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Madness Combat 8-A Upgrade (Calcs approved by staff)

Comiphorous

Comiphorous

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Madness Combat: Auditor's facility gets destroyed

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Madness Combat lovers just can't stop winning!!! due to the calc above, many characters are going to be upgraded to 8-A. The following characters should scale to this feat full on;


These aren't the only characters who are affected by this though. I'd like to give the following characters listed below a 'likely 8-A' rating, due to characters like Jesus (and those who are comparable to him) being able to take hits from The Auditor, but are far weaker and inferior. Specifically in Jesus' case, (which is the main reason anyone is even getting this likely rating) is even killed by the very feat we're discussing, making it generally not definitive but still notable for scaling to these characters;


Agree: Theglassman12

Disagree:
 
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Make sure to specify more details about the feat to further alleviate any misgivings about The Auditor just going intangible to no-sell the blast. If I understand correctly, the idea is that Dissonance is what struck down from the sky, and Dissonance can bypass the Auditor's intangibility. So he took that damage as opposed to phasing through it, but it just wasn't enough to kill him. Is this reading correct?
 
Follow_Doctor_Freeman said:
Make sure to specify more details about the feat to further alleviate any misgivings about The Auditor just going intangible to no-sell the blast. If I understand correctly, the idea is that Dissonance is what struck down from the sky, and Dissonance can bypass the Auditor's intangibility. So he took that damage as opposed to phasing through it, but it just wasn't enough to kill him. Is this reading correct?
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Basically most technology in the verse is powered by dissonance, so the blast would be dissonance, much like how other technology like the halo’s energy attacks are dissonance.

I am currently not home, but I will write a note for auditor’s profile to explain it
 
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Okey doke. You can count me as agreed, we should just specify the nature of the feat a bit more for those unfamiliar so as to get general agreement more easily.
 
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Also, perhaps Deimos's second key should be clear-cut 8-A for how much of a boost he got to the point of stomping large foes in the Deimos Adventures miniseries & even seemingly doing a number on the Auditor with his rock attack in 12, if that's what was happening there.

I guess one could ask questions on how 8-A bullets work, but maybe they can eventually damage MAGs due to piercing/don't instagib the lower tiers due to being 9mm rounds.
 
Follow_Doctor_Freeman said:
Also, perhaps Deimos's second key should be clear-cut 8-A for how much of a boost he got to the point of stomping large foes in the Deimos Adventures miniseries & even seemingly doing a number on the Auditor with his rock attack in 12, if that's what was happening there.
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Nah, those bigger enemies weren't MAG Agent scale, so it's unlikely that theres any reliable way to scale him to that level rn. Based off appearances of some of those enlarged ones, it's more than likely Half-MAGs, who also only get the likely rating.
Follow_Doctor_Freeman said:
I guess one could ask questions on how 8-A bullets work, but maybe they can eventually damage MAGs due to piercing/don't instagib the lower tiers due to being 9mm rounds.
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Guns in Madness Combat are just those things that under most circumstances can just hurt anyone inverse. It's pretty common in fiction.

There are in universe MAG-level bullets though. MAGnified deagles and Jesus' sniper rifle both can easily kill MAG Agents.
 
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okay something like this on Auditor's profile should probably be fine;

"Note: Despite The Auditor's layered intangibility, The Auditor was still hit by the energy blast that destroyed the facility he was inside due to The Improbability Drive's powers functioning off of Dissonant Reality, an energy source which has been shown to bypass The Auditor's intangibility making the feat valid for him to scale to."
 
this seems inconsistent to scale to considering jebus lost part of his face and chest from the blast while being at the edge.

Also not really buying him not being intangible there, he's not clumped as a solid mass and comes out of the wall from what we see post blast. We don't see up close him getting touched by the blast since the scene cuts away to the outer shot of the building when sanford and co are driving by.
 
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Mephistus said:
this seems inconsistent to scale to considering jebus lost part of his face and chest from the blast while being at the edge.
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that's why he only gets a likely rating for the 8-A. he still can endure many hits from The Auditor, but is ultimately killed by the very feat The Auditor actually scales to. It's still notable to Jesus, but isn't enough to rightfully scale him fully to 8-A.
 
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I want to agree but I'm kinda skeptical about Auditor tanking the blast, because even if you say that the blast bypassed his intangibility due to dissonance/improbability drive (which seems kinda weird to me since it happened after the drive was broken?) he still came out of it seemingly unscathed, while MAG Hank's punches, which were on a way smaller scale, gave him visible damage despite using (apparently) the same energy source?

