BAN-KAI! Bleach General Discussion

[Specterxxxx]

Gremmy wasn’t stronger than Zaraki’s form!? What are you smoking? Kenpachi didn’t struggle against Gremmy. Zaraki used his Shikai to cut a meteor. Gremmy defeated himself by imagining having the same power as Shikai Kenpachi.

You realize he severely damaged kenpachi in that fight right? Meaning he struggled and Shikai eye patch zaraki is clearly stronger than base eye patch zaraki.

Pernida defeated a nerf base Kenpachi in seconds. Pernida show to be stronger than Gremmy in seconds.

*sigh.....

 

[Apollonir.Scale]

Gremmy wasn’t stronger than Zaraki’s form!? What are you smoking? Kenpachi didn’t struggle against Gremmy. Zaraki used his Shikai to cut a meteor. Gremmy defeated himself by imagining having the same power as Shikai Kenpachi. Pernida defeated a nerf base Kenpachi in seconds. Pernida show to be stronger than Gremmy in seconds.

Activating a shikai to cut a meteor means he can't cut it without a shikai/bankai/eyepatch. If there were an opponent he could defeat without a shikai, he wouldn't have activated a shikai. The phrase "I can't imagine a body that could withstand Gremmy's power" was directed at Eyepatch Shikai Zaraki. So, it doesn't mean he doesn't scale to his eyepatch form.

Pernida defeated Eyepatch Zaraki with dura neg. He then increased his own strength to his level. The same Zaraki form activates a shikai to cut Gremmy's meteor.

 

[AppleLord]

The same reason Pernida defeated a nerf Kenpachi without a Shikai.

That proves Pernida > Gremmy

Gremmy couldn’t kill Kenpachi or harm him until he summoned his clones and that was outer space dura neg and bombs which requires to self sacrifice. Meanwhile, Pernida got rid of him in seconds. Gremmy was also fighting nerf eyepatch Kenpachi.

 

[Apollonir.Scale]

Gremmy was also fighting nerf eyepatch Kenpachi.

Why is Zaraki nerfed?

 

[LephyrTheRevanchist]

Why is Zaraki nerfed?

He means the eye patch itself is a nerf

 

[Infinite9Luck]

You guys low-ball Gremmy too much. In the manga he place himself as the strongest, however you can say he was boasting, but you have to take into account that Kubo himself wrote those dialogues to insert a narrative.

From CFYOW:

星十字騎士団（シュテルンリッター）最強と呼ばれ、実際、ユーハバッハを除けば誰も勝てぬのではないかと言われていた少年の名。

The name of the boy who was called the strongest of the Sternritter, and in fact was said that, except for Yhwach, no one could defeat him.

This isn't just boasting from him, it was general consensus between the Sternitters themself, that he was the strongest.

So yeah... sorry but no, only after his death, the Elite Guards could have surpassed him due to Yhwach's amps or Gerard, which get stronger from Zaraki's damage, but before, it is established he is the strongest.

 

[Apollonir.Scale]

He means the eye patch itself is a nerf

Okay, but he already has an eye patch on when he's facing Gremmy, and when he's facing Pernida.

 

[AppleLord]

Why is Zaraki nerfed?

Eyepatch = nerf

 

[AppleLord]

You guys low-ball Gremmy too much. In the manga he place himself as the strongest, however you can say he was boasting, but you have to take into account that Kubo himself wrote those dialogues to insert a narrative.

From CFYOW:

星十字騎士団（シュテルンリッター）最強と呼ばれ、実際、ユーハバッハを除けば誰も勝てぬのではないかと言われていた少年の名。

The name of the boy who was called the strongest of the Sternritter, and in fact was said that, except for Yhwach, no one could defeat him.

This isn't just boasting from him, it was general consensus between the Sternitters themself, that he was the strongest.

So yeah... sorry but no, only after his death, the Elite Guards could have surpassed him due to Yhwach's amps or Gerard, which get stronger from Zaraki's damage, but before, it is established he is the strongest.

Source for this: “Kubo himself wrote those dialogues “

 

[Specterxxxx]

The same reason Pernida defeated a nerf Kenpachi without a Shikai.

That proves Pernida > Gremmy

Gremmy couldn’t kill Kenpachi or harm him until he summoned his clones and that was outer space dura neg and bombs which requires to self sacrifice. Meanwhile, Pernida got rid of him in seconds. Gremmy was also fighting nerf eyepatch Kenpachi.

