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Tensei Shitara Slime Datta Ken Discussion Thread 20

There's nothing in the quotes you posted that suggests each floor has a day-night cycle or starry sky as far as I see. We need information on the first 50 floors that Velgrynd destroyed.
They were on the 83rd floor and spent multiple days and nights on said floor. Yet even after going to a different floor, the day-night cycle continued.
On the 83rd floor, an open grassland stretched out.
There were simple traps, like pitfalls, but such things posed no real obstacle.
The weather was clear, and the soldiers on the march looked bright and cheerful.
However—

On the second night, the Imperial Army suffered enormous losses. The moon shining in the sky was in the phase of waxing from first quarter toward full.. Against that moonlit backdrop floated a solitary rabbit—
the Moon Rabbit, a beast that manipulates gravity.

Getto’s attacks distinguished neither friend nor foe. Because of that, it could unleash its full strength without restraint. Though its power waxed and waned with the moon’s phases, even on a new moon Getto possessed strength enough to invert heaven and earth. With the terror of “super-gravity collapse” unleashed, the Imperial Army was thrown into chaos.

Yet this was not the end. Night would come again. And three days later, the full moon would rise—the night when Getto’s power would be at its peak.

On the 84th floor, stone-paved streets twisted and tangled together, forming a labyrinth. The faces of the Imperial soldiers walking there were pale, showing exhaustion far beyond expectations.

“G-give me water…”
“No. We can’t get in contact with the supply unit. Endure it.”
Damn it! It’s only the third day, but I need water… Without water, we can’t even eat food…”
The fact that the people said "it's only the third day" means them changing floor didn't change the day-night cycle, which then means said floor also had a day-night cycle.
Why do you have unlimited access to raws and know exactly what the raw is talking about?
For the first part, I have all the RAWs (of all volumes of LN, WN, Side Stories, Data Books like TenSura X, etc.) on my PC, or have other friends who have the RAWs I don't (like all the manga chapters). Also because I sometimes also read the game stories in JP and OCR-> Translate each line using GPT or anything else I have at that moment (Just finished reading this whole thing, lol). The only exception is Veldora's Journal.
I don't quite get what you mean by the second part tho. Isn't that supposed to be given if I'm reading the scans and know which volume/chapter they are in?
 
They were on the 83rd floor and spent multiple days and nights on said floor. Yet even after going to a different floor, the day-night cycle continued.
If some of the floors weren't extremely small and Volume 21 didn't appear to severely limit Velgrynd's destructive capacity at the solar system level, we may get a likely rating for this, but unfortunately we can't assume that right now.

In fact, if we were to create a CRT that proposed that both willpower and magicules amounts are universal energy systems, and it were accepted, it would be possible to physically scale Ramiris's 4-A+ creation to other characters (with multipliers, some characters like Milim can even go to Tier 3) . However, on a large-scale and complex verse like Tensura, made such a thing is quite troublesome.

Also, since the way the universe works requires similar explosions to occur in the Cardinal World's universe, we can up scale Quartet Skill from this explosion.
Dino, Zegion, Diablo, and the Dino quad can each scale to 1.25e54 joules (Solar System level+: 4-B+)
 
If some of the floors weren't extremely small and Volume 21 didn't appear to severely limit Velgrynd's destructive capacity at the solar system level, we may get a likely rating for this, but unfortunately we can't assume that right now.
Well, to be specific, the floors themselves aren't really important since Ramiris can extend the space to however much she wants. We see examples of that from the fact that there are stars and day-night cycles in some floors.

Plus some floors are just like that. Why would there be stars in a maze that's supposed to be just a completely closed room?
Plus that capacity of Velgrynd clearly referred to the cardinal world, where magicules exist. We already know magicules can, overtime, strengthen anything that's exposed to them to insane degrees.
That was made clear in V17:
At this point, Velgrynd, unlike Veldora, could maintain a steady cycle of magicules entirely within her own body.

She didn’t need to replenish them from the air, and they were never expelled from her body. That was a skill she’d learned as she traveled through all the diverse worlds she had seen. As a result, she wasn’t paying attention to this world’s magicule concentration, so she hadn’t picked up on that fact yet.

It was normally impossible, after all, to go back the way you’d come when traversing worlds. Even if you had an Underworld Gate handy, you’d still be limited by the size of the portal. Someone like Velgrynd, who could use her Dimensional Leap skill with no limitations, was a blatant exception to the laws of nature.

