Attack On Titan Massive AP & Speed Revision

[DaReaperMan]

According to this:
"Top user power provided is 150W (75W in the impact portion), but the power absorbed during recovery peaks at 250W (200W from the impact portion). This power has to be primarily absorbed from the wrist."
So energy delivered in a cut is indeed absorbed by the user's wrist. You don't see the tier 9 durability people get their bones evaporated from their tier 7 sword swing. It's almost like the energy of the swords is also tier 9 but because it's concentrated due to the extreme sharpness, it can do damage to the Titans.

How many swords have you made in your life? How many knives? Because this is for the kinetic energy of swinging a weapon against something hard, not cutting through it easier than a bad yo mama joke. It's not even for the weight AoT's swords are lmfao!

I'm not saying they shouldn't dull at all. Just that they shouldn't be able to cut the 9 Titans who are supposedly thousands of times more durable than the things that these blades dull and even break on. And it's not like they do hundreds or even tens of cuts with these blades before they dull. You'll see them kill 2-3 Titans and then discard the blade because it became too dull or literally snapped in half.

Yeah, that be their point, they're shitty blades with one function and designed to be replaceable. Like I said, sharpness is at minimum microscopic, cutting things WILL dull the edge, and cutting things swinging at five times the speed of sound will obliterate it IRL. But this is not IRL, and this is Fiction, and we can tell the laws of physics to go **** themselves!

Yes but they're also described as flexible. You can see it in the scan I sent in the above response to Weekly. And again my point isn't just that it dulls and breaks on regular Titans. It's that along with doing that it can also somehow cut through the 9 Titans (apparently thousands of times more durable) with the same ease. It's like cutting cardboard with a sword which dulls it and then cutting steel with the same kind of sword.

...Yeah, if you're swinging a blade at several times the speed of sound, that ****** WILL dull on even soft flesh. It's almost like more speed means the more the molecules of the edge are interacting with things faster means bye bye sharpness, huh?

I get that and that's what I'm saying. It cuts through Titans because of piercing damage. What I don't get is why that piercing damage deserves an AP rating, the energy output isn't greater than Tier 9 so why give a separate rating? Especially for cutting Titans which are also shown to be damaged by other things with relatively low energy but also low surface area like cannon shots consistently.

Unless you are giving it durability negation ala Gazef Stronoff, no, a sword that cuts a tier 7 can be rated as tier 7. If you need more on the profiles, write up an explanation in Standard Equipment, Weaknesses, or a Note, explaining that the blades can only do this shit a few times before they dull and snap.

 

[Huzy]

Because this is for the kinetic energy of swinging a weapon against something hard, not cutting through it easier than a bad yo mama joke. It's not even for the weight AoT's swords are lmfao!

Of course it's not for the weight. And they do use them against something hard.(Armoured Titan). It causes the blade to snap but their own hand is perfectly fine. The general point is when you make a cut, the energy is transferred back into your wrist. It doesn't really do anything because it's like 10 joules or something normally but here we're literally talking kilotons worth of energy. If they were literally outputting tier 7 worth of energy like the page implies instead of the Titans just being ass against piercing damage, they wouldn't have arms remaining.

Yeah, that be their point, they're shitty blades with one function and designed to be replaceable. Like I said, sharpness is at minimum microscopic, cutting things WILL dull the edge, and cutting things swinging at five times the speed of sound will obliterate it IRL. But this is not IRL, and this is Fiction, and we can tell the laws of physics to go **** themselves!

I don't really understand how this answers my question. If they're dulling on random fodders, then they should do nothing to the things thousands of times more durable. All the stuff I've seen screams "Titans are ass against super sharp stuff!" rather than "super badass tier 7 swords!"

Yeah, if you're swinging a blade at several times the speed of sound, that ****** WILL dull on even soft flesh. It's almost like more speed means the more the molecules of the edge are interacting with things faster means bye bye sharpness, huh?

Ok but they're also swinging it at the same speed at something 1000 times more durable... How are they still intact?

Unless you are giving it durability negation ala Gazef Stronoff, no, a sword that cuts a tier 7 can be rated as tier 7. If you need more on the profiles, write up an explanation in Standard Equipment, Weaknesses, or a Note, explaining that the blades can only do this shit a few times before they dull and snap.

