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Attack on Titan - Canon Adjustment and Clarifications
- Thread starter WeeklyBattles
- Start date
- Status
Lilybitdun
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Alright this has four staff agreements, I believe just gotta wait 48hrs since thread creation to apply now
HelloThere1089
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Only counting mod votes is appeal to authority
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I think theres been some confusion as to what an appeal to authority is. Just because they made it, doesn't mean they can change something after the fact. It's like if I made a boys love book and then said after the book was finished the main character is actually a trans person. Using that is an appeal to authority and it would apply here.
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- Thread starter
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Going the JK Rowling route is a wild example
Ghostimuscrime
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Is this not still just a retcon?
or are you trying to argue something similar to how Kodansha owns the IP and by extension control of it Isayama would not have the sole control over what is canon? other than that I really don't see a valid counter
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I think what you meant to say is there is a character who is absolutely a boy throughout the entire story but after the story the writer says they are a girl. That’s a contradiction, but depending on the context that could still fit in the story. Also that doesn’t apply here at all though because this is about a change actually directly made to the story that the creator actively said he wanted. Like he’s going back in and actually making the change, not just saying a full on contradiction in hindsight. And even then that’s death of the author not appeal to authority
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Thats just a retcon. A dumb retcon, but nonetheless a retcon.
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That won’t even be a retcon within the given context, a trans man is a man
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I wanna shoot myself after this
Ahh yes, let's consider Star Wars Legends to be part of the Disney continuity regardless of what Disney says, because their retconning it is "appeal to authority."
Congratulations, you described what a retcon is. Legit, all they did was give additional details to a character. There is nothing contradictory in your example.
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- Thread starter
- #54
Hell yeah, make Starkiller canon again
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Appealing to Authority isn't an inherently fallacious thing to do. We always appeal to some level of authority, and we do so for logically sound reasons; we do it on site regarding complicated, philosophical or mathematical topics since these topics require a knowledge-base to comprehend and reasonably comment upon.
It would be fallacious to appeal to an unsubstantiated authority since there is no basis in believing what they say is true, if it isn't supported by consensus or expertise. The dude is literally the author of the story, his word regarding how he wishes the story to be is unquestionable. You can personally disagree with it, but to say his word is meaningless is incorrect since he is the ultimate authority - the author of the story.
It would be fallacious to appeal to an unsubstantiated authority since there is no basis in believing what they say is true, if it isn't supported by consensus or expertise. The dude is literally the author of the story, his word regarding how he wishes the story to be is unquestionable. You can personally disagree with it, but to say his word is meaningless is incorrect since he is the ultimate authority - the author of the story.
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Wild you're using an example like that here of all places. If that's your justification to say this is just an appeal to authority and not a proper retcon, then holy shit you need to get your priorities straight.
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- Thread starter
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So like, do i need to put this in a blog or? Do i just link this thread on the verse page?
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With all being said, we are in no position to dictate what is and isn't canon and what is and isn't a fallacy, that's up to the author who dictates the story, unless you suddenly think you have the higher authority than he does when it comes to dictating the story, the license and the property rights. Good luck actually challenging that in court, see how far you get.
I'm serious BTW. If this is the best argument you got, you better lawyer up to go against Isayama to see who has the higher authority over AoT.
I'm serious BTW. If this is the best argument you got, you better lawyer up to go against Isayama to see who has the higher authority over AoT.
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You can't link a thread directly to the verse page, you'd need to make a blog. How many staff accepted this? I can tag more to make this solid.
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- Thread starter
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Four, you, Nierre, Medeus, and Tracer
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I'm just a CGM without approval rights in a CRT, so that's about 3. I'll tag some more folk.
@Mr. Bambu @Agnaa @Planck69 @LephyrTheRevanchist @Elizhaa @Dereck03 @LordGriffin1000 @Maverick_Zero_X @Colonel_Krukov @Qawsedf234 @KingTempest @UchihaSlayer96 @Theglassman12 @ActuallySpaceMan42 @Catzlaflame @Emirp sumitpo @Reiner04 @Dalesean027 Can y'all help out here? Some of these "Appeal to authority" arguments are going wild.
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Drop the attitude please.
Well, we kinda are. A fallacy is when something is logically flawed, why is the author changing his work after the fact it's been published logically flawed? Because it doesn't necessarily line up with primary cannon, to use it to scale character is fallacious in and of itself.
An appeal to authority is a type of argument where someone claims a statement is true simply because an authority figure or expert said it, without providing further evidence or justification. This is what's happening here, you're using an authors claim on his work after the fact his work is finished, that doesn't make it cannon if it conflicts with the original scaling of the story.
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I think my attitude to this situation is completely justified given your complete and total lack of any idea or knowledge about how property rights work. I don't think you are at any liberty to tell me that after how you played us staff like a damn fiddle.
He's the author, he can do whatever he wants with his story whether you like it or not. It is not up to us battle-boarders to dictate that, not me and definitely not you.
The fact that you even have to go to such extreme pedantic lengths to go against ownership law and property rights law is just bizarre. I have half a mind to just message the staff and shut your arguments down on the spot but I'll give you benefit of the doubt.
Like I said, lawyer up and challenge Isayama in court, and win a multi-billion dollar class-action lawsuit (Given it's in Japan, LOL). Otherwise your arguments don't hold up. Plain and simple.
