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Rule Violation Reports (New forum)
- Thread starter Antvasima
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Welcome back!
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Reporting @Chariot190 for toxicity (again).
I was contacted privately by several Demon Slayer supporters expressing that they felt bullied and demotivated due to his comments. He claims to have five mods and CGM's ready with some CRT, that he's "on their asses now", to "expect the worst", and that they better have backups ready or they're "******".
At one point, in response to someone simply pointing out a wiki policy, they reply that they "Was gonna make the DS downgrade a open CRT so everyone could comment but that shit is gonna be staff only now just for that." Their tone in general is also aggressive, for example, "Use your eyes, I shouldn't have to explain this to you."
In general, they're combative and seem to hold genuine spite against the verse and its supporters.
Exhibit A, Exhibit B, Exhibit C, Exhibit D, Exhibit E
The last time I was in contact with Chariot regarding their tone, they claimed ignorance and that they were just trying to be direct, and I was sympathetic since I know a lot of people struggle with tone in writing. I offered them a detailed analysis of things they were doing which came off as rude, and they agreed to hear it, but stopped responding after receiving it and seemingly hasn't improved or took any of my advice. Instead, they seem to regularly alienate our other members to the point I have now received many pleas from multiple unrelated users personally requesting something be done or expressing distress.
They've already been both warned and banned for this kind of thing before, and yet they are still either unable or unwilling to participate in a respectful and collaborative discussion without instigating some kind of drama or rudeness.
Since they were banned for a month before already, I think a logical follow-up would be three months.
I was contacted privately by several Demon Slayer supporters expressing that they felt bullied and demotivated due to his comments. He claims to have five mods and CGM's ready with some CRT, that he's "on their asses now", to "expect the worst", and that they better have backups ready or they're "******".
At one point, in response to someone simply pointing out a wiki policy, they reply that they "Was gonna make the DS downgrade a open CRT so everyone could comment but that shit is gonna be staff only now just for that." Their tone in general is also aggressive, for example, "Use your eyes, I shouldn't have to explain this to you."
In general, they're combative and seem to hold genuine spite against the verse and its supporters.
Exhibit A, Exhibit B, Exhibit C, Exhibit D, Exhibit E
The last time I was in contact with Chariot regarding their tone, they claimed ignorance and that they were just trying to be direct, and I was sympathetic since I know a lot of people struggle with tone in writing. I offered them a detailed analysis of things they were doing which came off as rude, and they agreed to hear it, but stopped responding after receiving it and seemingly hasn't improved or took any of my advice. Instead, they seem to regularly alienate our other members to the point I have now received many pleas from multiple unrelated users personally requesting something be done or expressing distress.
They've already been both warned and banned for this kind of thing before, and yet they are still either unable or unwilling to participate in a respectful and collaborative discussion without instigating some kind of drama or rudeness.
Since they were banned for a month before already, I think a logical follow-up would be three months.
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its not spite, we've been working and looking at all the stuff in detail and are planning a downgrade because there has been a lot of ratting in calcs and other bad stuff all around that's been passed across the board when it should not have, supporters have been aggressive so now he's making it now its being done. No spite at all just fixing bad shit across the board and dealing with other hostile characters.
Its not limited to calcs either, its abilities too so nothing here has been said out of spite, most of this is taken out of context anyways
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The revision itself may be perfectly valid, and I'm not claiming it's made out of spite. That's not really what this report is about.
We should generally strive to maintain a respectful and collaborative atmosphere, and I feel as if Chariot's behavior recently has done the opposite.
The supporters of a verse should be given a fair platform to argue their position and have a voice, not be threatened into "prostrating", which is the literal word Chariot used: "Gonna put his ass back at High 8-C where he belongs too if ya don't prostrate"
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Brother if you're gonna make this a point then at least look at how other people have been in the threads too or make it seem like the context matters
Literally everyone in the thread is clowning battle spirit for being fake as shit yet you single out chariot, mind you chariot is thanked right after that by other users because it IS ratty and should not have been passed
The same supports who have before this told chariot not to comment on their threads because his vote doesn't matter and tried to shut down other supporters when they started disagreeing with the threads (check the comment history here) hence his whole reasoning for now going to make staff thread going through everything because and saying they should prostate which in the context I don't see how that's out of the energy we've received on this
just him again saying he's writing a downgrade so if you're saying you aren't meaning spite then you can drop this too then since nothing here is report worthy
same deal here warning them to find valid alternatives since we are going to be making our thread which will affect almost every single calc in the verse since its almost all ratted out the ass
honestly there is nothing here worth reporting or even suggesting a 3 month ban
Baken384
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While Chariot does say some off hand stuff, what Dale says here is true, this isn't a thing Chariot originally started. It first started off with Me and some others complaining about Demon Slayer. He looked over it, and spent like an entire night looking at their calculations with the help of Dale to see what they can do about the calculations because they concluded that some calculations being used are wrong.