Well it should really be a weakness noted on Titan pages. Not AP. Titans are being cut because they're consistently bad against things with relatively low surface areas (which is shown in the album I sent above) and a decently high energy density (around tier 9-8), so why are the blades being called Tier 7 instead of it just being another case of the same thing?

 

[DaReaperMan]

Of course it's not for the weight. And they do use them against something hard.(Armoured Titan). It causes the blade to snap but their own hand is perfectly fine. The general point is when you make a cut, the energy is transferred back into your wrist. It doesn't really do anything because it's like 10 joules or something normally but here we're literally talking kilotons worth of energy. If they were literally outputting tier 7 worth of energy like the page implies instead of the Titans just being ass against piercing damage, they wouldn't have arms remaining.

It's called fiction. Like, try to make sense of Cyborg's 1 million decibel beam being used in space. Ya can't.

I don't really understand how this answers my question. If they're dulling on random fodders, then they should do nothing to the things thousands of times more durable. All the stuff I've seen screams "Titans are ass against super sharp stuff!" rather than "super badass tier 7 swords!"

Speed, sharpness, and good ol' fiction. If it's not a STATED weakness of the Titans, just scale the damn blades to tier 7 or whatever.

Ok but they're also swinging it at the same speed at something 1000 times more durable... How are they still intact?

Because Sharpness is on a microscopic level minimum. Usually Atomic for hyper sharp blades like this. Like, my brother in Sigmar, do you even understand how low that goes?

Well it should really be a weakness noted on Titan pages. Not AP. Titans are being cut because they're consistently bad against things with relatively low surface areas (which is shown in the album I sent above) and a decently high energy density (around tier 9-8), so why are the blades being called Tier 7 instead of it just being another case of the same thing?

If it's not stated, it's not a weakness.

 

[Huzy]

It's called fiction. Like, try to make sense of Cyborg's 1 million decibel beam being used in space. Ya can't.

We can make sense of it by saying it's piercing damage. Scaling the swords to the 9 Titans only opens up more holes than answers.

Speed, sharpness, and good ol' fiction. If it's not a STATED weakness of the Titans, just scale the damn blades to tier 7 or whatever.

I don't really see why it needs to be stated. We see this with other weapons as well like cannons and guns. This is just putting two and two together.

Because Sharpness is on a microscopic level minimum. Usually Atomic for hyper sharp blades like this. Like, my brother in Sigmar, do you even understand how low that goes?

I mean in real life if I use my box cutter on steel or concrete, it's just going to bounce off if not snap. I don't see why this situation is any different from that in a general sense.

If it's not stated, it's not a weakness.

We can just observe it instead of it being stated.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Because AP is your energy output. You aren't outputting more energy because of lower surface area. It's just more concentrated. Unless the swords themselves are physically outputting tier 7 energy, they can't be tier 7.

They cut being with tier 7 durability, they have tier 7 AP via cutting power, its as simple as that. Im not sure how this is so hard to understand.

It doesn't say they're brittle. It literally says they're tough and only break when the user wants them to (because it's designed to break there). Yes the blade dulls rapidly on Titan skin, I haven't disputed that. So if it dulls rapidly on normal Titan skin, how will it cut something that's over a thousand times more durable?? How is this point not getting across? It's very simple.

Reaper already explained this better than me.

That literally makes no sense. Where does the tier 7 cutting force go? They're not tier 7 anything. They're just super sharp. The same energy concentrated into a much smaller surface area does more damage. It's not a greater amount of energy.

Youve just answered your own question. You dont need to put an absurd amount of energy into it, the fact that the blades are thin and extremely sharp is what allows them to have tier 7 cutting power.

Are you telling me that meat dulls the edge of a blade at the same rate as cardboard? That makes no physical sense. Flesh is softer and much less abrasive than cardboard. By all means a cardboard would do a lot more damage to the edge of a blade than meat.

Genuinely yes, if not moreso.

Huh? Eren's arm literally got obliterated by that cannon. The only reason I didn't put it in the album is because you'd say exactly what you've just said "half formed body" (even though that really shouldn't make any major difference to its durability). Armoured Titan can tank old cannons because it's wearing armour and those aren't nearly as fast or piercing (because they're big round balls instead of being bullets) as the 100 mm ones. It's not a contradiction at all. You do know "armour piercing" ammunition is a thing that exists IRL and it doesn't have the capability of unleashing kilotons worth of energy? Unless you're proposing humanity in the AoT universe has learned how to pack the energy of a small nuke into a 100 mm bullet despite relying on dropping oil barrels for air bombardment at the same time.

