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It was, got downgraded due to the wrong BAR value being used lol
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Attack On Titan Massive AP & Speed Revision
- Thread starter Lilybitdun
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I'm sharing this blog since it has several AP and speed calcs for AOT. Hypersonic and 7-A when?
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I'll look into this in a bit
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Its where I discovered your og calc lol
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Attack on Titan: Colossus Titan Falls and Explodes Recalc
vsbattles.fandom.com
Did a recalc of the contended feat, got 9-A via explosion damage with 8-A+ via vaporization damage
Which...honestly makes sense?
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Notable calcs from the blog:
https://imgur.com/a/U71lXGk
https://imgur.com/a/sK8LFlY
https://imgur.com/a/XqDUdep
https://imgur.com/a/U71lXGk
https://imgur.com/a/sK8LFlY
https://imgur.com/a/XqDUdep
Lilybitdun
She/Her- 2,414
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omfg didn't I say to talk about calc stuff in the aot discussion thread
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Hey mine is at least relevant to the discussion : T
Lilybitdun
She/Her- 2,414
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- Thread starter
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Sorry that I'm taking a while to respond, busy with some stuff. Response should be later this week
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No worries, hopefully that calc will be taken care of in the meantime
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Also made a small math error on that calc, its only Small town level, not Small town+
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Agree with not using the transformation explosion for physicals. Disagree with the new Small Town level feat being proposed as the feat itself doesn't happen in the manga (Bertolt does throw Reiner but there's no visible shockwave or earthquake that reaches upto the fort) plus there's no reason given in the calc as to why 4 psi should be used.
Disagree due to surface area of the blades being very low in relation to the Titans in question and with them acting as piercing damage rather than blunt force.
If they actually have feats on this level fine. But the science book scaling is wrong. The book is using a simple square-cube law calculation which posits that the volume (and thus mass) of an object increases by the cube of its length. However the method is inapplicable because Titans in AoT are unexpectedly light for their size according to Hange in Chapter 20. So using the human reference mass of 80 kg at 170 cm doesn't work in this case. We can easily verify that this is the method that is likely being used by doing the calculations with the square-cube law ourselves using their value of 80 kg at 170 cm.
Titan Mass = (Titan Height / Human Height)^3 * Human Mass
15 m Titan = (15 m / 170 cm)^3 * 80 kg = 54,956.2386 kilograms
7 m Titan = (7 m / 170 cm)^3 * 80 kg = 5,585.18217 kilograms
4 m Titan = (4 m / 170 cm)^3 * 80 kg = 1,042.13312 kilograms
As you can see all of these values (rounded off) are used in the book as the weight. Therefore the book is inapplicable in this case since the method doesn't apply to the show. You'd have to somehow find the actual density of a Titan for it to be useable.
Disagree. The main "multipliers" are all derived from the faulty square-cube scaling. The 729 times multiplier for the 15 m Titan is literally just 9³. It would've been 9² realistically but since that would result in insufficient muscle force to support the 55 ton weight of the Titan, the book posits the Titan muscle force increases in proportion with their weight which is 9³ rather than 9². Of course this would be fine if the weight itself wasn't wrong to begin with.
Let me clarify somethings about these multipliers. The book makes no difference between a 15 m Titan and Eren's Titan. Eren's punch is not 9 times the "AP" of a 15 m Titan. The 729 times value is the muscle FORCE, not energy or power. We can see this is the case because they multiply this value by distance (which is 9 times more than normal due to the Titan being 9 times talller) to get energy. Energy = Force * Distance, not Power * Distance. So "power" was most likely a localisation error.
The muscle force is multiplied by 9 to get the punch energy (AP) which is 6561 times the average human with the faulty square-cube scaling. This AP is both for Eren's 15 m Titan and a regular one.
The "average human" here is not the average AoT human with fan calcs. We can get a rough estimate of the punch energy of the average human according to this book from this line:
"In short, Eren would deal 81 times the damage a human punch would deal to another human! Now that's a strong punch! I'd rather not imagine the scene, but what kind of damage would this deal? If we calculated this using humans, that would mean 28 shot put shots flying into you at the speed of a punch."