Most of Chariot's points are addressing the opposition with some snark in between, and is telling someone to prepare for a downgrade even report worthy to the point he has to be banned for 3 months? Some of the exhibits there such as B, and C is just him 95% talking about the calcs, and then the 5% He just says something about downgrades. In Exhibit D, he said he is gonna reread demonmid just to undo, is there anything wrong with that other than him saying Demonmid? This is no better than any member looking back at any calculation and just seeing the source material to see there is something wrong with the calc.
The only genuine one there is Exhibit E, which I could see taking too far. But all the others are just grasping for a report here. At best this is a warning, and at worst this is literally nothing burger, he has done nothing big ever since he was unbanned until we called him over to check out the Demon Slayer thread because he is a former CGM with experience on how to calc. Nothing more, nothing less.
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I would like to add that Chariot has been toxic beforehand like calling supporters such as "goons" here.
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Can't attest to the other stuff as I wasn't there, but I was in the Calc Group discussion and from what I saw, he handled himself courteously enough. And when Dale told him he was getting a bit aggresive and should back off, he did. Frankly, the other stuff just seems to be shitposting, and if that is an offense, which to be honest I don't think it should be, it should merit a warning not a ban.
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MeiouHades
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And here too. This is a constantly repeating pattern honestly, I was going to report earlier but I held off. The point isn't whether they're called goons or not, the constant barrage of toxicity is just exhausting.
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I don't want to clog the thread, but there's no way to use goons as something insulting here.
Just search the actual uses of the word on the wiki, and using it as a reportable act to Chariot is ridiculous.
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btw now this is a warn worthy comment, wholly unnecessary and overtly aggressive over the word goon, this is your warning and I'm deleting the unnecessary comment
MeiouHades
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I'm not going to bicker here, this isn't worth my time. The original report by @FinePoint is highlighting Chariot's blatant toxicity, anyone who has had even a small conversation with him would know that. And that's what my comment is for, to underscore yet another instance of said toxicity, not the use of the word goon itself, and their tone isn't something I believe is conducive to a good debate or discussion here. Damage and I frequently disagree and we remain civil to even friendly-ish for instance. Anyway, please don't reply to me further, I won't be responding.I don't want to clog the thread, but there's no way to use goons as something insulting here.
Just search the actual uses of the word on the wiki, and using it as a reportable act to Chariot is ridiculous.
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Yes, ignoring how that was framed lighthearted and framed as a meme, it's true, I was telling them to expect it because I woke up to multiple mods talking about it.
Also, huh, I never said I was on their asses? There was no "I" there? Yes, they would be ******? If a bunch of feats get thrown out and the verse has nothing to fall back on, it'd be completely ******? It'd be Tokyo Revengers 2.0, so make sure there's a bunch of backup shit?
Literally everyone agreed it was disrespectful and undermining to even do that.
And yes that still applies, if we're going to just treat others opinion's as invalid, may as well skip the process and just make it staff only. In fact I was told to do exactly that in response by staff.
And not "was gonna", the CRT is already being worked on, you make it sound as if a downgrade is done out of spite, for spite's sake, instead of there needs to be one for accuracy's sake.
Yes, I shouldn't have to explain why multiple attacks aren't one, you can see it directly.
Combative on a debate forum is one thing, don't presume spite for the sake of it.
Ayo hol up, most of that was lighthearted jest and memeing? Some of that is even directed at people I'm friendly with and know we playin
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Genuine question: How much of this is actual concerns about toxicity, and how much of it is just supporters trying to get rid of someone before they can downgrade their verse?
