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Tasha vs Kaneki
- Thread starter Arkenis
- Start date
Arkenis
They/Them- 25,360
- 13,108
- Thread starter
- #42
He's got a chance at winning if he can keep the fight close. It's just that once Tasha realizes Kaneki's Kakuja is far stronger, he'll opt to hanging back and keeping his distance. Kaneki's not completely inexperienced in combat, he can understand to use the area to his advantage and try surprise attacks. I just don't see winning due to the regen negation and Desert Eagle. Other stuff that I think makes Tasha more likely to win is having Halloween as a second attacker, he doesn't need to reload his gun so he won't have times where he's caught off guard, explosion rounds to switch up his danmaku, and has instinctive action for evading life threatening attacks.
It's also just how Kaneki fights that makes it less likely, he generally holds back on humans, doesn't instantly whip out his Kakuja just because and simply engages close in combat making him more susceptible to getting overwhelmed.
So while Tasha has several things that hurt Kaneki, they both really just have two win cons, beating the other with ap or wearing the other down with attacks.
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But based on your arguments, he won't be able to get close to Tasha during this time because he'll be bombarded with bullets that will kill him instantly. In that case, it would be worth changing the distance between them to 10 meters or something like that.
It sounds like stomp
Does every 7-C attack carry a regen neg or is it only for the Desert Eagle?
Arkenis
They/Them- 25,360
- 13,108
- Thread starter
- #44
The bullets won't kill him instantly.
Maybe? But the way stomps work this is both sides that have viable win cons, one just has abilities that make them win easier.
Every attack and the more that do hit will increase the pain. This should make Kaneki realize he has to dodge and not block completely.
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I think to equalize the chances we need to reduce the initial distance to 10-20 meters.
It doesn't matter if the other side doesn't have time to play their trump cards before they are killed.
Kaneki has a high pain tolerance. But the question is different. Will every Tasha attack be dura neg? Is every 7-C bullet invisible and kills with mana?
Arkenis
They/Them- 25,360
- 13,108
- Thread starter
- #46
Both these characters can run a 100 meters in seconds in their sleep. It's really not something that needs to change.
That also ties into fair matches.
Common Examples of a Decisive/Non-Stomp Match
- Both characters have several methods of winning. However, one character can reliably use/activate their winning move(s) first.
- One character has more ways to win than the other, but the other character wins more times than not due to matchup specifics that allow/cause them to use their winning move(s) immediately.
- Both characters are otherwise evenly matched in terms of statistics and abilities, but one has regeneration that the other can possibly, but not easily, surmount.
- One character having a level of regeneration that prevents them from being killed, but the other has an ability that would allow them to win despite the former's level of regeneration, such as mind manipulation, soul manipulation, etc...
From what my knowledge of both, Tasha can easily get his head knocked off by the kakuja, he just has more ways around that
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But their speeds are equalized, and with their perception, they move at normal speed. It would take 10 seconds just in a straight line, and considering Kaneki has to move away from the line of fire, he'll move in an arc and zigzag. That would take a long time.
Someone recently did a match where two MHS+ were 1,000 kilometers apart, but with their perception, it would take forever to get closer.
Okay, I'm fine with this
I'm a little confused because we're speaking different languages. Answer the following questions:
1)Is every 7-C attack homing?
2)Does every 7-C attack negate regeneration?
3)Are 7-A bullets homing? Do they always hit the head or what? If a bullet hits Kaneki's shoulder, wouldn't it be fatal?
4)Is every one of his attacks invisible?
Wait, are you using Kaneki's High 7-C? If so, that will allow him to ignore 7-C attacks until Tasha uses Deagle.
Arkenis
They/Them- 25,360
- 13,108
- Thread starter
- #48
No they move at the speed of the lower speed at equal speed, that's transonic so they can definitely cover it.
Only in the battle field.
Forcefield Creation & Homing Attack (Able to create a battle field cutting off the outside with dimensional gallery pouch. Within the field his bullets track his enemies sound, temperature, magical powers and killing intent)
Every bullet.
No just Desert Eagle. Yeah the head or torso, you can see here. If Kaneki stands still yeah, he's moving he'll be harder to hit.
Yeah. Still doesn't ignore the magical damage.