Armor piercing rounds. Are designed. To pierce. Armor. They dont need to release kilotons worth of energy because theyre not entirely kinetic munitions, theyre piercing munitions, designed to pierce through materials too durable for normal kinetic rounds to get through.

What im starting to understand here is that you are under the assumption that the swords being tier 7 means the characters are somehow hitting with tier 7 levels of energy. They arent. No one is arguing that they are.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Of course it's not for the weight. And they do use them against something hard.(Armoured Titan). It causes the blade to snap but their own hand is perfectly fine. The general point is when you make a cut, the energy is transferred back into your wrist. It doesn't really do anything because it's like 10 joules or something normally but here we're literally talking kilotons worth of energy. If they were literally outputting tier 7 worth of energy like the page implies instead of the Titans just being ass against piercing damage, they wouldn't have arms remaining.

The blades literally have break points for this exact reason. Theyre designed to be easy to break off at specific parts so there is always a razor edge at the cutting point of the blade, and then it can be disposed of when its used up. A sharp enough blade being used to cut a material that is softer than the blade itself will not transfer energy to the user.

 

[Huzy]

They cut being with tier 7 durability, they have tier 7 AP via cutting power, its as simple as that. Im not sure how this is so hard to understand.

They don't output kilotons of energy. So they're not tier 7. Just like bugs aren't human level for being able to cut humans. Unless they are on this wiki. In which case that's still a stupid oversimplification.

Regardless, you haven't answered why the swords cutting them is any different from them being hurt and cut by other things like cannons and arrow heads and isn't just a Titan "weakness" (more like basic physics but whatever) in general.

Reaper already explained this better than me.

I replied.

Youve just answered your own question. You dont need to put an absurd amount of energy into it, the fact that the blades are thin and extremely sharp is what allows them to have tier 7 cutting power.

No.... Just because they can cut Titans doesn't mean they're going to be able to cut people who have Tier 7 durability over much smaller surface areas. For example if a human character tanks a tier 7 punch, that's way more energy/m² than anything any Titan takes in AoT. The Titans literally get damaged by Tier 9 stuff when the energy is concentrated. The swords aren't anything different.

Genuinely yes, if not moreso.

I'll need a source for that beyond anecdotes.

Armor piercing rounds. Are designed. To pierce. Armor. They dont need to release kilotons worth of energy because theyre not entirely kinetic munitions, theyre piercing munitions, designed to pierce through materials too durable for normal kinetic rounds to get through.

What im starting to understand here is that you are under the assumption that the swords being tier 7 means the characters are somehow hitting with tier 7 levels of energy. They arent. No one is arguing that they are.

Yes they do it by concentrating energy exactly like swords. They don't have to be tier 7, just like the swords.

Because that's literally what it's going to be treated as in VS matches. Regardless of the character, if their durability is below the Titans' durability (which is spread over a very very large surface area), it's going to be said that the blades will cut clean through. Even if that makes no logical or physical sense. In reality though, it's just concentrated tier 9 energy that the Titans can't cope with because they're bad against concentrated energy.

The blades literally have break points for this exact reason. Theyre designed to be easy to break off at specific parts so there is always a razor edge at the cutting point of the blade, and then it can be disposed of when its used up. A sharp enough blade being used to cut a material that is softer than the blade itself will not transfer energy to the user.

Why will it not transfer energy to the user? Show me a source. I already showed you mine which concludes a significant portion of the total energy in a cut is absorbed by the user's wrist.

 

[DaReaperMan]

Your inventing weaknesses, inventing physics, forgetting how a blade works when talking to a chef and a bladesmith, and are overall all over the place arguing this crap. Does N'zoth have a weakness against piercing damage now? Wrathion is not even CLOSE to an Old God in WoW scaling, and yet he managed to damage it with Xal'atath the dagger!

Big number bad and should be small isn't always the case. You're better off attacking the tier itself, not the blades' scaling.