Therefore, compared to the magicule-rich environment in which Velgrynd was born, the standards for “strength” in this world were quite low. She did not have to wait long to see this for herself.
OTL V17C2
Gensei and Kondo were pretty much equal in strength—but that strength was far below what Kondo had when she’d met him. When humans in physical space crosses between worlds, most will die from the resulting exposure to concentrated magicules. On rare occasions, however, the magicules can break down and reconstruct their bodies, making these humans tougher and more resilient.
OTL V17C2
“Don’t get so full of yourself, Delia! This world exists in physical space, full of possibility. With the right number of magicules, things can change in every which way. We yohma only become complete once we obtain physical bodies. I want you to make sure you don’t forget that!”
OTL V17C2
And this affects the Laws of said world as well:
Delia, after that tirade, realized he was right. This world was inferior in terms of pure strength, but that was only because its physical laws differed from the ones they were familiar with. She admonished herself not to forget where she stood until this invasion was over.
OTL V17C2
And that also means less impact on the laws themselves due to less magicule concentration, and thus weaker magic.
Her mind was bursting with optimism. And she was right—magic in this world was more the realm of offensive sorcery and energy-sapping curses, and it was hard to cast spells that could directly rejigger the physical laws of the world. But praising Ludora for this was going overboard. The Oharu of this realm had no such powers; all of this was better chalked up to mere coincidence. To put it bluntly, the mystics had luck going against them. The moment Velgrynd had begun to play an active role, their invasion was all but doomed.
OTL V17C2
Because it was created by Veldanava using his (special) power:
As Guy explained, this planet was created through the power of Veldanava and therefore wasn’t going to be catastrophically torn apart or anything. But Milim’s power was still rising, and if left unchecked, she’d encase the whole planet in a thick layer of contaminating magicules.

…Well, if there’s still gonna be a planet at the end of the day, then great. And I guess it made sense. After all, even Carrera’s magic wasn’t the sort you should really use on the surface of a planet. We only got away with it because we were on a world that could withstand such lethal force. Otherwise, at best, some attack from her would’ve bent the axis of the planet by then.
OTL V20
The Divine Tree does the same:
Ciel’s being so vague about this, I suppose the strategy had little chance of success. Frankly, it would have been crazy to go through with it.

But if that was the case, there was no point in worrying about the “why” of it. What about the “sacred tree” Feldway set as Milim’s goal?

This is a divine tree that protects the capital of the Sorcerous Dynasty of Thalion. It is a tree so large it can hold a giant city. It also seems to play the role of stabilizing the magicules in this world, preventing natural disasters. (Ciel speaking)
OTL V20
Zarario looked behind him. There was the sacred tree, standing in this land since time immemorial. Rooted deep in the earth, it protected the planet from all kinds of natural disasters—and it was still standing strong, even after taking all of Jahil’s flames. It is the same tree that kept the past Milim/Guy battle from being any more damaging.
OTL V20
But if you looked at it another way, that was the only damage that resulted last time. This world was protected by gods who put up many obstacles to destroying it. Guy, the great Arbitrator, was the best example— feared by mankind as the strongest and most terrifying of demon lords, but still constantly protecting this world, as per his pact with Veldanava.

Several beings helped him with this role. There were the demon lords selected by Guy, including Ramiris, the other Arbitrator. There were the Heroes, their nemeses and counterparts—and now there was Masayuki, the reincarnation of the most powerful Hero there ever was. Velgrynd was with him, too.

Apart from these, there were relics like Skyspire Tower, influenced directly by the hand of these gods, which also offered the people their protection. The sacred tree was another such relic.
OTL V20
That's also why Feldway ordered Milim to destroy the divine tree first, so he could actually destroy the universe himself.
“Tch! You came sooner than I thought. But it’s too late. Milim! Use your power to shatter the sacred tree in our way!”
OTL V20
His rule over Milim was likely too unstable for him to focus on anything else. Or perhaps he wanted to prioritize the destruction of the sacred tree.
OTL V20
Feldway wanted to revive Veldanava, but he failed after losing Michael. If so, what he’ll want next is…

Zarario felt a chill run down his spine. Maybe he would want to destroy this world.

