DELTARUNE; Chapter 3 & 4 !!!SPOILER!!! Discussion Thread

[Imaginym]

Damn buddy what's with all your cope? The Knight is obviously way stronger than the Fun Gang, I think that you're really brainrotted by "Fraud Knight" memes

You may be misinterpreting; It is not that I deny the Knight being way stronger than The Delta Warriors. (& also, I do NOT think of it as a "fraud". The Knight is legitimately powerful, seemingly pragmatic, & perhaps even remarkably intelligent.)

The Knight IS way stronger. It's the "casual one shot" part I disagree with.

All of The Knight's attacks can have a single hit survived, even for Susie & Ralsei, especially with Defending, varying depending on Equipment, even WITHOUT The Shadow Mantle.
On that grounds, it isn't one-shotting.

Furthermore, The Knight isn't even that invulnerable - It yelps when taking 100 or more damage from a single hit, & its form will deform; You usually can't hear the yelp because of Rude Buster's sound effect, & the deforming is only present very briefly.

Having your form destabilize momentarily & making sounds indicative of pain are not behaviour of someone practically untouchably superior.

Add on that its attacks aren't all one-shots (As in, not all, OHKOs; Even the Tracking Swords, arguably meant as one shots, as they hit hard & one at a time, even if in succession, can have 1 hit survived.), & now consider that the only times it "one-shot" the party was when they were off-guard & likely worn out after a long, hard fight which even Susie was in disbelief about them making it through. (& some may say it's relevant they just fought Tenna, too.)


The numbers point to The Knight definitely being around 5 times stronger or more, since damage is initially reduced to a fifth & the Knight opting to end the fight after losing one fifth of its health.

& yes, The Knight is holding back to not harm Kris, but casual?

It has four phases; It escalates each of its techniques 2 times.
When it does "Your heart becomes twisted"/Rotating Slashes 3, it is spamming slashes constantly.
& this specific move is in both phase 3 & 4 to ensure that even if The Knight's damage is reduced fast enough, as sometimes, there are ways to skip turns of a boss, there is still guaranteed to be a turn where it happens. If we're to take the battle design as author intent, that's saying The Knight is guaranteed to do that if The Delta Warriors put up enough of a fight.

& if they survive that, it bothers to charge up; If its casual power was enough, why would it need to charge its attack? Just smack them harder, because it can "casually one-shot" them, right?

Apologies if I've said some stuff you're disinterested in discussion of, but that's my stance.
The Knight is definitely far stronger. But it is not a "casual one-shot". It can take them out in a few easy hits, or take them out after The Delta Warriors are worn out & off-guard but it is not a casual one-shot, I'd say. Casual few shot, so to speak, though? Definitely.
& given its reaction to Kris hitting it when not holding back & Susie's Rude Buster, they are capable of harming it in a way the Knight neither intends nor likes; It normally doesn't react to attacks, unless it takes 100 or more damage.

(To say nothing of its avoidant behaviour in Chapter 4.)

 

[Zyurtunder13]

You may be misinterpreting; It is not that I deny the Knight being way stronger than The Delta Warriors. (& also, I do NOT think of it as a "fraud". The Knight is legitimately powerful, seemingly pragmatic, & perhaps even remarkably intelligent.)

The Knight IS way stronger. It's the "casual one shot" part I disagree with.

All of The Knight's attacks can have a single hit survived, even for Susie & Ralsei, especially with Defending, varying depending on Equipment, even WITHOUT The Shadow Mantle.
On that grounds, it isn't one-shotting.

Furthermore, The Knight isn't even that invulnerable - It yelps when taking 100 or more damage from a single hit, & its form will deform; You usually can't hear the yelp because of Rude Buster's sound effect, & the deforming is only present very briefly.

Having your form destabilize momentarily & making sounds indicative of pain are not behaviour of someone practically untouchably superior.

Add on that its attacks aren't all one-shots (As in, not all, OHKOs; Even the Tracking Swords, arguably meant as one shots, as they hit hard & one at a time, even if in succession, can have 1 hit survived.), & now consider that the only times it "one-shot" the party was when they were off-guard & likely worn out after a long, hard fight even Susie was in disbelief about them making it through. (& some may say it's relevant they just fought Tenna, too.)


The numbers point to The Knight definitely being around 5 times stronger or more, since damage is initially reduced to a fifth & the Knight opting to end the fight after losing one fifth of its health.

& yes, The Knight is holding back to not harm Kris, but casual?

It has four phases; It escalates each of its techniques 2 times.
When it does "Your heart becomes twisted", it is spamming slashes constantly.

& if they survive that, it bothers to charge up; If its casual power was enough, why would it need to charge its attack? Just smack them harder, because it can "casually one-shot" them, right?

