Murder Drones CRT: Black Hole Calculation Removal

[Mythic381]

So I’m technically agreeing with you that the Null can be anything and everything, but before that, what exactly is the Null canonically in Murder Drones, because that’s what’s important. It’s said both in the series and outside of it that the Null is a singularity, and no, a singularity isn’t necessarily a black hole. A singularity, by definition, is a point in space-time where the laws of physics no longer apply. In reality, the definition of a singularity is extremely vague; it’s an anomaly in our dimension that can take several forms, such as the initial conditions of the Big Bang, gravitational anomalies, or quantum instabilities. It’s something we cannot understand and that surpasses us for the moment.

So the Null is a singularity, which means the Null is an anomaly that can take different forms. We can agree on that again. And the singularity that destroyed Earth is, for me, not a black hole but a kind of rift that assimilated the planet, which leads to the dimension of the Solver, because it’s clearly established that the Solver doesn’t belong to the world of Murder Drones, and the rift is the means of assimilation for the Absolute Solver. That’s why tentacles come out of the rifts, it’s the true form of the Solver trying to grab everything around it in order to assimilate it. However, as we saw in episode 6, the Null can also be a black hole, since the Null can also be created to absorb matter. But the singularity that destroyed Earth still remains a singularity, and since a singularity can also take the form of a black hole, calculating this singularity as if it were a black hole makes sense, because that means if Cyn can create a singularity of that size, then she can also create a black hole-type singularity of that size as well, and therefore create a black hole of the size shown in the calculation. Especially since we know that Cyn destroyed Proxima Centauri, it’s shown on the computer in episode 6 of Murder Drones.

Though I kind of agree with your argument, I very much disagree with the argument that since it's a singularity and can be a blackhole, that an instance of it not appearing or functioning like one can be calculated like one.

 

[Kirua29]

Though I kind of agree with your argument, I very much disagree with the argument that since it's a singularity and can be a blackhole, that an instance of it not appearing or functioning like one can be calculated like one.

Actually, the argument is that a singularity is still a singularity, so the fact that the one that destroyed Earth was that size means that, if it wanted to, nothing would stop Cyn from creating a black hole of that size, since its power is to create singularities. And I used the destruction of Proxima Centauri as evidence, because what else but a black hole could have destroyed Proxima Centauri ?

 

[Mythic381]

Actually, the argument is that a singularity is still a singularity, so the fact that the one that destroyed Earth was that size means that, if it wanted to, nothing would stop Cyn from creating a black hole of that size, since its power is to create singularities.

That's mostly assuming that the solver would have the energy required to create a blackhole of that size, as we know whatever destroyed Earth wasn't a blackhole, meaning you can't really assume that the solver had equal energy to create that which equates the one required to create a blackhole of that same size.

And I used the destruction of Proxima Centauri as evidence, because what else but a black hole could have destroyed Proxima Centauri ?

Maybe the same thing that destroyed Earth?

 

[Kirua29]

That's mostly assuming that the solver would have the energy required to create a blackhole of that size, as we know whatever destroyed Earth wasn't a blackhole, meaning you can't really assume that the solver had equal energy to create that which equates the one required to create a blackhole of that same size.

Like I said, a singularity remains a singularity, the one that destroyed Earth was one. A black hole doesn’t inherently require more energy than another type of singularity, because both are manifestations of the same underlying phenomenon. So taking the singularity that destroyed Earth as a reference point is logically consistent.

Maybe the same thing that destroyed Earth?

I agree, that’s possible too.

 

[Mythic381]

Like I said, a singularity remains a singularity, the one that destroyed Earth was one. A black hole doesn’t inherently require more energy than another type of singularity, because both are manifestations of the same underlying phenomenon. So taking the singularity that destroyed Earth as a reference point is logically consistent.

It would, considering the fact a black hole's size is calculated way different from anything else, so you can't calculate any other singularity the same way, which is why we can't assume the energy required to create that black hole would equate the NULL that destroyed Earth.

And I'd like to include that generally other singularities can't be calculated the same way as a black hole, except something like a white hole, which functions oppositely to a black hole. Big bang, Big crunch, Wormhole, etc, can't really be done the same way.

