idiot Chaos blowing Earth dust

If it's not on the profile, you can't use it.

And there's also the issue that Nyarlathotep's Avatars are, likely, really slow, and [Miracle] is way into Immeasurable.

 

[Qurbonboev]

If it's not on the profile, you can't use it.

And there's also the issue that Nyarlathotep's Avatars are, likely, really slow, and [Miracle] is way into Immeasurable.

Up to Measurable for Avatars.
Proof of Miracle being immeasurable in speed, please

 

[ActuallySpaceMan42]

Proof of Miracle being immeasurable in speed, please

Profile.