Content Revision: Clarifying Reality Warping to Resolve Structural Contradictions

[VYNxKryos]

Hello everyone,


I would like to address a structural issue in the current Reality Warping page that, in my view, creates inconsistencies in scaling and confuses readers.

Problem:

At present, Reality Warping is treated as a single ability encompassing a wide range of feats:


- Creation ex nihilo,
- Rearrangement/transmutation of matter,
- Alteration of physical laws,
- Conceptual or causal manipulation,
- Pure statements with no demonstrated feats.

The problem is that all of these are listed under the same header, even though their mechanisms, scope, and evidential requierements differ drastically. This vagueness leads to contradictions: two characters with radically different demonstrations of “reality warping” may be scaled identically, even if one only has statement-level authority while the other has multiversal feats.


LOGICAL ANALYSIS

To maintain internal consistency and facilitate scaling, we must distinguish between:

1. Scope / local vs universal vs multiversal.
2. Mechanism / transmutation, creation, law manipulation, conceptual alteration.
3. Evidence / feat-based vs statement-only.
4. Conditionality / in-universe limitations (rituals, artifacts, stamina).

Currently, none of these distinctions are explicitly enforced in the ability page, even though they are decisive in debates and profile building.

​

PROPOSED SOLUTION

Introduce a clear taxonomy of operational categories:


- RW-Absolute: unrestricted, feat-backed control at a universal/multiversal level.
- RW-Conditional: real but dependent on conditions (rituals, artifacts, environment).
- RW-Local: restricted to small-scale or localized alterations.
- RW-Abstract: affecting concepts, laws, or causality rather than matter.
- RW-Statement: statement-only with no demonstrated feats.

​

RULES OF ACCEPTANCE

- RW-Absolute requires at least one canonical feat demonstrating reality-level control.
- RW-Statement should never automatically be equated to RW-Absolute.
- Endurance or resource limits must be logged separately (Stamina/Resource) rather than altering the ability tier itself.
- If a feat involves physical creation (mass-energy equivalence), it should be calc’d accordingly or classified as hax if it involves law/conceptual alteration.

​

BENEFITS

- Prevents contradictory scaling (characters lumped together despite radically different evidence).
- Provides transparent categories for debates.
- Simplifies future revisions: contributors can tag abilities with RW-Conditional or RW-Statement instead of debating endlessly whether it qualifies as “true” reality warping.

​

OPEN QUESTION

Would the staff and community support a rework of the Reality Warping page to explicitly include this taxonomy and ruleset, in order to improve consistency and reduce contradictions in scaling?

Thank you for your attention. I can provide a draft rewrite of the ability page if needed.

 

[IvarUHQ]

structure the notion of Reality Warping, distinguish its forms, establish acceptance rules, avoid scaling inconsistencies, and facilitate future discussions; these are the points of this text and I believe it would be more than beneficial.

 

[DontTalkDT]

Reality Warping as an ability for the most part exists as an artifact from old times. It existed as a power long before we had standards for abilities, largely as a term clarification. These days its only purpose is to serve as a fallback ability. If something supernatural is weird enough that it somehow can't be classified as anything else, listing reality warping is an option.

Separating on scope is pointless now, because that's what we have other ability pages for. Altering causality is indicated by listing casuality manipulation. Creating from nothing? That's what the Creation ability is for. Altering physical laws? Physics or law manipulation. Transmutation of matter? That's what you list transmutation for.

Things like AP or whether it needs a ritual is things that are generally not listed on our ability pages. See our standard format for what we usually include. One could consider adding the Limitations section to the page, but that should primarily be done if the Limitation is common amongst users and not applicable to all abilities.

 

[VYNxKryos]

Reality Warping as an ability for the most part exists as an artifact from old times. It existed as a power long before we had standards for abilities, largely as a term clarification. These days its only purpose is to serve as a fallback ability. If something supernatural is weird enough that it somehow can't be classified as anything else, listing reality warping is an option.