Apologies if I've said some stuff you're disinterested in discussion, but that's my stance.
The Knight is definitely far stronger. But it is not a "casual one-shot". It can take them out in a few easy hits, or take them out after The Delta Warriors are worn out & off-guard but it is not a casual one-shot, I'd say. Casual few shot, so to speak, though? Definitely.
& given its reaction to Kris hitting it when not holding back & Susie's Rude Buster, they are capable of harming it in a way the Knight neither intends nor likes; It normally doesn't react to attacks, unless it takes 100 or more damage.

(To say nothing of its avoidant behaviour in Chapter 4.)

All that useless yap that literally adds nothing and doesn't even work as an argument

 

[Comiphorous]

All that useless yap that literally adds nothing and doesn't even work as an argument

The can't read allegations on deltarune fans will never go away.

 

[Zyurtunder13]

The can't read allegations on deltarune fans will never go away.

I read it all, I just don't care about that guy's "argument"

 

[Comiphorous]

I read it all, I just don't care about that guy's "argument"

your entire argument relies on a part of the game where they aren't even one shot to say that the knight is a casual one-shot over them. I think i'd take their argument over your "idc"

 

[Zyurtunder13]

your entire argument relies on a part of the game where they aren't even one shot to say that the knight is a casual one-shot over them. I think i'd take their argument over your "idc"

When did I ever say that the Knight one-shots them? Don't put words in my mouth that I never said, I just said that the Knight is objectively way above the main cast

 

[Comiphorous]

When did I ever say that the Knight one-shots them? Don't put words in my mouth that I never said, I just said that the Knight is objectively way above the main cast

The knight one-shotting them is literally the entire argument. Why are you defending that point if you don’t even agree with it?

 

[Zyurtunder13]

The knight one-shotting them is literally the entire argument. Why are you defending that point if you don’t even agree with it?

Because I thought that it was funny, but I see that I was just being dumb

 

[Edutyn]

The Justice is made of Sound

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There are probably several mistakes, but I'm too tired to correct them now. Also this thing made me realize I need to recalc Tenna size and mass

Also I updated this

 

[Imaginym]

The Justice is made of Sound

vsbattles.fandom.com

There are probably several mistakes, but I'm too tired to correct them now. Also this thing made me realize I need to recalc Tenna size and mass

Also I updated this

Are we certain it's made of wood?

• [Ralsei] One of the statues in his shape from his study...
• [Ralsei closes his eyes]
• [Ralsei] It must have begun moving when you made this Dark World.

If Ralsei's words are taken as fact....

I can't remember if the old man's study is accessible in the Third Sanctuary, nor can I find footage of it being visited in the Third Sanctuary. Although, the 2nd Sanctuary is visited, but that's a DW with a different creator & intent shaping it.

Interestingly, the area where Hammer of Justice also features such statues, seemingly both in the background of the battle area & in the overworld.

The Second Sanctuary has no statues in the Study, but again, different DW & also no statues at all & kind of messy.

But if the Study is accessible in the Third Sanctuary with 1 or more statues missing, that'd support using the statue studies for the basis.
Maybe Ralsei meant a Second Sanctuary Study statue started moving? After all, that could be a possibility in that Dark World.
The first Dark Sanctuary's statues look much bigger than ???/Sound of Justice seems to be, which, IIRC, seems to be of similar size to Kris & Susie.

Also, I'm skeptical that the statues are made of wood, but I guess it could be possible?

Is anyone able & willing to verify how many statues are in the Third Sanctuary's study, please?

 

[Qurbonboev]

Is anyone able & willing to verify how many statues are in the Third Sanctuary's study, please?

Once you entered 3rd Sanctuary, you can immediately go to Study, and clearly see that (at least) 1 statue is missing. Timestamp is 4:36:20(for entering Third DW).

Additionally, after battle Ralsei says that it was one of statues brought to life. It fully seals deal to me.

 

[Imaginym]

Once you entered 3rd Sanctuary, you can immediately go to Study, and clearly see that (at least) 1 statue is missing. Timestamp is 4:36:20(for entering Third DW).

Additionally, after battle Ralsei says that it was one of statues brought to life. It fully seals deal to me.

The only concern that came to my mind that I thought to bring it up now, is there may be dialogue or something about it being ambiguous if it's the "same" world....

After all, the first Dark Sanctuary is originally entered from the church's hallway's center, but for the Third Sanctuary, they enter via the darkness past the church's unlocked doorway. (Though their entry point being different could support the notion that it is the same DW, just entered from a different point in The Light World.)
IIRC, something about the 2 DFs leaking into each other;
The Save Point, perhaps strangely calls it the Dark Sanctuary in the Sturdy after entering from past the doors, but later in it, another Save Point calls it the 3rd Sanctuary. Are they separate? Connected parts of 1 greater DW given the "leaking" & presumable mixing despite them not all co-existing at once & slightly separate locations?

