Minimum Requirement for making a Verse page

[AmonInChains]

Permission to post given by @Emirp sumitpo

last few years our community has raised the standards to prefer quality profiles over quantity. And after looking through quite a few Verse pages, I’ve noticed many that have almost nothing—no characters or calculations to speak of.

Below I’ll give examples of Verses that only have a single character

• 5D Chess with Multiverse Time Travel
• Bobobo-bo Bo-bobo
• Bunny Kill
• Daddy DJ
• The Croods

The Verses look completely empty; there’s nothing to put on them except a single character and like 1 or 2 calcs, which should be sufficient by itself to be found on the Wikia by iltself.

What should we do? My proposal is that, like the Verse Specific Abilities page, we should set a minimum. Specifically, just like that page, there should be a minimum of 5 characters (indexed on the Wikia, obviously) required to create a Verse page.

However… this could create a problem for Verses where, although there is only one/a few characters, there are several calculations for them, such as:

• Among Us
• Beastars
• Everyone Else Is A Returnee

What should we do in these cases? Well, in my opinion the feats can be listed as they currently are in some profiles and listing said values from the calculations, similar to the well-known Respect Threads.
However, I understand this isn't a widely used practice, and it’s harder with Verses that have non-linear continuities, so I’d like to propose a minimum with three possible options to create a Verse page.

• A Verse page may be created if it has a minimum of 5 characters indexed on the Wiki.
• A Verse page may be created if it has at least one character indexed on the Wiki and at least 3 accepted calculations.
• A Verse page may be created if it has at least one indexed character on the Wiki and at least one accepted Cosmology blog. (I’ve never encountered this case, but I don’t rule out that it could happen in the future).

Another case worth considering is newly launched serialized Verses; only these could be exempt so that Supporters don't have to wait months to add material. Therefore, Verses that its period is less than two years old could be created if and only if they have Supporters actively working on these new series.

Spoiler: TL;DR

In order to create a Verse page, at least one of the following standards must be followed:

• A Verse page may be created if it has a minimum of 5 characters indexed on the Wiki.
• A Verse page may be created if it has at least one character indexed on the Wiki and at least 3 accepted calculations.
• A Verse page may be created if it has at least one indexed character on the Wiki and at least one accepted Cosmology blog.

These standards do not apply to serialized Verses that are less than 2 years old and have Supporters currently working on the Verse, so they don't have to wait months to add their work.

AGREE WITH OP:
AGREE WITH THE MINIMUM BEING AT LEAST 2 CHARACTERS: @Damage3245, @Celestial_Pegasus, @KLOL506
AGREE WITH THE MINIMUM BEING AT LEAST 1 CHARACTER, BUT "properly formatted, well referenced profile and a similarly well made verse page with all relevant information linked" BEING REQUIRED TOO: @DarkDragonMedeus, @Godernet, @Planck69
DISAGREE: @Mr. Bambu

 

[Antvasima]

@AKM sama @DontTalkDT @Mr. Bambu @DarkDragonMedeus @Just_a_Random_Butler @Agnaa @Qawsedf234 @Celestial_Pegasus @Ultima_Reality @Elizhaa @Damage3245 @Starter_Pack @Abstractions @Colonel_Krukov @SamanPatou @GyroNutz @Firestorm808 @Everything12 @Maverick_Zero_X @Crabwhale @GrathOfLux @Dereck03 @Planck69 @LephyrTheRevanchist

What do you think about this?

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

I don't think there's anything wrong with 1 character if the 1 character happens to have a lot of things, but I agree if even the one character seems unfinished; lacking image links to certain feats ect, though there is nothing wrong about certain keys being based on scaling on the list of common feats examples. Calculations also aren't always needed for Tier 2 and Infinite/Immeasurable speed and lifting strength examples, though Tier 2/1 often have cosmology blogs being very helpful yes.

 

[Damage3245]

I think a minimum of two characters or profiles makes more sense to me than five.

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

At least 2 profiles seems fine.

 

[AmonInChains]

I don't think there's anything wrong with 1 character if the 1 character happens to have a lot of things, but I agree if even the one character seems unfinished; lacking image links to certain feats ect, though there is nothing wrong about certain keys being based on scaling on the list of common feats examples. Calculations also aren't always needed for Tier 2 and Infinite/Immeasurable speed and lifting strength examples, though Tier 2/1 often have cosmology blogs being very helpful yes.

Personally, I think they end up being unnecessary. I think a profile alone could index everything except, of course, cosmology topics or multiple calculations. I think that was one of the reasons we decided to have Verse Specific Abilities pages with only a minimal number of characters, otherwise they end up being empty pages, as I mentioned before.

Should I put you as some kind of vote?