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I was also contacted privately regarding the same matter, so I feel I should comment on it.
Some of the things Chariot has said are unacceptable, the most notable one, I believe, being from Exhibit C:
Whatever your take on the verse might be: insisting that a thread will be made staff-only specifically to keep out someone who said something you don't like is spiteful and hostile conduct. This is not beneficial to the discussion - it is outright the exact opposite, expressing an intention to load a thread in advance against the people who disagree with you. This was a severe and unwarranted overreaction to what Chariot was told, however much they might have thought it wasn't reasonable.
I also generally find Chariot's hostilities across the messages (though not all of them; I don't really see why Exhibit B was brought up) to be concerning. Exhibit E especially so - I would frankly say that telling people to prostrate as a threat to make them do what you want, however 'jokingly' you might argue it was intended, is outright bullying behaviour. To use the rather crass and disagreeable terminology: "Schrodinger's Arsehole" tells us of such situations where people enable themselves to say whatever demeaning things they want to others so long as they can claim they were "just memeing" afterwards.
Chariot has a long-standing history of these types of comments, and has been advised time and time again not to make them, for which they have continued to justify to themselves their right to continue it, however much the people affected by them have objected to his conduct. This same line of behaviour was what led to their original demotion and further punishment, which has evidently yet to result in any changes. I would agree with FinePoint's assessment that this warrants a temporary ban, though I think 3 months specifically isn't a necessary extension, and I would rather something in the range of 2 months.
Some of the things Chariot has said are unacceptable, the most notable one, I believe, being from Exhibit C:
Whatever your take on the verse might be: insisting that a thread will be made staff-only specifically to keep out someone who said something you don't like is spiteful and hostile conduct. This is not beneficial to the discussion - it is outright the exact opposite, expressing an intention to load a thread in advance against the people who disagree with you. This was a severe and unwarranted overreaction to what Chariot was told, however much they might have thought it wasn't reasonable.
I also generally find Chariot's hostilities across the messages (though not all of them; I don't really see why Exhibit B was brought up) to be concerning. Exhibit E especially so - I would frankly say that telling people to prostrate as a threat to make them do what you want, however 'jokingly' you might argue it was intended, is outright bullying behaviour. To use the rather crass and disagreeable terminology: "Schrodinger's Arsehole" tells us of such situations where people enable themselves to say whatever demeaning things they want to others so long as they can claim they were "just memeing" afterwards.
Chariot has a long-standing history of these types of comments, and has been advised time and time again not to make them, for which they have continued to justify to themselves their right to continue it, however much the people affected by them have objected to his conduct. This same line of behaviour was what led to their original demotion and further punishment, which has evidently yet to result in any changes. I would agree with FinePoint's assessment that this warrants a temporary ban, though I think 3 months specifically isn't a necessary extension, and I would rather something in the range of 2 months.
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Genuinely didn't think this was going to be reported at all
Although I dislike the accusations thrown at the intent behind the report, i can't speak for everyone so I will simply state my own reasons here, chariot does use pretty light hearted banter but honestly even his words come out and paint the picture that he is doing it out of spite, which genuinely got me worried
And the issue i'm more so seeing here is how 5 mods with voting power managed to come togheter to systmatically "revise" a verse's scaling and abilities, seemingly out of nowhere, chariot informed us about it, and while his tone made it seem like he is doing it out of spite in certain cases, intent is hard to prove, especially since he did state we should get more supporting calcs, but the point being is he made it seem so certain that the downgrade will be implement and that we should prepare for the worse"
Downgrade threads like any CRTs are supposed to be open discussions where the evidence is weighed fairly, but like, you have half a dozen staff weighing in and coming together all to make a single downgrade crt for a single verse seemingly out of nowhere and it just it gives the impression that the outcome is already predetermined rather than something still being debated.
Sorry but even if the intent isn’t to gang up the situation here still creates the appearance of a block vote rather than independent neutral evaluation, i genuinely doubt non staff can contribute meaningfully, anything is just gonna get overshadowed by the sheer authority and volume of staff input, this kinda feels less like a fair exchange of reasoning and more like staff consensus being enforced.
I’m not saying staff can’t participate, but like, when this many with voting rights are all concentrated on one side of a single thread before it even starts, it just doesn’t come across as impartial or transparent.