& what's deciding how they're named? The first Dark Sanctuary The Delta Warriors could be considered the first, but it isn't named as such, & in fact, all but the 2nd Sanctuary (Made by Susie.) are made by The Knight; We don't know if the "first" Dark Sanctuary was made first, or if the "Third" Sanctuary that's accessed from past the church's locked doors was made first?
The weird thing about that is if you thusly assume they're named based on the order The Delta Warriors enter, with the unnumbered Dark Sanctuary "first", Susie's DW, the "2nd Sanctuary" second, & the "3rd Sanctuary" third, then why is the Study still listed as in the unnumbered/first Dark Sanctuary in Save Points when accessed via the supposed "3rd Sanctuary" that it's apparently inside??

& if you order them by their creation date, that's also odd, because we only know Susie made her DW after the other 2 were already existing, & of those 2 The Knight made, we don't know which came first.



....Nonetheless, Ralsei's dialogue does indicate it's 1 of the statues having moved about, so I'd support using his dialogue to indicate it was a moving statue from the Study.
(I do wonder if the size didn't change, but I'm neutral on if the size or didn't change. Although I'm still incredulous that the material is apparently wood rather than like, stone, brass or even bronze.)
The only way I can imagine the ostensible connection of the DWs impeding this notion is the argument that Susie's DW, the "2nd Sanctuary" leaked into the "3rd Sanctuary" while they were exploring it, & either her perceiving what she thought was the old man moving about or learning a statue had been moving about caused (Perhaps retroactively.) 1 of the statues to have moved from the Study.

Sorry for any bother with all my verbosity, all. Just hope this is helpful &/or appreciable, & not unpleasant.

 

[Qurbonboev]

The Justice is made of Sound

vsbattles.fandom.com

There are probably several mistakes, but I'm too tired to correct them now. Also this thing made me realize I need to recalc Tenna size and mass

Also I updated this

Excellent feat, both of them. But it can further improved, and fight itself can be used to make another 2(if not 3) very good feats. First of all, HoldBreath Act(in Knight fight one) allows us to increase Soul speed by 25%(from 4 to 5). I think we should increase all Fun Gang members speed feats(from chapter 3 onward) by this amount(same as we do in Undertale with sea tea). So low and high end would increase from 8000m/s and 9600m/s to 10000m/s and 12000m/s.

In this fight Sound of Justice tries to strike Susie one more times afterwards. Susie dodges it once again, loses balance and became defenseless against second attack. She is saved by Kris, that tanks second attack with their shield(could be argued as 8-A durability feat, since shield nullifies only third of the damage, not all of it), and overpowers Sound of Justice, sending it flying at speeds, roughly equal to speed of sound waves on the ground. As AP feat, assuming 5000/6000 m/s for speed of sound in church floor, you get around 11/16 tonnes of TNT for this feat(8-B feat). And as lifting strength feat it should comfortably be class M feat(I naively calculated around 10^7 Newtons). This whole fight is goldmine of feats.
P.S. If someone is making Gerson profile, their definitely should look into Sound of Justice feats, since game is very clear that Gerson is stronger and faster than Sound.

 

[Edutyn]

Kris Protects Susie

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Also

Tenna's Size

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Golden Tenna KE

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[Edutyn]

I was bored so I did this.

Every Feat from ch3 & ch4

AP:

Tenna GBE: 376.12776 Kilojoules (Wall Level) - Need Evaluation
Lanino heats things up: 0.00391 Tons of TNT per second (9-B+)
Shadowguys bullets KE: 0.00122144028017378095 Tons of TNT to 0.00400845029720960783 Tons of TNT (Wall Level) - Need Evaluation
Elnina cools things down: 0,005581767 Tons per/s (9-B+) - Need Evaluation
Gerson throws is hammer: 0,013 Tons (Small Building Level+)
Golden Tenna KE: 0,318222328 Tons (Building Level) - Need Evaluation
The watercooler shows no mercy: 0,886674051 Tons of TNT (Building Level)
Elnina creates ice crystals - 1.11 Tons of TNT (Building level) - Need Evaluation
Wicabel's Bell: 1.31 Tons of TNT (8-C+, Building Level) - Need Evaluation
HolywaterCooler showns no mercy: 2,614663133 Tons of TNT (Large Building Level) - Need Evaluation
Kris Protects Susie: 55,451298567 Tons of TNT to 79,849869981 Tons of TNT (City Block Level+) - Need Evaluation
The Justice is made of Sound: 320,542731836 Tons of TNT to 461,581534417 Tons of TNT (Multi-City Block Level) - Need Evaluation
Tenna weather report: 0,021394794 Tons (Small Building Level) to 1.994990385049 Kilotons (Small Town Level) - Need Evaluation