 

[Kirua29]

It would, considering the fact a black hole's size is calculated way different from anything else, so you can't calculate any other singularity the same way, which is why we can't assume the energy required to create that black hole would equate the NULL that destroyed Earth.

And I'd like to include that generally other singularities can't be calculated the same way as a black hole, except something like a white hole, which functions oppositely to a black hole. Big bang, Big crunch, Wormhole, etc, can't really be done the same way.

The Null is a singularity that can take different forms, we both agree on that.

Then, the Null that was created to destroy Earth isn’t a black hole, since it doesn’t absorb matter, we agree on that too.

However, since the Null is a singularity that can take different forms, the Null that was used to destroy Earth could have taken another form, like that of a black hole, especially since Uzi has already shown the ability to create black holes with null. So, the Null that destroyed Earth could have been a black hole, except the Solver seeks assimilation, not destruction. And creating a spatial rift into another world to carry out an assimilation would logically require more energy than a mere black hole. I think we can agree on all of that. Because honestly my thinking seems 100% logical to me.

And sorry if you find me repetitive, but I'm trying to improve my argument in case we have to do a CRT.

 

[Mythic381]

However, since the Null is a singularity that can take different forms, the Null that was used to destroy Earth could have taken another form, like that of a black hole, especially since Uzi has already shown the ability to create black holes with null. So, the Null that destroyed Earth could have been a black hole

Except we haven't seen her create black holes of these sizes, as the 2 instances I mentioned were very small to be compared, and the fact that a black hole of that size logically should've destroyed all of the solar system, so I don't really agree with that.

except the Solver seeks assimilation

Define "assimilation" because a black hole by definition "assimilates" matter.

not destruction. And creating a spatial rift into another world to carry out an assimilation would logically require more energy than a mere black hole. I think we can agree on all of that. Because honestly my thinking seems 100% logical to me.

Not really? The reason a black hole of that size requires a lot of energy is because even small black holes would do enormous damage, compare that to a black hole of that size, which would logically destroy a whole solar system.

And sorry if you find me repetitive, but I'm trying to improve my argument in case we have to do a CRT.

No worries.

 

[Kirua29]

Except we haven't seen her create black holes of these sizes, as the 2 instances I mentioned were very small to be compared, and the fact that a black hole of that size logically should've destroyed all of the solar system, so I don't really agree with that.

We don't need it, the simple fact that she is able to transform her null into a black hole and that opening a spatial rift to another world is enough because doing that is more complicated than creating a simple black hole.

Define "assimilation" because a black hole by definition "assimilates" matter.

Assimilation is the solver's goal, seeking to merge with everything in the universe.

For a split second, this message appears when Cyn opens a breach in the center of Cooper9.

Not really? The reason a black hole of that size requires a lot of energy is because even small black holes would do enormous damage, compare that to a black hole of that size, which would logically destroy a whole solar system.

More destruction ≠ more power. A black hole is just the collapse of a supernova, whereas a rift would be a connection between two dimensions through a breach.

 

[Mythic381]

We don't need it, the simple fact that she is able to transform her null into a black hole and that opening a spatial rift to another world is enough because doing that is more complicated than creating a simple black hole.

You would when you are discussing the energy required to create something that does a destruction feat, you can't assume that since she's shown creating something that destroyed earth that it would do the same for a black hole especially when the energy required to do both is not equal.

Assimilation is the solver's goal, seeking to merge with everything in the universe.

For a split second, this message appears when Cyn opens a breach in the center of Cooper9.

What do you mean? Is this not just saying that it wants to take over the world? Also how would it realistically merge with everything in the universe if it's going to cause a big crunch?

More destruction ≠ more power. A black hole is just the collapse of a supernova, whereas a rift would be a connection between two dimensions through a breach.

No? the reason it's higher is because the higher the energy output is, the more energy output needed to create it, that's the whole reason a black hole of that size is solar system level, because it can destroy a solar system. The rift part seems to be more of an assumption than what it actually is.

 

[Kirua29]

You would when you are discussing the energy required to create something that does a destruction feat, you can't assume that since she's shown creating something that destroyed earth that it would do the same for a black hole especially when the energy required to do both is not equal.