I think a minimum of two characters or profiles makes more sense to me than five.

At least 2 profiles seems fine.

Counted.

 

[Apex_Predator_GX]

Hello, I received permission from DarkDragonMedeus to participate here for transparency's sake.

5 characters to be able to make a verse page seems too much; the same for asking for cosmology and calculations. I think that even a verse with one single character works as long as it is well made with scans and references and should stay in the wiki... This is more a matter of having well-made profiles rather than a problem with the verse pages. Having standalone characters without verse pages seems unproductive to me, as people could search for those franchises more easily. For example, I notice we have several pages for Zero Escape characters, but no Zero Escape verse page.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

I agree with Apex, I think stand alone character or vehicle pages with no verse page are potentially more problematic then the idea of "Verse page looks almost empty save for one character." Also, it's not like verse pages are limited to listing characters, but also weapon pages, vehicle pages, civilization pages, and location pages. If there's going to be a minimum number, it should be less about number of linked characters and more about linked pages and/or blog posts in general.

 

[AmonInChains]

5 characters to be able to make a verse page seems too much

Well, the Damage's suggestion doesn't seem bad either.

I think that even a verse with one single character works as long as it is well made with scans and references and should stay in the wiki...

Why should you keep it if its own profile is already sufficient to index all content? Of course, I'm referring to those profiles with no more than three calculations, as I stated in the OP. Not only that, but the examples that I put on some verses show how those without it end up being totally vague.

Having standalone characters without verse pages seems unproductive to me, as people could search for those franchises more easily.

I don't think this is a real problem, since you can easily search the Wikia if you are looking for a character giving it to you as a first option, even Google will directly redirect you to it.
Is there any character that could fall into this case you mention, where it would be easier to find him through the Verse than by himself?

 

[AmonInChains]

Also, it's not like verse pages are limited to listing characters, but also weapon pages, vehicle pages, civilization pages, and location pages. If there's going to be a minimum number, it should be less about number of linked characters and more about linked pages and/or blog posts in general.

That seems fair.

 

[Oiguana2701]

Permission given by DarkDragonMedeus.

Verse pages aren't made specifically to show how many pages a verse has. In many cases, they were created for a few reasons:

1. To tell the reader about what the verse and characters are about,
2. To help users find characters more easily, as, in many cases, the specific name the user is searching for may not be easily findable (such as when a character has a very common name),
3. To help people better understand what calculations were used to grant a tier.

All of those can be easily fulfilled by a verse with two or maybe even one single page. I also think five pages minimum is very excessive, as very few of the verses I usually see actually have five page-worthy characters. Personally, I am not greatly opposed to two or three pages, though I would prefer if the minimum was one single page.

 

[KLOL506]

Minimum of two characters is aite

 

[AmonInChains]

To tell the reader about what the verse and characters are about,

This could be explained easily in the summary. Isn't needed a whole Verse page for explain it.

To help users find characters more easily, as, in many cases, the specific name the user is searching for may not be easily findable (such as when a character has a very common name),

The calcs can be indexed in the same profile as we usually do, unless as I mentioned in the OP, they are more than the amount they can handle.

To help people better understand what calculations were used to grant a tier.

That may be the same justification in the profile, as we usually do.

 

[AmonInChains]

Minimum of two characters is aite

Counted

 

[Godernet]

I agree with Apex and DDM,

As long as it's well formatted and informative on the verse and where it scales, provides links to any statements or calcs that are important to understanding the verse's scaling, and there is at least one profile, it serves as a perfectly serviceable verse page imo.

 

[Planck69]

Yeah, a properly formatted, well referenced profile and a similarly well made verse page with all relevant information linked is fine as a bare minimum. I agree with DDM to that end.

 

[AmonInChains]

ogey, I added y'all as a third option.

 

[Apex_Predator_GX]

Well, the Damage's suggestion doesn't seem bad either.


Why should you keep it if its own profile is already sufficient to index all content? Of course, I'm referring to those profiles with no more than three calculations, as I stated in the OP. Not only that, but the examples that I put on some verses show how those without it end up being totally vague.


I don't think this is a real problem, since you can easily search the Wikia if you are looking for a character giving it to you as a first option, even Google will directly redirect you to it.
Is there any character that could fall into this case you mention, where it would be easier to find him through the Verse than by himself?

I received permission from Godernet to participate here again for transparency's sake.

Building on what Oiguana brought up, what actual purpose would these minimum requirements serve? The only thing I could see is a restriction on the wiki's creativity and a limit on pages for no real reason. There is no actual benefit to this, aside from the deletion of a few verses for the sake of it.

At the very least, shouldn't these standards be only applied proactively then? Seems like it's just a way to stomp on people's work at the end of the day.