Separating on scope is pointless now, because that's what we have other ability pages for. Altering causality is indicated by listing casuality manipulation. Creating from nothing? That's what the Creation ability is for. Altering physical laws? Physics or law manipulation. Transmutation of matter? That's what you list transmutation for.

Things like AP or whether it needs a ritual is things that are generally not listed on our ability pages. See our standard format for what we usually include. One could consider adding the Limitations section to the page, but that should primarily be done if the Limitation is common amongst users and not applicable to all abilities.

Thank you for your explanation regarding the Reality Warping page. I understand the historical context and that RW is often used as a fallback ability. However, I consider that the current presentation still creates inconsistencies that affect scaling and clarity. Allow me to clarify:


Although RW appeared as an artifact from older standards, this does not justify leaving it as a single unstructured entry. Many characters are listed under “Reality Warping” despite fundamentally different feats: some are only statement-based, while others demonstrate universal or multiversal manipulations. This merging leads to contradictions when comparing characters.


The argument that distinctions in scope are unnecessary because other ability pages exist is partially valid, but it overlooks internal clarity. Even if specific abilities like Causality Manipulation, Creation, Physics Manipulation, or Transmutation exist elsewhere, RW should categorize feats based on scope, mechanism, and demonstrated evidence. Without this, debates are often confused regarding whether a feat truly falls under reality manipulation.


Points regarding AP, rituals, or stamina, which are not listed on ability pages, are understood. However, my proposal does not mix stamina or energy with the ability itself. It rather creates a logical separation: RW-Absolute (unrestricted reality control based on feats) vs RW-Conditional (real but limited by context, rituals, artifacts, or environment). Endurance or resources remain tracked in separate sections, allowing RW to measure the pure ability without external influence.


Introducing this taxonomy does not duplicate other pages: it organizes and contextualizes RW feats for scaling purposes. This is crucial: currently, two characters with “Reality Warping” can be rated identically even though their feats are radically different. Clear internal categories prevent this and ensure debates are based on evidence rather than subjective interpretation.


In conclusion, I propose implementing a structured taxonomy on the Reality Warping page:


RW-Absolute: unrestricted universal/multiversal control demonstrated by feats
RW-Conditional: real but limited by context, rituals, artifacts, or environment
RW-Local: restricted or localized effects
RW-Abstract: affects concepts, laws, or causality rather than matter
RW-Statement: statement-only, with no demonstrated feats


This allows compatibility with other ability pages while providing clarity, preventing contradictions, and simplifying debates as well as future revisions.


Could the staff consider implementing this structured taxonomy to improve consistency and reduce subjective interpretations on the Reality Warping page?

 

[KLOL506]

I don't see the point. All this is convolution with little to no benefits with a fuckton of profiles where a one-size-fits-all rule wouldn't even work because their mechanisms for reality warping work so differently.

@Qawsedf234 @Elizhaa @DarkDragonMedeus @Agnaa @Planck69 @Everything12 @LephyrTheRevanchist

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

I agree with DontTalkDT

 

[VYNxKryos]

I agree with DontTalkDT

I understand that Reality Warping is largely a legacy term and that its purpose is to serve as a fallback for abilities that don’t fit other categories. I also see that scope distinctions may be redundant since other ability pages exist for those details.


My intention with the proposal is not to override these standards but to improve clarity and consistency in scaling. Right now, two characters with fundamentally different feats under “Reality Warping” can appear equivalent, which can confuse contributors and readers. Introducing a lightweight taxonomy (Absolute, Conditional, Local, Abstract, Statement) wouldn’t conflict with existing ability pages—it would simply organize feats for easier interpretation, keeping all current classifications valid while reducing contradictions in scaling debates.

 

[Elizhaa]

I also agree with DontTalkDT's points; I do not see the need for a revision.

 

[VYNxKryos]

I also agree with DontTalkDT's points; I do not see the need for a revision.

