Devil May Cry: Into The Multiverse

[SuperSonicTL]

The Multiverse​

What are Alternate Timelines?​

In DMC 2’s novel, our Dante gets sent to an alternative timeline by the beastheads, aka a parallel universe, not that impressive right? Well, in the original Japanese novel the narrative explains the existence of such phenomena by saying that there are as many what-ifs as there are possibilities, alternative worlds of parallel existence, and the world Dante was sent in was stated to be a different choice. This sits perfectly with the definition of many worlds interpretation which asserts the following: The many-worlds interpretation implies that there are most likely infinitely many universes.

It is one of a number of multiverse hypotheses in physics and philosophy. MWI views time as a many-branched tree, wherein every possible quantum outcome is realized. DMC uses this theory to explain the existence of such parallel universes like the one where Dante gets sent to or the notorious DMC reboot which was stated to be a parallel universe and to have a parallel universe relationship ship with DMC and since we have evidence that there is an infinite amount of demons as well as the fact that Demon World is infinite in size, this will mean that there are infinite what-ifs/possibilities and parallel universes within the multiverse (2-A), for more supporting evidence chen was stated to have infinite knowledge of using a sword as you can see here. This is important because Chen’s knowledge is directly tied to his clairvoyant visions which if you don’t know, his vision spans all across the multiverse (beyond all dimensions here is referring to all alternative realities) which supports the existence of infinite timelines.

Conclusion​

Since different choices/what-ifs equals to the amount of possibilities and parallel universes, and as we have established earlier, there is an infinite amount of demons and the world of DMC is infinite in scope. This will mean that the multiverse has infinite parallel universes/timelines (2-A) within it along with Chen’s statements supporting that fact which upgrades the cosmology quite a bit.

The Feats​

Helfilth's Story Mode:​

We all are familiar with Peak of Combat's main story mode. Pluto descends, plotting to merge the world together, Dante and cos tries to stop them and soo on. However, what we are not aware of is the side story that is being taken place within the game which is conveyed through different event stories and made us put the pieces of the entire puzzle together by ourselves.

The story revolves around a mysterious Gear (likely an artifact of Matilda) that travels across past and future in order to gather our beloved characters to a singular goal—the goal to defeat a Demon Lord known as Helfilth. Helfilth's very first introduction surprisingly didn't came from the side story but rather, a Co-op mode where his description states that he is a Demon Lord that wanders beyond time and space.

Now, initially I believed that the statement in question was referring to his nightmare space which manifests entities like Sargassos that are non-existent and transcendent in nature. However, the context was finally revealed in Alchemical Gambler's chapter where we learned that Helfilth literally wanders beyond the Multiverse. When Helfilth thrown Dante and Vergil into the void through shatter space-time, they came across a weird world in contrast to their own. Initially, Dante assumed Helfilth threw them into the past. However, Dante started wondering if it really is the past or, infact, a Parallel universe. This fact was further proven later by the description of the event in question. With that said, time itself was in chaotic state, space and time is totally screwed and the world in general was at risk of destruction. They faced Helfilth later on who started monologuing about how he is going to collapse all of space and time as a result of his actions. After Helfilth sealed them in the dimension they were trapped in and escaped, we came across another chapter called Charging Volts where Dante came across yet another world thanks to Broken gear's time travelling capabilities which allowed him to be free from the shackles of time that Helfilth casted on him. Here, we got more context about how Helfilth has disrupted every timeline within the multiverse.

Update: The method of causing this instability within the multiverse is due to actively rearranging time and space which goes along the description of Helfilth being considered the master of dimensional rifts.

Beastheads Shenanigans:​

As you can already see in the multiverse establishment section, it isn't the first time we touched the multiverse in question. We came across it way long ago in the novels where Dante was trying to retrieve Beastheads' statue which was made by Demon God Mundus. Beastheads was formally introduced as an entity who is embodiment of past, present and future. Upon being powered by Beastheads, Chen started to describe his characteristics to gain all kinds of knowledge through it as well as capable of seeing beyond all dimensions and time (referring to the multiverse). This is also proven by pure feats where he can throw his victims across parallel timelines or cast fate hax that operates outside his own timeline and many other shenanigans that deals with time as a whole. Interestingly, he is also stated to reshape reality itself according to his design which could potentially include all of multiverse depending on the context.

Note: This part of the section should only be used as a point of consistency or supporting evidence as it's on its own probably not enough.

Overall Conclusion​

With all the evidence in mind, we can say for sure now that the cast has not only the range to effect the infinite multiverse but outright destroy it if they wish to. This all goes consistent with our UES where Demonic Energy's characteristics is distributed among power, speed and abilities as a whole. As for where Helfilth currently stands in the food chain? He is pretty fodder and can get his ass handed to weaker and younger Dante. We can discuss the scaling later on but this is all we got for now.

Agree:
@DarkDragonMedeus (Admin), @Vietthai96 (Possibly/Likely, mod), @Planck69
(Admin), @Elizhaa (Admin)
Neutral:

Disagree:​

 

[Unoriginal777]

The Multiverse​

What are Alternate Timelines?​

In DMC 2’s novel, our Dante gets sent to an alternative timeline by the beastheads, aka a parallel universe, not that impressive right? Well, in the original Japanese novel the narrative explains the existence of such phenomena by saying that there are as many what-ifs as there are possibilities, alternative worlds of parallel existence, and the world Dante was sent in was stated to be a different choice. This sits perfectly with the definition of many worlds interpretation which asserts the following: The many-worlds interpretation implies that there are most likely infinitely many universes.

It is one of a number of multiverse hypotheses in physics and philosophy. MWI views time as a many-branched tree, wherein every possible quantum outcome is realized. DMC uses this theory to explain the existence of such parallel universes like the one where Dante gets sent to or the notorious DMC reboot which was stated to be a parallel universe and to have a parallel universe relationship ship with DMC and since we have evidence that there is an infinite amount of demons as well as the fact that Demon World is infinite in size, this will mean that there are infinite what-ifs/possibilities and parallel universes within the multiverse, for more supporting evidence chen was stated to have infinite knowledge of using a sword as you can see here. This is important because Chen’s knowledge is directly tied to his clairvoyant visions which if you don’t know, his vision spans all across the multiverse (beyond all dimensions here is referring to all alternative realities) which supports the existence of infinite timelines.