 

[Huzy]

Your inventing weaknesses, inventing physics, forgetting how a blade works

Using my eyes isn't inventing weaknesses. The Titans do consistently (literally 100% of the time) get damaged by other things with relatively low energy but also low surface area. I am not inventing any physics. Nor am I forgetting how blades work. Blades work by concentrating force into a small surface area to cut things which is why they can cut these Titans despite not having force on par with the Titans themselves. You haven't explained or answered literally anything properly except saying "it's fiction".

And I don't care about WoW scaling. I've never played it and don't plan on playing it.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Using my eyes isn't inventing weaknesses. The Titans do consistently (literally 100% of the time) get damaged by other things with relatively low energy but also low surface area. I am not inventing any physics. Nor am I forgetting how blades work. Blades work by concentrating force into a small surface area to cut things which is why they can cut these Titans despite not having force on par with the Titans themselves. You haven't explained or answered literally anything properly except saying "it's fiction".

And I don't care about WoW scaling. I've never played it and don't plan on playing it.

Pure Titans get damaged, hence why they're lower in tier, not the Shifters, which the blades can cut.

You should care, you're effectively arguing against a wiki-wide standard for scaling bladed weapons. You would have to make a site-wide crt to change this standard if you disagree with it, because this is how we treat ALL bladed weapons regardless of verse.

 

[Huzy]

Pure Titans get damaged, hence why they're lower in tier, not the Shifters, which the blades can cut.

You should care, you're effectively arguing against a wiki-wide standard for scaling bladed weapons. You would have to make a site-wide crt to change this standard if you disagree with it, because this is how we treat ALL bladed weapons regardless of verse.

So you're just going to ignore the album I made where only the shifters are getting damaged by these?

In this case, regardless of the standard, you'd have to take a look at the context, which supports this being a Titan weakness rather than the Blades being strong.

 

[Doggo]

This is getting nowhere, I lean with Weekly and Reaper anyway.


We will reach 10 pages at this point

 

[WeeklyBattles]

This is getting nowhere, I lean with Weekly and Reaper anyway.

Oh btw now that things have been more sorted out you can mark me down as an agree with the rest of the changes

Maybe try to get some staff in here? All we need at this point is one or two agreements and it'll be good.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

So you're just going to ignore the album I made where only the shifters are getting damaged by these?

In this case, regardless of the standard, you'd have to take a look at the context, which supports this being a Titan weakness rather than the Blades being strong.

Taking damage is not a weakness, the damage is an inherent property of the weapon being used.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Was there already a CRT for anime canon being main canon? If not, that thread should be made first before this CRT continues (Even if it's blatant, threads about canonicity have to be made and accepted before being applied)

Attack on Titan - Canon Adjustment and Clarifications

Originally discussed here. So, I swear I remember this being discussed years and years ago bu I guess it was never officially applied, so better late than never I guess. With the completion of the Attack on Titan anime, it should be noted that the anime version of the story is considered the...

vsbattles.com

 

[Lilybitdun]

I'm not even going to humor the blades counting as dura neg or slashing weapons for some reason being a weakness considering it goes against the entire way swords are scaled across the site

If they actually have feats on this level fine. But the science book scaling is wrong. The book is using a simple square-cube law calculation which posits that the volume (and thus mass) of an object increases by the cube of its length. However the method is inapplicable because Titans in AoT are unexpectedly light for their size according to Hange in Chapter 20. So using the human reference mass of 80 kg at 170 cm doesn't work in this case. We can easily verify that this is the method that is likely being used by doing the calculations with the square-cube law ourselves using their value of 80 kg at 170 cm.

Titan Mass = (Titan Height / Human Height)^3 * Human Mass
15 m Titan = (15 m / 170 cm)^3 * 80 kg = 54,956.2386 kilograms
7 m Titan = (7 m / 170 cm)^3 * 80 kg = 5,585.18217 kilograms
4 m Titan = (4 m / 170 cm)^3 * 80 kg = 1,042.13312 kilograms

As you can see all of these values (rounded off) are used in the book as the weight. Therefore the book is inapplicable in this case since the method doesn't apply to the show. You'd have to somehow find the actual density of a Titan for it to be useable.