If it bypassed his intangibility it seems strange that Hank's punches would damage him more than the massive explosion (unless Hank's punches just had more AP I guess). I still think it's possible the blast could've hit Auditor because Hank physically grabbed him before he got his new arm with powers, but I'm not convinced that it can be confirmed
 
Doorthatcloses said:
I want to agree but I'm kinda skeptical about Auditor tanking the blast, because even if you say that the blast bypassed his intangibility due to dissonance/improbability drive (which seems kinda weird to me since it happened after the drive was broken?)
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The drive was damaged, and began the reality restoration process. the whole process was powered by The Improbability Drive still. (I think it later was destroyed but it still powered the restoration process. not sure how it continued it once it was destroyed but ig that's just it being awesome)
Doorthatcloses said:
he still came out of it seemingly unscathed, while MAG Hank's punches, which were on a way smaller scale, gave him visible damage despite using (apparently) the same energy source?
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This is because the improbability drive originally wasn't powered by Dissonance. it was a rip from another piece of fiction and was later rewritten to be it's own thing and include Dissonant Reality in it's lore after the episode came out. Krinkles even talks about this discrepancy in the lore in a stream. (Only time you're gonna see me unironically use a twitch link)

The "retcon" (if you want to call it that) of the improbability drive's powersource is why you have the auditor tanking a giant dissonance building vaporizing beam in one scene but also being susceptible to it in the very next epsiode when Hank uses it. Ultimately it's just a feat for the auditor and hank.
 
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All relevant data entailing pretty much every appearance by the Auditor to understand his intangibility, which will help us estimate if he phased through the 8-A Dissonance bolt:
  • In MC10, the Auditor phases through all normal physical attacks that he sees coming.
  • Fifty seconds in, Mag-Hank is able to touch the Auditor when the latter doesn't see it coming. This sneak-attack is the only time anyone manages to touch him before Mag-Hank gets Dissonance powers from grabbing the Halo a few seconds later.
  • Mag-Hank initially doesn't use the Dissonance powers -- he starts to spark Dissonance electricity and possibly uses it to disarm the Auditor's spear, yet his whiffing punches right after grabbing the Halo don't yet have the electricity as he throws them -- but after catching up for round two and getting more used to his new powers in the meantime, Mag-Hank is able to hit the Auditor even when he does see it coming via his Dissonance-empowered punches (the electricity).
  • In that last timestamp, Mag-Hank also lands some normal blows in between Dissonance punches that had stunned the Auditor first. The normal punches don't leave scorch marks the way the Dissonance ones do & he doesn't lead with the normal punches, but they do land.
  • Going back to the first time we see the Auditor fight, in MC8, he does get hit by Jedediah once from an unexpected normal-physical parry, but the rest of the time he phases through all the attacks.
  • At the moment of the potentially 8-A feat, the Auditor does note the computer monitor's warning of the Improbability Drive's malfunction, but he isn't looking up when the bolt strikes & may not know it's about to hit him.
  • The Auditor is also surprised by a sudden rock attack in MC12 (possibly from Deimos). The rocks here & in the following room do have a red aura, but I'm not sure if they're Dissonance-empowered or not.

Takeaways:
  1. The Auditor's intangibility is not passive, so he can be hit by even surprising normal attacks.
  2. The Auditor cannot phase through Dissonance attacks even if he sees them coming.

Finally let's take a look at his appearance right after the Dissonance blast, this MC9 scene. In the first shot of the scene, his soupy form is seen hopping from behind some rubble into view. Some might interpret this as him being intangible during the whole event & not tanking the Dissonance blast. Here are some counters:
  1. We don't see the Auditor become intangible or even seem sure that he himself is about to be struck as the blast strikes.
  2. The Auditor goes soupy in order to conveniently cross distances (such as not only hopping over that wall when we first see him in the aforementioned MC9 timestamp but also just travelling a few feet away afterwards to Jedediah's corpse right after).
  3. After hopping the wall, the Auditor seems intact but a bit dazed, wobbling & looking around as if unsure of what just happened.
  4. The Auditor is never seen phasing through Dissonant attacks, aware or unaware, besides.

With all this in mind, I believe it is most likely that the 8-A Dissonance bolt in MC6 did hit the Auditor. I'll leave it up to you all if this is convincing & makes sense overall.
 