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Will he be able to activate the battlefield in 3 seconds?
How big is this radius? Is there a time limit?
Well, Kaneki can survive at least 1 headshot
To do this, he must break through the defense.
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It's magic dura neg?
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So, based on your arguments, I see the following:
As soon as the fight begins, Tasha activates the battlefield, unbeknownst to Kaneki. A multitude of invisible projectiles immediately begin flying at him, aimed at his head and heart. Even his High 7-C durability can't protect him from these 7-C bullets, as they are imbued with magical properties. Kaneki is unable to heal from them.
If everything is correct, then this match is like tying up a muscleman and placing him at the end of a narrow corridor, with a scrawny teenager with a shotgun standing at the other end, who will definitely be out of reach. Yes, the muscleman could win if he gets to him, but that will never happen.
I get the feeling you yourself don't believe Kaneki's wincons will be realized, because as soon as he enters the kill zone.
As soon as the fight begins, Tasha activates the battlefield, unbeknownst to Kaneki. A multitude of invisible projectiles immediately begin flying at him, aimed at his head and heart. Even his High 7-C durability can't protect him from these 7-C bullets, as they are imbued with magical properties. Kaneki is unable to heal from them.
If everything is correct, then this match is like tying up a muscleman and placing him at the end of a narrow corridor, with a scrawny teenager with a shotgun standing at the other end, who will definitely be out of reach. Yes, the muscleman could win if he gets to him, but that will never happen.
I get the feeling you yourself don't believe Kaneki's wincons will be realized, because as soon as he enters the kill zone.
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At best, these will be scratches that will have no effect.
It will take Tasha a while to realize that all his attacks are ineffective. By that time, Kaneki will have closed the distance and struck
Arkenis
They/Them- 25,360
- 13,108
- Thread starter
- #58
The wound doesn't really matter, its the fact the mana is causing pain. You can see it as dura neg if you want since it does destroy the body from the inside. Won't take a while when the bullets aren't doing damage.
Nah, they both have win cons either way.
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Would he start off with it? If not what does he usually open up with.
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And they all neg regen right?
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Will probably wait for more arguments, Kaneki has no answer for the regen negation or Danmaku that would kill him on contact, the other dude is probably going to be a little hard to hit as well. I guess it depends on how fast Kaneki uses Kakuja on an opponent that has imperceivable attacks and will also be negging his regen.
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We have several scenarios:
1) Kaneki takes no damage (a x7 difference). He covers the distance in an instant, given that half the distance isn't covered by Tasha's zone. He's absolutely certain that Tasha won't reach the Deagle after the first missed shot. He'll likely fire for those three seconds, which is a relatively short period of time. Kaneki closes in and strikes.
2) Kaneki receives scratches and falls from pain and internal damage. Tasha believes his attacks are effective and continues using 7-C attacks. Kaneki enters a half-Kakuja state and delivers a blitz + one-shot.
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The match is a stomp in any case. Tasha's attacks are unavoidable, invisible, and from the Arkenis's position, they cannot be healed, and they destroy the body from the inside when injured.
I already gave a good analogy above:
The battlefield is a 15-meter-long narrow corridor, with the fighters standing at opposite ends. Kaneki is an athletic guy with brass knuckles and a blindfold. Tasha is a frail teenager with a shotgun in his hands and a magic blaster on his back.
It all comes down to either Kaneki's shotgun one-shotting him before he can even touch Tasha. Or, Tasha's attacks don't even scratch Kaneki; he manages to get close before Tasha draws her magic blaster and lands a one-shot.
It's a stomp in any case.
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Likely is, the attacks being invisible and him being able to use an ability to home down on Kaneki AND it negates his regen. And let's not forget the dude can do all of that and then get a 10k multiplier if Kaneki is pressing him
. Not sure how bro though this was an interesting matchup to make.
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So say Kaneki does dodge the invisible mana bullets being thrown at him, Tasha then just hawks him down and kills him with Danmaku bullets or the ability to that not even Post Dragon Kaneki would walk away from? Why would Kaneki's Kakuja come out before the Desert Eagle?