So average human punch = KE of 28 shotputs/81
KE of 28 shotputs = 0.5 * ((7.26 kg) * 28) * ((10 (m / s))^2) = 10164 joules
Average Human Punch = 10164 joules / 81 = 125.48 joules (Athlete level)
15 m Titan/Eren AP = 125.48 joules * 6561 = 823284 joules (Wall level)
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Will respond to that in a bit but should clarify that that feat does in fact happen in the manga, look at the comments section of the blog. The anime being the defacto primary canon now according to the creator means that anime portrayals of feats take priority.
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What says the anime is the "primary canon"?
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Iseyama has explicitly stated that the anime is the official canon, and that he used the anime's production to fix things he thought went wrong in the manga.
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I would love to see this explicit statement.
Excellence616
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Isayama also oversees the anime production
XSOULOFCINDERX
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Yeah, that needs scans immediately because that's a massive change.
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I am actively trying to find the exact statement (theres tons of people even confirming that he said this but no one has posted a direct source, and i distinctly remember this even being discussed here years ago).
There is these:
You have been involved in the anime production for a little while, supervising the adaptation’s storyboards, and have been known for asking for changes to the story in the adaptation. Did you personally ask for anything for the final episode?
Yes. Absolutely. I checked the script, but the main thing was the storyboards. There were different things I suggested. When it comes down to it, it’s really the role of the production to make those decisions. But I wanted to at least give my input so that they could take those into account when they were making the final decisions.
Translated here
"It is actually a fortunate event that the series was made into an anime. I was really happy because I had the chance to amend any parts I held regrets for. Additionally, the anime quality was excellent - if the full score is 100, I would say that the animated version's score is 120. I also think it is alright to consider the anime version as the exact adaptation of the manga."
Interview with Hajime Isayama, creator of Attack on Titan: “Better to have memorable art, even memorably bad art, and stand out.”
Men’s culture magazine Brutus recently did a special issue on Attack on Titan that included a lengthy interview with the manga’s creator, Hajime Isayama, in which he talks about such to…
mangabrog.wordpress.com
–People are divided there: There are the people who manage to identify with Shinji and immerse themselves in the show, and the people who are turned off by him. Eren is a protagonist who actually develops, and a breath of fresh air in that sense. In creating his character, were you reacting against sekai-kei stories (i.e. stories in which relationship problems revolving around the protagonist turn out to bear directly upon the fate of the world)?
Isayama: Hard to say. In terms of making him a strong or weak character, I originally planned to make him weak, but I had no idea what he would be like on the inside. He’s a character I created because the story called for someone like him.
–A medium through which to explain the universe you’d made.
Isayama: You could say that. Eren is a character who I figured out as I went along. When the manga got adapted into an anime and I got to hear Eren’s voice, that helped me flesh him out, too. I mean, these Titans show up all of a sudden, and he’s not only unafraid, but decides to go kill them? That’s just not a realistic character. But then while he may say those things, you can hear a weakness in his voice actor’s voice, which makes it sound like he’s bluffing. I’ve started to like Eren as a character more and more ever since.
–Interesting — so the character came into focus for you from watching the anime adaptation?
Isayama: It did. Tetsuro Araki, the director, and Yuki Kaji, Eren’s voice actor, had a good approach to him. The anime’s impact on the manga is by no means small.
Theres also this interview where he confirms multiple times that he directly made changes to the anime to fix things he felt he did poorly in the manga.
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Which is why the AP would only apply to the blades and spears, not the characters themselves.
Funnily enough this is also brought up in the book. Its explained that the reason that Titans are only 'light' when they die is due to them instantly beginning the process of flash vaporization at the moment of death. Titans being lightweight while alive would effectively break the story as a whole, them shaking the ground while walking and running, destroying buildings and other stone structures by falling on them, and crushing 80% of the world underfoot during the Rumbling would be physically impossible if they were, as Hange put it 'as light as a feather when they're dead', while alive.
See above. The weight isnt faulty.
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No. Having a massively lower surface area in relation to the Titans means they don't need to overcome the energy they can tank spread over much larger surface areas. Besides do you know the type of story inconsistencies the swords being Small Town level or really anything near the shifters causes?
The swords get damaged if they're used on a few Titans which is why they carry spares. Titan durability is way lower than their AP. Titans are also capable of tearing other Titans apart. So Titan AP should at least be somewhere near the swords.
With this scaling the normal Titans themselves should be capable of easily breaking through the walls (the Colossal Titan kick was calced at City Block level, way lower than what the normal Titans would have with the new scaling logically and way more than what they themselves would need to break through considering their size), therefore the entire premise of the series is invalidated.