Speed:
Susie Runs Fast: 102.012289855 m/s, or Subsonic
Tenna Speed: 222.409710925m/s (Subsonic+) - Need Evaluation
Vs Bullets: 259.35m/s or Mach 0.75 (Subsonic) - Need Evaluation
"HERE I COME, PIZZARINA!!!": 329.511717792 m/s or Mach 0.96 (Transonic)
Kris shares their Chocolate Milk with the Player : 548.546370967741935 m/s or Mach 1.6 (Supersonic)
Tenna cuts the screen: 1481.9117647m/s or Mach 4.3204424627 (Supersonic+) - Need Evaluation
Wicabel's Bell: 2401m/s or Mach 7 (Hypersonic) - Need Evaluation
Gerson Speed: 3405.59410072m/s or Mach 9.92 (Hypersonic) - Need Evaluation
Susie moves faster than sound: 800 m/s or Mach 2.33236151603 (Supersonic) to 5920m/s or Mach 17.2594752187 (Hypersonic+) - Need Evaluation
Kris Protects Susie: Mach 32.7300731613 to Mach 39.2760877936 (High Hypersonic)
The Justice is made of Sound: 26991.5735078m/s or Mach 78.6926341335 to 32389.8882m/s or Mach 94.7072754 (High Hypersonic) - Need Evaluation
Vs Lightning: 537777.777778m/s or Mach 1567.86524133 (Massively Hypersonic+) - Need Evaluation
Tenna's Lightning Attack: Mach 2092.98757097 (Massively Hypersonic+) to Mach 6954.11999386 (Massively Hypersonic+) - Need Evaluation
Smash Cut: 111200m/s or Mach 324.198250729 (Massively Hypersonic) to 88000000m/s or 0.29353640377c (Relativistic) - Need Evaluation
Shocking Laser Dodge: 43.75% SoL, which is Relativistic - Must be discussed

LS:
Shadowguys bullets KE: 1.38419372003 Tons to 4.54256488714 Tons (Class 5) - Need Evaluation
Gerson throws is hammer: 751347.908287kgf (Class K)
The Justice is made of Sound: 2085.7296732 Tons to 2502.8755997 Tons (Class M) - Need Evaluation
Kris Protects Susie: 4214.7480732547792286 Tons to 5057.6976847 (Class M) - Need Evaluation
Golden Tenna: 40696.460871 Tons (Class M) - Not Sure - Need Evaluation

Range:

Tenna TP Range: 770.857347593m (Hundreds of Meters)

Bonus:
Thrash Explosion: 0.30 Tons of TNT (Building level) - Need Evaluation?
Kris dodge missiles: 119.158690176m/s to 155.780856423 m/s (Subsonic)
Chaos, Bigger Chaos!: 1.00628884824 tons (Building level) - Need Evaluation

Updated

 

[LittleGuy99]

 

[Imaginym]

No Lightner ever turned into a weapon....

But then again, it's also an unused move. Is it unused because lore, or because too easy?

 

[LittleGuy99]

No Lightner ever turned into a weapon....

But then again, it's also an unused move. Is it unused because lore, or because too easy?

I don't think Toby didn't think about the general lore when creating that attack
It is probably Unused because it is very complicated, it may be used for another battle with the Knight

 

[Qurbonboev]

No Lightner ever turned into a weapon....

But then again, it's also an unused move. Is it unused because lore, or because too easy?

Knight already showed impressive shapeshifting abilitiie. Whatever it is, it's not just normal Lightner

 

[Imaginym]

Knight already showed impressive shapeshifting abilitiie. Whatever it is, it's not just normal Lightner

Another curiousitiy is Seam's line in Castle Town in Chapter 1 or 2 or so, warning the party not to be around when the sun is down.

AFAIK, the Dark World(s) haven't had a sun so far (Won't THAT be fun for any plants in the flower king DW?), & not only is it dubious if the Cyber World's moon (Oh! That's a baseball!) is real, there's also the flowery language of a prophecy.

"A WORLD BASKED IN PUREST LIGHT.
BENEATH IT, GREW ETERNAL NIGHT."

Question of what it means for darkness/Dark Worlds to be "growing" "beneath" the Light Worlds aside, if the Dark Worlds have "eternal night", unless that the night is growing means there's still some "incomplete", non-night parts, there can't be day.
There can't be a time when the sun is up in the Dark World, & it kind of seems like the prophecy image is showing that with it splitting two halves, & the sun representing the LW in this paralleling of opposites.