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Idk, bro. Tasha doesn't start with BF, and Kaneki will have already closed the distance considerably. Tasha will need at least a few hits to realize his attacks are useless and he'll reach for Desert Eagle. Fear hax could also help Kaneki, considering Tasha doesn't resist it. Kaneki simply lands a hit and wins.Likely is, the attacks being invisible and him being able to use an ability to home down on Kaneki AND it negates his regen. And let's not forget the dude can do all of that and then get a 10k multiplier if Kaneki is pressing him
In another scenario, Kaneki will be annihilated as soon as he steps into BF.
It's a stomp, either way.
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I thought he only has that in his RE keys
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Arkenis
They/Them- 25,360
- 13,108
- Thread starter
- #73
Likely is, the attacks being invisible and him being able to use an ability to home down on Kaneki AND it negates his regen. And let's not forget the dude can do all of that and then get a 10k multiplier if Kaneki is pressing him
Now I see how funny arguing a match is a stomp from the other side. And that analogy is irrelevant since that isn't where they're fighting as I've pointed out several times its in central park. You guys are genuinely just arguing anything to make it out to be a stomp.
They start out 100 meters, Kaneki and Tasha run towards each other, Tasha shooting and getting hits on Kaneki, while Kaneki tries blocking or pre dodging. Kaneki realizes he can't see whats hitting him and that it's causing him pain. He then decides to evade Tasha's view to avoid the attacks and goes for surprise attacks instead. Tasha won't throw down the Battlefield immediately, he'll still try to hunt Kaneki down as he hears him moving around central park, jumping around the trees, for the most part Tasha's got zero extra senses to detect Kaneki doing this and can indeed get attacked several times in this part of the fight. Kaneki realizes "whatever he's wearing, its strong, I'll switch to my Kakuja" and goes for more attacks. After this Tasha would then throw his battle field down to try and home in on Kaneki. Kaneki can very easily try to leave central park and just come back when the barrier goes down. I'll inform you guys, Central Park is 4km long and nearly 1km in width, Kaneki can easily avoid the Battlefield (max size is likely just 100m) in seconds and now Tasha's wasted mana sustaining it. Again, since Tasha has no extra senses, he simply has no clue where Kaneki is and can be caught off guard by Kaneki again. Tasha can then bring out Halloween to help protect from his blind spots if he wants before ever bringing out the Desert Eagle because as I've said pulling the desert eagle out isn't a good thing for Tasha, it causes damage to him every shot and can only be shot three times before his arm is destroyed and he's in too much pain.
He brought out the desert eagle when his allies were weak and couldn't fight, and he was on his last legs of mana after fighting since the night before, and used it on one of the strongest witches in the series. Using it so quickly on Kaneki won't be a factor when he has other tactics he can try utilizing, just read the page and what I've already said.
I'll still wait for the inevitable Kaneki fra or continued stomp arguments.
Kaneki win cons: Greater ap physically, can easily land a clean hit on the head long into the fight, greater LS can throw Tasha around and crush body parts till he's dead.
Tasha win cons: Can wear Kaneki down till he's succumbed to the pain from the mana bullets, Desert Eagle can one shot.
Reasons both cons are hard: Kaneki getting a hit on Tasha's head is gonna be hard given Tasha can shoot from afar, 20+ meters maybe? Tasha can evade LS through dodging, the jacket should also protect him from the total force, can still easily grab Tasha's legs though. Wearing down Kaneki will be harder as he starts moving around more and more and becomes faster, Desert Eagle requires Tasha be in close range due to the recoil and can only be shot three times before Kaneki auto wins.
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No, I simply have no knowledge on Tasha so what he does in character or starts out with is something I don’t know. I simply looked at the profiles of these 2 characters and realized one countered the other. Clearly you have enough knowledge on both verses to give us a rundown.
Why make a matchup if you think it’s inevitable for the other character to be voted for? Based off the limited knowledge I have on Tasha, i said that it would likely be a stomp. Now that you have a decent analysis to how the battle would go, I can come to a stronger conclusion.
Imma pull outta this thread, I don’t care to interact with a dude who immediately thinks people are arguing in bad faith if a fight is a stomp
Arkenis
They/Them- 25,360
- 13,108
- Thread starter
- #75
I am more so referring to Nik as he blatantly mischaracterized the match's parameters.