Not to mention these Titans can be damaged and killed with old ass cannons along with their entire population being wiped because a tree trunk was dropped on their heads over and over again.
I'll need to see that scan. Secondly, this would mean Hange is stupid and the book author knows more about the Titans than the character whose entire job is to do experiments on Titans. She's shown holding a freshly cut limb which couldn't have evaporated so much for it to be significant.
They don't need to be lightweight, just lighter than expected. Also since when does this wiki require fictional power showings to be "physically possible"? The destruction of the wall at the start of the series is physically impossible considering the Colossal Titan's leg weight and speed. Physically, it wouldn't output enough energy to blow up that wall even with human density.
Even if the weight isn't faulty, the CRT is using the values wrong. 15 m Titan AP is Wall level according to the values in the book.
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Thats why the swords would be the only thing that is tier 7, not the wielders.
Yes, the swords are sharp but brittle. This does not mean they arent tier 7 in cutting power.
So...tier 7. The current working tier for the durability of Shifters, most notably the Colossus Titan which was cut by these swords, is Small Town level.
Normal titans are only tier 9 to tier 8 in terms of feats and scaling, they dont scale to the Shifters. And it wouldnt break the story at all seeing as the Shifters needed to break through the walls only to let the Titans in, not to cause damage themselves.
See above. Pure Titans dont scale to Shifters, so them being injured by cannons isnt a disqualifier.
...Yes. The Omniscient writer of the story who knows the exact specifics of how Titans work would know more than the WW2 era field researcher who is doing trial and error experiments on subjects that are extremely rare to study in captivity due to the speed at which they decay when they die.
The problem with this train of thought is we are now getting into the realm of assumptions that directly contradict was is shown in the story. On this site we use standard density for tissue by default unless a specific value is stated. If you dont have that, then there's not a lot we can do without making a boatload of assumptions, especially when its specifically stated that they only get that light after death.
Since...always? Ive been on this site since 2016 and its literally always been this way. You talk about how swords being able to cut titans breaks the story yet the argument youre making would break it 10x harder if the Titans weighed next to nothing. Quite literally every scene involving them just wouldnt be possible.
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As far as I understand, the anime being the primary canon isn't accepted yet on this wiki. So in that case you'd probably need to make a thread to get it accepted first before the anime version of the feat is usable. I don't think it'd be accepted because barring a direct "this is the definitive version" statement, it's unlikely the anime would get anything over a secondary canon rating.
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The swords don't need to be tier 7 to cut them is what I'm trying to say. Bugs don't need to be human level to pierce our skin. And if it was Tier 7 or whatever energy at least a fraction would be transferred back into their arms, which would obliterate them.
Where is this stated? As far as I remember there's nothing that calls them brittle. If they can get chipped slicing tier 8 skin, they would get shattered instantly slashing tier 7 skin.
Tier 7 for normal Titans, yes. With the current scaling logic.
They would have to be somewhere near Tier 7 for their skins to be able to chip the tier 7 swords along with their AP being way higher than their durability. The story breaks because with the sword scaling, NORMAL Titans become tier 7. They wouldn't need the shifters to break the wall. They'd be doing that on their own.
The Colossals and Rodd's Titan both get damaged by cannons. It's 100% a disqualifier. In the first scan, one of them loses its arm to a cannon shot. In the 2nd one, you can see damage and the regeneration smoke on the parts where they got hit. In the 3rd and 4th, the cannons are literally making small craters in the 120 m Titan.
Which story did he write? The book is written by a university dropout cram school teacher. He isn't a writer on the series or the show. The character Hange would absolutely know more about the weight of the Titans than a guy making observations from the outside considering she can literally hold them to measure it. The argument relies on Hange being stupid and not factoring in the vaporisation which wouldn't even be that significant because she measures freshly cut limbs.
It's the exact opposite. We're told that the Titans are light(er) in the story through the Titan expert character. There is no scene after this that contradicts that information directly. The only argument against it is that the things we see aren't "physically possible" (which idk how valid that is because I haven't seen any numbers regarding it from the book or you). The series is full of physically impossible things. Like I said the primary instigating event of the series doesn't work at all physically speaking. The Colossal Titan's leg isn't big enough or fast enough to get that much energy output.