So when Seam said:

• [Talking again, after recruiting at least 9 Darkners in Chapter 2]
  • Those young men have made an interesting shop.
  • They're leaving the bagel business, so I have the rest of their remaining stock.
  • ...By the by, it's growing late, isn't it?
  • You should hurry home once you finish your business here.
  • You don't want to get caught when the sun goes down...
• [Talking again, if fewer than 9 Darkners were recruited]
  • Those three young musical men are thinking about setting up a shop here.
  • I'm sure you'd appreciate having an option other than me, ha ha.
  • ... By the by, it's growing late, isn't it?
  • You should hurry home once you finish your business here.
  • You don't want to get caught when the sun goes down...

He can't have meant when the sun goes down in the Dark World. Unless Seam somehow knew of &/or was referring to Lanino.

Chapter 3 happens at night. After the sun is down, definitely.
In Chapter 4, Kris & Susie go to church, might spend some time in Hometown, go to Noelle's spend some time there, & it's still day when they reach the church's Dark World & they see the Knight shortly after. But they leave when it's night, so apparently they took a while?

Based on the tree colours, & the fact that Jackenstein says he's only taken out for the festivals, & he's a Jack-o-Lantern headed thing, that suggests the festival is like Halloween, & since it's evidently fall, it seems likely that the festival is on the same date as October 31st!
If the festival is tomorrow, it's October.

So where's Hometown based on? Sure it's fictional, but is it based on anywhere? Somewhere in the USA?
In theory, sunset could arrive quite quickly during fall on October 30th.



So was Seam warning them not to "get caught" when the sun goes down referring to the Light World's sun, because that's when The Roaring Knight would be active??

 

[Qurbonboev]

There are probably several mistakes, but I'm too tired to correct them now

Overall feat is good. But your assumption of statue being wooden is definitely wrong. It looks more like type of ceramics to me. I will elaborate on it in comments to your post.

So was Seam warning them not to "get caught" when the sun goes down referrign to the Light World's sun, because that's when The Roaring Knight would be active??

Probably most promising candidate so far. But I would probably bet on Friend, who is strongly implied to already wreck life of another group of children.

 

[Edutyn]

Power of Spamton

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Tenna's Weather Report

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[Alexander]

ANTENNA

 

[CanineAnnoyer]

Another curiousitiy is Seam's line in Castle Town in Chapter 1 or 2 or so, warning the party not to be around when the sun is down.

AFAIK, the Dark World(s) haven't had a sun so far (Won't THAT be fun for any plants in the flower king DW?), & not only is it dubious if the Cyber World's moon (Oh! That's a baseball!) is real, there's also the flowery language of a prophecy.

"A WORLD BASKED IN PUREST LIGHT.
BENEATH IT, GREW ETERNAL NIGHT."

Question of what it means for darkness/Dark Worlds to be "growing" "beneath" the Light Worlds aside, if the Dark Worlds have "eternal night", unless that the night is growing means there's still some "incomplete", non-night parts, there can't be day.
There can't be a time when the sun is up in the Dark World, & it kind of seems like the prophecy image is showing that with it splitting two halves, & the sun representing the LW in this paralleling of opposites.

So when Seam said:

• [Talking again, after recruiting at least 9 Darkners in Chapter 2]
  • Those young men have made an interesting shop.
  • They're leaving the bagel business, so I have the rest of their remaining stock.
  • ...By the by, it's growing late, isn't it?
  • You should hurry home once you finish your business here.
  • You don't want to get caught when the sun goes down...
• [Talking again, if fewer than 9 Darkners were recruited]
  • Those three young musical men are thinking about setting up a shop here.
  • I'm sure you'd appreciate having an option other than me, ha ha.
  • ... By the by, it's growing late, isn't it?
  • You should hurry home once you finish your business here.
  • You don't want to get caught when the sun goes down...

He can't have meant when the sun goes down in the Dark World. Unless Seam somehow knew of &/or was referring to Lanino.

Chapter 3 happens at night. After the sun is down, definitely.
In Chapter 4, Kris & Susie go to church, might spend some time in Hometown, go to Noelle's spend some time there, & it's still day when they reach the church's Dark World & they see the Knight shortly after. But they leave when it's night, so apparently they took a while?

Based on the tree colours, & the fact that Jackenstein says he's only taken out for the festivals, & he's a Jack-o-Lantern headed thing, that suggests the festival is like Halloween, & since it's evidently fall, it seems likely that the festival is on the same date as October 31st!
If the festival is tomorrow, it's October.

So where's Hometown based on? Sure it's fictional, but is it based on anywhere? Somewhere in the USA?
In theory, sunset could arrive quite quickly during fall on October 30th.