It's 100m and set in Central Park, not a narrow corridor.
I hoped for more logical argumentation and a general inclination for people to asks questions so they can form better arguments, which you've both done to an extent. That doesn't now mean I don't think one will still be more favored and it doesn't hurt to try and see how people will argue.
You probably did not see it, we already went over how it wasn't a stomp and Nik agreed. And even with what you said, that would not constitute a stomp. One character bringing out their win con before the other is the first thing said for non-stomp matches.Imma pull outta this thread, I don’t care to interact with a dude who immediately thinks people are arguing in bad faith if a fight is a stomp
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My dude agreed with the analogy, so it looks like it really does look like I described.
It doesn't matter when Tasha spams invisible homing attacks that follow Kaneki throughout the control zone.
This is a normal position.
After that, I learned a few more nuances and again came to the conclusion that it was stomping.
How will he dodge if the bullets are invisible and silent? As far as I understand, it's a mana shot.
Kaneki knows nothing about the Battlefield's radius, nor that it has a limited time, nor that it drains Tasha.
If Kaneki had prior knowledge, this would make sense. But right now, it sounds like an unfounded fantasy, because Kaneki has never encountered anything like this before. He doesn't see the battlefield, doesn't know how it works. He simply understands that while he could previously move out of the way of the projectiles, now the projectiles will inevitably follow him. No one in their right mind would try to hide on the other side of the map in such a situation, because Kaneki would feel the bullets reaching him even from cover. He would simply close the distance.
Based on what you wrote, he doesn't even need DE for an easy victory.
Please decide. Does he use it extremely rarely or as soon as he sees his shots aren't producing results? Is it really true that after five seconds of shelling, where the enemy is constantly using acrobatics and trajectory, he'll say, "Oh, screw it, I'll get the Deagle?" Maybe I'm wrong, but he needs to score a few good hits to realize that 7-C attacks aren't cutting it.
KANEKI FRA
You already said that Tasha will immediately use Battlefield as soon as she sees Kaneki approaching and is very fast. If 7-C attacks damage Kaneki, then as soon as he enters the range, he will be mercilessly destroyed by Danmaku. If 7-C attacks don't deal damage due to the x7 difference, then Kaneki will deal Headshot.
Based on your arguments, DE is simply useless here. If Kaneki's 7-C attacks still damage him, he has no chance. Even with the increased speed, these are invisible, homing Danmaku with regen negation (though I still doubt mana will block the regeneration).
It's a double-edged sword. Either the first fighter or the second one stomps.
Of course, given the fact that 7-C attacks won't damage Kaneki, Tasha has a theoretical chance, but it's so slim that it looks like a stomp.
Arkenis
They/Them- 25,360
- 13,108
- Thread starter
- #77
By moving around. I've explained this already. Tasha has to aim, it's not rocket science for Kaneki to decide "move in a random way to throw him off".
I disagree but if you think Kaneki is stupid enough to keep running towards him then that's fine, doesn't make this a stomp.
I've been explained how it works. Never said he'll quickly use it. I've offered up other tactics before desert eagle. Again if DE came out fast that doesn't make it a stomp.
I said this in the context of the start of the fight? Or longer in the fight?
Useless? Nah. Just harder to land an easy shot is all. And you still doubt mana blocks regeneration because you haven't looked at the scan I sent for it. I will translate the scan for you.
Таша: Почему она не перестаёт кровоточить?
https://i.imgur.com/j5EHQMY_d.webp?maxwidth=760&fidelity=grand
Девушка: Оно слишком слабо. Моя мана и мана Заклятия Бога вместе… Мы не можем извлечь ману, которая окружает раны Хэллоуин.
I've showed you how stomps work on the wiki. You can disagree but the match simply isn't a stomp.
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It makes sense
It's not that he's stupid. Kaneki understands that invisible attacks are hitting him wherever he goes, no matter where he hides. He might as well think of a Voodoo doll as he does of homing attacks. There's no guarantee that if he runs 100 meters, the attacks will stop. It's far more rational to deal with the problem as quickly as possible
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Titus, I can't decide which sides I will vote, both sides are viable even with the "stomp" is haunting this match
