Let's Re-Do This: Tier 3 Taizai?

[Majinere566]

Introduction

I’ll keep this brief — in Chapter 209 of The Four Knights of the Apocalypse, we’re introduced to the Lady of the Lake, who abducts Lancelot and Jericho as they wander through a strange realm for days on end.


Proposal

The purpose for this thread is address certain statements andimplications made during this mini flashback arc. It is stated that The Lake is created by Chaos and it holds infinite magic, which is stated several times in the chapter and even all the way back in Nanatsu No Taizai where it is introduced as a "Magic lake that stores Limitless Magic" It is magic so dense it is made visible and tangible even dead bodies can float in it acting like an actual lake. This whole infinite topic is also supported by the fact that according to the raw's translated by @Makai641001 (a former translator helper)The space they are in "expands/spreads infinitely". Oh and also has it's own flow of time, which supports the fact that it's a seperate dimension(also implied in this scan)

According to the Criteria for High Universal quoted below,

Characters or objects that demonstrate an infinite amount of energy on a 3-D scale, such as creating or destroying infinite mass or affecting an infinite 3-D space. This extends to an infinite number of finite or infinite-sized 3-D universes or pocket dimensions when not accounting for any higher dimensions or time. Large numbers of infinite 3-D universes, unless causally closed from one another by a separate spacetime or existence, only count for a higher level of this tier. Being "infinitely" stronger than this level, unless uncountably so, does not qualify for any higher tier.​

This should in my opinion qualify Chaos for this tier as he has created an infinite magic lake, that has mass and a space that is expanding infinitely. I haven't brought up Lancelot's feats yet because I think it should be hashed out in a seperate thread

 

[Demon_Lord18]

Looks good

 

[Damage3245]

Just speaking exclusively about the full power of Chaos itself, the proposal looks fine to me for now.

 

[Nierre]

Not knowledgeable on NNT but this looks very blatant so I agree with the OP

 

[Godernet]

With how straightforward the infinite energy/power/magic statements are, I'm fine with High 3-A for Chaos.

 

[Majinere566]

That’s 3 staff approval, when can this be applied?

 

[Celest_Void]

That’s 3 staff approval, when can this be applied?

I think it will be in 48 hours, since it's a level change.

 

[Saqphire]

Agree obviously, but shouldn't the temporal dimension make the feat Low 2-C?

 

[Majinere566]

Agree obviously, but shouldn't the temporal dimension make the feat Low 2-C?

That I am not too well versed in.

 

[Faa_Tzy]

Arthur should also be scaled with full Chaos power, but with a certain rating, such as possibly?

 

[Random-Helper323]

If it has its own space-time then it should be Low 2-C.

Still, does the verse have a universal energy system? Is the creation done using the same power source as attacks?

 

[Majinere566]

If it has its own space-time then it should be Low 2-C.

Still, does the verse have a universal energy system? Is the creation done using the same power source as attacks?

I didn’t know you needed ues for tiers such as H3A and above. I went with what the criteria was on the tier system page. But I think we do have ues currently accepted for the verse tho

 

[Random-Helper323]

I didn’t know you needed ues for tiers such as H3A and above. I went with what the criteria was on the tier system page. But I think we do have ues currently accepted for the verse tho

I'm not certain on it, but I'm pretty sure there needs to be a shared energy source or something to that effect. Some sign that the same energy used to create something can also be applied to attacks.

 

[GodSinBad2280]

Agreed

 

[Bossbrosish]

So who's scaling to this?

I didn’t know you needed ues for tiers such as H3A and above. I went with what the criteria was on the tier system page. But I think we do have ues currently accepted for the verse tho

I'm not certain on it, but I'm pretty sure there needs to be a shared energy source or something to that effect. Some sign that the same energy used to create something can also be applied to attacks.

I actually asked this question before and was told there was a UES system for NNT. Was told it was accepted here.

 

[Damage3245]

At the moment I don't think anyone should be directly scaling to this. This amount of power far surpasses even the Demon King's peak power as he could use the lake to replenish his magic without diminishing it significantly. We should wait for more showings of Lancelot in combat.