How can you say this and be in this thread. This very comment shows that you don't fully understand basic power scaling no offense.

 

[DragoZeroNova]

Just checking, is there a statement that during fullbringer arc, the shinigami that arrived didn't have Gentei Kaijo applied (other then Ikkaku)? Or should it be assumed that all the lieutenants and captains were at 20%.

 

[AppleLord]

How can you say this and be in this thread. This very comment shows that you don't fully understand basic power scaling no offense.

Explain this vague statement as it changes nothing of what was shown in the source material as described.

 

[Apollonir.Scale]

Just checking, is there a statement that during fullbringer arc, the shinigami that arrived didn't have Gentei Kaijo applied (other then Ikkaku)? Or should it be assumed that all the lieutenants and captains were at 20%.

Anyone who passes through the Senkaimon, whether they want it or not, is at 20% power with Gentei Kaijo. Unless you request that the Senkaimon's effects be removed, as Rangiku did, you will be affected. However, in terms of power scaling, not much changes. Ichigo's ability to destroy the pocket dimension, which even the captains couldn't destroy, would have put him above Zaraki at 20% power and Byakuya at 20% power.

 

[DragoZeroNova]

Anyone who passes through the Senkaimon, whether they want it or not, is at 20% power with Gentei Kaijo. Unless you request that the Senkaimon's effects be removed, as Rangiku did, you will be affected. However, in terms of power scaling, not much changes. Ichigo's ability to destroy the pocket dimension, which even the captains couldn't destroy, would have put him above Zaraki at 20% power and Byakuya at 20% power.

My main thoughts were about the fullbringer ratings. Tsukishima is rated with Book of the End at Byakuya's full power, but it should be 20% if there are no statements. Likewise, Jackie's fullbring explosion should be scaling to 20% of Renji.

 

[Specterxxxx]

Explain this vague statement as it changes nothing of what was shown in the source material as described.

Gremmy severely harmed a eye patch Shikai Kenpachi with raw power with his clones.

Pernida with bio hax harmed base eye patch Kenpachi to evolve and get to BASE eye patch Kenpachi level

With common sense, we know that base eye patch Kenpachi isn't stronger than Shikai eye patch Kenpachi. This is the last time I am entertaining this

 

[AppleLord]

Gremmy severely harmed a eye patch Shikai Kenpachi with raw power with his clones.

Pernida with bio hax harmed base eye patch Kenpachi to evolve and get to BASE eye patch Kenpachi level

With common sense, we know that base eye patch Kenpachi isn't stronger than Shikai eye patch Kenpachi. This is the last time I am entertaining this

Don’t copy & paste what I already explained.

And no this doesn't make base Gremmy stronger than eyepatch Kenpachi.

 

[Specterxxxx]

Don’t copy & paste what I already explained.

And no this doesn't make base Gremmy stronger than eyepatch Kenpachi.

 

[GinDan]

Don’t copy & paste what I already explained.

And no this doesn't make base Gremmy stronger than eyepatch Kenpachi.

---

Zaraki had to stop because he was too fast. Gremmy was in panic. Gremmy doesn’t even have Blut Vene since he just hardens his body like steel. Any captain could defeat him. Zaraki is stupid he gave him a motivational speech, and from there Gremmy created the meteor. Gremmy is a fraud in the end.

 

[Crobatman44]

I might be wrong and need to check the profiles again,but currently Post Auswählen Gerard's Sklave rai AP rating of 99.7875 Exatons is the highest point of the scaling chain starting from the Kiko-Oh Yield calc,correct?

 

[Specterxxxx]

I might be wrong and need to check the profiles again,but currently Post Auswählen Gerard's Sklave rai AP rating of 99.7875 Exatons is the highest point of the scaling chain starting from the Kiko-Oh Yield calc,correct?

I thought it was from the Ulquiorra feat?

 

[Superscharbe]

 

[DragoZeroNova]

I thought it was from the Ulquiorra feat?

I might be wrong and need to check the profiles again,but currently Post Auswählen Gerard's Sklave rai AP rating of 99.7875 Exatons is the highest point of the scaling chain starting from the Kiko-Oh Yield calc,correct?