The book has Hange's statement of Titans being light while still having the weight chart for Titans

Unless the guidebook is contradicting itself, the weight chart must be how heavy they are when factoring in their lightness, considering it's saying "Extremely low relative to size." it's not saying a Titan needs to be as light as feather
We see how Reiner is struggling to lift an alive Titan that's only human sized, whose ranked Top 2 of the Training Corp's Top 10

Unless we're saying Hange is casually kicking around and lifting weights that Reiner is struggling with, them getting lighter after death is completely plausible

Funnily enough this is also brought up in the book. Its explained that the reason that Titans are only 'light' when they die is due to them instantly beginning the process of flash vaporization at the moment of death. Titans being lightweight while alive would effectively break the story as a whole, them shaking the ground while walking and running, destroying buildings and other stone structures by falling on them, and crushing 80% of the world underfoot during the Rumbling would be physically impossible if they were, as Hange put it 'as light as a feather when they're dead', while alive.

Still waiting to see this scan of the book explanation btw, but the examples support them still having a decent amount of weight

Let me clarify somethings about these multipliers. The book makes no difference between a 15 m Titan and Eren's Titan. Eren's punch is not 9 times the "AP" of a 15 m Titan. The 729 times value is the muscle FORCE, not energy or power. We can see this is the case because they multiply this value by distance (which is 9 times more than normal due to the Titan being 9 times talller) to get energy. Energy = Force * Distance, not Power * Distance. So "power" was most likely a localisation error.

They are explicitly using force here to mean the power of a punch
"..Or 6561 times the energy of a human punch!"
"Eren's fist would also receive nearly 81 times the damage a human fist takes when punching another human."
"The reason their heads go flying and their hands are destroyed from a punch is because the energy coming from a 15-meter Titan's full-strength punch is unimaginably powerful."
replacing energy with force in these statements would not change the meaning of it talking about the power of a punch

 

[Lilybitdun]

Updated the sandbox, would like to hear staff opinions

 

[Lilybitdun]

Attack on Titan: Colossus Titan Falls and Explodes Recalc

vsbattles.fandom.com

Did a recalc of the contended feat, got 9-A via explosion damage with 8-A+ via vaporization damage

Which...honestly makes sense?

nitpick but I don't like how the piece of wall that's measured in the first pic is one of the ones curved away from the POV. Would make more sense to get the height and width from the one that's directly facing the POV next to the hole. Also I'm still iffy about the crater being made from just one blast when it seems more portrayed as a continual burst of steam
Not sure about measuring the volume as a hemisphere either as that implies the depth = the radius which visually doesn't seem to be the case. I would recommend either using the formula for crater depth from this https://vsbattles.com/threads/depth-of-craters-formed-from-explosions.122747/ or measuring the depth via the nearby Titans

 

[Huzy]

The book has Hange's statement of Titans being light while still having the weight chart for Titans.

Unless the guidebook is contradicting itself, the weight chart must be how heavy they are when factoring in their lightness, considering it's saying "Extremely low relative to size." it's not saying a Titan needs to be as light as feather

It's not factoring in the lightness. I literally showed you the calculations that don't factor in lightness and they match up exactly with the book. If you think the book is using some other method please enlighten us. And again I never said it needs to be as light as a feather. I am not sure where that keeps popping up from.

Unless we're saying Hange is casually kicking around and lifting weights that Reiner is struggling with, them getting lighter after death is completely plausible

There's no contradiction here. Reiner is lifting an entire Titan while it's biting down on his arm. Hange kicks a severed head and lifts a severed arm. They're not comparable at all in terms of the strength required. The majority of the mass in a human body is concentrated in the mid section. An arm and head are significantly lighter in comparison.

They are explicitly using force here to mean the power of a punch

No they're not. The 729 times figure is force. For punches they use energy which is force times distance (basic highschool physics). The punch (in joules) is 6561 times that of a human. Their force (in newtons) is only 729 times. Your post assumes the punching energy of a "normal" Titan is being presented as 729 times of a human while the punching energy of Eren's Titan is 6561 times that of a human or 9 times the normal Titan. Which is wrong. Of course all of the figures are wrong to begin with because it assumes a human density Titan.

 

[Huzy]

Did a recalc of the contended feat, got 9-A via explosion damage with 8-A+ via vaporization damage

Huh? What indicates the ground was vaporised?

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Huh? What indicates the ground was vaporised?

The fact that its directly stated to have been vaporized

 

[Huzy]

The fact that its directly stated to have been vaporized

Where?

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Where?