Conclusion​

Since different choices/what-ifs equals to the amount of possibilities and parallel universes, and as we have established earlier, there is an infinite amount of demons and the world of DMC is infinite in scope. This will mean that the multiverse has infinite parallel universes/timelines within it along with Chen’s statements supporting that fact which upgrades the cosmology quite a bit.

The Feats​

Helfilth's Story Mode:​

We all are familiar with Peak of Combat's main story mode. Pluto descends, plotting to merge the world together, Dante and cos tries to stop them and soo on. However, what we are not aware of is the side story that is being taken place within the game which is conveyed through different event stories and made us put the pieces of the entire puzzle together by ourselves.

The story revolves around a mysterious Gear (likely an artifact of Matilda) that travels across past and future in order to gather our beloved characters to a singular goal—the goal to defeat a Demon Lord known as Helfilth. Helfilth's very first introduction surprisingly didn't came from the side story but rather, a Co-op mode where his description states that he is a Demon Lord that wanders beyond time and space.

Now, initially I believed that the statement in question was referring to his nightmare space which manifests entities like Sargassos that are non-existent and transcendent in nature. However, the context was finally revealed in Alchemical Gambler's chapter where we learned that Helfilth literally wanders beyond the Multiverse. When Helfilth thrown Dante and Vergil into the void through shatter space-time, they came across a weird world in contrast to their own. Initially, Dante assumed Helfilth threw them into the past. However, Dante started wondering if it really is the past or, infact, a Parallel universe. This fact was further proven later by the description of the event in question. With that said, time itself was in chaotic state, space and time is totally screwed and the world in general was at risk of destruction. They faced Helfilth later on who started monologuing about how he is going to collapse all of space and time as a result of his actions. After Helfilth sealed them in the dimension they were trapped in and escaped, we came across another chapter called Charging Volts where Dante came across yet another world thanks to Broken gear's time travelling capabilities which allowed him to be free from the shackles of time that Helfilth casted on him. Here, we got more context about how Helfilth has disrupted every timeline within the multiverse.

Beastheads Shenanigans:​

As you can already see in the multiverse establishment section, it isn't the first time we touched the multiverse in question. We came across it way long ago in the novels where Dante was trying to retrieve Beastheads' statue which was made by Demon God Mundus. Beastheads was formally introduced as an entity who is embodiment of past, present and future. Upon being powered by Beastheads, Chen started to describe his characteristics to gain all kinds of knowledge through it as well as capable of seeing beyond all dimensions and time (referring to the multiverse). This is also proven by pure feats where he can throw his victims across parallel timelines or cast fate hax that operates outside his own timeline and many other shenanigans that deals with time as a whole. Interestingly, he is also stated to reshape reality itself according to his design which could potentially include all of multiverse depending on the context.

Note: This part of the section should only be used as a point of consistency or supporting evidence as it's on its own probably not enough.

Overall Conclusion​

With all the evidence in mind, we can say for sure now that the cast has not only the range to effect the infinite multiverse but outright destroy it if they wish to. This all goes consistent with our UES where Demonic Energy's characteristics is distributed among power, speed and abilities as a whole. As for where Helfilth currently stands in the food chain? He is pretty fodder and can get his ass handed to weaker and younger Dante. We can discuss the scaling later on but this is all we got for now.

Agree:

Neutral:

Disagree:​

Naturally I agree with what is being said above, but to give some context on what @SuperSonicTL is referring to when he speaks of why there are infinite timelines with respect to the multiverse on account of the DW (in each timeline being infinite) combined with the nature of the multiverse as a what-if generator. Think of it this way. Now imagine you're Vergil traveling through the underworld after falling into Hell. Recall that Hell is an infinite area meaning that there are infinite places for Vergil to potentially travel to. He axiomatically in this moment would have infinite choices even if he isn't literally walking from place to place and instead lots to portal around to different areas around Hell. When you combine this infinitude of choice with a multiverse based on choice or simply possibility for that matter well... that's an undeniably 2-A multiverse. Now if that doesn't suit a person's tastes we can always use the example of Devil Mite who has literally infinite abilities and apply that to the what-if engine of the multiverse and bam 2-A once again.

 

[TokiNoOuja]

The scan for Helfith disturb all Timelines is broken
Also how does Helfith gonna collapsing the Multiverse?was he doing so just by causing paradox created by Time Travel?

 

[SuperSonicTL]

The scan for Helfith disturb all Timelines is broken

But it works for me?

Also how does Helfith gonna collapsing the Multiverse?was he doing so just by causing paradox created by Time Travel?

There is no paradox involved here.

 

[Unoriginal777]

The scan for Helfith disturb all Timelines is broken
Also how does Helfith gonna collapsing the Multiverse?was he doing so just by causing paradox created by Time Travel?

Hellfilth does it via his UES. Therefore, it scales. That's how demonic energy works.

 

[Palito266]

Hellfilth does it via his UES.

How do we know that

 

[Unoriginal777]

How do we know that

Because you'd need to provide evidence of a secondary energy system that has never once been referenced in this entire series up until this point. So I'm gonna need your sourcing for a secondary UES via Hitchens Razor that doesn't operate on magic/demonic energy which is responsible for all supernatural abilities demons use up until this point.

 

[SuperSonicTL]

How do we know that

Ignoring something as blatant as Beastheads right in the corner there, how can the soo called "chain reaction" gonna stop with his death after he started the process in the first place? Think about it.

The artifact clearly tried to stop Helfilth by asking Dante's help if it was really some kind of "chain reaction" then what stops Broken Gear to just transport him to the source of the "chain reaction" and try to fix it by himself? Surely it isn't gonna be as hard if it can be caused soo easily. Who's gonna stop him? Helfilth? That dude was getting manhandled by a much weaker version of Dante iirc.

Unless proven it's some kind of paradox, I don't see any other reason to dismiss the evidence at hand out of assumptions.

 

[Tony_di_bugalu]

for more supporting evidence chen was stated to have infinite knowledge of using a sword as you can see here. This is important because Chen’s knowledge is directly tied to his clairvoyant visions which if you don’t know, his vision spans all across the multiverse (beyond all dimensions here is referring to all alternative realities) which supports the existence of infinite timelines.