So are you saying that creating a black hole requires more energy than a rift in the third dimension ?

What do you mean? Is this not just saying that it wants to take over the world?

I just wanted to answer your question, what I meant by assimilation. I wasn’t trying to prove that the solver is uni-level, because, you already know my opinion, and i would be off-topic.

Is this not just saying that it wants to take over the world?

Well, like I said, I don’t really want to go back to that, but if we add up all the existing evidence, and also consider the fact that “#destructiontime” is written next to it, then no.

Also how would it realistically merge with everything in the universe if it's going to cause a big crunch?

The Big Crunch is followed by a Big Bang, so if the Solver creates a Big Crunch, it would then become the Big Bang, it would be a faster assimilation process.

The rift part seems to be more of an assumption than what it actually is.

What I mean by “rift” is the Null from which the Solver’s tentacles emerge to perform the assimilation. This process is different from the others and works somewhat like the principle of a rift, that’s why I call it a rift. Since we know that the Solver doesn’t belong, we can conclude that the rifts it uses are part of the assimilation process.

According to the leaks from the Glitch-Inn Discord server, the Absolute Solver supposedly has total control over everything within the third dimension, which would be additional evidence. I recommend checking out that thread, it’s from another site similar to VSBW. But I have a question: does VSBW accept threads coming from other sites of the same kind, or not? Just so I know whether I need to make an equivalent version for VSBW or not. Because this thing will be part of the crt at 100%

 

[Mythic381]

So are you saying that creating a black hole requires more energy than a rift in the third dimension ?

I don't really know how a rift would be quantified to be honest, and not sure whether or not it does more or less destruction than a black hole.

I just wanted to answer your question, what I meant by assimilation. I wasn’t trying to prove that the solver is uni-level, because, you already know my opinion, and i would be off-topic.

Taking over the universe isn't uni-level really.

Well, like I said, I don’t really want to go back to that, but if we add up all the existing evidence, and also consider the fact that “#destructiontime” is written next to it, then no.

"computing numbers that need to be computed time to take over da world" (we can ignore this point since it isn't that much relevant to topic.)

The Big Crunch is followed by a Big Bang, so if the Solver creates a Big Crunch, it would then become the Big Bang, it would be a faster assimilation process.

Fair.

What I mean by “rift” is the Null from which the Solver’s tentacles emerge to perform the assimilation. This process is different from the others and works somewhat like the principle of a rift, that’s why I call it a rift. Since we know that the Solver doesn’t belong, we can conclude that the rifts it uses are part of the assimilation process.

Black holes also assimilate stuff, so I wouldn't inherently say that point means they'd be on the same level or higher.

According to the leaks from the Glitch-Inn Discord server, the Absolute Solver supposedly has total control over everything within the third dimension, which would be additional evidence. I recommend checking out that thread, it’s from another site similar to VSBW.

Seems to me like spatial manipulation, wouldn't inherently say it has absolute control over it to the point it can manipulate absolutely everything in reality, considering it needs 87 days to cause a big crunch and is incapable of doing the assimilation process any quicker.

But I have a question: does VSBW accept threads coming from other sites of the same kind, or not? Just so I know whether I need to make an equivalent version for VSBW or not. Because this thing will be part of the crt at 100%

No, highly frowned upon.

 

[Kirua29]

I don't really know how a rift would be quantified to be honest, and not sure whether or not it does more or less destruction than a black hole.

That’s exactly what I wanted you to say, we can’t quantify it with our current science, because it goes beyond everything we can understand about our world. If a spatial rift were less energetic, we’d see more of them than black holes. So either it doesn’t exist (which is the most logical conclusion), or it’s extremely rare. In both cases, that shows a quantity that defines logic. So if it can create a breach in the third dimension, it can create a black hole of the same size.

Taking over the universe isn't uni-level really.

That’s not my point, I was just giving you what I meant by assimilation. I’m not trying to prove that it’s uni-level.

"computing numbers that need to be computed time to take over da world" (we can ignore this point since it isn't that much relevant to topic.)

what I was saying here was just what I meant by assimilation, not proof of a uni level. Or at least, on its own, it’s not enough.