 

[Majinere566]

I think a possibly rating for Arthur should be good imo since he has the power of chaos

And the lake itself

 

[GodSinBad2280]

At the moment I don't think anyone should be directly scaling to this. This amount of power far surpasses even the Demon King's peak power as he could use the lake to replenish his magic without diminishing it significantly. We should wait for more showings of Lancelot in combat.

I think King Arthur should be able to scale, since he’s the one who inherited all the power of Chaos, and he sees Lancelot and the Seven Deadly Sins as threats to himself.

 

[Damage3245]

There's a slight contradiction there; the Seven Deadly Sins don't have infinite magic power.

I can see King Arthur possibly scaling to it, but I don't think we've seen his full power in action yet. Scaling for anyone else is too dubious for now.

 

[Majinere566]

I mean Merlin does…

But even still going through numerous profiles I’ve seen people like Goku scale to H3A based of scaling to another characters

 

[GodSinBad2280]

There's a slight contradiction there; the Seven Deadly Sins don't have infinite magic power.

I can see King Arthur possibly scaling to it, but I don't think we've seen his full power in action yet. Scaling for anyone else is too dubious for now.

That’s true… but it’s also clear that Arthur was highly wary of the Seven Deadly Sins during his attack on Liones, and he even compared Lancelot, who managed to injure him, to being just as strong as the Sins.

 

[Damage3245]

I mean Merlin does…

But even still going through numerous profiles I’ve seen people like Goku scale to H3A based of scaling to another characters

Merlin can have unending magic power but that's not the same as infinite magic power. Picture having a mana bar that never depletes to a mana bar that is infinitely long.

 

[karo_senpaii]

Authur should either have a likely rating or "up to"

 

[karo_senpaii]

Agree obviously, but shouldn't the temporal dimension make the feat Low 2-C?

Does it work like that? It's a dimension containing infinite magic but it doesn't mean the space is large enough to be a universe

 

[GodSinBad2280]

Authur should either have a likely rating or "up to"

Why?

 

[Saqphire]

Does it work like that? It's a dimension containing infinite magic but it doesn't mean the space is large enough to be a universe

The magic, being so dense that it's like liquid, takes up space/volume and the magic is infinite in quantity. Combine that with the statements that the space itself is endless and it's pretty obvious it's infinite in size. The temporal dimension would just make it a space-time continuum

 

[karo_senpaii]

Why?

He would be giving a hypothetical of being able to output prime chaos full power

 

[Faa_Tzy]

I think a possibly rating for Arthur should be good imo since he has the power of chaos

And the lake itself

Yep, it should be labeled "at full power" because Arthur can definitely do it, even though it's never been shown.

If don't want to take any risks, "unknown" is a good option, though I suggest that Arthur at full Chaos power can reach H3A.

 

[karo_senpaii]

The magic, being so dense that it's like liquid, takes up space/volume and the magic is infinite in quantity. Combine that with the statements that the space itself is endless and it's pretty obvious it's infinite in size. The temporal dimension would just make it a space-time continuum

The character just said it goes on forever after swimming a while. That's too loose to say the magic is literally flowing till infinity.

 

[Saqphire]

The character just said it goes on forever after swimming a while. That's too loose to say the magic is literally flowing till infinity.

The "endless space" statements alone aren't enough, but they are used in conjunction with the statements that infinite liquid magic exists in said space to make the conclusive argument that both are infinite

 

[karo_senpaii]

The "endless space" statements alone aren't enough, but they are used in conjunction with the statements that infinite liquid magic exists in said space to make the conclusive argument that both are infinite

It's not infinite liquid magic. It's liquid magic holding infinite power.

Wait are you saying Lancelot absorbed liquid that literally goes on to infinity?

 

[Saqphire]

It's not infinite liquid magic. It's liquid magic holding infinite power.

Wait are you saying Lancelot absorbed liquid that literally goes on to infinity?