There were only two holy relics left in this world: the sacred tree and Skyspire Tower. There was also the labyrinth created by Ramiris, but that should be considered its own separate category.
Feldway himself couldn't destroy the Divine Tree so he made Milim do it:
“M-me…?” Veldora sounded terribly aggrieved by this, but he was ignored. “
So once this darkness goes away, you’re going over to the divine tree.”
“Wait, what?!” Veldora balked.
“Yes, the divine tree. Feldway probably wants Milim to destroy it.”

Feldway had failed at it once, but he hadn’t given up yet. Now that he had regained full control over Milim, he had no reason to sit idle. And that was the “thorny problem” Velgrynd had in mind—Milim and her group were on their way to their next destination.
Between destroying the gate and trying to destroy the divine tree, there was just one thing Feldway could be aiming for. He had no intention of respecting anyone else’s territory from the get-go—or really, he had no reason to. If this planet was wiped out, all territorial disputes would cease to matter
Even the characters protect the planet from barriers:
I had seen my fill on the way. The only reason this planet was still safe was because of Velgrynd offering to help. She was worried the planet would be in a state of chaos if things continued as they were, so she came all the way over for me. I supposed Velgrynd wouldn’t like it much if this world fell apart, either, so I didn’t really need to thank her that much—but then, if it did, she could just do one of her Trans-Dimensional Leaps, right?

Not that I was gonna turn down her help, but… She told me she’d left a Separate Body by Masayuki’s side, so the Velgrynd I saw contained just 70 percent of her power. Even so, it was helping me enough, and I was relying hard on it. I suppose that’s why I dared to ask Velgrynd: “Hey, not to get too greedy, but is there any way you might be able to keep that sacred tree from getting damaged?” The results were about what I figured.

“You’re as silly as ever, aren’t you? Milim isn’t even trying, but I’m working my hardest keeping a Star Barrier going, you realize. And even then, she’s still causing tons of damage. She can work directly with stellar particles, you know. And there’s no such thing in this world as a barrier that can absorb a Drago-Nova head-on.”

And yet, the Quartet Skill was SOOO strong that it would bypass ALL of that and still destroy the planet along with the solar system.
The whole point of the verse's scaling being reduced to below tier 2 just because of some statements that limit the character's AP BUT are in context to a planet that itself is harder to destroy than a whole world/universe baffles me lmao.
 
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Well, to be specific, the floors themselves aren't really important since Ramiris can extend the space to however much she wants. We see examples of that from the fact that there are stars and day-night cycles in some floors.

Plus some floors are just like that. Why would there be stars in a maze that's supposed to be just a completely closed room?
Plus that capacity of Velgrynd clearly referred to the cardinal world, where magicules exist. We already know magicules can, overtime, strengthen anything that's exposed to them to insane degrees.
That was made clear in V17:



And this affects the Laws of said world as well:

And that also means less impact on the laws themselves due to less magicule concentration, and thus weaker magic.

Because it was created by Veldanava using his (special) power:

The Divine Tree does the same:



That's also why Feldway ordered Milim to destroy the divine tree first, so he could actually destroy the universe himself.



Feldway himself couldn't destroy the Divine Tree so he made Milim do it:


Even the characters protect the planet from barriers:


And yet, the Quartet Skill was SOOO strong that it would bypass ALL of that and still destroy the planet along with the solar system.
The whole point of the verse's scaling being reduced to below tier 2 just because of some statements that limit the character's AP BUT are in context to a planet that itself is harder to destroy than a whole world/universe baffles me lmao.
Fuse isn't a powerscaler, so can't be expected to considered the huge gap between destroying stars and destroying universes, of course, but it's mostly Fuse'a self who tries to limit the characters.
Several super special moves were unleashed.
With exquisite timing, it all reached the center of the tetrahedron as to cover Dino’s technique.
It caused a catastrophic, destructive power which was the greatest ever seen since the beginning of the universe.
The catastrophic destruction filled『Absolute Barrier』, which was created to not let such power escape.
For example, there was no mention of planet or solar system in the Web Novel.
 
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Hey everyone! I just posted my newest CRT and I'd really like some feedback. Any suggestions for formatting or corrections would also be appreciated. Thanks in advance!
 
Fuse isn't a powerscaler, so can't be expected to considered the huge gap between destroying stars and destroying universes, of course, but it's mostly Fuse'a self who tries to limit the characters.