Hope this clears stuff up a little.
I'm going to sleep now, so unfortunately I can't see the end of this, have a good night everyone
Although I dislike the accusations thrown at the intent behind the report, i can't speak for everyone so I will simply state my own reasons here, chariot does use pretty light hearted banter but honestly even his words come out and paint the picture that he is doing it out of spite, which genuinely got me worried
And the issue i'm more so seeing here is how 5 mods with voting power managed to come togheter to systmatically "revise" a verse's scaling and abilities, seemingly out of nowhere, chariot informed us about it, and while his tone made it seem like he is doing it out of spite in certain cases, intent is hard to prove, especially since he did state we should get more supporting calcs, but the point being is he made it seem so certain that the downgrade will be implement and that we should prepare for the worse"
Downgrade threads like any CRTs are supposed to be open discussions where the evidence is weighed fairly, but like, you have half a dozen staff weighing in and coming together all to make a single downgrade crt for a single verse seemingly out of nowhere and it just it gives the impression that the outcome is already predetermined rather than something still being debated.
Sorry but even if the intent isn’t to gang up the situation here still creates the appearance of a block vote rather than independent neutral evaluation, i genuinely doubt non staff can contribute meaningfully, anything is just gonna get overshadowed by the sheer authority and volume of staff input, this kinda feels less like a fair exchange of reasoning and more like staff consensus being enforced.
I’m not saying staff can’t participate, but like, when this many with voting rights are all concentrated on one side of a single thread before it even starts, it just doesn’t come across as impartial or transparent.
Hope this clears stuff up a little.
I'm going to sleep now, so unfortunately I can't see the end of this, have a good night everyone
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Chariot only said this because the supporters literally were telling him his opinion and arguments didn't matter in the thread because he was not a Calc Group Member. I find it very odd how he's being reported for this and not the other way around, if anything.
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Privately? Why are we doing things behind closed doors, people should come out and say it.
How is that unacceptable, I was actively told to do so in response, by staff.
And that's exactly what I'm going to do,
Probably for the best anyway.
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I agree that calling people "Goons" isn't really that bad if done on occasion, though saying it ultra frequently can become a pattern. But we do not need a bunch of nonstaff users arguing back and forth about that topic and we should move on.
However, I do agree with much of what FinePoint said regarding the patterns. Even the punishments he originally received way back when are overall generous compared what's usually deserved relative to the respective severities of the actions. Normally, harassing people in DMs is something that earns both a demotion and a ban. Not just a simple demotion. Not to mention, it was supposed to be doubled as a final warning when certain HR groups agreed with a simple demotion but hesitant on a ban. But it wasn't until he was officially given a 3rd final warning was when the 1 month ban finally happened. And final warnings are meant to actually be final warning; that's like not giving someone an out till they had 5 strikes as opposed to 3 strikes being a standard. Which was another note discussed in one of the private RVR threads. Though as for the listed examples, the "On your asses and expect the worst" comment was the only thing that would on its own warrant for something. The rest aren't really too bad individually and has more to do with them merging as a repeated pattern.
Also, I agree with what Grath said.
However, I do agree with much of what FinePoint said regarding the patterns. Even the punishments he originally received way back when are overall generous compared what's usually deserved relative to the respective severities of the actions. Normally, harassing people in DMs is something that earns both a demotion and a ban. Not just a simple demotion. Not to mention, it was supposed to be doubled as a final warning when certain HR groups agreed with a simple demotion but hesitant on a ban. But it wasn't until he was officially given a 3rd final warning was when the 1 month ban finally happened. And final warnings are meant to actually be final warning; that's like not giving someone an out till they had 5 strikes as opposed to 3 strikes being a standard. Which was another note discussed in one of the private RVR threads. Though as for the listed examples, the "On your asses and expect the worst" comment was the only thing that would on its own warrant for something. The rest aren't really too bad individually and has more to do with them merging as a repeated pattern.
Also, I agree with what Grath said.
Epyriel
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I was responding to 5 people there (multiple of which agreed with me) to clarify this was a CGM thread (and as such only CGM votes count).
That was it.
I even followed with the explicit rule of how CGM threads works and other members should only comment “if they can provide information, or it is otherwise useful for a discussion.”