 

[AmonInChains]

I received permission from Godernet to participate here again for transparency's sake.

Building on what Oiguana brought up, what actual purpose would these minimum requirements serve? The only thing I could see is a restriction on the wiki's creativity and a limit on pages for no real reason. There is no actual benefit to this, aside from the deletion of a few verses for the sake of it.

At the very least, shouldn't these standards be only applied proactively then? Seems like it's just a way to stomp on people's work at the end of the day.

Excuse me, but in which way are creativity or the pages being limited?

As I mentioned at the start, the Wiki has improved the quality of profiles over time. We are not restricting users in what content they create or how they should create it, but if they do create content they must meet a minimum standard.

I mean, this is explicitly stated in the editing rules that we must have high-quality.

However, there is a tremendous amount of work involved in maintaining the accuracy of statistics and upholding a high quality for the profiles. In order to ensure that all edits made are of high quality, there are certain rules to abide by when editing. These rules must be followed in addition to the site rules.

However, profiles that were deleted shortly after creation due to poor quality or obvious vandalism are exempt from this requirement.

Finally I would just like to say, quality profiles > quantity of profiles.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

I don't want any minimum requirements. I think a verse with a single page is fine.

 

[AmonInChains]

Okay, I'll add this as a disagreement.

 

[Apex_Predator_GX]

Excuse me, but in which way are creativity or the pages being limited?

As I mentioned at the start, the Wiki has improved the quality of profiles over time. We are not restricting users in what content they create or how they should create it, but if they do create content they must meet a minimum standard.

I mean, this is explicitly stated in the editing rules that we must have high-quality.

Finally I would just like to say, quality profiles > quantity of profiles.

I got permission from Godernet to participate here again.

The standards would restrict users' ability to create verse pages for smaller verses; it's fairly clear how that limits users' ability to create pages and display their creativity, for again, no upside.

You're not requesting for them to be deleted due to quality issues, though. You're requesting for them to be deleted, ironically enough, for having a low quantity of pages connected to them.

 

[AmonInChains]

You're not requesting for them to be deleted due to quality issues, though. You're requesting for them to be deleted, ironically enough, for having a low quantity of pages connected to them.

apparently I was confused in your previous answer, I thought you were referring to DDM/Planck's suggestion on this one, mb chat

Under my OP premise, an opinion I still maintain, yes: Verses with more <five characters (which I also think could be improved, as DDM suggested, by counting total pages per verse rather than a minimum number of characters) should be removed, since everything can be indexed into small pages if they're unnecessary. It's the same approach we applied to specific Verse abilities, and so far it has worked pretty well to avoid unnecessary pages about how these Verses have been, and, as I mentioned in the examples, really poor pages on our Wiki.

That said, I'm not at all opposed to DDM's option of keeping in improving the limitations on quality Verses instead of limiting the minimum.

I'll wait for more opinions from the Staff since there is not much argumentation required, I think.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Apex is laying out more good points.

 

[Dereck03]

Pretty much my opinion is the same as Bambu, though I don't mind accepting the minimum of 1 character, as for now I just disagree with this.

 

[ActuallySpaceMan42]

It takes time to create profiles, and for most people, this is just a hobby at the end of the day. Some verses may end up with only one character profile for a while, or might only have a single character that’s really worth indexing. From what I can tell, the verses you’ve mentioned seem to be more a case of the pages being lazy, outdated, or simply falling short of modern standards, rather than the issue being that only one profile is available.

All things that can really just be fixed with tighter quality control and verse deletion.

 

[Vietthai96]

1 Character profile requirement is enough to me

 

[Colonel_Krukov]

I agree that one profile should be the bare minimum as well.

 

[Antvasima]

I got permission from Godernet to participate here again.

The standards would restrict users' ability to create verse pages for smaller verses; it's fairly clear how that limits users' ability to create pages and display their creativity, for again, no upside.

You're not requesting for them to be deleted due to quality issues, though. You're requesting for them to be deleted, ironically enough, for having a low quantity of pages connected to them.

I personally agree with this.

 

[LephyrTheRevanchist]

I don't want any minimum requirements. I think a verse with a single page is fine.

Same

 

[Elizhaa]

Similarity to Bambu, I do not think the requirement is needed; if the page is acceptable to our rules, I see no real use of making stricter rules.

 

[IdiosyncraticLawyer]

@Antvasima @DarkDragonMedeus @Damage3245 @Celestial_Pegasus @KLOL506 @Godernet @Planck69 @Mr. Bambu @Dereck03 @ActuallySpaceMan42 @Vietthai96 @Colonel_Krukov @LephyrTheRevanchist @Elizhaa What has been decided here?