For example, there was no mention of planet or solar system in the Web Novel.
That's mostly because "Cardinal world" was never an established thing in the WN, nor was "there are things protecting the world from destruction".

So the destruction of the world was just baseline of whatever tier it is. LN, on the other hand, likes to create layers among worlds based on the strength of said world, making some harder to destroy than the other. Kind of like the layers of Silver sea from Maou Gakuin.

Plus the amount of statements that still prove that said solar system (or even planet alone) had more durability than tier 2 structures in-verse is not small either.
 
No, it's just interaction.
But spiriton which is like a proton for magicule is smaller than proton
If magicules can interact with light and sound waves, wouldn't that make them Macro-Quantum sized?
We have a verse page on the terminologies but it isn't updated. I feel I should do that tbh.
Magicule is already stated to be very small and it's nuclei is spiriton which is far smaller than photon or atleast at that size.
Fuse isn't a powerscaler, so can't be expected to considered the huge gap between destroying stars and destroying universes, of course, but it's mostly Fuse'a self who tries to limit the characters.

For example, there was no mention of planet or solar system in the Web Novel.
In a particular interview he mentioned how easy it is for top tiers to destroy the world, so he is probably doing it or arranging the power scale so it doesn't become way too easy to destroy the world
 
We have a verse page on the terminologies but it isn't updated. I feel I should do that tbh.
Magicule is already stated to be very small and it's nuclei is spiriton which is far smaller than photon or atleast at that size.
We are trying to work on it, but everyone is too lazy.
 
Possibly? we do know that he is composed of/embodies the illusion/fantasy attribute so maybe?? It could be with how spirits embody the attributes but needs a sizeable amount of context to verify it.

And on an another topic, Ramiris can make an infinite dimension using Labyrinth Prison which uses the information from Secret art of Infinity Corridor as inspiration and shifts it's spatial coordinates so they can't escape using those.





Manga Version:

What floor did Ramiris trap them on, or what floor were they on when she did?
 
If magicules can interact with light and sound waves, wouldn't that make them Macro-Quantum sized?
Not really. It's more so how Light can just as well interact with a wall or a glass that's really big as well.
Also, they were indirectly called molecules iirc. In Volume 1. The skill that allows for their control is also called Molecular Manipulation.

On that note, Spiritons would be the size of a photon since they can move at the speed of light. And as we know, with the exception of info particles, nothing else can move at SoL due to relativity. That allows Spiritons to be photons, or equivalent in size at least.

IP on the other hand is smaller than that, having an existential mass (defining whether it even exists or not) as close to zero/nothing as possible. We already know even spiritual/mental things are considered "existing" and have mass (i.e., mass of magicules, mass of spiritual power, etc.) so that means the mass here refers to existential mass, not physical mass.
 
Not really. It's more so how Light can just as well interact with a wall or a glass that's really big as well.
Also, they were indirectly called molecules iirc. In Volume 1. The skill that allows for their control is also called Molecular Manipulation.

On that note, Spiritons would be the size of a photon since they can move at the speed of light. And as we know, with the exception of info particles, nothing else can move at SoL due to relativity. That allows Spiritons to be photons, or equivalent in size at least.

IP on the other hand is smaller than that, having an existential mass (defining whether it even exists or not) as close to zero/nothing as possible. We already know even spiritual/mental things are considered "existing" and have mass (i.e., mass of magicules, mass of spiritual power, etc.) so that means the mass here refers to existential mass, not physical mass.
In volume 21, photon and spiriton are explicitly mentioned to be different, plus spiriton exist as the nucleus of magicules
 
In volume 21, photon and spiriton are explicitly mentioned to be different, plus spiriton exist as the nucleus of magicules
Not really. It was just said "Information particles are smaller than spiritual particles, smaller than even photons".
That can have many meanings.

For example, let's say David is the strongest guy in Class A. Class B's Ash is stronger than even him. That statement can be written as:
"Ash is stronger than the strongest person in class A, stronger than even David".
That statement makes perfect sense, as it adds more depth and hype to the meaning of the sentence.

Also, I said they are "equivalent" of photons in size, not that they are photons themselves. You can be equivalent to something while not being that something itself. They aren't called the "nucleus" explicitly, just that they are the building block of magicules.
 
Not really. It was just said "Information particles are smaller than spiritual particles, smaller than even photons".
That can have many meanings.