Black holes also assimilate stuff, so I wouldn't inherently say that point means they'd be on the same level or higher.

It’s not the fact that it assimilates matter that shows it’s a powerful phenomenon, it’s the fact that it’s a connection between one world and another.

Seems to me like spatial manipulation, wouldn't inherently say it has absolute control over it to the point it can manipulate absolutely everything in reality, considering it needs 87 days to cause a big crunch and is incapable of doing the assimilation process any quicker.

Not absolutely everything, but almost everything, it manipulates everything that exists in the universe through the XYZ angle, mass, structure, etc.

No, highly frowned upon.

Fck, that would’ve saved me some time, oh well.

 

[Mythic381]

That’s exactly what I wanted you to say, we can’t quantify it with our current science, because it goes beyond everything we can understand about our world. If a spatial rift were less energetic, we’d see more of them than black holes. So either it doesn’t exist (which is the most logical conclusion), or it’s extremely rare. In both cases, that shows a quantity that defines logic. So if it can create a breach in the third dimension, it can create a black hole of the same size.

Not being able to quantify it with our current science doesn't mean that it's quantification would totally be beyond a black hole, and again we aren't sure if that's an actual rift or another ability that NULL has, so really we can't assume that.

It’s not the fact that it assimilates matter that shows it’s a powerful phenomenon, it’s the fact that it’s a connection between one world and another.

Which again, doesn't really mean we can quantify it's energy output via that, also how exactly would a spatial rift cause the destruction of a planet anyways, a spatial rift is defined as "a physical opening in the spacetime continuum, which allows for passage from one point to another" not really something made for destruction.

Not absolutely everything, but almost everything, it manipulates everything that exists in the universe through the XYZ angle, mass, structure, etc.

Okay, doesn't really help much with the idea considering:

A: It would take 87 days to cause a big crunch.
B: We haven't seen it manipulate/create a black hole on that level.
C: Has shown limits to its power.

 

[Kirua29]

Not being able to quantify it with our current science doesn't mean that it's quantification would totally be beyond a black hole, and again we aren't sure if that's an actual rift or another ability that NULL has, so really we can't assume that.

Ah, but that's obvious, it's an ability that the null has, it's a singularity, so by definition, a point where all the laws of physics that we know no longer apply, if we discovered one day the existence of such a fault, it would logically be classified as singularities.

Which again, doesn't really mean we can quantify it's energy output via that, also how exactly would a spatial rift cause the destruction of a planet anyways, a spatial rift is defined as "a physical opening in the spacetime continuum, which allows for passage from one point to another" not really something made for destruction.

That's not my argument, I'm not trying to quantify anything, already because we can't quantify anything that literally has no scientific basis, my only and true argument is that the null is a singularity, so it can take several forms that can be categorized as a singularity, so the null that it created, and which was the size of a planet (roughly) should be able to take any form that encompasses a singularity, therefore a black hole, so calculating the singularity that is the size of a planet as if it were a black hole and that it shows the capacity to create black holes with its singularities is coherent.

It would take 87 days to cause a big crunch.

87 days for a phenomenon that takes billions of years is very little, I say that it can do whatever it wants, but I never said that it is instantaneous either.

B: We haven't seen it manipulate/create a black hole on that level.

No need since singularities can be black holes so if it can create a singularity of that size, it can create a black hole of that size.

C: Has shown limits to its power.

What else besides the fact that it's time limited?

 

[Mythic381]

Ah, but that's obvious, it's an ability that the null has, it's a singularity, so by definition, a point where all the laws of physics that we know no longer apply, if we discovered one day the existence of such a fault, it would logically be classified as singularities.

I fail to see how that counters my argument, it's a singularity yes, doesn't mean it's quantified like a black hole.

That's not my argument, I'm not trying to quantify anything, already because we can't quantify anything that literally has no scientific basis, my only and true argument is that the null is a singularity, so it can take several forms that can be categorized as a singularity, so the null that it created, and which was the size of a planet (roughly) should be able to take any form that encompasses a singularity, therefore a black hole, so calculating the singularity that is the size of a planet as if it were a black hole and that it shows the capacity to create black holes with its singularities is coherent.