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Considering he can simply just phase underground, it seems to be the more likely way he could've survived that way since the first we see of him post blast is phasing out of the top of wall rather than from behind it (where he wouldve been if pushed down from the blast being on the second level). Cast me as lean to disagree.
 
This should be fine. Though, I believe that the feat can get higher than that since the height you used for the door is lowballed to the standard door height. Given most of the characters are of Hank's height (6'2"), and that the door to the building Jebus broke into looks to be about twice his height, you can definitely get a higher volume for the building and therefore a higher destruction yield.
 
Psychomaster35 said:
This should be fine. Though, I believe that the feat can get higher than that since the height you used for the door is lowballed to the standard door height. Given most of the characters are of Hank's height (6'2"), and that the door to the building Jebus broke into looks to be about twice his height, you can definitely get a higher volume for the building and therefore a higher destruction yield.
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i lowkey robbed this calc from another wiki and just credited the og calcer so i wouldn't know LMAO
 
Like, i said three times before, I don't believe he wasn't in phased mode when the blast hit if he's in wall there and protected in the rock/(under)ground. If he was actually just a black mass behind the wall then sure ig. Premise is based on shaky foundation to put as a solid rating.
 
Mephistus said:
Like, i said three times before, I don't believe he wasn't in phased mode when the blast hit.
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Dissonance ignores essentially all the abilities of the employers. what ability he had activated at the moment wouldn't matter, it'd just hit him anyways.

and even then, there isn't a hole in the ground to show he even did what your suggesting. Your claim that he went underground is completely baseless. Shit we even see The Auditor sit there as it fires down.
 
Thank you for your cosigning, PsychoMaster. If we do agree that the Auditor tanked the blast via my reasonings, I also wonder if we could get a higher yield by assessing the building through the footage we see of its rooms in MC8 (as seen from here to the end of the episode) instead of the outside view along, though I'll leave if & how to go about that to others.

Comiphorous, I recommend keeping a tally in the OP, especially of calc-team members (including those in the comments of your blog post) who approve your math & such. Maybe even put "(Calcs Approved by Staff)" in the thread title. Will help keep readers up to speed.

Mephistus, thanks for bringing this to attention, and I hope this doesn't sound too dismissive, but I think that with the effect being a bit on top of the wall just barely riiiiight on the back edge there was just a layering issue from a decade-plus-old Flash animation, as opposed to implying he stuffed himself in a thin layer of wall.
 
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Follow_Doctor_Freeman said:
Thank you for your cosigning, PsychoMaster. If we do agree that the Auditor tanked the blast via my reasonings, I also wonder if we could get a higher yield by assessing the building through the footage we see of its rooms in MC8 (as seen from here to the end of the episode) instead of the outside view along, though I'll leave if & how to go about that to others.
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The calc is already so close to baseline Small town level that i'm terrified of the idea of Low 7-C Madness Combat being even slightly possible, even if it's the highest tiers.
Follow_Doctor_Freeman said:
Mephistus, thanks for bringing this to attention, and I hope this doesn't sound too dismissive, but I think that with the effect being a bit on top of the wall just barely riiiiight on the back edge there was just a layering issue from a decade-plus-old Flash animation.
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This, and the fact that The Auditor literally has never put himself into objects like that before.
 
Comiphorous said:
The calc is already so close to baseline Small town level that i'm terrified of the idea of Low 7-C Madness Combat being even slightly possible, even if it's the highest tiers.

This, and the fact that The Auditor literally has never put himself into objects like that before.
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Low 7-C would be peak also if you want consistency. You can try to get the high 8-C calcs accepted
 
I'm fine with that part of the argument with it nulling his abilities. the part i don't agree with is he visually comes out of the intact wall rather than like dropped just behind it. Old animation be damned.
Comiphorous said:
and even then, there isn't a hole in the ground to show he even did what your suggesting.
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as i have shared, he can phase just fine without making holes. I'm sure there's more examples i could give with his teleportation not even necessarily leaving scorch marks where he's standing/sitting, something he couldve done as with his squiggly phased form.
Follow_Doctor_Freeman said:
Mephistus, thanks for bringing this to attention, and I hope this doesn't sound too dismissive, but I think that with the effect being a bit on top of the wall just barely riiiiight on the back edge there was just a layering issue from a decade-plus-old Flash animation.
Click to expand...
I get the angle your trying for, but the fire is overlapping in the middle of the front edge of the wall where it originates. If it was miniscule I wouldn't even bother bringing it up. I'm still not really convinced here anyway given the auditors abilities, but I've presented pretty much all I care to here.
 