Nah, everything stems from Kiko-Oh tbh. Basically, Kiku-Oh and Post Bankai Training Shikai Ichigo is 38.94 Teratons. Bankai Ichigo is 2X at 77.88 TT. Hollow Mask is at least a 5X at 389.4 TT. Base Grimmjow scales at that number. Post Grimmjow fight Ichigo's base Bankai has reached the same level as Base Grimmjow, so it's now at 389.4 TT. Hollow Mask is now 3.894 Petatons, a 10X increase.

Base Ulquiorra scales to 3.894 PT. His Res is scaled up to 4.435 PT from being superior to Nnoitora, who's also at the same number (though this upscaling may need someone who actually knows the reasoning behind it to help explain, cause idk where the number itself is from (EDIT 2: Pretty sure it's just upscaling to baseline High-6A). His Cero Oscuras is a 10X increase, going to 44.35 PT. Segunda was stated by Uryu to be unlike anything he's ever sensed, and he did just sense Res Ulquiorra's Cero Oscuras, so Segunda also scales to 44.35 PT. Thus, his Cero Oscuras scales to 10X that at 443.5 PT, with Gran Rey Cero and Lanza being an unspecified amount higher (Gran Rey Cero is presented in his other forms and the other Espada as well, but it's always at an unspecified amount higher from Oscuras) Full Hollow Ichigo scales to at least 2X higher, since he was at half power and still crushed Ulquiorra with little effort, putting him at 887 PT.

I'm saving this here just in case I have to use it at some point, but I realize this has no connection to anything else, so you can ignore this part.
Yammy scales in his Max Res to Ulq's 443.5 PT since he was confirmed to be the strongest Espada once he reached that level, and his base Res is 2X weaker at 221.75 PT. Ichigo scales to 443.5 PT at max power, since he overpowered Yammy's 221.75 PT attacks when at half power. His hollow mask boosts him by 10X to 4.435 Exatons, and no, I don't know why it's suddenly 10X. From here, things get a bit weird since Yammy's Cero Oscuras obviously scales to 10X at 2.2175 ET, which apparently people like Byakuya and Zaraki scales to? Idk. But Byakuya and Zaraki scale to him in his best form, which means 2.2175 ET x 2 to 4.435 ET.

Now, from here, this shit is kinda painful since Arc's scaling maps aren't linked anymore, but all the Sternritter scale to either: 38.94 Teratons from the Kiko-Oh feat or from captains like Shunsui, who in turn get their scaling from Espada, who in turn get their scaling from Base Ulquiorra and Res Ulquiorra or they get their scaling from Dordoni, who also gets his scaling from Shikai Ichigo and thus, Kiku-Oh. Gerard is considered superior to Liltotto, who's 443.5 PT from Robert scaling, who in turn is 443.5 PT from Shunsui, who in turn is 443.5 PT from Res Stark, who in turn is 443.5 PT thanks to his wolves being stronger then anything Ulquiorra can dish out, which is 443.5 PT.

Suddenly, we'll move to Uryu, who is 6.6525 ET off upscaling from the Bambis or something like that idk man (EDIT: This scaling seems to be from Liltotto using Sklavei Rei and Voll to 6.6525 ET. Basically, 443.5PT in base x 5 from Voll is 2.2175 ET x 3 from Sklavei Rei is 6.6525 ET, and Uryu scales beyond that) and his Blut is a 5X increase, making him 33.2625 ET. Senjumaru takes care of him fairly easily, putting her at 33.2625 ET. Gerard with Blut + Voll defeats her, putting him at 33.2625 ET. Sklavei Rei is a 3X increase, putting him at 99.7875 ET.

I don't know if there's a higher scaling from this feat and I will not search for one. I don't know why I did this, but do not ever ask me to do this again.

 

[Specterxxxx]

Also, I was rereading cyfow and I feel the exclamation shinji made about grimjoww gran Rey cero potential destruction of the sun should be taken as facts tho I understand the established scaling is very strict so just statements like this wouldn't fly.

 

[LephyrTheRevanchist]

Also, I was rereading cyfow and I feel the exclamation shinji made about grimjoww gran Rey cero potential destruction of the sun should be taken as facts tho I understand the established scaling is very strict so just statements like this wouldn't fly.