It's both, and the Lady equates both; hencewhy she is saying that the magic force, which is infinite, is also the water itself, meaning the magic force is so great that it takes up density and volume and it stretches out for infinity. Meliodas also directly says the magic itself is limitless, that's why it could absorb the DK-killing attack

And, well yes. This isn't a far-fetched claim to say since people in Lancelot's tier (Chaos Tier), are meant to do these infinite-level feats anyway

 

[Majinere566]

The raw says for the statement “goes on forever” is “expands/spreads infinitely” which I think would be the literal definition according to Makai, I have put in a request in the translation thread so I can get more opinions on it

 

[karo_senpaii]

It's both, and the Lady equates both; hencewhy she is saying that the magic force, which is infinite, is also the water itself, meaning the magic force is so great that it takes up density and volume and it stretches out for infinity. Meliodas also directly says the magic itself is limitless, that's why it could absorb the DK-killing attack

And, well yes. This isn't a far-fetched claim to say since people in Lancelot's tier (Chaos Tier), are meant to do these infinite-level feats anyway

you're claiming the magic takes up density and volume to an infinite extent which means when Lancelot absorbed it he should occupy an infinite volume of space

 

[Saqphire]

you're claiming the magic takes up density and volume to an infinite extent which means when Lancelot absorbed it he should occupy an infinite volume of space

Lance doesn't occupy an ocean's worth of space post-absorption either yet we know the liquid magic and it's volume/density are real and physical, the most probable conclusion from this is that when he absorbs it, it automatically disappears, permeating into his body so this counter-arg doesn't work regardless if it was finite or infinite volume

 

[karo_senpaii]

Lance doesn't occupy an ocean's worth of space post-absorption either yet we know the liquid magic and it's volume/density are real and physical, the most probable conclusion from this is that when he absorbs it, it automatically disappears, permeating into his body so this counter-arg doesn't work regardless if it was finite or infinite volume

It doesn't work like that, lance can actually absorb an ocean worth sized energy and there won't be any issue . You don't get to pick and choose. You have to be consistent. "Automatically disappears" is just headcanon.

There's no statement that says the condensed magic is so large it extends to infinity. You only got "it holds infinite power" which is fine..you can hold infinite power and be finite in size, which is exactly what it is. Your claim is not supported at all , just because something having infinite power is potent enough to occupy space and be dense doesn't mean it translates to it going on to infinity

 

[MeliodasDeUzyy]

y’all should accept Low 2-C duhh

 

[Cursed_Copycat]

It doesn't work like that, lance can actually absorb an ocean worth sized energy and there won't be any issue . You don't get to pick and choose. You have to be consistent. "Automatically disappears" is just headcanon.

There's no statement that says the condensed magic is so large it extends to infinity. You only got "it holds infinite power" which is fine..you can hold infinite power and be finite in size, which is exactly what it is. Your claim is not supported at all , just because something having infinite power is potent enough to occupy space and be dense doesn't mean it translates to it going on to infinity

By “Automatically disappears” they’re referring to the magic becoming one with Lancelot’s body.

Yes, the “statement that it extends to infinity” is what Majinere was referring to before, the literal translation from the raws.

You’re arguing with a brick wall, the multiple statements of the space and reservoir of ‘water’ being infinite also imply the magic itself goes on forever. There is context there that’s being ignored in your counter argument. It’s not necessary for something with infinite magic to take up infinite space, of course- but that’s what’s being presented to us.

Plus it wouldn’t even matter for ap scaling as it would still give Lance H3A potential, and Chaos itself would still be L2C for creating a spacetime. Your skepticism doesn’t downscale them at all even if you were correct.

 

[karo_senpaii]

By “Automatically disappears” they’re referring to the magic becoming one with Lancelot’s body.

Yes, the “statement that it extends to infinity” is what Majinere was referring to before, the literal translation from the raws.

You’re arguing with a brick wall, the multiple statements of the space and reservoir of ‘water’ being infinite also imply the magic itself goes on forever. There is context there that’s being ignored in your counter argument. It’s not necessary for something with infinite magic to take up infinite space, of course- but that’s what’s being presented to us.

Plus it wouldn’t even matter for ap scaling as it would still give Lance H3A potential, and Chaos itself would still be L2C for creating a spacetime. Your skepticism doesn’t downscale them at all even if you were correct.

If there are some additional statements I don't know about please enlighten me and drop the scans. All the scans I see in the op all day "infinite magic force" , "stores infinite magic" . Those refer to potency of the magic there and not the size of the river itself. And yeah it does matter, if the magic doesn't literally extend to infinity then the dimension doesn't have a size quantifiable enough to be low2c

 

[Igneel]

I never thought there would be the day we see high 3A chaos or any 7ds sins character.