 

[KLOL506]

Most seem to have gone back to just needing one verse profile

 

[IdiosyncraticLawyer]

Most seem to have gone back to just needing one verse profile

@Antvasima Can we consider that conclusion accepted and apply changes?

 

[Mr. Bambu]

This being a wiki policy thing, I think only admin votes are applicable here.

Krukov, Elizhaa, Dereck, and Lephyr voted since the OP updated; Krukov voted for one profile necessary, Elizhaa, Dereck, and Lephyr agreed with me (and thus disagreed with the OP outright).

Ant agreed with Apex earlier but didn't specify a vote, so I'm not listing him. Outside of that, admin votes lean towards rejecting the OP outright, at 0-2-3-4. Which is a more complicated vote scheme than I'd like, but. It is what it is.

 

[Random-Helper323]

Given how many verse pages only have a few profiles, and also how such a restriction only stops people adding verse pages with no real upside except reducing page numbers, it seems to me that no minimum is best since that allows a user to start with the verse page when adding a verse and prevents the verse being deleted if profiles have to be, but if a minimum must be imposed, one profile is enough, especially if more profiles might be added later. Verse pages are very valuable for organising calculations and other blogs too.

Bambu says only admin votes should count, and that might be safest, so I guess this is a ghost vote for no minimum, and hopefully my reasoning can help outline why.

 

[Vietthai96]

I don't think no minimum is a good thing, since our wiki pretty much a powerscaling wiki, the page, either being profile or verse page should outline powerscaling aspect of it, so a bare minimum of 1 profile is the best way to go. We can't just make a verse page without knowing its overall power and abilities, if we do that, rather visit said verse wiki. So at least with 1 profile we know the overall power of such verse and its character, or if the verse have no character profile, its should have some calculation blog accepted or cosmology page to outline its scale

 

[Mr. Bambu]

Given how many verse pages only have a few profiles, and also how such a restriction only stops people adding verse pages with no real upside except reducing page numbers, it seems to me that no minimum is best since that allows a user to start with the verse page when adding a verse and prevents the verse being deleted if profiles have to be, but if a minimum must be imposed, one profile is enough, especially if more profiles might be added later. Verse pages are very valuable for organising calculations and other blogs too.

Bambu says only admin votes should count, and that might be safest, so I guess this is a ghost vote for no minimum, and hopefully my reasoning can help outline why.

maybe semantic, but "should" isn't what I said; I said that I'm fairly sure they do only count, for this, as this falls under wiki policy

I don't no minimum is a good thing, since our wiki pretty much a powerscaling wiki, the page, either being profile or verse page should outline powerscaling aspect of it, so a bare minimum of 1 profile is the best way to go. We can't just make a verse page without knowing its overall power and abilities, if we do that, rather visit said verse wiki. So at least with 1 profile we know the overall power of such verse and its character, or if the verse have no character profile, its should have some calculation blog accepted or cosmology page to outline its scale

As it stands, the OP suggests the one-page votes are also pushing a "yes, but the profile also has to be good". I said in my original vote I was fine with just one profile, I don't care about quality of said profile. I believe it is already a rule that verses should have at least one profile, we were even deleting verses with zero back when we did the verse audit in like... 2020? ish?

 

[Random-Helper323]

maybe semantic, but "should" isn't what I said; I said that I'm fairly sure they do only count, for this, as this falls under wiki policy

Oh, okay. Should I shut up, or?

As it stands, the OP suggests the one-page votes are also pushing a "yes, but the profile also has to be good". I said in my original vote I was fine with just one profile, I don't care about quality of said profile. I believe it is already a rule that verses should have at least one profile, we were even deleting verses with zero back when we did the verse audit in like... 2020? ish?

If that's the case, the rule for one profile is already in place. I can see arguments for all three options. 1 means no empty verse page, none means more freedom to work, 2 means no verse page with just one profile. All three ideas have merit.

 

[Vietthai96]

As it stands, the OP suggests the one-page votes are also pushing a "yes, but the profile also has to be good". I said in my original vote I was fine with just one profile, I don't care about quality of said profile. I believe it is already a rule that verses should have at least one profile, we were even deleting verses with zero back when we did the verse audit in like... 2020? ish?

I mean, if the profile not being good, not up to the standard, it is going to get deleted so.....

I don't remember we have a concrete rule about deleting the verse page with 0 profile, like i joined the wiki back in 2017 iirc, and most of the time we just delete the verse page because "this verse have 0 profile so no point keeping it so delete it" or we delete the verse page along with its profile because "the verse is too outdated and all supporters left, no one maintains it so let delete it"

Probably i could have missed something, like one or two lines among our forest of rules, so someone please point it out

Oh, okay. Should I shut up, or?

Erased yourself