This coupled with the Colossus Titan canonically releasing heat more than capable of vaporizing stone and water, means vaporization is 100% fine to use

 

[Huzy]

This coupled with the Colossus Titan canonically releasing heat more than capable of vaporizing stone and water, means vaporization is 100% fine to use

It's not saying that the ground got vaporized. It's saying the Colossal Titan itself got vaporized. It says nothing about the ground. And no, the science book saying that realistically it would release so much energy that in a 500 meter radius or whatever the everything would be destroyed doesn't mean much because it actually does not do that in the series itself.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

It's not saying that the ground got vaporized. It's saying the Colossal Titan itself got vaporized. It says nothing about the ground. And no, the science book saying that realistically it would release so much energy that in a 500 meter radius or whatever the everything would be destroyed doesn't mean much because it actually does not do that in the series itself.

Okay im sorry but can you come up with a single argument that doesnt amount to just 'nah I dont buy it so it must not be true'? Its becoming very annoying and contributes nothing to the conversation.

The guidebook says it releases that level of heat. It releases that level of heat. Dont like it? Email the writer and ask him to change it yourself.

 

[Huzy]

Okay im sorry but can you come up with a single argument that doesnt amount to just 'nah I dont buy it so it must not be true'? Its becoming very annoying and contributes nothing to the conversation.

The guidebook says it releases that level of heat. It releases that level of heat. Dont like it? Email the writer and ask him to change it yourself.

Can you yourself argue with anything from the source material instead of a guidebook written by some college dropout? That would be very much appreciated. Okay, now to your argument. The book itself says that three things would happen if an explosion of that magnitude were to occur. One, it would shatter all the concrete buildings or whatever in a 500 meter radius. Secondly, the explosion itself would be 5300 degrees Celsius in temperature. And three, wall rose would be breached and titans would stream through. Does any of that happen in the show? Let's examine number one. In number one, you should expect everything near it to be basically dust. Except that doesn't happen, and even the trees nearby are completely fine, let alone any concrete buildings. Two, the temperature. There are multiple soldiers nearby, and none of them receive anything other than mild burns that go away naturally. That is not what you'd expect from something that's hotter than the surface of the damn sun. Number three. The wall is not breached. The wall has received literally zero damage. There is nothing that happens to the wall. No titans breach it, they don't have to do an entire operation to clean that up. So the things described in the book just literally do not occur. If none of the effects predicted occur then why should it be used?

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Can you yourself argue with anything from the source material instead of a guidebook written by some college dropout? That would be very much appreciated. Okay, now to your argument. The book itself says that three things would happen if an explosion of that magnitude were to occur. One, it would shatter all the concrete buildings or whatever in a 500 meter radius. Secondly, the explosion itself would be 5300 degrees Celsius in temperature. And three, wall rose would be breached and titans would stream through. Does any of that happen in the show? Let's examine number one. In number one, you should expect everything near it to be basically dust. Except that doesn't happen, and even the trees nearby are completely fine, let alone any concrete buildings. Two, the temperature. There are multiple soldiers nearby, and none of them receive anything other than mild burns that go away naturally. That is not what you'd expect from something that's hotter than the surface of the damn sun. Number three. The wall is not breached. The wall has received literally zero damage. There is nothing that happens to the wall. No titans breach it, they don't have to do an entire operation to clean that up. So the things described in the book just literally do not occur. If none of the effects predicted occur then why should it be used?

Everything ive brought up is from the source material. Scans from the manga, scans from the anime, scans from the guidebooks. Doesnt matter that it didnt happen, it would have. Stuff like this is the entire reason why 'the author not doing math' is a thing.

It should be used because its a calculation from an official guidebook. If youre going to just be a contrarian then im going to kindly ask you to leave. This thread did not need to be 4+ pages long.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

nitpick but I don't like how the piece of wall that's measured in the first pic is one of the ones curved away from the POV. Would make more sense to get the height and width from the one that's directly facing the POV next to the hole.

I didnt use that one because part of the wall had been sheared off so the measurement wouldnt be as accurate

Also I'm still iffy about the crater being made from just one blast when it seems more portrayed as a continual burst of steam

Added, came out to High 8-C with the timeframe taken into account

Not sure about measuring the volume as a hemisphere either as that implies the depth = the radius which visually doesn't seem to be the case. I would recommend either using the formula for crater depth from this https://vsbattles.com/threads/depth-of-craters-formed-from-explosions.122747/ or measuring the depth via the nearby Titans

Went with the formula in the thread, measuring the crater depth is kinda impossible due to it being an overhead shot, knocked the result down a bit but still 8-A

 

[Huzy]

Doesnt matter that it didnt happen, it would have. Stuff like this is the entire reason why 'the author not doing math' is a thing.