It wasn't the size of the planet, we directly see the NULL that destroyed Earth being smaller than it. Again, not all objects that surround a black hole can be quantified in the same way, especially like a black hole which uses a whole different formula for it, so I still disagree with scaling a NULL to a blackhole.

87 days for a phenomenon that takes billions of years is very little, I say that it can do whatever it wants, but I never said that it is instantaneous either.

That still shows limitations to it, realistically something with the level to manipulate reality on absolute levels could assimilate it quicker.

No need since singularities can be black holes so if it can create a singularity of that size, it can create a black hole of that size.

Can be, doesn't mean that it would take the same level of energy to create something with it and a black hole.

What else besides the fact that it's time limited?

Couldn't possess/hack Uzi.
Uzi consuming her heart causes her to fuse with her and not have control anymore.

 

[Kirua29]

I fail to see how that counters my argument, it's a singularity yes, doesn't mean it's quantified like a black hole.

It wasn't the size of the planet, we directly see the NULL that destroyed Earth being smaller than it. Again, not all objects that surround a black hole can be quantified in the same way, especially like a black hole which uses a whole different formula for it, so I still disagree with scaling a NULL to a blackhole.

Can be, doesn't mean that it would take the same level of energy to create something with it and a black hole.

I decided to put everything in the same category, since it's the same topic scattered everywhere.
I shouldn't have gone off in all directions talking about everything and anything at the same time which can be too chaotic, so I'll keep it very simple.

The Null is a singularity, which means that what we see in episode 6 is a singularity.
A singularity can evolve into a black hole, and the Absolute Solver confirms this by demonstrating the ability to create one, it actually does so twice in episode 6.
Therefore, the Null can become a black hole, the fact that they were small black holes doesn't change anything, since he showed the ability to transform a singularity into a black hole, especially since it was Uzi who made them.

A singularity is the central point of a black hole; every black hole has one at its core. So, if the singularity we see in episode 6 were to become a black hole, the resulting damage would be far more catastrophic than what the current calculation shows.

In fact, based on this reasoning, that calculation is practically a low-end feat, since we’re not even dealing with a full black hole, but a singularity itself. If we were to calculate the size of the black hole that could produce such a singularity, it would far exceed the scale of an entire solar system.

I honestly don’t see how anyone could disagree with my argument.

That still shows limitations to it, realistically something with the level to manipulate reality on absolute levels could assimilate it quicker.

Total manipulation of reality ≠ necessarily instantaneous

Couldn't possess/hack Uzi.
Uzi consuming her heart causes her to fuse with her and not have control anymore.

Fair point

 

[Mythic381]

I decided to put everything in the same category, since it's the same topic scattered everywhere.
I shouldn't have gone off in all directions talking about everything and anything at the same time which can be too chaotic, so I'll keep it very simple.

The Null is a singularity, which means that what we see in episode 6 is a singularity.
A singularity can evolve into a black hole, and the Absolute Solver confirms this by demonstrating the ability to create one, it actually does so twice in episode 6.
Therefore, the Null can become a black hole, the fact that they were small black holes doesn't change anything, since he showed the ability to transform a singularity into a black hole, especially since it was Uzi who made them.

A singularity is the central point of a black hole; every black hole has one at its core. So, if the singularity we see in episode 6 were to become a black hole, the resulting damage would be far more catastrophic than what the current calculation shows.

In fact, based on this reasoning, that calculation is practically a low-end feat, since we’re not even dealing with a full black hole, but a singularity itself. If we were to calculate the size of the black hole that could produce such a singularity, it would far exceed the scale of an entire solar system.

I honestly don’t see how anyone could disagree with my argument.

It showed the ability to only create 2 black holes of very small sizes (even have doubts with the first example I gave, considering it reduced stuff to organic waste, and the fact both black holes barely did any destruction considering their size would annihilate a planet.)

Honestly I don't feel like repeating the same argument that I've said multiple times, I'll just leave this.

Total manipulation of reality ≠ necessarily instantaneous

I don't think it has to be necessarily instantaneous, but the fact it can manipulate all of reality and would still require 87 days to cause a big crunch concerns it's actually power-level and it's manipulation over reality.