For example, let's say David is the strongest guy in Class A. Class B's Ash is stronger than even him. That statement can be written as:
"Ash is stronger than the strongest person in class A, stronger than even David".
That statement makes perfect sense, as it adds more depth and hype to the meaning of the sentence.

Also, I said they are "equivalent" of photons in size, not that they are photons themselves. You can be equivalent to something while not being that something itself. They aren't called the "nucleus" explicitly, just that they are the building block of magicules.
Type of example is that 🥀, but yeah it's not the same thing.
 
If we translate as just planet
ミリムとゼラヌス、両者の拳が空を切るだけで、大気が振動し大地が震えた。

星すらも粉々に壊してしまいそうな激しさであったが、そうならなかった理由は一つである。

ゼラヌスとミリムが、この戦場を各々の『防御結界』で保護していたからだ。

そもそもの話、ミリムが最初から参戦しなかった理由もこれである。

カレラの極大魔法“終末崩縮消滅波(アビスアナイアレーション)』による影響を見極めた上で、この戦争が大地に及ぼすであ
Considering Volume 22, the star or stars translation could be more consistent translation, but that's it for now.
 
I don't remember like that.
中空で、白と赤の[覇気][オーラ]が交差する。星系すら呑み込むであろう熱量が、その小さな質量に満ちていた。衝突するだけで大破壊が巻き起こるのだが、地上は守護されているので、氷雪が狂ったように吹き荒れるだけで済んでいる。ヴェルザードには、ギィの攻撃が通用していない。本気じゃなかったからだ。
In the void, white and red auras intersect. The small mass was filled with enough heat to swallow an entire star system. A collision would cause massive destruction, but the ground is protected, so it only results in crazy blizzards. Gii's attacks are ineffective against Verzaard. That's because he wasn't serious. - Deepl
 
There's no proof that Zelanus did it this way, but as an idea I'd say the energy required to compress the Sun by 1 centimeter is around 3.3e30~ joules (Small Planet level: Low 5-B)
I mean, I got that idea from the scans saying "can change the shape of the star" so..., Strain is the only thing that comes up to mind.

And since they're saying "it can change the shape of the star", we can assume the change is significant enough to be observed as a change in shape, not just some one centimeter reduction.
 
we can assume the change is significant enough to be observed as a change in shape
The term observable can be used in many different ways, you need proof to determine what is meant by observable.

For example, this "spliting the Earth in half" common feat is based on this requirement "The Earth either has to be split to an extent that is visible from outer space (so far away that one can see the Earth in its entirety) or it has to be known that the halves were separated by at least 203 km".

For the same reason, we also can't calculate how much energy Feldway would need to splitting a star in half.
 
The term observable can be used in many different ways, you need proof to determine what is meant by observable.

For example, this "spliting the Earth in half" common feat is based on this requirement "The Earth either has to be split to an extent that is visible from outer space (so far away that one can see the Earth in its entirety) or it has to be known that the halves were separated by at least 203 km".

For the same reason, we also can't calculate how much energy Feldway would need to splitting a star in half.
I mean, that statement was during a scene in the cardinal planet, so can't we assume that the shape change is such that it can be observed from the cardinal planet?
 
The term observable can be used in many different ways, you need proof to determine what is meant by observable.

For example, this "spliting the Earth in half" common feat is based on this requirement "The Earth either has to be split to an extent that is visible from outer space (so far away that one can see the Earth in its entirety) or it has to be known that the halves were separated by at least 203 km".

For the same reason, we also can't calculate how much energy Feldway would need to splitting a star in half.
I mean, that statement was during a scene in the cardinal planet, so can't we assume that the shape change is such that it can be observed from the cardinal planet?
 
I mean, that statement was during a scene in the cardinal planet, so can't we assume that the shape change is such that it can be observed from the cardinal planet?
Unless specified, no. And given the sun's brightness, I have no idea what changes would need to be made for someone looking at the sun from Earth to be able to tell that the sun's shape has changed.
 
@AstraphelNoctis4 @AlexSamDen I'll be posting a tensura (staff) thread in around 1 to 2 days, or at worst within this week. Just telling in advance in case any of you also has plans. If yes, then inform me before then.

It is detailed, obviously, and I'd even say it's as detailed as my WN Rimuru sandbox. So far half is finished and it's 10k words or around that, scans include(using quotes). Only deals with one specific topic, has nothing to do with tier 1 in general nor 2-A timelines.
 
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