I've never said they weighed next to nothing just lighter than a human of the same size. The Hange line literally exists to explain why they can move around because realistically if they were just scaled up humans, their muscle strength wouldn't be enough to support them. Isayama isn't running calculations in his mind. He probably just thinks the Titans are heavy therefore they can crush people by stepping on them. I think what you need to do is get some numbers to show why the lower than human density Colossal Titans can't crush people with their weight while the human density ones can. I have a sneaking suspicion that even with human density, the weight isn't going to be enough because Isayama wasn't running calculations.
Also as far as physical possibilities go, Tier 7 swords that also somehow break after slicing Tier 8 things despite both being made of similar material, is far more physically impossible. It's like saying a sword would get dull after cutting 10 cubes of butter.
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On the subject of Titans being light. The Attack on Titan guidebook, which was written by Isayama according to the AoT wiki, repeats the information of them being extremely light for their size. I can't confirm whether the wiki is correct but this guidebook should take precedence over the science book anyhow.
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For some reason the scan didn't embed. Here it is anyhow (hopefully).
Lilybitdun
She/Her- 2,414
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- Thread starter
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Sorry for the inactivity but I'm back, I'll reply to everything in a bit
Lilybitdun
She/Her- 2,414
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- #109
Can we get a scan of this book statement?
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We've unironically accepted canon switches for less
Lilybitdun
She/Her- 2,414
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Was there already a CRT for anime canon being main canon? If not, that thread should be made first before this CRT continues (Even if it's blatant, threads about canonicity have to be made and accepted before being applied)
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I genuinely thought there was already, i distinctly remember this being discussed years ago. Feel free to make it, its a very blatant change that shouldnt require much debate.
Lilybitdun
She/Her- 2,414
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You're going to have to make a Wiki-wide CRT for this then, because cutting weapons having a tier multiple levels higher than their wielders is how we currently tier things.
VS Battles Wiki
The VS Battles Wiki is the world's most comprehensive and popular index of statistics and powers for characters and items from all of popular fiction.
vsbattles.fandom.com
These blades consistently slash tier 7 skin. Thin, brittle blades being dulled with constant use is just how blades work.
Normal titans would not be tier 7.
No they wouldnt. IRL metal can be dulled by cutting paper and cardboard, does that make metal weak or paper more durable? No, it doesnt, its just how cutting things works. Blades get dull, especially single-bladed, hard and sharp but brittle and disposable blades like the ultrahard steel ones used by the Survey Corps
Cannons damaging Shifters is already an outlier seeing as cannons top at mid-Wall level.
Isayama. The guy who wrote Attack on Titan. Not the guy who wrote the science book.
Titans crushing buildings by falling and stepping on them immediately contradicts the idea that they are light. Titans having footsteps that shake the ground when they walk and run immediately contradicts the idea that they are light.
Because if they were any less dense it'd be a Wailord situation where the density would be so spread out that the Titans would literally be lighter than air.
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Im trying to avoid starting any major CRTs until september
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That is how swords work. No opinion on Tier 7, but if it's just cutting through it won't transfer any proper energy into the arms of those whom use it.
Essentially, the sharpness of a blade is microscopic, and preferably goes down to Atomic if you're precise, though that never lasts long. This Sharpness, due to being on a such a small scale, can be dulled by anything, from paper to flesh to dirt, this is the reason in a lot of media you see people regularly sharpen their blades unless it's magical. Blades can dull, and they can dull FAST.
A hard blade is good, but make it too hard and it shatters against something also hard, and it doesn't necessarily have to be as hard as it. Of course this is not mentioning the many little things that can go wrong such as microfractures or too much pressure in the hilt making the tang snap, but a blade with some flexibility can take hard swings better, because it disperses the Energy generated from hitting something easier.
Make it too flexible and it won't cut anything, make it too hard and it will shatter on the first few strikes. This is magnified significantly on thin blades, to the point where if you **** up at any point in the forging, quench, or heat treat, that ***** WILL shatter or snap. From what i know of AoT, they fall into the "Hard, thin, and replacable" category. They don't care about the quality of the work or making it last, it just has to go through that titan a few times before it dulls or shatters.
It's actually not uncommon for a sword to have higher AP than its durability simply because of piercing damage and how speed interacts with that. AoT characters swing those blades lightning fast and hard as ****, so yeah, they can be tier 8 and cut enough power to damage a tier 7.