Which doesn’t even apply to Chariot since he was actually participating in a constructive discussion.
This was in no way intended as an attempt to “shut down” dissent. Even then I removed the comment entirely upon request so that it couldn’t even be misconstrued as such, and apologized for any unintended offence given.
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Do two wrongs make a right? Are we entitled to use our leverage to silence other people's opinions because we think they don't take our opinions seriously? I say no.
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Moreso a thread like this would need to be a staff thread anyways with numerous other CGMs and staff present since it is almost the entirety of the verses calcs in discussion and almost the entirety of them need to be revised, literal staff thread worthy shit alone. How is that reportable, am I going to be reported because we did the same thing with Tokyo Revengers
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If that is the case, I suppose the KNY supporters instigating him will also get a 3 month ban no?
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To put it bluntly, it wouldn't be the first time a supporter base has reported someone to try and get rid of them and prevent a downgrade. The accusation is harsh, but I believe it to be rooted in at least some degree of truth. Apologies
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I think so many people started to comment here rn, while i can see why, i do think it's kinda unnecessary right now. Just saying.
Sorry for commenting as well
Sorry for commenting as well
Epyriel
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What exactly was ban worthy?
Can only speak for myself, but I was trying to be as polite as possible in that thread.
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I was never given a warning actually, not one person contacted me about it or leading up to it.
The ban happened without me being contacted at all. Would've been cool if I was contacted though so I could save the sandboxes I had open so I didn't end up losing weeks of progress and calcs but ya know.
Yes, multiple people are on their asses due to the recent changes.
There is nothing wrong with that, in fact it'd be even worse if nobody said as much. Big CRT coming and nobody was alerted to take precautions and steps is extremely scummy.
Alerting them that "hey bros, a bunch of staff and CGMs on your asses now, you should probably get back up shit", isn't toxic, it isn't even me doing it. How the hell am I the villain here?
This would be like if I dm'd the mario goons and went "yo so like, a dozen stuff hate this calc, and gonna downgrade the verse, figure shit out my dudes or the verse is gonna be ******".
That isn't me being toxic, it's me giving people a warning.
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XSOULOFCINDERX
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Oh, I see we're jumping Chariot for literally no reason other than pettiness now. Fun. Seriously this is ridiculous, nothing he said was report worthy barring maybe Exhibit E as noted before but even then are we really gonna get on his case for that alone when he was actively being antagonized?
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All of yall go take a breather and stop trying to build up cases against each other.
If you aren't staff and you don't have anything to genuinely add, get out. This is the rvr not the peanut gallery.
If you aren't staff and you don't have anything to genuinely add, get out. This is the rvr not the peanut gallery.
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Also yes.
If we're arguing that people don't have voting rights on even a basic thread like that, even if true, is disrespectful and undermining, so why would we ever make an extremely large encompassing CRT that is bound to be heated and cover massive aspects as open to everyone, instead of reliable staff and a few trusted supporters who were given permission (Like don't forget, it being staff doesn't mean people can't comment, they just need to ask first), especially when the big CRT would be covering that very same topic?
Like hell I was gonna make it or start with it as a normal CRT (Really shouldn't be, should be a CGM thread given it's mostly about calcs), I was just feeling generous because it'd suck for the few blue names who might have something valid to say but, oops staff thread ya can't comment without jumping through hoops.
But if we're just saying only staff votes matter for the verse, why even do the initial messy process, just cut out the middle man.
Would make the most sense anyway, it'd undoubtedly lead to clutter, bloating, derailing, a bunch of intersecting arguments between a bunch of people and more if it was open generally.
And, again, I would like to point out how I was told to make it staff only in response to the comment, and was told to make it staff only originally too, the fact it wasn't going to be was because I was being nice about it. You're reading this as some sort of excessively toxic spite when there's a whole bunch of context behind it.
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Actually, you were given two warnings that I was going to speak with HR before the demotion happened. And there were other staff members who also gave you them on other threads; it's not just HR group members who can give warnings. Admins are allowed to warn Thread Mods and Calc Group members that "This isn't an appropriate thing for staff members to be saying and you're supposed to be setting a better example." And it's especially Bureaucrats and Super Moderators who also can. And those were before the harassment in DMs happened. But everyone basically had a uniformingly agreement on a demotion at bare minimum upon analyzing the DMs confirming what you said to me was indeed harassment. Grath and Bambu sort of agreed with a possible short ban, but conceded that just a demotion was fine.
