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Hello everyone. It's been a while since my last CRT involving both Undertale and Deltarune, but the results are finally getting released, especially since today is a month since the 10th anniversary.
The following is the prelude to a series of CRTs that will further fix and update both games (especially with the new feats from Chapters 3 and 4, but that's gonna be there, as this CRT is about Undertale after all), and this would have been significantly far more difficult without the help I've received to do this.
So, before continuing, I'll list the invividuals who have been major contributors here: @TheOrangeGuy09, @Eden_Warlock99, @LittleGuy99, @Qurbonboev, @Monsters_fight and @Psychomaster35... and @Arceus0x was there too, somewhere.
These are all just minor additions like new cutscenes, but some are genuine extensions of places that were never explored in the actual game, like the Old and New Ruins, the school, a whole new underwater area, and even the part of the house of the Annoying Dog that was left "unpatched" in the original game.
There is in fact a part which can be problematic, AKA the entire Spamton segment which would imply that he'd be canon in Undertale and also a replacement of Sans, but there are two issues here:
However, this is wrong, as he only mentions that he could never go past him to get the SOULs, which he specifies as him showing them to him (which only does to Frisk given them being the last human to kill). Him being unable to beat Asgore no matter the LV would also contradict his claim of him having killed everyone in some of his runs.
BUT, Asgore would still be superior to a LV 1 Flowey, due to him being equal in stats with Toriel, who could easily erase Flowey’s bullets and knock him out with a single attack.
However, the evidence for people like Undyne scaling to Asgore is kinda shaky, especially when no character besides Toriel has direct combat showings against base Flowey anyway, and he has no real CHECK STATs for almost all his forms besides the GoH Asriel one. Plus Flowey being on the same level of Asgore and Toriel fits given that he’s still the dust of Asriel combined with some DT, and Asriel, just like his parents, is a Boss Monster, the strongest type.
Regardless, there is a replacement for the current Mettaton’s 0.41 Tons calc, that being this one of 2.42 Tons (so still High 8-C, but lower), which would basically scale to basically everyone whose stats are below 80. The gap between the 2 calcs is barely above x3, and said gap is still fitting with Undyne knocking down Asgore in a casual sparring session, and overwhelming Toriel off-screen. Regarding how this applied to the peak human SOUL scaling, I'll get to it in the next CRT.
LS wise, however, the new calc upgrades the verse (still within Class M though) from the current 3304 Tons to 11730 Tons, and everyone with 18 and above ATK would scale from it (especially when Undyne, the same one who uses LS to flex her strength, still calls Papyrus very strong).
Sans' TK also would scale from Papyrus' LS, given that between the two, Sans' TK is far better, and there's no reason to say that Papyrus' TK is that lower than his ATK (which I'll explain right now in the following section).
In Undertale, this has been mentioned in the Entries 1 and 2 of the True Lab where it’s stated that the Barrier is locked by SOUL power, and that enough of it is required to break it, with Papyrus mentioning that Asgore needs Frisk’s SOUL to get enough SOUL Power to break the barrier, and that the power of 7 SOULs is needed to destroy the barrier. In fact, the power of the single Human SOUL at peak is stated to be equal to the power of all the monsters’ SOULs at once.
And said power of the SOUL is shown in multiple ways:
(Yeah Sans is still one of the fastest guys despite his 1 ATK/DEF stats, but he’s literally made to cheat around the rules of the game, so him being a canon outlier in this fits his character).
The following is the prelude to a series of CRTs that will further fix and update both games (especially with the new feats from Chapters 3 and 4, but that's gonna be there, as this CRT is about Undertale after all), and this would have been significantly far more difficult without the help I've received to do this.
So, before continuing, I'll list the invividuals who have been major contributors here: @TheOrangeGuy09, @Eden_Warlock99, @LittleGuy99, @Qurbonboev, @Monsters_fight and @Psychomaster35... and @Arceus0x was there too, somewhere.
The canon status of the 10th anniversary content
I believe that the elephant of the room here is whether to treat the new content of the 10th anniversary livestreams, which can be both seen here in their entirety, but if you want to see just the new stuff, just go here.These are all just minor additions like new cutscenes, but some are genuine extensions of places that were never explored in the actual game, like the Old and New Ruins, the school, a whole new underwater area, and even the part of the house of the Annoying Dog that was left "unpatched" in the original game.
There is in fact a part which can be problematic, AKA the entire Spamton segment which would imply that he'd be canon in Undertale and also a replacement of Sans, but there are two issues here:
- The part is not a real part of the game, it happens after that Spamton A. Spamton injected that big-ass floppy disk in the screen, which effectively caused the game to be hacked. It did not have Spamton as a genuine part of it, it's just a result of actual edit.
- Toby Fox says explicitly when he does not want stuff to be canon (like with the livestream of the Spamton Sweespstakes, the kickstarter or the merch), but regarding the 10th anniversary livestream he just said that these areas are just "like a what if" that "was always there, it never wasn't there and never will not be there", which is a reference to how Frisk will never meet everyone in the Underground even if they walk all over it, which is something that is already a fact in the actual game as for example you never engage with all the population of the Underground which is stated to be in thousands, but you can fight with only 104 monsters in total besides bosses, other than the fact you cannot fight people like Alphys or the vendors, or also how New Home is a big city full of homes which we never interact with. Meaning that it's actually the "true" version of the game that is probably more canon than the game we played if anything.