 

[Kirua29]

It showed the ability to only create 2 black holes of very small sizes (even have doubts with the first example I gave, considering it reduced stuff to organic waste, and the fact both black holes barely did any destruction considering their size would annihilate a planet.)

Honestly I don't feel like repeating the same argument that I've said multiple times, I'll just leave this.

honestly, saying it’s not a black hole just because the damage isn’t “realistic” would be like saying Izuku isn’t relativistic+ because when he dodges Shigaraki’s radio wave, he doesn’t create a shockwave that wipes out the city around him. So that argument is not relevant,

And likewise, if you’re planning to say that if Cyn creates a black hole it wouldn’t be as powerful as a real one, so it’s not worth calculating, that would once again be like saying that since Izuku doesn’t destroy his surroundings when he dodges a shockwave, we can’t calculate his speed. I just prefer to predict your next reply.

I don't think it has to be necessarily instantaneous, but the fact it can manipulate all of reality and would still require 87 days to cause a big crunch concerns it's actually power-level and it's manipulation over reality.

For me, it’s more like a form of limited reality manipulation, kind of like the difference between omniscience and near-omniscience.

 

[Mythic381]

honestly, saying it’s not a black hole just because the damage isn’t “realistic” would be like saying Izuku isn’t relativistic+ because when he dodges Shigaraki’s radio wave, he doesn’t create a shockwave that wipes out the city around him. So that argument is not relevant,

Many fictional media tend to ignore speed feats in destruction, problem here is we are talking about a black hole that does nothing like a black hole, no pulling stuff in with immense gravity, it just causes an explosion, creating a hole in the wall upon appearing, and reduces stuff to organic waste, not something a black hole should actually do, in any of these cases.

And likewise, if you’re planning to say that if Cyn creates a black hole it wouldn’t be as powerful as a real one, so it’s not worth calculating, that would once again be like saying that since Izuku doesn’t destroy his surroundings when he dodges a shockwave, we can’t calculate his speed. I just prefer to predict your next reply.

No? My whole point again is the assumption the NULLs she can create require equal energy to a black hole of the same size just because they're also singularities, despite the fact the way a black hole is calculated is very much unrelated to the singularity.

For me, it’s more like a form of limited reality manipulation, kind of like the difference between omniscience and near-omniscience.

Doesn't really help in this case.

 

[Kirua29]

Many fictional media tend to ignore speed feats in destruction, problem here is we are talking about a black hole that does nothing like a black hole, no pulling stuff in with immense gravity, it just causes an explosion, creating a hole in the wall upon appearing, and reduces stuff to organic waste, not something a black hole should actually do, in any of these cases.

Ok, Okay, I'll stop for now, come back probably later, or not, good evening.

 

[Mythic381]

Ok, I figured out something, it's way too complicated and it takes too much effort to defend this calculation, I'd better drop it so as not to shoot myself in the foot in my crt, so I give up, good game and good evening.

Thank you and goodnight!

 

[FreezerMonkey]

Sorry, everyone, I'm back. Had to take a hiatus while I dealt with school.

seriosly, the being who controls gravity and clearly can create black holes, apparently, does not create black holes even when it was shown that they control gravity???????????????

Yes, if there's a constant lack of gravity that would have to be consistent with the size of said black holes.

Once again, just sophistry... You reject canonical statements without contradicting them because you know you can’t contradict them. And telling me that I’m using a diversion tactic, when all I’m doing is pointing out that your only argument is sophistry. And once again you’re proving me right...

Get it through your head that saying feats > statement, without any elaboration, is just a rhetorical trick, therefore a scam.

Because once again, just because a feat is better doesn’t mean the statement is false, especially when the statement is canon. To say it’s false, you’d then have to use a feat, and that’s when you can say feats > statements. it’s Easter eggs tied to the lore… so they can’t be debunked, especially when they’ve been canonized.

And I reject canonical statements because what we see on screen contradicts what the statements say.

I'm more of a casual fan of Murder Drones (Cyn is the best), but using my knowledge of it and its scaling, the NULLs are obviously meant to be black holes. Disagree FRA.

Except how can it be a black hole if even the basic properties aren't there?