Mephistus said:
as i have shared, he can phase just fine without making holes. I'm sure there's more examples i could give with his teleportation not even necessarily leaving scorch marks where he's standing/sitting, something he couldve done as with his squiggly phased form.
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yeah that's teleportation. which he didn't do because he was in the rubble of the blast. like the most damning part about your idea is the fact he is still in the rubble when we next see him. Unless The Auditor has three layers of intangibility for this single scene he must've been hit. The intended viewing of the scene was that The Auditor came up from behind the part of the wall after the blast hit him.
 
Well, if the Auditor was meant to be hiding underground, why not show him rising up from the ground, as opposed to popping up from the top of that thin layer of wall rubble? I don't think the Auditor, from the second floor not even looking up at the imminent threat, stood around until the last second before deciding to hide in the one surviving layer of an otherwise-demolished wall a whole floor down. If he went underground or if he teleported, we would see him rising from the ground or being a safe distance away; we wouldn't see him rising from the thin top of the jank wall.

It seems to me that he got blasted, hopped over the (slightly jankily layered) wall, and wobbled around in a daze from the sudden unprepared-for hit before composing himself.

Mephistus said:
as i have shared, he can phase just fine without making holes. I'm sure there's more examples i could give with his teleportation not even necessarily leaving scorch marks where he's standing/sitting, something he couldve done as with his squiggly phased form.
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This is something addressed to Comiphorus, but I have some thoughts on it. In your first link, from MC9 (295s), the ground was already scorched before he rose from it. In your second link from MC10 (123s), that surface is NOT scorched until AFTER he phases through it. The third link, from MC8 (263s), is irrelevant as that was a teleport & not rising from a surface. Rising from a surface, not teleporting or even sliding across a surface, is what matters since you proport that he rose from the surface that was top of that thin jank wall.

Now, the only other times to my memory where the Auditor phases through solids all entail scorch marks. At the start of MC10 (21s), plus near the end of MC10 (312s), plus in MC11 (167s). Scorch marks in every entry & exit.

The Auditor teleporting & sliding across a surface doesn't leave scorch marks, but rising from a surface does. So if anything, this means the top of that darn wall should have had a scorch mark if he rose from it. I believe this is strong evidence that he wasn't hiding in the wall, but rather that he was simply hopping from behind it after tanking the blast, with the layering being a minor animation error being read too much into. Again, good eye in the first place and thanks for voicing your theory, but I believe I've outlined how our reading makes more sense.


I gotta head out for now, but I'll be by later to address any other points if needed.
 
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I also want to mention that The Auditor didn't look and see the blast coming from the sky, so he most likely didn't just teleport away or really do anything to protect himself
 
Comiphorous said:
The calc is already so close to baseline Small town level that i'm terrified of the idea of Low 7-C Madness Combat being even slightly possible, even if it's the highest tiers.
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Well Mag-Hank has a statement of being 5 times stronger iirc. It would be Low 7-C if that was accepted. But Vy told me on discord that VBW won't accept that for some reason
 
Heeyyyy its that one MC calculation that I made! Nice.

Anyway, uh, agreed with the upgrade.
 
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CitRusReality64 said:
Well Mag-Hank has a statement of being 5 times stronger iirc. It would be Low 7-C if that was accepted. But Vy told me on discord that VBW won't accept that for some reason
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Didn't we accept MAG Hank's initial intelligence being 1/3 of his usual intelligence from the same screen that shows the change in his strength? Why can't the latter also be accepted?
 
CitRusReality64 said:
Well Mag-Hank has a statement of being 5 times stronger iirc. It would be Low 7-C if that was accepted. But Vy told me on discord that VBW won't accept that for some reason
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largely unreliable, basically. the stat screen that showed that seems more akin to the stats of Arena Mode from Project Nexus.
Psychomaster35 said:
Didn't we accept MAG Hank's initial intelligence being 1/3 of his usual intelligence from the same screen that shows the change in his strength? Why can't the latter also be accepted?
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we accepted that he's generally dumber now. we don't know to what degree though, since we generally don't know how much dumber the magnification makes someone when going through it before and after besides hank himself and he's a half baked MAG.
 
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