Regarding the Flowey scaling + Mettaton feat upgrade
We currently scale Asgore as above Flowey's 7.28 Tons feat based on this statement from the latter which supposedly means that no matter how much LV he gains.However, this is wrong, as he only mentions that he could never go past him to get the SOULs, which he specifies as him showing them to him (which only does to Frisk given them being the last human to kill). Him being unable to beat Asgore no matter the LV would also contradict his claim of him having killed everyone in some of his runs.
BUT, Asgore would still be superior to a LV 1 Flowey, due to him being equal in stats with Toriel, who could easily erase Flowey’s bullets and knock him out with a single attack.
However, the evidence for people like Undyne scaling to Asgore is kinda shaky, especially when no character besides Toriel has direct combat showings against base Flowey anyway, and he has no real CHECK STATs for almost all his forms besides the GoH Asriel one. Plus Flowey being on the same level of Asgore and Toriel fits given that he’s still the dust of Asriel combined with some DT, and Asriel, just like his parents, is a Boss Monster, the strongest type.
Regardless, there is a replacement for the current Mettaton’s 0.41 Tons calc, that being this one of 2.42 Tons (so still High 8-C, but lower), which would basically scale to basically everyone whose stats are below 80. The gap between the 2 calcs is barely above x3, and said gap is still fitting with Undyne knocking down Asgore in a casual sparring session, and overwhelming Toriel off-screen. Regarding how this applied to the peak human SOUL scaling, I'll get to it in the next CRT.
LS wise, however, the new calc upgrades the verse (still within Class M though) from the current 3304 Tons to 11730 Tons, and everyone with 18 and above ATK would scale from it (especially when Undyne, the same one who uses LS to flex her strength, still calls Papyrus very strong).
Sans' TK also would scale from Papyrus' LS, given that between the two, Sans' TK is far better, and there's no reason to say that Papyrus' TK is that lower than his ATK (which I'll explain right now in the following section).
SOUL Power is UES
The last part of the CRT is that I do believe that SOUL power as a UES is something that is established in the verse, but the hints aren’t that obvious.In Undertale, this has been mentioned in the Entries 1 and 2 of the True Lab where it’s stated that the Barrier is locked by SOUL power, and that enough of it is required to break it, with Papyrus mentioning that Asgore needs Frisk’s SOUL to get enough SOUL Power to break the barrier, and that the power of 7 SOULs is needed to destroy the barrier. In fact, the power of the single Human SOUL at peak is stated to be equal to the power of all the monsters’ SOULs at once.
And said power of the SOUL is shown in multiple ways:
- As stated in the Monster Physiology page, Monsters’ bodies are made of magic just like Humans are made of water, and thus can attack using Magic as something natural, and said Magic allows them to attack the SOUL and other non-corporeal beings like Ghosts, and that said magic is attuned with their SOULs as well. And this notion of Magic-SOUL power being connected to the physical strength is indeed supported, as:
- In the Aaron fight, where he not only physically attacks with his muscles, but also attacks with his sweat in the turn after, which is confirmed from the flavor text that Aaron is literally sweating bullets.
- Multiple monsters use physical weapons to attack, like Asgore and Asriel, or Photoshop Flowey using physical vines to attack the SOUL (yeah I know that Flowey is not a monster but he’s accepted as having Magic and SOUL NPI on his profile with evidence of so).
- Undyne uses Lifting Strength as one of the main points of her power, examples being her suplexing a huge boulder, carrying a 2 tons heavy boulder, or lifting all the other major characters at once.
- Asgore being fast enough to basically dodge effortlessly the attacks of a child Undyne.
- This also applies to DETERMINATION, as shown by:
- Quite literally anything on Frisk’s profile. The main point is that Frisk can literally fight essentially anyone in the verse in an equal manner, from a fodder Loox to a guy with literally infinite statistics right because of the amount of Determination they're feeling per each fight, as Determination is the supernatural will to get living and persist against death, and Asriel himself even says that is thanks to their DT that Frisk was able to get this far in their adventure.
- Undyne transforming in her Undyne form after being cut in half from Chara, and thus getting her stats jumped from 50 ATK/20 DEF to a whooping 99 ATK/99 DEF right thanks to DETERMINATION.
- Thanks to the power of 6 SOULs, Flowey could overpower Frisk’s DETERMINATION with his own, as he could get back the control of the timeline which is given only to the being with the highest DETERMINATION, allowing him to blitz and one-shot Frisk effortlessly, overpower and restrain a lot of monsters with no issues, as well as giving him complete control of the game world with a lot of new abilities as well.
- Frisk and Asriel’s DETERMINATION increasing also powers up their powers to RESET, as each other’s DT was equal, thus none of themcould control the timeline, which stopped Asriel from using the TRUE RESET.
(Yeah Sans is still one of the fastest guys despite his 1 ATK/DEF stats, but he’s literally made to cheat around the rules of the game, so him being a canon outlier in this fits his character).
TLDR:
- The contents of the 10th anniversary livestream are canon and should be used.
- Only very few characters will scale to Flowey's feat, rest will be downgraded from High 8-C+ (7.28 Tons) to only High 8-C (2.42 Tons).
- SOUL Power is a UES that scales to AP, Dura, LS, Speed and Hax potency.
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? (besides the fact he is able to randomly summon that car i forgot the name in english) and the fact he can make his bones non lethal and tangible?