So was Seam warning them not to "get caught" when the sun goes down referring to the Light World's sun, because that's when The Roaring Knight would be active??

They used currency with the $ symbol in the Light World, so it's a good chance its America. They also call water fountains "bubblers", which they only do in some parts of New England and Wisconsin

 

[Imaginym]

They used currency with the $ symbol in the Light World, so it's a good chance its America. They also call water fountains "bubblers", which they only do in some parts of New England and Wisconsin

Sunrise and sunset times in New England, October 2025

Calculations of sunrise and sunset in New England – USA for October 2025. Generic astronomy calculator to calculate times for sunrise, sunset, moonrise, moonset for many cities, with daylight saving time and time zones taken in account.

www.timeanddate.com

If I'm reading their chart (Scroll down, right.), it says on October 30th in New England, USA, sunset will begin at about 5:36 PM.

That said, it varies by your part of the globe, but depending on that & season, sunset can last 20 to 35 minutes. Half an hour is plausible if it's on the northern part of the globe like North America would be.

BTW, did you know there's 3 kinds of twilight?? 3 periods, even. Civil, nautical & astronomical.

Twilight - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Why they're named that is beyond me because all that separates them is which six degree range the sun's relative position below the horizon corresponds to!
Civil: 0 to 6 degrees below horizon.
Wikipedia says: "Under clear weather conditions, civil twilight approximates the limit at which solar illumination suffices for the human eye to clearly distinguish terrestrial objects."
Nautical: 6 to 12 degrees below horizon.
Wikipedia says: "At nautical dawn and nautical dusk, the human eye finds it difficult, if not impossible, to discern traces of illumination near the sunset or sunrise point of the horizon (first light after nautical dawn but before civil dawn and nightfall after civil dusk but before nautical dusk)."
Astronomical: 12 to 18 degrees below horizon.
Wikipedia says: "Under good atmospheric conditions with the absence of other illumination, during nautical twilight, the human eye may distinguish general outlines of ground objects but cannot participate in detailed outdoor operations.[11]"

WHO NAMED THEM THESE THINGS & WHY?! ARGH.

Supposedly, civil twilight can last 20 to 30 minutes, & seems to be used interchangeably with sunset.

If it's somewhere in New England (An area for a group consisting of 6 USA states, apparently, but Time & Date lets you check their info under that designation anyway.), sunset will begin on October 30th on 5:36 PM, or in Bosto, NY (Also a part of "New England".), it'll begin at 5:39 PM EST.

Presumably twilight lasts similar lengths for both.
With the 3 kinds of twilight, "night" will begin around 7:15 PM.

If I'm understanding this right -It's unfamiliar to me- then sunset &/or civil twilight is like, 5:50 PM to 6:10 PM in Wisconsin's capital of the USA?

Anyway, TL;DR - There'd be like, an hour & 40 minutes between sunset beginning & it getting dark out, & it'd probably start at like, 5:30 to 6:50 or so.


Considering chapter 4 has them wake up, go to breakfast -Tragically, it doesn't seem like either Kris or Susie got to eat much.- then church, Kris has enough time to listen that they can fall asleep & several can leave, & Toriel offers to Kris & Susie to go to the diner, with the intent of returning to church later for choir practice, church probably ended around lunch time. Would line up with there still being several hours of daylight at that point.
Kris & Susie have time to visit the diner, go to the study group, spend, IDK, an hour or 2, go into the Dark World, spend some hours there, & when they exit a few hours later, the sun has set. (Plus, rain clouds may've darkened it.)
In theory, if they left Noelle's at like, 3 or 3:30 or 4 PM. 4 to 4 & a half hours in the Dark World would be long enough for it to become night outside.

So yeah, IDK if that's helpful or interesting or appreciable, but I hope it is.
Hopefully people aren't bothered & are willing to let me know their thoughts about this.

 

[Edutyn]

Updated

The Justice is made of Sound

vsbattles.fandom.com

 

[Imaginym]

Updated

The Justice is made of Sound

vsbattles.fandom.com

I'm not 100% certain a statue from the study would be the same size as Gerson, & our assuming it's the same size. Well, I guess we see how it compares to Kris & Susie.
& Ralsei does suggest it gets up & moves.

It's odd, because while it being the same material as the study statues seems plausible, it seems like it's a smaller size than them.
But I'm assuming the calc is reasonable & acceptable despite that, FWIW, given that I'm not a Calculation Group Member.

 

[Qurbonboev]

I'm not 100% certain a statue from the study would be the same size as Gerson

I have not done exact measurements, but Sound of Justice definitely looks same size as Gerson, and much smaller than statues. I would assume that this is effect of 2nd Sanctuary, and consider it same size as Gerson for featcalcing.