You know my stance here, the statement about chen and shit is not talking about parallel timelines, otherwise they would have said so the same way the explicitly say parallel universe when Dante is isekai'd to the other world.

The story revolves around a mysterious Gear (likely an artifact of Matilda) that travels across past and future in order to gather our beloved characters to a singular goal—the goal to defeat a Demon Lord known as Helfilth. Helfilth's very first introduction surprisingly didn't came from the side story but rather, a Co-op mode where his description states that he is a Demon Lord that wanders beyond time and space.

Where is the proof of this? Where was it even hinted? Why would that be it's goal when Dante already folded and scared hellfilth in a much weaker form in the past? We know absolutely nothing about the Time Artifact beyond yeeting people across time and space, even parallel universes and being one of the six artifacts along the Space Artifact and the Book of Demons

Now, initially I believed that the statement in question was referring to his nightmare space which manifests entities like Sargassos that are non-existent and transcendent in nature. However, the context was finally revealed in Alchemical Gambler's chapter where we learned that Helfilth literally wanders beyond the Multiverse. When Helfilth thrown Dante and Vergil into the void through shatter space-time, they came across a weird world in contrast to their own. Initially, Dante assumed Helfilth threw them into the past. However, Dante started wondering if it really is the past or, infact, a Parallel universe. This fact was further proven later by the description of the event in question. With that said, time itself was in chaotic state, space and time is totally screwed and the world in general was at risk of destruction. They faced Helfilth later on who started monologuing about how he is going to collapse all of space and time as a result of his actions. After Helfilth sealed them in the dimension they were trapped in and escaped, we came across another chapter called Charging Volts where Dante came across yet another world thanks to Broken gear's time travelling capabilities which allowed him to be free from the shackles of time that Helfilth casted on him. Here, we got more context about how Helfilth has disrupted every timeline within the multiverse.

I need to point out that we actually know how Hellfilth has disrupted every timeline and that was by pulling a Trazyn and yoiking people from their timelines and into his collection. Unless stated otherwise.

With all the evidence in mind, we can say for sure now that the cast has not only the range to effect the infinite multiverse but outright destroy it if they wish to.

Why? Literally only Hellfilth and the BH have shown such range. Even Void Mundus needed to use the BH to communicate with Dante in vol 2.

There is no reason for them to get this range.

This all goes consistent with our UES where Demonic Energy's characteristics is distributed among power, speed and abilities as a whole. As for where Helfilth currently stands in the food chain? He is pretty fodder and can get his ass handed to weaker and younger Dante. We can discuss the scaling later on but this is all we got for now.

UES doesn't mean you get the range or scale to things like environmental destruction tho



Why don't you wait till Hellfilth's story is actually over so we know how the whole thing pans out first?

 

[SuperSonicTL]

You know my stance here, the statement about chen and shit is not talking about parallel timelines, otherwise they would have said so the same way the explicitly say parallel universe when Dante is isekai'd to the other world.

First, try to discuss this with the translators here and here. Second, it literally verbatim says to be beyond "all" dimensions and time? What else it implies? Spatial dimensions? Argued it and was rejected, next.

Where is the proof of this? Where was it even hinted? Why would that be it's goal when Dante already folded and scared hellfilth in a much weaker form in the past? We know absolutely nothing about the Time Artifact beyond yeeting people across time and space, even parallel universes and being one of the six artifacts along the Space Artifact and the Book of Demons

In order to destroy all Human World across the multiverse since Demon World can always be sustained by their respective Demon Gods? Forgot how Timelines work for the verse? And time artifact can only be the result of Matilda's sacrifice (even the wiki link there suggests it to be the only option). I don't see any other source for it. Pluto? Ain't the entire plot of Time Artifact is against him?

I need to point out that we actually know how Hellfilth has disrupted every timeline and that was by pulling a Trazyn and yoiking people from their timelines and into his collection. Unless stated otherwise.

Dumb reason. That was without mentioning how broken gear was doing the same who's goal is clearly opposite to Helfilth. This and Dante and Beryl clearly ventured into different timeline during novel. Where is the soo called "chain reaction" went?

Why? Literally only Hellfilth and the BH have shown such range. Even Void Mundus needed to use the BH to communicate with Dante in vol 2.

There is no reason for them to get this range.

Why? It is literally his creation? They have the range, it just wouldn't serve their purpose as they just wish to rule their own world not outright destroy them like Helfilth (seriously where would Helfilth be then since his place is literally inside Underworld?).

UES doesn't mean you get the range or scale to things like environmental destruction tho

Alright, lets dismiss Argosax's feat and Solar Eclipse feat then since you guyz are using it without any reason.

Why don't you wait till Hellfilth's story is actually over so we know how the whole thing pans out first?

We already know how it pans out. Helfilth sustaining the destabilization of timelines & Broken Gear trying to prevent it. Also, almost all your reasons are self-made ideas without any source to back it up. The feat is clear as day infront of us. There is no chain reaction stated neither it explains why defeating Helfilth gonna stop the process. Your logic is all flawed here.

Even if I follow your logic, we can't ignore how we already experienced alternate timeline in novel 2 and no chain reaction was happened like at all despite the literal timeline nuking up as a result of the actions in there. Similar case is with broken Gear who is literally going across past and future to grab people and help him. There is zero reason to assume it's a dominos effect or anything like that.

 

[Palito266]

Because you'd need to provide evidence of a secondary energy system that has never once been referenced in this entire series up until this point. So I'm gonna need your sourcing for a secondary UES via Hitchens Razor that doesn't operate on magic/demonic energy which is responsible for all supernatural abilities demons use up until this point.

Hellfilth could've made the collapse in multiple ways; maybe he was actively swapping people from timeline to timeline, wrecking havoc upon the space-time continuum.
Given that all we're getting are statements and not something solid on how his method works, how long it takes, if he does it through his own energy, etc. This is too vague to be used, and it leaves more questions than answers.

For now, I think Hellfilth should have 2-A range and 2-A AP via overtime environmental destruction, which doesn't scale to other characters. Given that we don't know much about his abilities, the lower-end interpretation that makes the most sense must be used, which is 2-A via overtime environmental destruction.