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I'll just link to the Canon page for further clarification.
vsbattles.fandom.com
Canon
Canon is a term used to designate works that are generally accepted as the genuine work that apply to the fictional verse. With few possible exceptions only canon material is featured in the character pages, with non-canon material to be ignored. The generally agreed-upon definition is that the...
vsbattles.fandom.com
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I was in early psychosis and struggled with other severe mental illness, I'm to blame for my actions but I don't deserve to be treated the way you're treating me.
You're kinda stonewalling here, you're just making another fallacious claim. Appeal to authority.
Stop acting like a child please. This is a debate.
This doesn't change anything.I'll just link to the Canon page for further clarification.
Canon
Canon is a term used to designate works that are generally accepted as the genuine work that apply to the fictional verse. With few possible exceptions only canon material is featured in the character pages, with non-canon material to be ignored. The generally agreed-upon definition is that the...
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Disagree with Vzearr FRA
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You named a fallacy and said it's not a fallacy. What...
The difference is that they have proof, they have proof as to why they're right. Which gives people a reason to assume it to be correct. There is no reason as to why we should assume the authors words to be absolute.
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Doesn't give you the excuse to do what you did. I have every right to be wary around you for your rule violations so excuse me if I don't agree with you. It's gonna be a ridiculous uphill battle for you to regain our trust back after what you did.
You think I'm stonewalling, read the Canon Page. You don't agree, then make a Staff thread.
Then stop with these condescending derailing remarks that do nothing to address my arguments. The laws dictating property ownership are clear. I've already tagged staff, so stop dragging this out with your silly pedantism. It's unwarranted here.
IDC if you think this changes nothing, your "appeal to authority" arguments don't work here on this site with the current rules. If you still disagree, make a staff CRT, or forever hold your peace, because as it stands, staff are not exactly in agreement with you, and you are not doing them any favors with this kind of pedantism.
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A story isn't a mathematical theory or a well-formulated formula, where contradiction leads to the destruction of the current formation of either. A story is a collection of events that, when specifically discussing a fictional story, is all dependent on how the author directs it. If he initially created a set of events that occur a specific way, and he decides to re-work those events in the future, it's entirely his prerogative as his work isn't dependent on logical consistency, it's dependent on what he writes into it.
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I literally never did say it gave me an excuse. What it does give me is a right to be treated with the respect you treat others with.
"Read the page"
Ironic.
Staff not being in agreement with me doesn't make me wrong, and it doesn't mean I have to make a site wide crt.
Well you're just falling under fallacious territory. Just because you made the work and published it, doesn't mean you have the authority to change it after it's published and contradict it's original material.
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Right now in my eyes you don't deserve my respect. Respect is earned, not bought, and you have done nothing to earn it from me with your history.
I. DO NOT. CARE. Make a Staff CRT or else your stuff isn't getting accepted: PERIOD.
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Klol can you chill down?
Vzearr is severly outvoted and outargued, his arguments literally boil down to "I said so". This thread passed with 4 Staffmembers agreeing and is only in grace right now. Ignore him and get this done
Vzearr is severly outvoted and outargued, his arguments literally boil down to "I said so". This thread passed with 4 Staffmembers agreeing and is only in grace right now. Ignore him and get this done
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It's definitely, not always, a fallacy. I can send you receipts of this being the case. IEP has an entire section on their Fallacies page that explains why an "Appeal to Authority" isn't always fallacious. I can also go check SEP, and they'll also probably have an excerpt on how an Appeal to Authority isn't necessarily fallacious.
The proof in this situation is that the author who created the story is telling you that your assertion is incorrect. Everyone is going to accept what the author says as being factually true when it comes to their story, obviously - it's their story. How can you make any assertions about what should be considered in a story if the author themselves is contradicting you? You can't supersede the author and his decisions.
Why is contradicting established events in your story meaningfully fallacious, where if the author themselves decide to revise those events and switch them, we must disregard these new set of events? You're just asserting that since it's logically contradictory, we shouldn't listen to the author. But you haven't even substantially explained why Logic is important to a fictional story - to the point of completely disregarding the literal person who created it.
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Said my piece, now I'll just wait for the staff I tagged.
Also IIRC it was 3 votes since my vote as a CGM doesn't count. So RN it's DDM, Tracer and Nierre.
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You can't inherently say a fallacy can sometimes not be that fallacy if it's a fallacy. That just makes no sense.
Just because it's their story doesn't make everything they say about that story cannon, I don't know how I can make this easier to understand but I'll try.
Author finishes book.
Anime adapts that book.
Author sees this and supervises things that change the original cannon of this book.
Author's book is now no longer cannon because the anime is technically cannon according to you.
You can't have two cannons, it doesn't work that way
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Again, this is not what happened with this story. To put it how you did, it would be:
Author starts book.
Author gets halfway through book.
Anime starts to adapt that book.
Author sees the anime and supervises things that change the original canon of this book, while also changing the newly written chapters of the book to be more in line with the anime.
Author's book is now no longer canon because the anime is the new canon.
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The thing you sent is too vague to be valid. He's the original author sure, but if he changes the anime from the manga then that makes two contradicting cannons.
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