Bro saying statements should not be used is so corny when these MFs turn around and use and RELY on statements to scale cosmology. You hardly ever see a visual cosmology in fact there is not one instance we are ever shown an outerversal structure on screen for any verse.
So yeah, disagree that we should just completely disregard statements. Disagree FRA

I didn't say statements shouldn't be used. Don't strawman me. I said that what we see on screen takes priority over the statements, and if the statements contradict, the on screen stuff should be taken instead. I'm fine with statements in general.

Anyway, this it to all of you, the two examples I gave in my original post aare objectively not black holes. They don't display the necessary properties, thus cannot be calced like black holes.

 

[Thermor]

From the side of supporters, I think they mention the black holes are approvable to calced because of consistent statements which puts it over the abnormal onscreen behaviors. I personally think it's possible considering fiction (and by extension the site standards) dont take irl physics too seriously like Gyomei being rated as relavistic in this website despite he uses sound to know the location of his enemies (despite rated as rel as well).

 

[FreezerMonkey]

From the side of supporters, I think they mention the black holes are approvable to calced because of consistent statements which puts it over the abnormal onscreen behaviors. I personally think it's possible considering fiction (and by extension the site standards) dont take irl physics too seriously like Gyomei being rated as relavistic in this website despite he uses sound to know the location of his enemies (despite rated as rel as well).

I don't see how wthat can be the case though? Consistent statements mean nothing here, because the nulls blatantly don't have the most basic properties of a black hole.

 

[Thermor]

I don't see how wthat can be the case though? Consistent statements mean nothing here, because the nulls blatantly don't have the most basic properties of a black hole.

For the site standards, properties doesn't seem important as long you have statements considering characters who are FTL, should be invisible by default as the basic properties of faster than light shouldn't allow to be bounced/touched by the particles.

 

[Mythic381]

From the side of supporters, I think they mention the black holes are approvable to calced because of consistent statements which puts it over the abnormal onscreen behaviors. I personally think it's possible considering fiction (and by extension the site standards) dont take irl physics too seriously like Gyomei being rated as relavistic in this website despite he uses sound to know the location of his enemies (despite rated as rel as well).

Sure, they don't irl physics too seriously, but it still makes no sense that all instances of NULLs are actual black holes, unless you're trying to argue a black hole can be a disk that slices through stuff, it makes more sense that it's a singularity which can take the shape of different objects with different abilities under the classification "NULL."

 

[FreezerMonkey]

For the site standards, properties doesn't seem important as long you have statements considering characters who are FTL, should be invisible by default as the basic properties of faster than light shouldn't allow to be bounced/touched by the particles.

If that is true, then this sites standards are outdated and kinda suck. As for your FTL example, it's suspension of disbelief. Obviously, we need to be able to see the characters. But when a supposed "black hole" fails to exhibit even a minor gravitational pull? Yeah, suspension of disbelief just becomes plain disbelief. Your immersion breaks.

 

[Kirua29]

And I reject canonical statements because what we see on screen contradicts what the statements say.

At what point is it contradicted that it’s a singularity?
Because a singularity is a point in the universe where the laws of physics, as we know them, no longer apply.

 

[Mythic381]

At what point is it contradicted that it’s a singularity?
Because a singularity is a point in the universe where the laws of physics, as we know them, no longer apply.

Pretty sure he's referring to them being black holes, not singularities.

 

[Kirua29]

Pretty sure he's referring to them being black holes, not singularities.

Yes, that’s what he just told me.

Many fictional media tend to ignore speed feats in destruction, problem here is we are talking about a black hole that does nothing like a black hole, no pulling stuff in with immense gravity, it just causes an explosion, creating a hole in the wall upon appearing, and reduces stuff to organic waste, not something a black hole should actually do, in any of these cases.

By the way, I’ve kind of changed my mind. I went way too far with the explanations last time, when there’s actually a simple rational one.
No, it’s definitely not a black hole, that’s for sure. It doesn’t absorb matter, so it’s not a black hole; that part I haven’t changed my mind on.

But it’s probably a Big Crunch, as described in all the Easter eggs, whether they’re in the series itself or outside of it.