 

[Unoriginal777]

Hellfilth could've made the collapse in multiple ways; maybe he was actively swapping people from timeline to timeline, wrecking havoc upon the space-time continuum.
Given that all we're getting are statements and not something solid on how his method works, how long it takes, if he does it through his own energy, etc. This is too vague to be used, and it leaves more questions than answers.

For now, I think Hellfilth should have 2-A range and 2-A AP via overtime environmental destruction, which doesn't scale to other characters. Given that we don't know much about his abilities, the lower-end interpretation that makes the most sense must be used, which is 2-A via overtime environmental destruction.

I don't think so. The reason I say this is that DMC Volume 2 is literally a story about how characters end up in timelines they're not supposed to be. Nevertheless, their presence doesn't inherently destabilize the existence of that timeline and if you claim they do I will require evidence of this claim. Also Hellfilth's methods are pretty clear since he himself states that he's actively rearranging space and time across the multiverse ad verbatim (minute 11:23 and 11:26) and the only way Hellfilth can do this is via the power of the Demonic Energy System which is what every demon uses to perform supernatural feats. So no, there's no environmental destruction undercuts viable here seeing as HF is affecting the entire multiverse in this way casually as Hellfilth treats this about as casually as a person collecting souvenirs from a binge shopping spree. This is 2-A scaling for direct ap and it's not getting lower due to how the DMC UES works with this.

 

[SuperSonicTL]

I don't think so. The reason I say this is that DMC Volume 2 is literally a story about how characters end up in timelines they're not supposed to be. Nevertheless, their presence doesn't inherently destabilize the existence of that timeline and if you claim they do I will require evidence of this claim. Also Hellfilth's methods are pretty clear since he himself states that he's actively rearranging space and time across the multiverse ad verbatim (minute 11:23 and 11:26) and the only way Hellfilth can do this is via the power of the Demonic Energy System which is what every demon uses to perform supernatural feats. So no, there's no environmental destruction undercuts viable here seeing as HF is affecting the entire multiverse in this way casually as Hellfilth treats this about as casually as a person collecting souvenirs from a binge shopping spree. This is 2-A scaling for direct ap and it's not getting lower due to how the DMC UES works with this.

Yeah, that mostly why Dante stated space and time is screwed or why time itself is in chaos. He's actively causing it. Thanks for pointing this out. Almost forgot about it.

 

[ShroobWasTaken]

Streets saying DMC is no longer fodder??
Following for now

 

[Ruphas_Mafahl123]

Streets saying DMC is no longer fodder??
Following for now

He never was

 

[SuperSonicTL]

Streets saying DMC is no longer fodder??
Following for now

Ironically, we even solved the Mundus creation debate by getting the scans from an obscure guide that states Mundus indeed created his infamous universe (although we still have to implement it on the wiki)

 

[Follow_Doctor_Freeman]

Much better OP this time. Still some shaky things such as the Beastheads having fate hax (we went over how a description of how Beryl felt afraid and doomed won't cut it for that) and some bad links (that Pluto one doesn't even relate to his power) that you could have polished out with some better help. But that's tertiary, so let's get right to the important stuff.

That DMC2 novel does suggest a 2-A multiverse via MWI, yes. Worth noting as well that the parallel timeline Dante & Beryl got BFR'd to had its own Demon World different than the one in the main timeline, so it seems there isn't one big Demon World underneath everything else, rather that each timeline has a Human World & a Demon World. As someone familiar with all of the series sans Peak of Combat, I don't know of anything that contradicts that bit of obscure lore; if anything, these PoC scans seem to collaborate it. Or at least not contradict it in an apparent way aside from maybe not acknowledging every timeline having its own Human & Demon Worlds (because who aside from us even remembers that novel?), which is weird but not a huge deal imo.

Therefore, the issue isn't the size of the cosmology being 2-A so much as if anyone can destroy it. Now, Environmental Destruction being its own separate stat is outlining something like one not being strong enough to collapse a building in one punch but being able to collapse it with prep time & precise moves, like pulling bricks from a Jenga tower. It looks as if Hellfilth just yoinks stuff from various timelines & that could cause a resonance cascade or something. I could see one reading that defeat dialogue as being just about that one realm they were in being the "But all of time and space -- it's already begun to collapse!" but I think Dante saying they saved the world after the fight & before (around the 11 minute mark in that same video) was implying something bigger was at stake.

Here, we got more context about how Helfilth has disrupted every timeline within the multiverse.

Where is this from? The video for this and as many other relevant videos (in addition to the scans since context should be noted) as possible should be included in the OP. It would also be good for any future scan pages to mention video titles, timestamps, the name of the relevant missions, etc.

 

[Unoriginal777]

Much better OP this time. Still some shaky things such as the Beastheads having fate hax (we went over how a description of how Beryl felt afraid and doomed won't cut it for that) and some bad links (that Pluto one doesn't even relate to his power) that you could have polished out with some better help. But that's tertiary, so let's get right to the important stuff.


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That DMC2 novel does suggest a 2-A multiverse via MWI, yes. Worth noting as well that the parallel timeline Dante & Beryl got BFR'd to had its own Demon World different than the one in the main timeline, so it seems there isn't one big Demon World underneath everything else, rather that each timeline has a Human World & a Demon World. As someone familiar with all of the series sans Peak of Combat, I don't know of anything that contradicts that bit of obscure lore; if anything, these PoC scans seem to collaborate it. Or at least not contradict it in an apparent way aside from maybe not acknowledging every timeline having its own Human & Demon Worlds (because who aside from us even remembers that novel?), which is weird but not a huge deal imo.

Therefore, the issue isn't the size of the cosmology being 2-A so much as if anyone can destroy it. Now, Environmental Destruction being its own separate stat is outlining something like one not being strong enough to collapse a building in one punch but being able to collapse it with prep time & precise moves, like pulling bricks from a Jenga tower. It looks as if Hellfilth just yoinks stuff from various timelines & that could cause a resonance cascade or something. I could see one reading that defeat dialogue as being just about that one realm they were in being the "But all of time and space -- it's already begun to collapse!" but I think Dante saying they saved the world after the fight & before (around the 11 minute mark in that same video) was implying something bigger was at stake.