Cutting a very long explanation with a TLDR: Weekly is not necessarily WRONG on this subject matter, even IRL, and in fiction weapons punching out of their wielder's weight class is not uncommon. see: Arthas, Ryūko, Wrathion, Ulthane, etc.
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This contradicts the durability page of this wiki.
"Extremely fine attacks such as with monomolecular wire or extremely sharp blades may effortlessly slice or pierce a character without much energy being applied so additional context should be investigated when rating the AP of somebody who primarily attacks via this method."
Guess what also consistently damages this Tier 7 skin. Cannons and guns. The blades are never stated to be brittle in the manga. Infact they're literally called flexible along with being hard. That basically goes against them being brittle. And they aren't dulled from "constant" use. Usually, they're used on 3-4 Titans at once before being dulled or broken.
(Imgur instantly deleted the first album so I had to use a shitty alternative, the images aren't ordered because it's obnoxiously hard to order them on imgpile)
Yes they would. There's literally no way their skin's durability (which their AP is significantly above) could chip or even break the Tier 7 swords in half just from 2-3 Titans being cut. If the 9 Titans' durability is really thousands of times greater than the normal ones, either the swords just wouldn't suffer any real damage from cutting a few Titans or they wouldn't be able to deal any damage to the 9 Titans. There's no logical version of this where they can simultaneously break cutting random fodders and still go through things thousands of times tougher without issue.
How many times do you have to cut cardboard before it becomes noticeably dull? Same with paper. Secondly, the cardboard comparison doesn't even work because cardboard is abrasive, meat is not. Thirdly, the blades in AoT don't only get dull, they can literally snap in half while cutting Titans. Show me a blade doing that with cardboard. Fourthly, show me a blade that gets significantly duller after cutting cardboard cutting something over a thousand times more durable than cardboard.
Or they're simply not capable of dealing with energy concentrated into a small surface area? Titans being immune to such conventional weapons would actually go against the story as the entire idea is that their reign is coming to an end as technology improves. And if you're going to dismiss these as outliers, why can't we dismiss the swords as outliers? "Consistent" can't be the answer because they're both equally consistent. There's not a single instance where a Titan just shrugs off the 100 mm armour piercing rounds. Reiner can tank cannons but only the old ones which are much slower and much bigger in their surface area.
Isayama never said the Titans are only light when checked because of evaporation. The only source (supposedly because you haven't sent the scan) that says this is the Science book. The AoT guidebook which apparently was written by Isayama repeats what Hange said.
Again with this "light" thing? I've never said they're light. Just light for their size. Stop trying to dismiss canonical facts by appealing to reality. A lot of stuff doesn't work physically speaking. I've already given you the example of the kick from the Colossal Titan. Hell, you're literally arguing for Tier 7 blades with Tier 9 users. Where is that Tier 7 energy coming from? The most real swords can do is concentrate the energy from the user into a small point. They don't magically increase the energy, it's just concentrated.
What? How can density (mass per unit volume) be "spread out"? No, they wouldn't become lighter than air. That would only happen if their density was lower than air. If their density was lower than a human's by x%, they would only be x% lighter than a scaled up human with the same volume. That's how density works.
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According to this:
"Top user power provided is 150W (75W in the impact portion), but the power absorbed during recovery peaks at 250W (200W from the impact portion). This power has to be primarily absorbed from the wrist."
So energy delivered in a cut is indeed absorbed by the user's wrist. You don't see the tier 9 durability people get their bones evaporated from their tier 7 sword swing. It's almost like the energy of the swords is also tier 9 but because it's concentrated due to the extreme sharpness, it can do damage to the Titans.
I'm not saying they shouldn't dull at all. Just that they shouldn't be able to cut the 9 Titans who are supposedly thousands of times more durable than the things that these blades dull and even break on. And it's not like they do hundreds or even tens of cuts with these blades before they dull. You'll see them kill 2-3 Titans and then discard the blade because it became too dull or literally snapped in half.
Yes but they're also described as flexible. You can see it in the scan I sent in the above response to Weekly. And again my point isn't just that it dulls and breaks on regular Titans. It's that along with doing that it can also somehow cut through the 9 Titans (apparently thousands of times more durable) with the same ease. It's like cutting cardboard with a sword which dulls it and then cutting steel with the same kind of sword.