I had been told that the logic and efficiency of the current admins are somewhat below what they used to be in the past…

 

[The_2nd_Existential_Seed]

I had been told that the logic and efficiency of the current admins are somewhat below what they used to be in the past…

I'm only going to be here for this post because I wasn't invited, but if you're trying to get people to be on your side that isn't the way to do it.

 

[KLOL506]

I had been told that the logic and efficiency of the current admins are somewhat below what they used to be in the past…

This ain't the way to handle things here dawg, I'd watch my words if I were you.

 

[KLOL506]

@Agnaa @Qawsedf234 @DarkDragonMedeus @Elizhaa @Firestorm808 @Ultima_Reality

 

[Agnaa]

This seems unnecessary.

Problem:

At present, Reality Warping is treated as a single ability encompassing a wide range of feats:


- Creation ex nihilo,
- Rearrangement/transmutation of matter,
- Alteration of physical laws,
- Conceptual or causal manipulation,
- Pure statements with no demonstrated feats.

The problem is that all of these are listed under the same header, even though their mechanisms, scope, and evidential requierements differ drastically. This vagueness leads to contradictions: two characters with radically different demonstrations of “reality warping” may be scaled identically, even if one only has statement-level authority while the other has multiversal feats.

Pages should do more than just list an ability. They should expound on the exact uses of it and evidence for it in the Powers and Abilities section or the Notable Attacks and Techniques section, and they should expound on the scale of it in the Attack Potency section or the Range section.

LOGICAL ANALYSIS

To maintain internal consistency and facilitate scaling, we must distinguish between:

1. Scope / local vs universal vs multiversal.
2. Mechanism / transmutation, creation, law manipulation, conceptual alteration.
3. Evidence / feat-based vs statement-only.
4. Conditionality / in-universe limitations (rituals, artifacts, stamina).

Currently, none of these distinctions are explicitly enforced in the ability page, even though they are decisive in debates and profile building.

These are things which need to be assessed for literally every ability. It would be pointless to exhaustively explain that on all of our ability pages. They should simply be addressed elsewhere in the relevant profile.

PROPOSED SOLUTION

Introduce a clear taxonomy of operational categories:


- RW-Absolute: unrestricted, feat-backed control at a universal/multiversal level.
- RW-Conditional: real but dependent on conditions (rituals, artifacts, environment).
- RW-Local: restricted to small-scale or localized alterations.
- RW-Abstract: affecting concepts, laws, or causality rather than matter.
- RW-Statement: statement-only with no demonstrated feats.

​

RULES OF ACCEPTANCE

- RW-Absolute requires at least one canonical feat demonstrating reality-level control.
- RW-Statement should never automatically be equated to RW-Absolute.
- Endurance or resource limits must be logged separately (Stamina/Resource) rather than altering the ability tier itself.
- If a feat involves physical creation (mass-energy equivalence), it should be calc’d accordingly or classified as hax if it involves law/conceptual alteration.

And so, I do not think your solutions are ideal ones.

I had been told that the logic and efficiency of the current admins are somewhat below what they used to be in the past…

Funny that you say that for this thread. Elizhaa's been an admin since March 2020, and an active user since late 2017. DarkDragonMedeus' been an admin since May 2019, and an active user since early 2017. DontTalk's been an admin (with some breaks) since August 2015, and an active user since early 2015.

I've only been an admin for a few years, but I've also been active since late 2017.

To say that staff suck now for a thread that's being rejected by a bunch of staff who have been around for ages. lmao

 

[Vietthai96]

Yeah, no offense to OP, but this thread and its purpose is really pointless. Reality Warping is a fallback ability, all-catching one that encompasses ability that suppose to warp, bend, distort reality. For specific application, we already have page such as Conceptual Manipulation, Fate Manipulation, etc....If a character can manipulate concept and bend reality, then we could just list both CM and RW on said character profile, separating on scopes is really pointless, redundant and unnecessary that serve no purpose

And like Agnaa has said, the most important of all is ability justification, explanation, without them, ability is mostly moot

 

[KLOL506]

4 admin disagrees and a thread mod disagree. I don't see the point of this thread staying open.