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Where is this from? The video for this and as many other relevant videos (in addition to the scans since context should be noted) as possible should be included in the OP. It would also be good for any future scan pages to mention video titles, timestamps, the name of the relevant missions, etc.

To begin, PoC shouldn't be in question as it had already been affirmed as undeniably canon multiple times at this point so trying to mine for possible contradictions is a tad redundant. Moving forward, I want to address that all notions of chain reaction/environmental destruction are not viable. The reason being is that Hellfilth is not pulling stuff which when put in no-no places suddenly causes the multiverse to destabilize (if that was the case, Dante being in another timeline in Volume 2 should've been distorting the timeline at least), but is pulling time and space itself and rearranging it in chaotic patterns (11:23 and 11:26) on a multiversal scale simultaneously (that means he's doing it to every single continuum). He himself is doing this alone and very speedily at that via demonic energy cause it's the only thing he has to perform these supernatural feats as a demon. Furthermore, because this is on a 2-A scale even if we play at the notion that HF was disrupting select section of each continuum by literally rearranging their temporal and spatial aspects in chaotic ways, guess what: 2-A is infinite and cannot be reduced by being spliced in quantity so long as the character is affecting the entire structure in scope which Hellfilth is in this case. Lastly, as stated before with UES everything scales similar to the qualifications for the Argosax feat with him affecting the Human and Demon worlds over time, but still at their full scope with each being continuums and thereby a type of infinity making them irreducible.

As for mission titles I'll leave that to the OP to dispense should he feel inclined, but the first set of missions is the Alchemical Gambler Dante mission set which I've already linked in this post. The second set, @SuperSonicTL will provide at his leisure.

 

[Follow_Doctor_Freeman]

To begin, PoC shouldn't be in question as it had already been affirmed as undeniably canon multiple times at this point so trying to mine for possible contradictions is a tad redundant. Moving forward, I want to address that all notions of chain reaction/environmental destruction are not viable. The reason being is that Hellfilth is not pulling stuff, but is pulling time and space itself and rearranging it in chaotic patterns (11:23 and 11:26) on a multiversal scale. He himself is doing this alone via demonic energy cause it's the only thing he has to perform these supernatural feats as a demon. Furthermore, because this is on a 2-A scale even if we play at the notion that HF was disrupting select section of each continuum by rearranging their temporal and spatial aspects in chaotic ways, guess what: 2-A is infinite and cannot be reduced in spliced in quantity so long as the character is affecting the entire structure in scope which Hellfilth is in this case. Lastly, as stated before with UES everything scales similar to the qualifications for the Argosax feat with him affecting the Human and Demon worlds over time, but still at their full scope with each being continuums and not reduceable.

As for mission titles I'll leave that to the OP to dispense should he feel inclined, but the first set of missions is the Alchemical Gambler Dante mission set which I've already linked in this post. The second set, @SuperSonicTL will provide at his leisure.

Peak of Combat being canon or not wasn't my main concern, but might as well address that, sure. What part of each of those three long articles is the relevant bit, though? Link those AND quote them at the same time.

UES is moot here. You can also use your UES potency to pull a single block from a massive Jenga tower; that doesn't mean your UES was a strong-enough well of power to punch the tower down directly. Yeah, a finite number of local changes resulting in an infinite cascade is weird, but so is all this. I'm not powerscaling-nerdy enough to have a lot of examples in mind and don't even know the full context on this one, but here's page of a lower-dimensional being with 3D stats in that key having "2-A via Environmental Destruction" in the profile; I'm sure others can come up with more examples. Like I said last time, precedent matters.

What we must determine is if Hellfilth threatened the multiverse by pulling Jenga blocks via making time-paradoxes here and there to cause some kind of infinite cascade or if she (not he btw) had a more direct influence on that infinite scale. It could very well be the latter due to the aforementioned quote of her having "disrupted every timeline," but we need these sources -- you can't recognize the origins of what's being used as evidence in the post you cosign? -- to be more sure after checking context to make sure nothing contradicts. That isn't some optional thing to dispense if one feels inclined; it's integral to make sure the OP's propositions makes sense.

But yeah, not much more to add until someone delivers source links to complete our pool of data to assess. Save that IF we confirm that Hellfilth has extracted stuff from/otherwise meddled with infinite timelines, the next step would be to get staff and other members experienced with interpreting esoteric feats like this to weigh in on what that would qualify as AP-wise before we jump the gun. Could indeed be something there in the cheapo spinoff game, though.

 

[Unoriginal777]

Peak of Combat being canon or not wasn't my main concern, but might as well address that, sure. What part of each of those three long articles is the relevant bit, though? Link those AND quote them at the same time.

UES is moot here. You can also use your UES potency to pull a single block from a massive Jenga tower; that doesn't mean your UES was a strong-enough well of power to punch the tower down directly. Yeah, a finite number of local changes resulting in an infinite cascade is weird, but so is all this. I'm not powerscaling-nerdy enough to have a lot of examples in mind and don't even know the full context on this one, but here's page of a lower-dimensional being with 3D stats in that key having "2-A via Environmental Destruction" in the profile; I'm sure others can come up with more examples. Like I said last time, precedent matters.

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What we must determine is if Hellfilth threatened the multiverse by pulling Jenga blocks via making time-paradoxes here and there to cause some kind of infinite cascade or if she (not he btw) had a more direct influence on that infinite scale. It could very well be the latter due to the aforementioned quote of her having "disrupted every timeline," but we need these sources -- you can't recognize the origins of what's being used as evidence in the post you cosign? -- to be more sure after checking context to make sure nothing contradicts. That isn't some optional thing to dispense if one feels inclined; it's integral to make sure the OP's propositions makes sense.

But yeah, not much more to add until someone delivers source links to complete our pool of data to assess. Save that IF we confirm that Hellfilth has extracted stuff from/otherwise meddled with infinite timelines, the next step would be to get staff and other members experienced with interpreting esoteric feats like this to weigh in on what that would qualify as AP-wise before we jump the gun. Could indeed be something there in the cheapo spinoff game, though.

Instead of doing that I'm going to link you to the most relevant articles/quotes which I may have failed to link earlier. The first goes something like this: "Devil May Cry: Peak of War" is a sequel to Devil May Cry developed by Yunchang Games and the official team of Capcom Devil May Cry is deeply involved. The story of this game takes place between Devil May Cry 3 and Devil May Cry 1, filling the plot gap between the two games.* In the game, players will have the opportunity to control the characters in "Devil May Cry 3" to fight against classic bosses of all generations. In addition, this game has original designs added, and a brand new and different world is waiting for you to explore!”