Also, Grath is correct that "A multitude of wrongs does not make a right" and KingTempest is also correct nonstaff should not be posting any further if they do not have anything both new and contributive to add to the conversation. It is time for staff to evaluate and analyze what must be done.
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Grath was in fact not right here btw fyi as there were no wrongs in saying he would make the thread a staff thread, you seem to ignore all the reasoning outside of this and besides Grath's first comment here was calling Chariot "Schrodinger's Arsehole" anyways so lets not entirely ignore agendas at play here.
Otherwise you all seem so keen on these reports but ignore the fact that in none of of these threads did anyone even commented/mentioned Chariot's behavior being offensive in any way. It would've been one thing if someone went "Hey, that comment kinda comes off rude" and Chariot just said "**** off" or argued about it, then sure. A report makes sense. But saying nothing in the threads themselves as if you have no issue and then reporting him seems sketchy
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That isn't a warning. Especially when one was framed "i might" with zero implication of anything.
Also not what I was talking about, you said the ban. No warning was given for that, under any case.
"But it wasn't until he was officially given a 3rd final warning was when the 1 month ban finally happened."
I was never informed of a ban or a warning that would lead to a ban (or even that there was this secret 3 stage warning process), the ban just kind of happened one morning without zero contact from any one staff with the most recent contact being a handful of days before, by ME contacting said staff (I think it was Lephyr?).
"Hey this isn't that bad but tone it down a lil" or "this is an informal warning to chill a lil" or "nothing here is actually that bad but eh...", is not the same as "We are going to ban you".
If anything they all just come off as "hey you're kind of abrasive but technically nothing is actually rule breaking so whatever".
Well thankfully I'm not a mod anymore.
I'd reply and explain in detail but in fear of it being framed and misinterpret as usual, I am just going to quitely remind you that my initial DM was asking something back which you even said to DM you prior, and then you replying back with a 20,000 word post continuing an argument that had already ended.
Are we even talking about the same thing? I'm talking about the ban. That happened like a year later.
And context, or the fact it's being misread to begin with but **** me ig.
Be consistent and fair with it, if it goes one way, it best go every way equally.
Also to note, I don't think I should have to explain the replies involving emojis, meme pictures like the 4 horsemen, dr manhatten, etc is a conversation that is friendly banter with friendly people and not toxic, shit would be like if I posted a backhand gif to Baken glazing Star Platinum, not exactly the same when we're friends joking around.
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Okay I'm putting a pin in one thing, Grath has no agenda. That's just a very common thing on the Internet (it's actually called Schrodinger's Douchebag but it's the same thing)
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To answer the question, even if Chariot gets temporarily banned, he'd eventually come back and post the thread anyways. And even in the extreme case of him being permanently banned (which most definitely won't happen), someone else could go ahead and post the CRT for him. He himself has claimed various times to be working on the CRT with at least 5 staff members, so there really is nothing stopping any of them (or any other regular user) from posting it instead. A temporary ban wouldn't even halt said thread for the same reasons. So if they want to make a thread, they'll make it anyway.
So I don't think this report is intended to prevent a downgrade, because it clearly can't.
I think there is a clear difference between something like:
"The verse seems to have several issues, so I'm making a CRT to address them" (Or something similar).
And
"Prostrate or I'll downgrade the verse you like // You now have 5 staff members on your asses, expect the worse // You're ****** // I'm digging you a hole".
I'd like to say this is plainly not true, one just needs to give the thread a quick look to notice. The "supporters" never told Chariot his opinion and arguments didn't matter, it was only Epyriel (not two or more supporters) who respectfully reminded Chariot (and 5 other people) that their votes didn't count, which is simply true. Even so, Epyriel kept addressing Chariot concerns, it's not like he simply ignored him afterwards.
Edit: The fact Kachon's message got so many likes (mods included), despite making a false claim is concerning to say the least.
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I can fold there then, I do trust your word enough to then say apologies to Grath for that bit
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Me and Catbowtie friendly tho, we jokin
Don't speak for others and use that as if it's me being toxic instead of joking with a friend.
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