So basically, it’s reality collapsing in on itself, a kind of reality warping, a mix of AP and durability-negating hax, and DC.
A localized Big Crunch that could potentially expand to a universal scale in 87days,

 

[FreezerMonkey]

At what point is it contradicted that it’s a singularity?
Because a singularity is a point in the universe where the laws of physics, as we know them, no longer apply.

You're making arguments up now. I never said anything about singularities. I said they're not black holes, as they display no properties congruent with a black hole.

 

[Thermor]

If that is true, then this sites standards are outdated and kinda suck. As for your FTL example, it's suspension of disbelief. Obviously, we need to be able to see the characters. But when a supposed "black hole" fails to exhibit even a minor gravitational pull? Yeah, suspension of disbelief just becomes plain disbelief. Your immersion breaks.

If you think the site standards suck, you can go ahead make a staff thread about it.

 

[FreezerMonkey]

If you think the site standards suck, you can go ahead make a staff thread about it.

Perhaps I will, if I find the time for it.

 

[Kirua29]

You're making arguments up now. I never said anything about singularities. I said they're not black holes, as they display no properties congruent with a black hole.

My bad, I thought you were talking about singularities, from what I remember.


But I’d like to remind you that it’s actually stated in the Easter eggs that the Null is a big crunch, and as I already said, big crunches and black holes are calculated in the same way, so the calculation is correct.

 

[Kirua29]

From the side of supporters, I think they mention the black holes are approvable to calced because of consistent statements which puts it over the abnormal onscreen behaviors. I personally think it's possible considering fiction (and by extension the site standards) dont take irl physics too seriously like Gyomei being rated as relavistic in this website despite he uses sound to know the location of his enemies (despite rated as rel as well).

That’s not the reason he’s considered relativistic, it’s because he’s able to keep up with Kokushibo, who is himself scaled as relativistic.

 

[Thermor]

Perhaps I will, if I find the time for it.

Well that would make this CRT useless since we are using site standards. I think we wait for that before continuing this.

 

[Thermor]

That’s not the reason he’s considered relativistic, it’s because he’s able to keep up with Kokushibo, who is himself scaled as relativistic.

The point I was making, fiction doesnt take irl physics too seriously as Gyomei realistically shouldn't be able to hear Kokushibo's movements considering Koku is faster than sound.

 

[Kirua29]

The point I was making, fiction doesnt take irl physics too seriously as Gyomei realistically shouldn't be able to hear Kokushibo's movements considering Koku is faster than sound.

Ah, yeah, but that makes sense, otherwise, by definition, nothing could be faster than light. But in science-fic, it is.

 

[AlloyAmi]

Found a storyboard statement that calls the nulls "black holes" (pause at the start of 6 seconds and look at top left), but yeah i also agree that a majority of them simply do not behave like one.

Regarding the ones that destroy planets, im starting to think its like the tentacles literally ripping it apart kinda like we see in episode 8 and the earth image is just that x10, though a lot of center is also gone so the singularity in the middle could have potentially consumed it kinda like here.

This is kinda implied with copper 9 as its hole after the matter in the planet before it can grow to be unstoppable is shaped like the solver, which a traditional explosion or black hole obviously wouldnt do, and is more likely the solvers intention.

overall MD logic be weird ig but at the very least the profiles should account that reaching that earth destroying singularity is overtime, as obviously it was stopped before it could reach near the point of how the Earth's singularity was. So whatever rating that ends up staying as should be listed as "up to (tier)"

 

[FreezerMonkey]

My bad, I thought you were talking about singularities, from what I remember.


But I’d like to remind you that it’s actually stated in the Easter eggs that the Null is a big crunch, and as I already said, big crunches and black holes are calculated in the same way, so the calculation is correct.

This is a contradiction. Let me explain

A singularity is a theoretical point of infinite density where our current understanding of physics ends(will note that the laws of physics don't really "break" in a singularity". The big crunch is not a singularity. It's a cosmological theory where the expansion of the universes slows, and eventually reverses, collapsing everything into a singularity again. So while it ends in a singularity, it itself is not a singulariity. They're different stages of the story. So the nulls cannot be both a singularity and the big crunch simultaenously, though I'll note, based on the definition I gave, they're not big crunches anyway