The second is an interview video that goes something like this: Itsuno: "I'm working on the game together with NebulaJoy Staff, following on from version 1.0." (6:19). Also note the following quote "Well the plot is based on the third generation and the characters of the 3rd generation." (6:57). These quotes are blatant in showing the canonicity as approved by Itsuno who was acting director of DMC at the time.

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Sorry, but this is old news at this point and shouldn't need to be reiterated.

Now that established let's move onto the issues you bring forth with my friend Hellfilth. The problem with the analogy here is that you construe DMC UES in this case as only messing with the spatial temporal continuum directly in an area akin to removing a Jenga piece that causes everything else to fall and is hax based only which undermines the scaling (and mind you in this UES for DMC physicals also directly scales as this is pretty directly stated in the blog) you then cite MCU's Dr. Strange as a rebuttal. Unfortunately, this doesn't work in practice when we examine MCU Stranger's environmental destruction feat is contingent on him messing with the timeline by creating a paradox at a specific point in time directly. Furthermore, if you read further you would know that with magic Strange can directly upscale to Infinity Ultron who is directly Low Complex Multiversal. So not really a case of a 3D character who's hax outpaces his ap and given magic in MCU is not clearly defined as a UES on this site we can't consider it as one. Conversely, in DMC land it takes a lot more than run of the mill paradoxes to mess with a timeline given the example of Phantom with the Argosax situation. Considering that Hellfilth remarks and I reiterate that he was rearranging time and space itself rather than just extricating or inserting objects I via Occam's must take him at his word. That means he's not just pulling out one piece of the Jenga tower, but is twisting every part of the tower structure by bending and distorting its material makeup. Nothing is left untouched according to him as what is being distorted is the space and time of the entire multiverse (11:26). This is all without mentioning that DE as a UES scales to physical stats as shown by the blog so again not much room for reductionistic interpretation.

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As for the sourcing of the second volley of scans I will wait on @SuperSonicTL, however, I'd already given you the first part with Alchemical Gambler.

 

[Follow_Doctor_Freeman]

Well, it can have a point of time it's set in and even have former staff without necessarily being canon. But worst-case scenario it's just a Dissidia: Final Fantasy thing & not something to dismiss altogether.

And yeah, as mentioned I'm not familiar with the plot of that Dr. Strange thing, that was just something that came up when I searched for "2-A via Environmental Destruction [due to fiddling with timelines]." The Low 1-C key and magic aren't part of the equation. If it isn't comparable enough then I'll leave it to others to provide any examples if necessary, just don't let that possibility blindside you.

And what I mean with Jenga and environmental destruction is like if you pressed the blow-Earth-up button yet not having that make your normal AP planet level. But if nothing else, even if Hellfilth was nonplussed about being about to collapse the multiverse with Jenga-pulling kleptomania as opposed to direct spacetime-warping, that might still be a durability feat. Might have escaped to a personal bunker-realm, but that lowball makes about as many assumptions. And bringing up Argosax again to reiterate that DMC's cosmology has survived time paradoxes before without collapsing is an interesting point.

Aight, that's all I got for now until new data is in play & old data is/isn't solidified by it. A lot of this is going to come down to the honchos' interpretations, but let's hold off on that until we're sure what we're dealing with here.

 

[Unoriginal777]

Well, it can have a point of time it's set in and even have former staff without necessarily being canon. But worst-case scenario it's just a Dissidia: Final Fantasy thing & not something to dismiss altogether.

And yeah, as mentioned I'm not familiar with the plot of that Dr. Strange thing, that was just something that came up when I searched for "2-A via Environmental Destruction [due to fiddling with timelines]." The Low 1-C key and magic aren't part of the equation. If it isn't comparable enough then I'll leave it to others to provide any examples if necessary, just don't let that possibility blindside you.

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And what I mean with Jenga and environmental destruction is like if you pressed the blow-Earth-up button yet not having that make your normal AP planet level. But if nothing else, even if Hellfilth was nonplussed about being about to collapse the multiverse with Jenga-pulling kleptomania as opposed to direct spacetime-warping, that might still be a durability feat. Might have escaped to a personal bunker-realm, but that lowball makes about as many assumptions. And bringing up Argosax again to reiterate that DMC's cosmology has survived time paradoxes before without collapsing is an interesting point.

Aight, that's all I got for now until new data is in play & old data is/isn't solidified by it. A lot of this is going to come down to the honchos' interpretations, but let's hold off on that until we're sure what we're dealing with here.

The issue with Dissidia versus PoC is that one is a crossover game, the other is a direct sequel. Knowing Itsuno is behind the project and allows its declaration as a sequel should via Occam's show is it is canon, no ifs, or ands, or buts. If not then a defamation suit surely would've found its way to NebulaJoy or threats of one forcing a public apology for daring to defame the DMC property with a false declaration.

Yeah I know what you mean by the Jenga analogy. Problem is that requires actual evidence of Hellfilth needing to mess with just the right stuff to get the ball rolling. We don't get that. Instead we get that he's ripping time and space out of the proper alignment in all timelines and just doing it with gleefulness akin to a child setting up his toyhouse so it must be out of his own power which is Demonic Energy and that means it scales to ap. He really couldn't give a rip about destroying the multiverse (0:31 and 11:18). Furthermore, you consistently ignore how Demonic Energy works as a UES time and time again. Everything scales to physicals. Outright. Furthermore, the bunker realm scenario for durability would feed into AP implicitly due to how DE is meant to work.

Regardless, I thank you for how cordial you were and enjoyed this conversation, however brief it might've been.

 

[TokiNoOuja]

But it works for me?

Weird it does'nt exist for me

There is no paradox involved here.

Well cuz u know he dimensional travel all the time

 

[Antonio2288]

I agree.

 

[ShroobWasTaken]

So far while reading the argument I'm leaning towards agree on this (the 2-A stuff), good shit

 

[LuffyRuffy46307]

I definitely agree with 2-A, although op hasn't made it very explicit that his aim is to make cosmology take 2-A.