Updated

Good additions. Only thing left to do is correcting mistake(double counting hammer mass for ceramic end specifically) and using it for Kris protect Susie feat

 

[Imaginym]

I have not done exact measurements, but Sound of Justice definitely looks same size as Gerson, and much smaller than statues. I would assume that this is effect of 2nd Sanctuary, and consider it same size as Gerson for featcalcing.


Good additions. Only thing left to do is correcting mistake(double counting hammer mass for ceramic end specifically) and using it for Kris protect Susie feat

Fair enough. I think that's reasonable & it should be acceptable as it is nonetheless, FWIW.

 

[Eden_Warlock99]

Updated

The Justice is made of Sound

vsbattles.fandom.com

Looks like you're supposed to calc the Hammer's volume off its radius rather than its diameter.
There's also concerns if the sound's really spreading through the floor rather than the air.

 

[Qurbonboev]

Looks like you're supposed to calc the Hammer's volume off its radius rather than its diameter.

I checked this calc again, and it's strange. It's claims that uses value of 5.63368483473m^3 from this feat, but in it calculated hammer+handle volume is 10 times smaller. It should be fixed

 

[Eden_Warlock99]

I checked this calc again, and it's strange. It's claims that uses value of 5.63368483473m^3 from this feat, but in it calculated hammer+handle volume is 10 times smaller. It should be fixed

Ye, that volume was changed recently, "The Justice is made of Sound" calc just hasn't been updated yet.

 

[Qurbonboev]

Looks like you're supposed to calc the Hammer's volume off its radius rather than its diameter.
There's also concerns if the sound's really spreading through the floor rather than the air.

Interesting thing about fight with Sound of Justice I noticed is that there are two types of sound waves in this fight. First one is thinner and slower, second one os faster and thicker. Second type of waves appears right after Sound of Justice makes jump to Susie, and they quickly outpace first type of sound waves. I have following interpretation of this: first type of sound waves are waves in the air, and second ones are ground waves. Another argument for this is that after exposing true identity of Sound of Justice, it laughs(and produces slow waves, that have apparent origin in its head), and Ralsei almost immediately attacks it(and waves from this are much more faster, and have origin in its body).
There is another speculative argument for this interpretation, but I would need advice of someone with more solid understanding of vibration propagation in different states of matter to advance it. Do you per chance qualifies, or knows someone who can help?

 

[Qurbonboev]

Looks like you're supposed to calc the Hammer's volume off its radius rather than its diameter.
There's also concerns if the sound's really spreading through the floor rather than the air.

Btw, what do you(and everyone else) think about statue composition(since topic is Statue anyways). There is no direct mentions of its material in-game. But I personally leans heavily towards ceramic materials, due to fracture pattern and shape of fragments

 

[Eden_Warlock99]

Btw, what do you(and everyone else) think about statue composition(since topic is Statue anyways). There is no direct mentions of its material in-game. But I personally leans heavily towards ceramic materials, due to fracture pattern and shape of fragments

Always thought it was some type of stone, but I ain't really knowledgeable about this stuff, in the slightest.

 

[Lilybitdun]

Noticed something weird
Currently King has listed in his AP justifications "Much stronger than Darkners like Rudinn, to the point that he can one-shot them." With Rudinn's durability scaling to the Delta Warriors
Shouldn't this make him At least Building level and not just Building level?

 

[Eden_Warlock99]

Noticed something weird
Currently King has listed in his AP justifications "Much stronger than Darkners like Rudinn, to the point that he can one-shot them." With Rudinn's durability scaling to the Delta Warriors
Shouldn't this make him At least Building level and not just Building level?

The 8-C rating originates from Elnina, who's honestly probably stronger than King given how she has the highest stats in CH3 and all that.
Also legit nothing in the link even indicates that King can one-shot them, just that he's going to fold them, which is like, duh

 

[Lilybitdun]

The 8-C rating originates from Elnina, who's honestly probably stronger than King given how she has the highest stats in CH3 and all that.
Also legit nothing in the link even indicates that King can one-shot them, just that he's going to fold them, which is like, duh

saying he could one-shot them should prob be removed then lol

 

[Comiphorous]

The 8-C rating originates from Elnina, who's honestly probably stronger than King given how she has the highest stats in CH3 and all that.

Stat scaling for Deltarune is so much more convoluted than it was for undertale because what do you mean Rudinn technically scales to the titan because without it's defense it has 0 DEF

Check stats are such nothingburgers bro i hate them with a passion LMAOOOOO

 

[Imaginym]

Stat scaling for Deltarune is so much more convoluted than it was for undertale because what do you mean Rudinn technically scales to the titan because without it's defense it has 0 DEF

That should NOT apply.