I get that and that's what I'm saying. It cuts through Titans because of piercing damage. What I don't get is why that piercing damage deserves an AP rating, the energy output isn't greater than Tier 9 so why give a separate rating? Especially for cutting Titans which are also shown to be damaged by other things with relatively low energy but also low surface area like cannon shots consistently.
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How exactly does it contradict this? This is referencing a person physically scaling to cutting with a blade, not the AP of the blades themselves. No one is arguing making the humans in AoT tier 7, just the blades.
Funny, because it does actually say that they are brittle and dull rapidly.
The swords arent tier 7 in durability, just in cutting power. Reaper explained this very well in his post.
...
...Tell me youve never prepared meat before without telling me youve never prepared meat before...either that or i feel bad for whatever cutlery you own. Like Im not even joking when I say this comment genuinely stunlocked me for a good five minutes.
I just want you to understand something. You are currently arguing with a chef (me) and a swordsmith (reaper) about how swords and knives work. Which one of us would you prefer to explain how wrong this comment is?
Here is a dude snapping one with minimal pressure. Here's another. The blades are DESIGNED to be easy to break, its what the diagonal lines on them are, break lines.
Because we literally have shit like Eren's half-formed Titan body stopping a cannonball, the Armored Titan being undamaged by cannonballs, etc. that contradict this. Pure Titans are not tier 7, they are tier 9, them being harmed by cannonballs is not an outlier. And youve just answered your own question, they are ARMOR PIERCING, those rounds are designed to pierce armor that durable.
You keep using Hange stating in the manga that titans are 'as light as a feather' and then kicking a titan's head a dozen feet away like it weighed nothing as your argument. Even if you make the argument that a Titan's head weighs the same as a human head, roughly 10 lbs on average, she still wouldnt be able to punt it like a volleyball due to its weight. They arent 'light for their size', literally every scene outside of the singular instance of Hange examining freshly dead Titans shows them being the exact weight you would expect them to be for their size.
If all you did was scale up a human in volume to the size of a 15 meter Titan but keep the mass the same, the density would drop to the point of being lighter than air.
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Because AP is your energy output. You aren't outputting more energy because of lower surface area. It's just more concentrated. Unless the swords themselves are physically outputting tier 7 energy, they can't be tier 7.
It doesn't say they're brittle. It literally says they're tough and only break when the user wants them to (because it's designed to break there). Yes the blade dulls rapidly on Titan skin, I haven't disputed that. So if it dulls rapidly on normal Titan skin, how will it cut something that's over a thousand times more durable?? How is this point not getting across? It's very simple.
That literally makes no sense. Where does the tier 7 cutting force go? They're not tier 7 anything. They're just super sharp. The same energy concentrated into a much smaller surface area does more damage. It's not a greater amount of energy.
Are you telling me that meat dulls the edge of a blade at the same rate as cardboard? That makes no physical sense. Flesh is softer and much less abrasive than cardboard. By all means a cardboard would do a lot more damage to the edge of a blade than meat.
This is not what I asked for. I asked you to me a blade snapping while cutting something that would be considered easy to cut like cardboard. Not a dude snapping the blade on purpose by bending it in a way it's not supposed to bend.
And you didn't produce an example of the 2nd thing I asked you in that comment. You couldn't, obviously, because it's physically impossible.
Huh? Eren's arm literally got obliterated by that cannon. The only reason I didn't put it in the album is because you'd say exactly what you've just said "half formed body" (even though that really shouldn't make any major difference to its durability). Armoured Titan can tank old cannons because it's wearing armour and those aren't nearly as fast or piercing (because they're big round balls instead of being bullets) as the 100 mm ones. It's not a contradiction at all. You do know "armour piercing" ammunition is a thing that exists IRL and it doesn't have the capability of unleashing kilotons worth of energy? Unless you're proposing humanity in the AoT universe has learned how to pack the energy of a small nuke into a 100 mm bullet despite relying on dropping oil barrels for air bombardment at the same time.
She never says it's as light as a feather. Show me the numbers which make kicking that Titan's head that far impossible. She's not examining dead Titans. She's examining freshly cut limbs. And what weight is that exactly? How do you know them having human density would be enough to explain whatever we see? If it's not enough, then what? This statement is also repeated in the guidebook. Your source is "it's not realistic" and a science book written by some random guy.
Nobody said that. Their density is lower than a human's resulting in them being light for their size. They're not the same mass as a human. Also it wouldn't btw. They'd be slightly more dense than air but that's besides the point.
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