 

[SuperSonicTL]

I definitely agree with 2-A, although op hasn't made it very explicit that his aim is to make cosmology take 2-A.

Sorry for that. Let me put the indication there.

 

[SuperSonicTL]

Where is this from? The video for this and as many other relevant videos (in addition to the scans since context should be noted) as possible should be included in the OP. It would also be good for any future scan pages to mention video titles, timestamps, the name of the relevant missions, etc.

As for mission titles I'll leave that to the OP to dispense should he feel inclined, but the first set of missions is the Alchemical Gambler Dante mission set which I've already linked in this post. The second set, @SuperSonicTL will provide at his leisure.

I had actually given the name of the chapter in the OP. Take a closer look:

we came across another chapter called "Charging Volts" where Dante came across yet another world thanks to Broken gear's time travelling capabilities which allowed him to be free from the shackles of time that Helfilth casted on him. Here, we got more context about how Helfilth has disrupted every timeline within the multiverse.

Here is the link of the chapter just in case (I've time-stamped it as well). Also, I kindly request that we should stop discussing from this point on. It's usually because Mods sees alot of messages from the tier based threads and get bad vibes out of it which could possibly leads them to ignore it. Moreover, I wish to make things as simple as possible for the readers in question here. Thanks in advance for understanding.

 

[Follow_Doctor_Freeman]

Ah, ok, I was thrown off because I'd searched that DannyB The PlatinumG channel, the one linked as a source for that other mission, for "Charging Voltage mission" and got some unrelated thing with that name in the search results. I guess this is so new that some longplay archive channels for the game haven't gotten to it yet; wow, even the source for your screenshot about Hellfilth having "disrupted every timeline" was uploaded like a few hours this thread was made. It's legit, just no wonder I hadn't heard of this before. But yeah, this is why it's best to link these things in the OP. That helps make things simple for the readers.

I went ahead and watched those other two chapters in that Charging Voltage substory that PunchYodHa uploaded; DMC5 Dante timeline-hops & fights alts of characters Hellfilth throws in his way in realms that seem to be of her making. Also another quote from Dante saying he's gotta "save the world" from her, so more good T2 evidence & nothing outright against 2-A, collaborating if anything, methinks.

Although, is this story still ongoing? As of today (9/9/25), there's still a bit of a cliffhanger judging by the last video uploaded by that archive channel just a few hours ago. I'm sure I'm not the only one who'd like to know the whole story before making any calls with certainty.

Also, I kindly request that we should stop discussing from this point on. It's usually because Mods sees alot of messages from the tier based threads and get bad vibes out of it which could possibly leads them to ignore it. Moreover, I wish to make things as simple as possible for the readers in question here. Thanks in advance for understanding.

"Stop discussing"? What a strange thing to say. Why bother making a discussion thread if we don't discuss? What we're doing here is making sure we've got the whole story & putting that info through some scrutiny as far as powerscaling assessments go. Then we can recap for those recently joining the thread. If you care so much about "bad vibes" then just make your OP more waterproof and/or answer questions instead of telling people -- including the knowledgeable (on everything sans this mobile game) member who did the most to make DMC universal in the first place -- to stop asking questions.

 

[SuperSonicTL]

Although, is this story still ongoing? As of today (9/9/25), there's still a bit of a cliffhanger judging by the last video uploaded by that archive channel just a few hours ago. I'm sure I'm not the only one who'd like to know the whole story before making any calls with certainty.

This video seems to be posted late. I finished the story the moment it came out. With each new unit released, their comes a three part story with it. For now, we have no clue when the next one gonna be released.

Also, to answer your question, yes. It is still on-going.

"Stop discussing"? What a strange thing to say. Why bother making a discussion thread if we don't discuss? What we're doing here is making sure we've got the whole story & putting that info through some scrutiny as far as powerscaling assessments go. Then we can recap for those recently joining the thread. If you care so much about "bad vibes" then just make your OP more waterproof and/or answer questions instead of telling people -- including the knowledgeable (on everything sans this mobile game) member who did the most to make DMC universal in the first place -- to stop asking questions.

I think we’ve covered most of the important points already. I noticed you and Unoriginal have gone into a lot of detail which is great. I just feel like it might be best if we avoid going in circles or repeating the same points too much. Don’t get me wrong, I’m all for discussion—it's just I want to make sure it stays fresh and productive.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Now this is looking like more elaborately detailed reasons for existing infinite number of universes. I can support 2-A via reasons in the OP.

 

[Follow_Doctor_Freeman]

Now this is looking like more elaborately detailed reasons for existing infinite number of universes. I can support 2-A via reasons in the OP.

Just 2-A cosmology (which I think is pretty much beyond dispute at this point) or do you think there's enough to go on by now to apply to stats in general?

To recap, it might be an Environmental Destruction/prep-time thing Hellfilth does from her meddling with timelines by kleptomaniacally displacing stuff from them. But her quote about having "disrupted every timeline" (with where they are during that conversation possibly being yet another patchwork realm of her making as opposed to a timeline in the main multiverse?) seems to suggest being able to directly influence the entire 2-A multiverse in some way or another, and her being nonplussed about "All of time and space" collapsing -- such an all-catching term makes me inclined to think she was referring to more than just the realm of her creation they were in at the moment -- and being described as "wandering beyond time and space" (which could be read as unaffected by a 2-A collapse via Durability tanking it and/or Range sidestepping it if that's a thing) are noteworthy. The storyline is ongoing, but best I can tell, nothing so far contradicts 2-A if you think there's enough to make that call by now.

EDIT: I think this is the closest we have to an outright statement saying time paradoxes (as in Environmental Destruction) being the source of the peril, which arguably isn't quite a plain confirmation but might be considered enough to infer. Whether that's enough for an anti-feat or the rest is enough for a feat is up to you guys. I focus on just putting all the cards and possibilities on the table for you to weigh. Personally, I'd like to see what the whole storyline ends up looking like before making a call, but I don't know how quickly these little missions are being churned out.

 

[Ser_Hakim_Dayne]

DMC uses this theory to explain the existence of such parallel universes like the one where Dante gets sent to or the notorious DMC reboot which was stated to be a parallel universe and to have a parallel universe relationship ship with DMC and since we have evidence that there is an infinite amount of demons as well as the fact

Does this mean that there can be scaling between DMC and DmC like with DMC and Peak of Combat?