We have no canonical evidence the Knight has 0 DEF, because to see the Knight has 0 DEF, you have to go into the files directly; Normally, seeing stats is done via CHECK, but....

• [Check]
  • Kris analyzed the enemy!
  • But Kris couldn't learn anything.
• [Check, subsequent uses]
  • Kris points into the distance.
  • Nothing happened.

Given we have no info on The Knight's ATK nor DEF that the audience is meant to have access to, we should not treat it as having 0 DEF, because we specifically aren't given info on what its DEF is.

Check stats are such nothingburgers bro i hate them with a passion LMAOOOOO

Also, yes, its actual in-game DEF is 0, but besides that we, the audience, aren't given access to that info, in-game stats often differ from CHECK Stats.
For example, Rudinn:

For example:

Ponman

Ponman (plural Ponmen) is a Darkner enemy in Card Kingdom that appears at the Great Board. They are based on pawns from chess. They resemble the Dark Ponman hazards that appear in Forest and Card Castle.

deltarune.wiki

DF​

• 1 (Actual)
• 0 (Check)
• 5 (Recruit)

The Actual DEF you have to go into the games to find can differ from the stats shown in CHECK with many enemies.

Many Chapter 1 enemies are listed with 5 DEF in the Recruit info for some reason, but Recruit also feels BARELY more lore-relevant, since it gives not only a description & stats listing like CHECK does, but it also gives Element, Level & Likes & Dislikes.

So we have that info from RECRUIT we can consider for many.


Personally, while I believe The Knight is very strong & potentially quite intelligent, my stance is The Knight is more or less 5 times superior to The Delta Warriors, but can not casually one-shot them.
Reasons include:
1. When The Knight takes over 100 damage in a single hit, it will yelp & its form will destabilize, neither of which it does when taking less than 100 damage. This is normally not audible when Rude Buster hits it, but it can be heard otherwise, such as from Kris, who hits harder the more party members are down, indicating Kris can harm The Knight when not holding back, & so can Rude Buster.
2. Even against Susie & Ralsei (Ralsei may have to DEFEND.), none of The Knight's attacks can OHKO them in a single hit. Tracking Swords, despite being meant as very hard hitting moves, can have 1 hit survived by Susie for example, without her even Defending; It takes multiple hits to DOWN them, so it's not a "casual one-shot".
3. SWOON behaves more like a status condition. Besides negative HP setting not aligning to damage dealt to go DOWN in general throughout Deltarune, which puts into question that it does 999 damage only when it DOWNs them yet doesn't when it hits them while they're UP, SWOON also prevents their passive regeneration.
4. Rotating Slashes 3/"Your heart becomes twisted" is made to be unavoidable by being in both Phase 3 & Phase 4 in case the party lowers its HP very fast, & featurs the Knight spamming slashes in its animation.
5. If The Knight could casually one-shot them, why would it bother to spend a turn charging up an attack as it does?
6. The ending of the fight suggests it knocked them out in the cutscene because The Light Warriors' guards were down. Consider this dialogue when The Knight is 1 hit from defeat (& it wasn't no hit.):

• The enemy suddenly let down its guard! [After using its final attack]

After the fight, it SWOONS Susie while she's busy taunting & laughing & then Ralsei when he's in shock looking at what was just done to Susie. Ergo, taken down when the enemy let down its guard. The Knight's ending dialogue establishes that when someone's guard is let down, that's an opportunity to DOWN them, & that's how it takes down Susie & Ralsei.
Not to mention, they just finished a fight that was so arduous Susie couldn't believe they won. (& if The Knight was faking having its guard down, or faking its destabilization, that could support this being a way to get their guards down.)

7. Although The Knight's HP is displayed as ??? & we aren't shown its ATK & DEF, we are shown its health bar; We can infer from how much can be depleted how comparable The Delta Warriors are. (In game, it's about 20% of its max HP, which aligns with the damage reduction starting at damage reduced to 20%, with 1% of damage doable being regained per turn.)

8. As soon as a substitute for Toriel (Undyne) shows up, The Knight takes that & leaves.

9. The Knight spends most of Chapter 4 attacking while avoiding direct confrontation. Breaking stairs Susie could use to approach it, attacking them while they're climbing, attacking them while they can't see it in pitch darkness, summoning a Titan to fight them.

Sorry if anyone minds the long post.

TL;DR - The Knight having 0 DEF isn't something the audience is shown, our standards say we should not use that, I advocate for scaling it as about 5x superior to The Delta Warriors because of its visible Health Bar depletion & initial 20% Damage Reduction, also The Knight cannot "casually one-shot" The Delta Warriors even though it is very strong & unironically, truly & genuinely is not a fraud.