Your current argument is literally just guidebook written by some random guy says so. There's no manga involved here. And the anime directly contradicts you because we see the steam blowing away solid chunks of the earth rather than evaporating them along with the entire Titan not being evaporated in the first place.

Not only that, the destruction isn't even instantaneous, we can see the steam blowing away rocks even as Reiner is grabbing Eren from his Titan.

Yes it would have if that much energy was actually released however it didn't so it doesn't matter. Yes the author clearly didn't do the math in this case, so why are you applying the math to his story? The math doesn't exist in the story, we're analysing the story, not theoretical math.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Your current argument is literally just guidebook written by some random guy says so. There's no manga involved here. And the anime directly contradicts you because we see the steam blowing away solid chunks of the earth rather than evaporating them along with the entire Titan not being evaporated in the first place.

That is how guidebooks work yes. Also are you not the same person who was arguing for taking a single offhanded comment about Titans being 'light' after death as a reason to disregard theoretical measured weights for them despite the idea of them being 'light' being contradicted by every scene we see the Titans in? Youre simultaneously contradicting yourself here and cherrypicking, using what is 'stated over what is shown' in one scene and what is 'shown over stated' in another.

Yes the author clearly didn't do the math in this case, so why are you applying the math to his story? The math doesn't exist in the story, we're analysing the story, not theoretical math.

...Because thats what this community is. Do you know where you are right now? Youve been here since 2020 and are just learning that we do this? This would now be the third wiki-wide standard youve argued against in this thread. You have a lot of site-wide CRTs to make my guy.

 

[Huzy]

Also are you not the same person who was arguing for taking a single offhanded comment about Titans being 'light' after death

Because thats what this community is. Do you know where you are right now?

No, the statement I used was present in the manga, along with the guidebook that I used being written by the author. You are using a guidebook that was written by some random college dropout who has not worked at all in any official capacity in the actual writing of Attack on Titan. The weights are from that guidebook too. Which I can't even verify if it is intended to work as a canonical supplement to the manga or if it's just theoretical stuff not meant to be taken as fact. These two guidebooks do not hold the same weight.

Secondly, if the calculation itself is contradicting the story of the manga, as in what actually happened in the manga, then no, that calculation does not get used. Even on your wiki, go to the kinetic energy standards page and see for yourself that if the kinetic energy feat does not correspond with the level of destruction shown in the actual source material, the KE calculation is ignored and instead the destruction itself is calculated.

 

[Lilybitdun]

I agree with Huzy, the temperature and destruction is referring to a complete biomass conversion which isn't happening in this scene as I've brought up before. I don't think vaporization can be assumed since we only see the destruction hours after it's made, any dust created would have already dispersed.

I see if the guidebook is canon or not is being discussed. I had assumed it's fine since it's been used for ODM values but if there's contention I think bringing it up The Science of Attack on Titan in the canonicity thread would be good

 

[Lilybitdun]

Bump

 

[WeeklyBattles]

In Vegas atm, will respond when I can

 

[Lilybitdun]

Bump

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Sorry, still in Vegas, will respond when i can

 

[WeeklyBattles]

As far as I understand, the anime being the primary canon isn't accepted yet on this wiki. So in that case you'd probably need to make a thread to get it accepted first before the anime version of the feat is usable. I don't think it'd be accepted because barring a direct "this is the definitive version" statement, it's unlikely the anime would get anything over a secondary canon rating.

The anime is now officially accepted as the primary canon on this wiki.

 

[Lilybitdun]

Bump
Is there any consensus about the validity of The Science of Attack on Titan guidebook?

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Bump
Is there any consensus about the validity of The Science of Attack on Titan guidebook?

The book is legit, but the interpretation of the falling feat wouldnt be useable anymore now that we take the anime as primary canon due to the colossal not entirely vaporizing itself when it fell in the anime

 

[Lilybitdun]

Just waiting for staff response then
There's a lot of pages, are there any votes I forgot to include?