 

[Unoriginal777]

Just 2-A cosmology (which I think is pretty much beyond dispute at this point) or do you think there's enough to go on by now to apply to stats in general?

To recap, it might be an Environmental Destruction/prep-time thing Hellfilth does from her meddling with timelines by kleptomaniacally displacing stuff from them. But her quote about having "disrupted every timeline" (with where they are during that conversation possibly being yet another patchwork realm of her making as opposed to a timeline in the main multiverse?) seems to suggest being able to directly influence the entire 2-A multiverse in some way or another, and her being nonplussed about "All of time and space" collapsing -- such an all-catching term makes me inclined to think she was referring to more than just the realm of her creation they were in at the moment -- and being described as "wandering beyond time and space" (which could be read as unaffected by a 2-A collapse via Durability tanking it and/or Range sidestepping it if that's a thing) are noteworthy. The storyline is ongoing, but best I can tell, nothing so far contradicts 2-A if you think there's enough to make that call by now.

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EDIT: I think this is the closest we have to an outright statement saying time paradoxes (as in Environmental Destruction) being the source of the peril, which arguably isn't quite a plain confirmation but might be considered enough to infer. Whether that's enough for an anti-feat or the rest is enough for a feat is up to you guys. I focus on just putting all the cards and possibilities on the table for you to weigh. Personally, I'd like to see what the whole storyline ends up looking like before making a call, but I don't know how quickly these little missions are being churned out.

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Also to recap for the cause of the multiverse destabilization effect, Hellfilth as stated above has been rearranging time and space across a multiverse scope using his Demonic energy. There is no sweet spot area in any continuum he is touching or has been proven to be touching and if you state there is you will need to provide evidence via Hitchens Razor. This goes especially given DMC is a series where paradoxes happen pretty readily and the timeline goes just swell with no threat of collapse. Furthermore, it's never been stated he/she's specifically grabbing simple items alone and placing them in the wrong timelines being the cause of the collapse given that Volume 2 presents that this alone would not cause such a destabilizing effect in existence for even a single timeline, let alone an entire multiverse. Rather what he has been doing or stated to be doing is affecting the time and space structure of literally every single timeline by directly rearranging every piece of its spatial temporal structure simultaneously via a UES that scales everything to physical stats as has been said to plainly at this point in previous comments. I would also like to reiterate that again an environmental destruction argument would be a complete refusal to acknowledge the necessities imposed by the UES of DMC which are rather strict.

 

[Unoriginal777]

Now this is looking like more elaborately detailed reasons for existing infinite number of universes. I can support 2-A via reasons in the OP.

To clarify do you mean 2-A via the scaling of the Hellfilth character and the cosmology?

 

[SuperSonicTL]

Since I've got some free time now, I wish to make it very clear that why reasons like "paradox" or "chain reaction" is not a viable option within the arguments:

1. During the events of Devil May Cry 2, the Demon Energy that was leaked into Human World after Argosax's awakening was soo severe that it was causing intense space-time loops and stopping the very hands of time itself—to the point paths converged to infinite circles and you need to literally open a portal to past and future in order to escape it. Even caused "literal paradox" by throwing enemies from the past who died into future where they were killed "again". Yet, timeline was still functioning and Multiverse prevailed.
2. In Novels, Beastheads teleported both Dante and Beryl into alternate timeline. This is the place where Dante killed Void Mundus, an entity who lacked the flow of time and has the ability to rule over all of creation. Moreover, when Dante killed Mundus & the timeline got nuked as a result, the original timeline was still intact where they were pulled from, let alone the multiverse.
3. Broken gear (before Helfilth pulled his space and time collapse card) was already collecting people from past and future to defeat Helfilth. Yet again, we see that the multiverse is fine before Helfilth arrived.
4. Demon World has a dimension called infinity Nirvana where time resets every time one fails to finish the stage in the designated time. I say it again, no destabilization occurred whatsoever.

So my point is, there is a lot of proof that the timelines are stable enough to sustain their integrity in the face of all chaos that ensue within them. I hope this put the final nail in the coffin for any remaining concerns.

 

[Random-Helper323]

I was asked to ping some staff here.

@Planck69 @Elizhaa @ActuallySpaceMan42 @Vietthai96 @Dalesean027 @Emirp sumitpo @KingTempest @LordGriffin1000 @Maverick_Zero_X @Theglassman12 @UchihaSlayer96 @TISSG7Redgrave

Apparently the issue is twofold: that the cosmology as a whole contains infinite timelines is part one, and that Hellfilth (wow, a name like that sounds like really bad BO...) was causing it all to collapse is part two.

 

[Vietthai96]

Alright, many issues with this

1. Where is the quantum thing come from?
2. The part DmC is a parallel world to DMC was said by a site with no source, where is the official source?, because the site just said a bunch theory thing than actual proof, and iirc DmC is a reboot, a total reimagination of the original DMC, Literal Angel was never a thing in original DMC for example
3. What if part is fine, but why infinite demons and infinite sized demon realm = infinite timelines?, don't tell me you think there are infinite possibilities because there are infinite demons and each demon can produce a what-if, and multiplies them to infinite amount? If thay is the reason, i disagree

 

[Random-Helper323]

I did think the OP had a lot of unnecessary added stuff which makes it hard to read it all.

At its core, the parallel timelines seems to be due to the typical infinite what-ifs thing due to decisions. The Hellfilth thing seems to be due to causing it all to collapse.

 

[SuperSonicTL]

1. Where is the quantum thing come from?

That was just a basic description of MWI...

2. The part DmC is a parallel world to DMC was said by a site with no source, where is the official source?, because the site just said a bunch theory thing than actual proof, and iirc DmC is a reboot, a total reimagination of the original DMC, Literal Angel was never a thing in original DMC for example

I believe you forgot to read this:

3. What if part is fine, but why infinite demons and infinite sized demon realm = infinite timelines?, don't tell me you think there are infinite possibilities because there are infinite demons and each demon can produce a what-if, and multiplies them to infinite amount? If thay is the reason, i disagree

That's basic logic. Even admin @Planck69 agreed with this interpretation iirc.