Reminder you can powerscale however you want, the wiki isn't law, just note we sometimes put high scrutiny to such statements

 

[Specterxxxx]

Reminder you can powerscale however you want, the wiki isn't law, just note we sometimes put high scrutiny to such statements

I know? I just thought it was funny and i don't scale off wiki it's a waste of time.

 

[Guacamolefletcher]

I think the japanese might say something different

 

[Apollonir.Scale]

In my country, there's an expression called "shooting at the sun." It's probably something like that.

 

[Guacamolefletcher]

In my country, there's an expression called "shooting at the sun." It's probably something like that.

I can assure you, there is absolutely 0 connection between Turkish idioms and Bleach

 

[Specterxxxx]

In my country, there's an expression called "shooting at the sun." It's probably something like that.

Ahh no it wasn't, shinji comes to the scene after grimjoww had unleashed the grc and from the spiritual energy that was dispersed from the attack he makes the statement about them trying to destroy the sun.

 

[Specterxxxx]

I think the japanese might say something different

Maybe but I don't have access to that. Also, the statement urahara makes about aura being on the level of aizen's hakuda and kido should hundred percent be taken as valid basis to scale now that I fully understand the context. I might bring that up if the downgrade thread is still ongoing.

 

[Guacamolefletcher]

Maybe but I don't have access to that. Also, the statement urahara makes about aura being on the level of aizen's hakuda and kido should hundred percent be taken as valid basis to scale now that I fully understand the context. I might bring that up if the downgrade thread is still ongoing.

So you concede that Aura ~ base Aizen?

 

[Apollonir.Scale]

I can assure you, there is absolutely 0 connection between Turkish idioms and Bleach

I'm not saying there's a connection. It's possible that similar idioms exist in other languages as well. If there's a connection, Turkish and Japanese are from the same language family.

 

[Specterxxxx]

So you concede that Aura ~ base Aizen?

I never argued against it? But seeing the novel makes it clear that Aura is basically Aizen without a zanpakuto. That makes her aizen level, it is also said that they would need an aizen level attack to defeat her.

 

[Guacamolefletcher]

I never argued against it? But seeing the novel makes it clear that Aura is basically Aizen without a zanpakuto. That makes her aizen level, it is also said that they would need an aizen level attack to defeat her.

my bad, I confused you with the other dude

 

[Deceived3596]

Bro touched the Orb of Confusion for far too long and now it's having untold consequences on his psyche.

 

[Ghostimuscrime]

 

[Crobatman44]

Assuming that Like episode 39 the title card will show up during the final portion of the episode these are my rough guesses for what episodes 40 through 45 might cover(likely to be very wrong though).
Episode 40:
The last couple chapters of volume 72,those being 662/663 which are the end of Askin vs Yoruichi,alongside Gerard vs the Vizards and also 659 because that's when Toshiro joins the fight.
Maybe a small bit of Jugram vs Uryu.
Episode 41:
Im gonna be greedy and assume this entire episode will focus almost complety on Askin vs Kisuke,though Askin is 100% just done after this ep or the next (these would be chapters 664,665 and 666).
Episode 42 and 43:
Pure Gerard fest,just all of those chapters so that's the last pages of 666,And then chapters 667,668,669,670 and 671.
Episode 44: this might be the Jugram vs Uryu focus episode?
Episode 45: will probably cover the start of Ichigo + Orihime vs Yhwach
Episode 46: Covers the Rest of Ichigo + Orihime vs Yhwach in the throne room,hoping it ends with the it's over panel lmao,ending at Chapter 679: The End.
Edit:im not expecting to be even close to correct with this though.

 

[Guacamolefletcher]

But I'll make a CRT titled "Why shouldn't Espada be sorted by number?" Since the order of all mid-tier characters will be changed there anyway

Insanity (from the Kisuke CRT).

Try and debate "Apollonir scale" about this before he tries to add it.

 

[DragoZeroNova]

"Who said the Espada were ranked from weakest to strongest? They're actually ranked from the least wanked agenda to the most wanked agenda. I'm the most wanked Espada, Ulquiorra Cifar!"

Or something like that idk

 

[Qawsedf234]

I mean I get saying that Ulquiorra's second form probably places him above Number 4, but just because Yammy is trash doesn’t mean he doesn't have the most Reiatsu or anything like that. It's like the fan idea that Barrigan is only Number 2 because Aizen trolled him, rather than just accepting that Starkk has more total energy and probably joined later timeline wise.